An update for the upcoming DMC animated series
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Netflix’s Castlevania producer opens up about his PUBG and Devil May Cry projects
We had a chat with Adi Shankar about the upcoming Devil May Cry anime series and his PUBG and Captain Laserhawk projects.
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An interview about Shankar's approach to his video game adaptations.
We get a small insight into his take on DMC.
“I’m drawn to anti-heroes with a strong point-of-view."
Sephiroth is a straight-up villain, not even an anti-hero. There's nothing heroic about slaughtering a village then planning to absorb an entire planet's life force to become a god and do the same to other planets, leaving them barren husks.
This is the guy in charge of the anime? He didn't even pay attention to the game he supposedly likes.
“The characters in DMC have an operatic depth” is the new "Shakespearean".
Sephiroth is a straight-up villain, not even an anti-hero. There's nothing heroic about slaughtering a village then planning to absorb an entire planet's life force to become a god and do the same to other planets, leaving them barren husks.
This is the guy in charge of the anime? He didn't even pay attention to the game he supposedly likes.
“The characters in DMC have an operatic depth” is the new "Shakespearean".
There are people who consider Jason Voorhees and Freddy Krueger "anti-heroes". Figure that one out.
The problem is that term has been used too loosely or by people that think they know what anti-hero means, but clearly do not. It's definitely become a problem with anime creators; especially on the shonen side.
It's a bummer Warren Ellis isn't attached to this project. I was a big fan of his comic book work so I was curious what his take on DMC would've been. If you were a fan of a darker DMC like @Black Angel, he would've been your guy.
He'd be better off with Ninja Gaiden.
Oh well...hopefully the actual writer is pretty good.
I'd say Sephiroth is a tragic villian than an actual antihero. He's like Darth Maul from Star Wars. Both characters were doomed from the start. So was Vader but he's explored more thoroughly than either character.
You could make the argument that the DMC crew are antiheroes but they are closer to the Type 1. Tvtropes.org defines that as the Disney level which is a decent person who has some flaws like Nero, Lucia and Lady. Dante and Trish are between 1 and 3 but that's because of their implied pasts. Dante was a mercenary under Kamiya and Trish worked for Mundus. Both periods are unexplored and maybe not as bad as I imagined.
Vergil is between level 4 and 5. Capcom tries to give him more nuance but he just comes across as a One Piece villian. 5's end just felt rushed and unearned so I'm hoping Shankar and his team have more success.
I also wouldn't mind if they explore Dante's mercenary past. That is a gold mine and I can't believe both the anime and the reboot ignored it.
He'd be better off with Ninja Gaiden.
Oh well...hopefully the actual writer is pretty good.
I'd say Sephiroth is a tragic villian than an actual antihero. He's like Darth Maul from Star Wars. Both characters were doomed from the start. So was Vader but he's explored more thoroughly than either character.
You could make the argument that the DMC crew are antiheroes but they are closer to the Type 1. Tvtropes.org defines that as the Disney level which is a decent person who has some flaws like Nero, Lucia and Lady. Dante and Trish are between 1 and 3 but that's because of their implied pasts. Dante was a mercenary under Kamiya and Trish worked for Mundus. Both periods are unexplored and maybe not as bad as I imagined.
Vergil is between level 4 and 5. Capcom tries to give him more nuance but he just comes across as a One Piece villian. 5's end just felt rushed and unearned so I'm hoping Shankar and his team have more success.
I also wouldn't mind if they explore Dante's mercenary past. That is a gold mine and I can't believe both the anime and the reboot ignored it.
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Vergil is not even a type 4 or 5 anti-hero, and is more of anti-villain of type 1 category. Even when you take the ending of 5 in to account. Vergil's got way more nuance than nearly any villain in One Piece. He's got more depth than Ada Wong, who Capcom tries to portay as a "bad-ass" anti-hero, when she is just another selfish-biatch who's past still remains a mystery, and not worth investing in. We still don't even know what shadowy agency she works for.
I disagree with you on all counts outside of the RE one. But that's more because I don't know enough about RE. Unless you want to hear why I prefer Jake to Nero than I'm your guy.
Vergil had the potential to be an interesting anti-villian but Capcom barely developed him till 5. They relied more on vague headcanon and fan bias than any legit characteristics. I don't give 4 any credit but Credo is the character people romanticize Vergil as.
5 relies too much on fans feeling sorry for his 8 year self without giving his adult self any nuanced moments. Before the game starts he crossed the line so many times I rather Dante tell Nero to f*** off and kill him.
To me, the ending doesn't hold up and I rather get a new cast or a new writer.
So I'm hoping this series handles these characters better.
No thank you. I don't hate Jake, but I don't find him interesting.
I disagree completely. They give you enough in 3 to know why he does things to gain more power. You're clearly not suppose to completely sympathize with him. Understand yes; agree with him, no. Whatever development (which the viewer gets plenty of) comes from his human side, V. The more empathetic and humble side by comparison to Urizen. V clearly showed regret when the split happened. The fact Vergil actually questioned himself at least somewhat with "If our positions were switched" speech shows something DMC3 Vergil would never do. That shows some development.
Ironic, how you feel about Vergil, is how I feel about Hao Asakura. Who is even worse than Vergil and is not even a demon. Hao is some dude with ghost powers called a shaman and wants to be Shaman King, because he lost his goddamn mommy. So he feels the need to kill all of normal humanity and the "weak" for crappy survival of the fittest mentality. Jack ass is just a Sephiroth knock-off with out the science fiction elements..
I have no problem with a complete new cast of characters, and hope we get some new playable hunters aside from Nero. Also, give the man some new swords or melee weapons too.
I don't think the series can do better than 3 at least. It might handle how Trish or Lucia better, but we will wait and see. I know this upcoming series can't be worse than the DMC anime. F#ck that tedious series and Patty can f#ck off extra hard. As long as she is not in the new series, I already can consider that a positive.
@BrawlMan
I like 3 but it's not the best origin. There's more they could show/explore about these characters especially Lady. Plus I think actually showing how Vergil and Dante fell out in the first place would help. The manga prequel doesn't do that either.
To me DMC3 feels like season 7 of Smallville. That's when Lex and Clark already gave up on their friendship and started fighting each other. It's not an exact one to one but it's how I saw it.
I don't mind V but I would've preferred Vergil there. V is just a good character concept wasted on some poorly thought out KH bs. I rather he and Nero switch places.
V is more convincing as his own man than Nero was and i thought he brought more to the table. Nero is a dud to me and I rather just cut him from the franchise. Maybe Shankar can change my mind on that but I'm not in a rush to see him pop up anytime soon.
I don't mind having Vergil turned human and forced to work with the others. Everyone takes V at face value but forcing Vergil to work hard at keeping his secrets would be more interesting. Plus they could confront on his past actions etc. That forces him to defend himself or admit his wrongdoings.
I still prefer 5 to 4 but it had its own failings.
Honestly I don't like Patty but she's easy to fix. You give her powers so Dante has a more pragmatic reason to keep her around. But I'm more interested in her mom so I rather use her instead.
Morrison is kinda bland and I prefer Enzo but you could use them both.
I like 3 but it's not the best origin. There's more they could show/explore about these characters especially Lady. Plus I think actually showing how Vergil and Dante fell out in the first place would help. The manga prequel doesn't do that either.
To me DMC3 feels like season 7 of Smallville. That's when Lex and Clark already gave up on their friendship and started fighting each other. It's not an exact one to one but it's how I saw it.
I don't mind V but I would've preferred Vergil there. V is just a good character concept wasted on some poorly thought out KH bs. I rather he and Nero switch places.
V is more convincing as his own man than Nero was and i thought he brought more to the table. Nero is a dud to me and I rather just cut him from the franchise. Maybe Shankar can change my mind on that but I'm not in a rush to see him pop up anytime soon.
I don't mind having Vergil turned human and forced to work with the others. Everyone takes V at face value but forcing Vergil to work hard at keeping his secrets would be more interesting. Plus they could confront on his past actions etc. That forces him to defend himself or admit his wrongdoings.
I still prefer 5 to 4 but it had its own failings.
Honestly I don't like Patty but she's easy to fix. You give her powers so Dante has a more pragmatic reason to keep her around. But I'm more interested in her mom so I rather use her instead.
Morrison is kinda bland and I prefer Enzo but you could use them both.
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It is for me. The game could have worked with or without flashback's to their childhood and later falling out, and I would have been fine either way.
The anime could have done this too, but failed on so many levels. I will give the new series credit, if it does this right.
I wouldn't know, because I rarely ever watched Smallville.
Obito was the coolest guy!
Yeah, total bummer he was caught in a sexual misconduct scandal and his counter to it was this strange "I didn't realize I was famous, I don't personally identify that way" apology.
Well, yeah. A core part of antiheroes is that they're doing the morally correct thing (saving the world) but lack the traits that make them archetypically heroic or cool. Smashing a meteor into the face of the planet to absorb the planet's life force and being willing to travel the cosmos to drain every other planet of life in an ideological alignment with a 2000-year old virus is not remotely morally correct. Feeling bad for him is beside the point.
Dante shot an important religious figure in the first ten minutes of DMC4 and sent the public into a panic, putting them in direct path of an open Hellgate that spewed demons that slaughtered them. Trish also gave away the Sparda sword to the Order to ineffectually rise up the ranks and enabled the Order to kill said innocent people faster in exchange for literally no worthwhile information, and neither of them show any remorse or concern for making the situation way worse than what was needed. Type 1, they ain't. They're Nominal Heroes at best and Designated Heroes at worst.
TV Tropes doesn't use the numbers for their Anti-Hero classifications anymore.
Guys, what do these numbers even mean when TV Tropes isn't using them?
I've never seen a conversation get this obtuse with use of outdated terms.
had him kill an underling after its failure to defeat Dante.
had him stab another underling after he was no longer useful with full intent of killing him. That he turned out alive later is irrelevant.
had him chastise said underling for not being driven enough towards power to kill his own daughter and he knows the guy killed his own wife.
had him kill a blinded enemy and then desecrate the corpse with a newly-obtained weapon for target practice and because it looked badass.
had him show casual disregard for the innocent people placed in harm's way and caused mass murder events twice, as well as dishonoring the memory of his mother and father by pulling what he does.
He had potential, but the core trait of an anti-villain is having a heroic goal or traits and virtues, whereas everything Vergil's done so far is something that was also done by a straight-up villain in the series (Arkham, Mundus, Arius, Sanctus, take your pick) and he did most of them in the same game he debuted in. "Anti-villain" nothing. He's a villain villain, and he was actually morally better when he was Mundus's lackey solely because he had no control over his actions.
... And then he walked into the office, hid details of who he was and manipulated his way into reuniting with Urizen, including withholding information from Nero who he should recognize he mutilated and stole an arm from, but that's okay, since Urizen does all the bad things without V having to personally partake, they fuse together again, and Vergil is absolved of Urizen's actions since Urizen and Vergil aren't the same but somehow V is perfectly representative of how Vergil feels about anything at all. A petty grudge against Dante is the connecting thread between all of them now instead of a failure to protect Eva, but who cares.
The difference between the two of them is that one is a guy who is at best half a character, whose sole reason to exist is a tie to already established characters (primarily Vergil), whose gameplay is gimmicky AF, and whose story is poorly told in the game he debuts in to the point where it's supplementary media that makes his existence tolerable,
and the other character is Nero.
Alltropespedia still use the scale and rankings. Just a heads up.
That's why I said type 1. Type 1 is a noble demon. Still a villain though, and he at least bothers to acknowledge what he's doing in 3.
Yep.
I dislike Naruto more and more every single year. Sasuke and the entire egotistical Uchia clan be sucked into the phantom zone. I glad I stopped way early on back in 2007, I don't understand how fans kept going with a tragedy that story became. The only characters I cared about were Hinata, Shika, and sometimes Gara. Nearly everyone else I am either indifferent, or I found annoying and hated. Character development became wasted, and turned into just another Dragon Ball Z fanfic. It became less about ninjas strategy, more about another anime with superpower beings, gods/demi-gods, and demon shooting lasers and magic at each other.
Man, I am NOT going to the Sliding Spectrum page of a Trope Page on a backup/fork site of the site people are talking about in a conversation.
I mean, I did anyway to know it exists, but I shouldn't have to.
Killing enemies that don't pose any physical threat to him isn't noble, though.
Nor is honor solely defined by someone's willingness (or lack thereof) to use guns, but all you have to do is add that as flavor text on a Style or something and people will believe it.
"What are you gonna do with all that power, huh? No matter how hard you try, you'll never be like father."
What I expected: an actual explanation for Vergil's actions and what his endgame is after attaining the power he wants.
What I got:
"YOU'RE WASTING TIME!"
Yeah, that's hella acknowledgment. Also good to know that his cryptic talk about "Might controls everything. And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Not even yourself" doesn't apply anymore because his sole reason for power and what kept him going even after his defeat as Nelo Angelo is a petty need to get back at Dante for stealing Eva's affection and being the son that he thinks she died for, to the point he considers defeating Nero a worthy compromise as he defeats Dante by proxy.
His attainment of power wasn't to protect Nero, since he doesn't realize he has a son until Dante tells him. It wasn't about protecting Eva since V whinges about how "If only [Dante] never existed... then I....!" and mimes like he's going to kill his twin in a jealous rage over "Mommy didn't love/protect me enough", but if he wanted power just to defeat Dante and prove he was the worthy son, he would've just said so in 3.
Kinda weird how this writing works.
I am not asking nor forcing you to do so. You do whatever you want; it does not bother me. I find the info useful though.
I never said that nor implied. And when I last checked, Arkham was not defenseless (only pretending). Vergil knew something was off with Arhkam to begin with, and anticipated a betrayal. Though he didn't expect Arkham rise back up. Vergil is still more than happy to have some honor in his one-on-one fights against his brother.
Yeah, he is psychopathic manchild who acts with sense of calmness and superiority. I don't deny that. Even with those quotes, it's still some form of honesty without going overboard with text or forced exposition. It worked for me and most others, and I don't need Kojima level of writing to explain everything about the character. Before you start, I was not stating nor implying you were.
That is more of a DMC5 thing taking elements from DmC, but it still fits with Vergil's character. Wanting to be the superior twin. To be at the very top. To be the one and true Demon King. To be like father. It still fits even with some weird writing and semi-retconning.
I never said nor implied that either, but thanks for bringing it up.
You do realize this a man with a lot of deep seated issues, a hu-uuuuuggggge inferiority complex, and tons of self hatred for his human side? It's pretty clear in the 3rd game, the prequel manga of 3 (both volumes), and both within V and Urizen. A good amount of that show up in the actual game of 5. Consult with this. If that don't convince you, too bad; not losing sleep over it. Nor am I going to be doing a constant back and forth about the subject. Disagree all you want.
Yeah dude, "Vergil is dumber than the average gamer" isn't exactly a good excuse.
Arkham was pretending to be defenseless but Vergil treated him as if he was defenseless and that only one hit would kill him. Which it should if that sword he carries was worth a damn.
Vergil then relates a story for the audience's benefit (certainly not Arkham's) letting us know that once upon a time a bald wizard with no eyebrows made a human ritual sacrifice for more power and that sacrifice was his wife. Lady repeats this info to Dante later because IDK, the target audience for this game has short attention spans and doesn't notice redundant dialogue.
Anyway, Vergil should assume Arkham indeed has more power than usual even if the ritual he pulled was botched, and I dunno, decapitated the corpse. He's not above doing exactly that to Beowulf a mission or two later, and Beowulf wasn't currently under suspicion of betraying him.
But he doesn't take any precaution because the story requires that he doesn't, and he is not a strong enough character to carry a game by himself and needs Arkham to take the heat off of him, hence he is dumb, gets called out for being dumb and "underestimating humans", and then however many decades later in-universe he's back on his bullsh#t and underestimating the power of humanity again.
Bold of you to suggest Sparda even has a character for Vergil to make sense in emulating-- let's be honest, Sparda is a plot device more than an actual person-- but in 5 games I never once heard that he was a psychopathic manchild obsessed with a sibling rivalry from when he was 8 years old, did you? That's entirely a Vergil thing.
You do realize that repeating this doesn't make it true or relevant to my assessment of him?
Like, I know he has "deep-seated issues". Every character ever written by a hack or a 13-yr old with too much internet has "deep-seated issues". I happen to think that those issues are bullshit and he's just Obito with a katana.
Remember when Obito was this close to being a somewhat tolerable villain because he called Naruto out on his thick-headed and naive pursuit of peace as if the countries and clans within them would just stop fighting if he became Hokage and willed it hard enough?
And then a few chapters later Obito's conviction boils down to the fact that he lost Rin, a girl who didn't even like him and died when she was 13, and it's all about how sad and powerless he felt as a child and one Talk no Jutsu later he's back on the good side and dies being forgiven by Ninja Jesus?
Yeah. That's pretty much how badly Vergil devolved in Capcom's endeavor to make him the sympathetic fan favorite. I couldn't give a good goddamn less about his issues if I wanted to.
Vergil is arrogant; he underestimated Arhkam. It's as simple as that. Both Lady and Dante made the same mistake in different ways. And by proxy some of the audience too. Lady thought and hoped there was some good left in him. Dante thought Arkham has minor flunky and errand boy. Arkham had a plan knew how to play everyone like fiddle based off their relationships and personalities. Their strength and weakness. I give credit where credit is due, that is impressive and engaging writing. You're making it a bigger deal than necessary, so that is on you. And like I said before, Vergil has a deep obsession with winning and being better than everyone else. So it makes sense he would underestimate humans again. Dude is an egotistical jack ass that can fight. The boot fits.
Not exactly wrong, but what I recall from the narration in 1, various episodes in the anime, and Dante and Vergil's recollection of the LDK, he was man that fought for the weak. Saw the strength in humanity and have something most humans have over demons. Almost all the journeies we see of Dante is not that different, than what Sparda did in the past with his exploits. "You're wasting time!" is Vergil's facade slipping and shows where the man child parts comes in. The other two in 3 are: the petty "Shut up." at Arkham, (when the latter calls out Vergil's petty reason for power and his incompleteness) and the "Why isn't this working?!". You know, when the ritual was incomplete and Arhkam intentionally left out the blood of the priestess.
A more subtle approach compared to most pyshco men or women in media, but in the games, he has that trait in several forms. It shows that Vergil too is impatient and gets rash himself, just like Dante. Vergil is a control freak and when things are not in his control, he whines like a biatch. Especially when he's so close to poowwwweeeerrrrr!!!!!
Good for you. Difference is characters like Obito and Hao Asakura f#cking suck, and they need to be kicked in the dick a million times with a steel toed boot. Vergil is well written with or without comparison to those petty f#ck nuts. And once again, you're supposed to understand Vergil's motivations, but not completely sympathize him or see him in the right. You're getting all that sh#t mixed up with the idiotic part of the DMC fan-base. Obito and Hao Asakura (the manga version) you're supposed to be sad for or see them in the right (more so the latter), but both failed in all of the major areas. I feel nothing for either them; especially for that hypocritical biatch-in-a-boxstand, Hao. Paxton Fettel is more sympathetic than either of those two by comparison, and you're not supposed to completely cry that douche either.
I get where some of your frustration is coming from, but you're letting every single small detail distract you or blindly enrage you. Look, you can believe whatever you want, cuz I am done at this point. I've already my cases and explained what is necessary. I am moving on to something else, and you have a blessed night. Stay safe.
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