A look at the game mechanics.

[Azurel]

I'm going to have to slightly disagree.

I've said this before, but I'll say it again: This could have been solved if all three "Forms" had been mapped to the "L2" button. The forms could have easily been switched out if the player could toggle instead of having to hold the button down. Then there would have been room for a hard lock-on and a true Royal Guard at that point.

However, I did not play it, and since I haven't had too many problems with Ninja Gaiden II (I only beat it on Acolyte mode, however) then I will hold my final thoughts until I've had the chance to fully play the game and get used to the controls.

 

[Azurel]

They could just simplify things by making the circle button a dodge button and make the Angel and Devil buttons lock- on buttons as well to use the old fashioned way of juggling.

Wow, you have made things better just by saying that. It's a solution I haven't thought of (although others may have, I honestly don't know) and it helps keep the "NT Signature Control Scheme" (Heavenly Sword) in place. Good thinking on your part.

Edit: I didn't mean to spam, it didn't occur to me to edit properly. My mistake.

 

[berto]

Actually, there's quite a difference. DmC's dodge is still camera- and player postion- dependent, basically the same pet peeves that were in the original dodge is still there, they just changed the button format, where as Bayonetta's dodge is just camera dependent.

You see, Bayonetta's camera was focused on her, so she was always in the center. . So no matter what direction you were facing, you dodged in the direction that you wanted to go.

DmC's camera isn't dependent on anything, it's completely free, and the dodging system is still dependent on what direction you were facing, basically the same kind of mechanics like the original DMC with the only difference being in camera type. This would mean that the same problems can come up. The only thing that can prevent that is if NT would fix the camera system.

I'm not sure I understand all of this but there is another major difference between the Bayonetta dudge systen abd DmC's and that is that in Bayonetta as long as you get the timing right the dudge is always successful, period, in DmC, however, a dudge can still take damage if the enemy makes contact which is not the case in Bayonetta.

 

[AngelMode]

I've said this before, but I'll say it again: This could have been solved if all three "Forms" had been mapped to the "L2" button. The forms could have easily been switched out if the player could toggle instead of having to hold the button down. Then there would have been room for a hard lock-on and a true Royal Guard at that point

Wow, you have made things better just by saying that. It's a solution I haven't thought of (although others may have, I honestly don't know) and it helps keep the "NT Signature Control Scheme" (Heavenly Sword) in place. Good thinking on your part.

I've thought about both of these, and I've found some major flaws in it. First, the toggle between modes instead of holding will just reverse back to the cycling between weapons. I think the reason why they approached it with the holding of the button was simply that... it effectively gets rid of cycling and gives you three weapons to use almost instantly in any order and fashion.

With that being said, hard lock-on needs precisely hold of the button to pull off some moves (like stinger and high time) and if you are holding one of the triggers it would be a major hassle to do. Imagine yourself holding the angel trigger and hard-locking with the right bumper but you want to quickly switch to demon mode and do a move that requires lock on, you have to let go of the left trigger, hit the right trigger, let go of the right bumper, and press the left bumper... THEN you can go ahead and do the move... I mean, it's possible...

I'm just trying to see why NT is doing what they are doing. There is got to be a good reason for it, especially when Capcom was supervising most of the gameplay stuff and I bet many of the ideas in designing the combat this way came from them.

 

[Azurel]

I've thought about both of these, and I've found some major flaws in it. First, the toggle between modes instead of holding will just reverse back to the cycling between weapons. I think the reason why they approached it with the holding of the button was simply that... it effectively gets rid of cycling and gives you three weapons to use almost instantly in any order and fashion.

With that being said, hard lock-on needs precisely hold of the button to pull off some moves (like stinger and high time) and if you are holding one of the triggers it would be a major hassle to do. Imagine yourself holding the angel trigger and hard-locking with the right bumper but you want to quickly switch to demon mode and do a move that requires lock on, you have to let go of the left trigger, hit the right trigger, let go of the right bumper, and press the left bumper... THEN you can go ahead and do the move... I mean, it's possible...

I'm just trying to see why NT is doing what they are doing. There is got to be a good reason for it, especially when Capcom was supervising most of the gameplay stuff and I bet many of the ideas in designing the combat this way came from them.

Trumped. So be it. Well, dare to dream (of a better control scheme) anyway.

I actually have no further say on the matter other than, "Hope it all works out ok."

Edit: Wait, actually, I do. This is why it's so hard to make good action games. Something's gotta give. You can't have everything at the same time. It's the reason why Ninja Gaiden doesn't have a Shuriken-Slinger Style.

 

[Railazel]

With that being said, hard lock-on needs precisely hold of the button to pull off some moves (like stinger and high time) and if you are holding one of the triggers it would be a major hassle to do. Imagine yourself holding the angel trigger and hard-locking with the right bumper but you want to quickly switch to demon mode and do a move that requires lock on, you have to let go of the left trigger, hit the right trigger, let go of the right bumper, and press the left bumper... THEN you can go ahead and do the move... I mean, it's possible...

I'm not saying that there is a seperate (well, actually there is but you'll see why later) lock- on. I'm proposing that Angel and Devil Triggers act as lock- on buttons as well.
Basically:

R2: Angel Mode/Lock- on
L2: Devil Mode/Lock- on

and for Normal Mode:

R1: Lock- on

And here's how you would use the juggle moves:

Tremor: R2 + Down + Triangle

Prop: L2 + Down + Triangle

High Time: R1 + Down + Triangle

You get it, now?

 

[chocolateghost79]

I'm not saying that there is a seperate (well, actually there is but you'll see why later) lock- on. I'm proposing that Angel and Devil Triggers act as lock- on buttons as well.
Basically:

R2: Angel Mode/Lock- on
L2: Devil Mode/Lock- on

and for Normal Mode:

R1: Lock- on

And here's how you would use the juggle moves:

Tremor: R2 + Down + Triangle

Prop: L2 + Down + Triangle

High Time: R1 + Down + Triangle

You get it, now?

i like it, i think ninja theory could at least take the angel/devil mode lock on idea into consideration. i mean it wouldn't force them to have change their control scheme and it would help with combat and traversal.

 

[Railazel]

i mean it wouldn't force them to have change their control scheme and it would help with combat and traversal.

Definitely. It would also help if they made the camera focus on the player instead of focusing on the enemy.

 

[Stylish Nero]

i like it, i think ninja theory could at least take the angel/devil mode lock on idea into consideration. i mean it wouldn't force them to have change their control scheme and it would help with combat and traversal.

Why don't you post it on their website or tell them it?

 

[Railazel]

Why don't you post it on their website or tell them it?

Because it's already five months from release and they're done with most of the game. So any ideas from fans aren't going to be accepted by this point in time.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Because it's already five months from release and they're done with most of the game. So any ideas from fans aren't going to be accepted by this point in time.

I'm sure they can easily incorporate a lock-on system but yeah your probably right but hey if Capcom gives them the chance to make a DmC2 they can improve from anything the fans or buyers find needed or whatIdontknowwhatimtalkingabout.