Angel and Demon. where the human part came from

[dreadnought_dante]

not sure there is thread about this.
but if anyone has the answer tell me.
somewhere i read capcom told NT to make dante special like a secrete weapon to destroy the demons. but thats all i can get. so how he ended up human?

 

[Exejpgwmv]

He isn't human.
Not even partly so.

He's shown to be a hybrid of angels and demons.

 

[dreadnought_dante]

looks like one. and he dosent transform any former self.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

looks like one. and he dosent transform any former self.

Yeah

But I just like to assume his parents put some sort of magical disguise(Similar to a "glamour" from The Wolf Among Us.) on him so that he can blend into human society.

 

[TerrorA]

It could be a psychological component to his physiological state. He and Vergil "feel" human, so they look it. Notice Vergil became more demonic looking when he threw away his "humanity"

 

[Demi-fiend]

It also works sort of the same way with humans, Voldemort, and Wander from SotC.

If you perform more inhuman acts, you act (and appear) "less human" and "more demonic". If you perform more compassionate ones, you become more "Angelic".

If you just want to mind your own business become as strong as you can on your own -- you become "human" (evolved) -- and thus more... "independent" (example: Suvivorman).

That's just my theory, though.

"You are "Dante" (the "true heir" of Sparda) -- nothing more, nothing less."

[In other words: "human", in the most abstract sense.]

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Dante, Sparda, along with any other demons, and Eva look human because they are in human vessels. For all intents and purposes their bodies are human, but they are supernatural at their core. Demons and angels are fairly powerless on Earth, hence why the demons run things from Limbo (and would also explain why Eva may not have been able to fight back when Mundus arrived at Paradise). That's why demons pull enemies into Limbo as well - they are at their strongest there. The Nephilim, however, were inherently different because their strength carried over to any plane, they can keep their supernatural strength wherever they are.

But, why are Dante and Vergil human-looking? Because they were birthed by biologically human people

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Dante, Sparda, along with any other demons, and Eva look human because they are in human vessels. For all intents and purposes their bodies are human, but they are supernatural at their core. Demons and angels are fairly powerless on Earth, hence why the demons run things from Limbo (and would also explain why Eva may not have been able to fight back when Mundus arrived at Paradise). That's why demons pull enemies into Limbo as well - they are at their strongest there. The Nephilim, however, were inherently different because their strength carried over to any plane, they can keep their supernatural strength wherever they are.

But, why are Dante and Vergil human-looking? Because they were birthed by biologically human people

Wouldn't demons be at their strongest in hell?

 

[Demi-fiend]

Dante, Sparda, along with any other demons, and Eva look human because they are in human vessels.

I think you should mention the power balance (hybrids aren't as strong as pure beings, but are able to travel to any realm in compensation for that) just for the sake of clarity but ok.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Zer0: A Hybrid would have a mixture of varied power and ability. Therefore depending on how they advanced that, they could be stronger than any pure being because they have a blend of qualities those beings would not possess.

 

[Demi-fiend]

@Zer0: A Hybrid would have a mixture of varied power and ability. Therefore depending on how they advanced that, they could be stronger than any pure being because they have a blend of qualities those beings would not possess.

Then there would be no tradeoff. In my opinion, there should be one, otherwise there'd be no stopping either Dante or Vergil.

Also, both Dante and Vergil weren't as strong as Mundus -- they had to team up to take him down.

And when I said, "not as strong", I didn't mean "unable to take them down".

Think about it: Angel and demon weapons, able to travel to forbidden dimensions, and stronger as well?? No, we all saw that while they weren't as physically strong as the demons who controlled Limbo, they were still able to out-think them in some manner.

And Dante didn't even know who to go after without Vergil's guidance and Kat opening dimensional doors for him -- he's able to travel to Limbo, but had no idea how to get there.

Also, even D0NN1E (director of Vergil's Downfall) agreed with me that there should be a tradeoff; Blade has his human aging and rampant bloodlust, Dante has aging and needing Trish to seal Mundus (whereas Sparda did it on his own) and he needed Vergil to defeat Arkham (who was, for the sake of argument, a "temporary" pure demon), Alucard (SotN) is weak against holy weapons and isn't as strong as his father, Dracula, either.

Even Soma said this to Julius Belmont (a man who was pure (supernatural) human, btw), a man who tried to annihilate Soma when he found out about Soma's true "identity":

"I won't kill you. I can tell you were holding back when you fought me (to the death) just now.

... A strength of a [true] vampire hunter -- no the strength of a Belmont is greater than this."

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So you see, if there's no tradeoff, then basically you're just Goliath Hulk. Able to defeat just about anything, and thus are somewhat less (no, much less imo) interesting in terms of character as a result.

But if you want to think that Dante has nothing but power with no weaknesses whatsoever, that's fine.

But not even DMC2 Dante could escape from hell, he had no choice but to dive deeper into it in order to find another way out or fight for eternity -- rumor has it that the motorcycle at the end of DMC2 was rumored to be Trish, and not Dante, there to give Lucia the bad news.

It ended on that note so as not to depress the player any more than they already had for playing that game.

I just won't be agreeing with that particular philosophy because I think its really boring.

 

[dreadnought_dante]

but none of the answer makes sense why dante looks human. if he ONLY looks like human thats fine but he should transform into his former self when he DT.

 

[Demi-fiend]

but none of the answer makes sense why dante looks human. if he ONLY looks like human thats fine but he should transform into his former self when he DT.

He'll keep changing. The thing is, he'll most likely have an all new dt form in the future (if they ever make a sequel).

Yes, he only looks human, but that doesn't mean that there isn't some sort of "human" tradeoff at stake here. The human form is only a "beginner stage" of his eventual metamorphosis -- Vergil couldn't change his hair color, so instead of dying it, he wore a hat.

Dante will most likely tell everyone that's he's an Angel/demon hybrid because now everyone knows about them, so there'll be no need to pretend to be human anymore.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@Zer0: Sorry dudebro, that wasn't what I was trying to get at. What I was basically saying was (I agree with your point about being capable of traveling between different planes) but what I was trying to get at was how Dante and Vergil would become more skilled with their powers. Maybe in time they would equal a pure being such as Mundus. I never said they didn't need a lot of help to bring him down, but what do you expect when you are facing the Lord/King/Big badass of the Underworld? You're going to need assistance.

And really if anything, Dante has an equal enemy that would give him a severe run for his money. That mofo is called Vergil

 

[Demi-fiend]

@Zer0: Sorry dudebro, that wasn't what I was trying to get at.

Oh, alright. Fine

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The point I was trying to get at though, was that if you're a "jack of all trades" (a "Proteus" if you will), then you're more often than not going to be a master of none. Not that there's anything wrong with that; it's part of the whole "balance" issue.

Not even most "prodigies" have the ability to master any and all skills they may need unless they're one of those "apex" Batman/Captain America/prodigies -- but then then that would go right back to Goliath Hulk territory... and people who are good at everything are more or less... disliked because of that.

[Recess: Season 4 Episode 18: Here Comes Mr. Perfect -- Ed. I have no life.]

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Wouldn't demons be at their strongest in hell?

Well, Limbo is essentially Hell on Earth, so there's not really much of a difference at that point.

I think you should mention the power balance (hybrids aren't as strong as pure beings, but are able to travel to any realm in compensation for that) just for the sake of clarity but ok.

Well, I'm going off info from the game, and as far as it's concerned they've said that Nephilim are more powerful because they have all the strengths of the angels and demons, but none of their weaknesses.

 

[Demi-fiend]

but none of their weaknesses.

But they only said that in the same "general" sense that Deacon Frost did when he was talking about Blade.

Blade had the weakness of human aging and blood-thirst. It's just one of those "overlooked generalities" -- like when people say that Superman is only vulnerable to kryptonite.

He's vulnerable to kryptonite, magic, possibly electricity (Livewire shocked him) and a "bad atmosphere" as well (according to MoS, anyway).

Besides, Dante really is weak against demonic (and possibly even Angelic -- who knows?) weapons, so there's that, as well.

Like I said, "jack of all trades" but in the end "master of none".

One more thing:

Had Mundus ripped his heart out, he would've died. Dante pierced Vergil in the heart, leading to his eventual death (and thus, subsequent resurrection as well -- due to Vergil ridding himself of his weakness -- his heart). Eva died through "ripped heart syndrome" as well, IIRC.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

Besides, Dante really is weak against demonic (and possibly even Angelic -- who knows?) weapons

Yeah, but he's not particularly weak against them.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Yeah, but he's not particularly weak against them.

You saw when he was being hit with bullets that he wasn't affected at all; it's like Superman -- magic hurts them both -- I don't know why people are tripping out about this.

And the twins are still weak against heart wounds; both Downfall and Mission 19 made that perfectly clear.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

But they only said that in the same "general" sense that Deacon Frost did when he was talking about Blade.

Well, that's a generalization that was expanded upon, but in DmC that's all we have to go on an nothing really contradicts that generalization (yet).

Blade had the weakness of human aging and blood-thirst. It's just one of those "overlooked generalities" -- like when people say that Superman is only vulnerable to kryptonite.

He's vulnerable to kryptonite, magic, possibly electricity (Livewire shocked him) and a "bad atmosphere" as well (according to MoS, anyway).

I believe MoS' use of the kryptonian atmosphere was the stand-in for Kryptonite, because to believe that so many shards of a planet that blew up trillions of lightyears away landed on Earth along with Kal-El's babyship is really dumb

Besides, Dante really is weak against demonic (and possibly even Angelic -- who knows?) weapons, so there's that, as well.

Like I said, "jack of all trades" but in the end "master of none".

One more thing:

Had Mundus ripped his heart out, he would've died. Dante pierced Vergil in the heart, leading to his eventual death (and thus, subsequent resurrection as well -- due to Vergil ridding himself of his weakness -- his heart). Eva died through "ripped heart syndrome" as well, IIRC.

See, but the thing is that the weapons are affecting human bodies (or at least physical bodies), and their powered by supernatural strength. It's the human vessel housing the supernatural entity that is a weakness in and of itself. It's like a space suit, really, that let's them exist in an environment they couldn't normally do anything in.

Dante shrugs off human bullets because they're piddly little bullets going into a supernaturally-enhanced body, but Dante impaling Vergil isn't necessarily about the magic of Rebellion (although that certainly does help), but also the supernatural strength Dante puts behind it.