A bit slow on the uptake

[LordOfDarkness]

Okay, so I've been wandering around on these forums lately, reading on and off things to do with DmC. And people's negativity towards the way the Devil May Cry Series is heading, with the new 'Reboot'. And at first, I didn't really get what the huge uproar was all about. But now, sat on my own and bored, I think I actually get where the real problem lies.

I can't understand why I haven't realised this sooner, hence the name of the Thread. I've been seriously slow on the uptake. I think I can understand why there is a certain air of negativity. The answer is simple. Take away the childish comments about Dante looking like an emo. Take away the way he is styled all together. And take away the fact that he has a cigarette in his hand. And for the moment, put aside that Capcom have decided they have wanted to start again with Devil May Cry.

Instead, take your mind to current times, and look back throughout the Series you have grown to love. I get what it is that is wrong with DmC. It's not that it isn't Dante, and all those other untrue comments. It's the fact that DmC isn't Devil May Cry 5. It isn't even a continuation to the story, that we are aware of so far. It's a story that places us before Devil May Cry Three even, so it seems.

So I understand the points and opinions, and I get the frustration now. To summarise, I accept DmC. I even welcome DmC with a red carpet, and have good hopes for it. But what I don't welcome, and I don't think any of us do, is how Capcom approached this.

It is their wish to start again, understandable. It is their wish to design what they want, how they want. I totally respect that. Making something that generates fans for several years, and then starting again, without so much as saying that they are going to continue how things originally looked is the part that is unacceptable. I draw the line at this, I think it is wrong.

Capcom should understand that they need to let their fans know that there will be a follow on to Devil May Cry 4. Ultimately, all Capcom need to do, and I find must do; is make Devil May Cry 5, and explain Nero's story. All they have to do is that simple thing, and then they should continue with DmC. If they scrap everything, and just carry on going with this, then they have lost my respect.

So I get it. It isn't DmC that has ruined Devil May Cry. It isn't Ninja Theory's take on the Series. It'll be Capcom's fault entirely, for enticing us and welcoming us to a great game series, and then closing the door on all of our faces.

Nothing becomes popular unless people make it so. Without fans, without us, they are nothing. They would make no money, no profit, gain or benefit. We make them succeed, because we enjoy what they do. So they may have the right to do as they please. But they have no right to discontinue what they already started.

I'll quote that everything has a beginning, a middle and an end. Capcom, you've just made two beginnings, so we deserve an end.

 

[fon]

I thought they said they might go back to the original series after DmC comes out :huh:
Why did Capcom want to make a reboot in the beginning again? *forgot Dx*

I tell myself that it was because they couldn't make a good storyline anymore. In DMC4, Nero basically DID come out of nowhere. Cool guy, but then Capcom tells us he's Vergil's son. Okay...? News dissapears for a while, then bam, reboot.
The time they could've used to write for DMC5, was spent developing DmC.

The series has always felt a bit inconsistent, with a different director/team for each game.



Sorry if my reply sounds a bit stupid. I'm not too good with putting my thoughts down and i'm really tired but still took time to read your post.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

I thought they said they might go back to the original series after DmC comes out :huh:
Why did Capcom want to make a reboot in the beginning again? *forgot Dx*

I tell myself that it was because they couldn't make a good storyline anymore. In DMC4, Nero basically DID come out of nowhere. Cool guy, but then Capcom tells us he's Vergil's son. Okay...? News dissapears for a while, then bam, reboot.
The time they could've used to write for DMC5, was spent developing DmC.

The series has always felt a bit inconsistent, with a different director/team for each game.

Sorry if my reply sounds a bit stupid. I'm not too good with putting my thoughts down and i'm really tired but still took time to read your post.

Well I really hope so about that =/ Answers are what I am hoping for here!

I don't know, it wasn't set in the image they wanted it to be set in. They wanted to Westernise it.

Don't apologize for anything, I really appreciate that you took the time to read it. Your comments and views are always welcome, Fon ^_^

 

[Richtofen]

That's how I feel LoD. I liked Nero but he is now back in the closest with closed doors, no explaination no nothing other than "You are a decendent of Sparda!" dun dun dun...And yes...I've always felt the series had more beginnings than an actual middle piece, we need also end to the orginal series as you have pointed out .

All they had to do was make a beginning, middle and end but they chose to try and expand on the story too much and now it's all muddled between past enemies, brother rivalry, and a teenage rebel. If they try to wipe the slate clean and forget about the past games they will have lost the trust of all fans.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

That's how I feel LoD. I liked Nero but he is now back in the closest with closed doors, no explaination no nothing other than "You are a decendent of Sparda!" dun dun dun...And yes...I've always felt the series had more beginnings than an actual middle piece, we need also end to the orginal series as you have pointed out .

All they had to do was make a beginning, middle and end but they chose to try and expand on the story too much and now it's all muddled between past enemies, brother rivalry, and a teenage rebel. If they try to wipe the slate clean and forget about the past games they will have lost the trust of all fans.

Then you have the same feelings on this as I do Well it's the fact that Devil May Cry didn't really feel like it was heading anywhere. And then they just shoved Devil May Cry 4 out there, expecting us to understand it and accept Nero and everything. And now they are doing the same thing with DmC, I find. They are expecting (Well hoping rather) that we like it and understand it. And at first, that just isn't going to be the case. Negativity will come before understanding. Understanding only comes through answers, and takes time. We took time to understand that Nero was actually an enjoyable character. Fun to play as, and interesting. But we couldn't take time to understand him, because they haven't explained him. And without those explanations, Devil May Cry is rendered pointless, because it hasn't actually ended yet.

No wonder they call the new place in DmC, Limbo City. That's because that's where they've placed the old Devil May Cry.

 

[Meg]

That's basically where I'm at to. Pretty much everyone on this forum had theories we spent all this time discussing, trying to figure out what DMC5 would be out. Some of the ideas were actually really good. The fact that Capcom wouldn't even try makes me sad. The fact that the Dante redesign is ugly doesn't help either. XD

 

[Richtofen]

Well that's just the thing...they had all this time to plan a DMC 5 for Nero but Capcom didn't do anything about it other than say "Hey, give them a new DmC to play and they will accept it hands down since it has the DMC name". I almost feel like an dog when it comes to people like this <_< They think we will just lay down and accept this new change w/o explaining anything else. It's just not right XD

 

[Virago]

Honest question: Do you really think the reaction would have been that much better if we were looking at DMC4.5/DMC5, designed to explain Nero's origins and during which Dante makes a cameo or two?

Personally, I don't think so. First, that would make Nero the new star of the game and second, it would do nothing to advance Dante's story. The big reason the series needed the reboot was because each game became a standalone. Dante was really the only connection between each installment.

If Capcom had delivered a more satisfying DMC4, the series could have continued indefinitely with games that feature Dante and a sidekick kicking some demon ass. Maybe that would have sold, but it would have been pretty lame.

What I'm trying to say is that Capcom went as far as it could go with what it created, short of doing the above scenario with infinite "sequels." DMC3 gave us Dante's origins, for better or worse. DMC1 and 2 showed us his life. DMC4 would have been one of many with one of many Neros.

I agree that some kind of next step in the story would have been better-received than a retelling of Dante's origins, but I don't think the original concept had the ability to give us anything else, least of all a satisfying end.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

^

Honest answer to that is yes. And call me sad for thinking that, but Dante didn't even need explaining in Devil May Cry. It was only Nero that did. All I am saying is that before the Reboot, which we don't even know if that will go any better, they should of at least closed the doors on the Series that they originally started. To not do so I find is seriously disrespectful to fans. That doesn't mean they have to make Devil May Cry 5 the most epic game ever. It just means they give us some answers, that we rightfully deserve.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

I thought the only way to clear up where Nero's come from is by backtracking to a younger Vergil. They might not be obvious about it, but they might hint at Nero in DmC. NT and Capcom said repeatedly that they're keeping the core essentials that made DMC. They're great storytellers, so incorporating a few answers and clearing up any confusion in the new game is likely. Anyway, my view on it is that Nero's origins lies in Vergil, and Vergil's origins lies in the past alongside Dante's. Vergil has been in three of the four games in one form or another, so my bets are on him 'returning' in DmC.

It's not DMC5, but I think it's better than any DMC5 they would have given us. Because, let's face it, Capcom are good at creating more questions than giving answers, as they've proven in every game. I think NT is the best thing to have happened to this franchise and that Capcom made a wise decision in handing Dante over to them. But that's just my personal opinion on the whole matter. I still think the fandom would have reacted this way about Dante's looks and the vibe of the game, even if it had been the much anticipated DMC5.

 

[Ebony]

Hmmmmmm

If someone had said to me say, 3 months ago would you rather have a DMC5 explaining Nero origins, or a DmC -reboot explaining Dante's origins (what we don't know) Guess what I would have said?! lol However I do agree with this -

It is their wish to start again, understandable. It is their wish to design what they want, how they want. I totally respect that. Making something that generates fans for several years, and then starting again, without so much as saying that they are going to continue how things originally looked is the part that is unacceptable. I draw the line at this, I think it is wrong.

I guess were still in the early stages and we might be suprised? Playing the game itself may be awesome - it had bloody better be!
It is crap that there are a load of unanswered questions, that may never be answered, but Capcom will just do what they like.......why not, it's their franchise......I'm rambling, I need sleep.....sorry!

*spreads happiness and hopefully nice suprises to come throughout the thread*

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Devil May Cry having a Reboot isn't the point.
Dante being redesigned how they wished him to be, isn't the point.
Rightfully and respectfully, Devil May Cry is in their hands. And they can do whatever they please with the story, and with the Franchise.

Where I am coming from is this. I respect that they are making DmC. But what about DMC? You can't say it is their right to discontinue what they started. That's just like me purchasing a book, reading halfway through, and then realising that the rest of the pages are blank. And ultimately, this is the same scenario. I would feel like I wasted my money buying that book. And don't you think that if they don't at least end DMC with Devil May Cry 5, that you have wasted your money also? Wasted it in the sense that we never got an ending. Wasted it in the sense that although the games were fun, they were pointless, because its story never ended. You may as well take any other game of the same genre, and say that it is a better game, on the principle that its story begins and ends.

Devil May Cry started with Devil May Cry 3. That to us, was its beginning. But what Devil May Cry game is the end? Have they explained to us if Vergil is actually dead? Have they explained to us what Nero has to do with fitting in to everything? Have they explained the story behind Sparda, and what went on for real and everything (Lots of theories surrounding him. Maybe he isn't even dead?) Have they explained what happened to Dante in Devil May Cry 2? No to all of that. They have not.

Capcom, and any Company have the right to create something. But they don't have the right to start again, without justifying what they originally created. You can't do as you please and expect your fans to accept it. That is rude, and it doesn't work that way. Until Devil may Cry 5, I will never truly accept DmC as being how Devil May Cry is meant to be. Considering DMC has a bigger history at the moment that DmC. I don't want it going to the point that they are on DmC 4, and we're all thinking 'What was that game before this?'... Oh right, that was it. It was DMC, Devil May Cry, and there was a whole unexplained story to that.

You can respect the Company. You can respect their wishes. But you shouldn't respect the way they approached this. They should of made Devil May Cry 5, before they Rebooted it. Don't start something again, when you didn't end it to begin with. And if anyone can accept that they are putting Devil May Cry as we know it now, into a grave; and leaving it their to rot forever, then you can accept more than I ever will.

 

[Ebony]

You can respect the Company. You can respect their wishes. But you shouldn't respect the way they approached this. They should of made Devil May Cry 5, before they Rebooted it. Don't start something again, when you didn't end it to begin with. And if anyone can accept that they are putting Devil May Cry as we know it now, into a grave; and leaving it their to rot forever, then you can accept more than I ever will.

Nice paragraph! I understand where your coming from now! Sorry if my earlier post was a bit crap, I'd just woken up and decided I don't care about Nero, lol. I usually think more before replying. You have some excellent points there and I agree! They had better not leave what we already know to rot

I'm gonna leave the thread now 'cuz my brain isn't working propley today! Sorry!

 

[icmasticc]

Devil May Cry having a Reboot isn't the point.
Dante being redesigned how they wished him to be, isn't the point.
Rightfully and respectfully, Devil May Cry is in their hands. And they can do whatever they please with the story, and with the Franchise.

Where I am coming from is this. I respect that they are making DmC. But what about DMC? You can't say it is their right to discontinue what they started. That's just like me purchasing a book, reading halfway through, and then realising that the rest of the pages are blank. And ultimately, this is the same scenario. I would feel like I wasted my money buying that book. And don't you think that if they don't at least end DMC with Devil May Cry 5, that you have wasted your money also? Wasted it in the sense that we never got an ending. Wasted it in the sense that although the games were fun, they were pointless, because its story never ended. You may as well take any other game of the same genre, and say that it is a better game, on the principle that its story begins and ends.

Devil May Cry started with Devil May Cry 3. That to us, was its beginning. But what Devil May Cry game is the end? Have they explained to us if Vergil is actually dead? Have they explained to us what Nero has to do with fitting in to everything? Have they explained the story behind Sparda, and what went on for real and everything (Lots of theories surrounding him. Maybe he isn't even dead?) Have they explained what happened to Dante in Devil May Cry 2? No to all of that. They have not.

Capcom, and any Company have the right to create something. But they don't have the right to start again, without justifying what they originally created. You can't do as you please and expect your fans to accept it. That is rude, and it doesn't work that way. Until Devil may Cry 5, I will never truly accept DmC as being how Devil May Cry is meant to be. Considering DMC has a bigger history at the moment that DmC. I don't want it going to the point that they are on DmC 4, and we're all thinking 'What was that game before this?'... Oh right, that was it. It was DMC, Devil May Cry, and there was a whole unexplained story to that.

You can respect the Company. You can respect their wishes. But you shouldn't respect the way they approached this. They should of made Devil May Cry 5, before they Rebooted it. Don't start something again, when you didn't end it to begin with. And if anyone can accept that they are putting Devil May Cry as we know it now, into a grave; and leaving it their to rot forever, then you can accept more than I ever will.

Quoted for truth. The biggest reason for disappointment is indeed the way Capcom approached this project. I, too, expected a DMC 5 to wrap things and explain Nero's origins. It would have been nice. There are rumors flying that Capcom will still produce DMC5 regardless of this new game but I, like so many others, highly doubt that situation. If this game is widlly successful, they'll just continue this new franchise. If this game is an utter and complete failure, they'll just forget about "Devil May Cry" franchise in its entirety. It's really a lose-lose situation for any fan that expected the main series to continue.

While I may end up liking this new game, I'll always wonder what would have happened in a DMC5 game. Damn you, Capcom. So cruelly bittersweet lol.

 

[V]

The most disappointing aspect I find, is that it seems CAPCOM is closing the door in our faces (on a series that doesn't really need a reboot) - simply for money. Dante's new look and their new take on him they have admitted is to appeal to newer generations. Not the original fans.

And that is my problem with it all. I have been more a fan of the Devil May Cry game series and cared more about its characters than any other game or movie or TV show I can think of, and this is a bitter pill to take. It's sort of like if I was a fan of the show Friends (I'm not, by the way) ditching the cast and rebooting it with teenagers to make it 'cooler' and appeal to that group of watchers, and screw what the former fans that made the series its money in the first place think or want.

Okay, "Friends" is a bad analogy, but you know what I mean. Think of a show that has a lot of fans but isn't thought of as 'cool' right now. It would just be obvious exploitation to bring it back only to almost completely change it to make it 'current'.

Of course if DmC actually turns out to be amazing, I'll eat my typing. But if it isn't, I'll continue to think CAPCOM are becoming a bunch of hacks.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

Nice paragraph! I understand where you're coming from now! Sorry if my earlier post was a bit crap, I'd just woken up and decided I don't care about Nero, lol. I usually think more before replying. You have some excellent points there, and I agree! They had better not leave what we already know to rot

That's quite alright. Explanations and apologies aren't required, my friend But considering your point, I don't think it is about liking Nero as such. I'm speaking more on the essential level of giving the Series a proper ending. Something in which it can say that it at least finished, before they got DmC out there.

Quoted for truth. The biggest reason for disappointment is indeed the way Capcom approached this project. I, too, expected a DMC 5 to wrap things and explain Nero's origins. It would have been nice. There are rumours flying that Capcom will still produce DMC5 regardless of this new game but I, like so many others, highly doubt that situation. If this game is wildly successful, they'll just continue this new franchise. If this game is an utter and complete failure, they'll just forget about "Devil May Cry" franchise in its entirety. It's really a lose-lose situation for any fan that expected the main series to continue.

While I may end up liking this new game, I'll always wonder what would have happened in a DMC5 game. Damn you, Capcom. So cruelly bitter-sweet lol.

We could all completely take to DmC like it is better than Devil May Cry itself. And surely that is what Capcom is aiming to achieve. But regardless to whether we do or not, I agree with you that they should still wrap things up. I'll try and uphold some optimism about the future of the Devil May Cry Franchise, but at the moment I think they are approaching the Reboot in quite a disrespectful manner. I think we'll all have to wonder what 'might have been', if they never bother explaining it all. And I think that will leave a lot of us, if not all of us, bitterly disappointed.

The most disappointing aspect I find, is that it seems CAPCOM is closing the door in our faces (on a series that doesn't really need a reboot) - simply for money. Dante's new look and their new take on him they have admitted is to appeal to newer generations. Not the original fans.

And that is my problem with it all. I have been more a fan of the Devil May Cry game series and cared more about its characters than any other game or movie or TV show I can think of, and this is a bitter pill to take. It's sort of like if I was a fan of the show Friends (I'm not, by the way) ditching the cast and rebooting it with teenagers to make it 'cooler' and appeal to that group of watchers, and screw what the former fans that made the series its money in the first place think or want.

Okay, "Friends" is a bad analogy, but you know what I mean. Think of a show that has a lot of fans but isn't thought of as 'cool' right now. It would just be obvious exploitation to bring it back only to almost completely change it to make it 'current'.

Of course if DmC actually turns out to be amazing, I'll eat my typing. But if it isn't, I'll continue to think CAPCOM are becoming a bunch of hacks.

I respect that in your opinion, the Series didn't need a Reboot. And I personally agree, that it did not. Because to be honest, I am happy with where it is at now. Okay, so there are a few flaws with it currently. But just because something gets a little bit too difficult to continue, doesn't mean they screw up the paperwork and storyboards and start it all again. I think whether it was needed isn't the main point, however. Capcom wished to Reboot it, so we should respect that in a sense. And I'd only truly respect it, if they cleared up what they created to begin with.

The Company may not be appealing to everybody's taste, when they say they are making a Reboot. But in their defence, they made the gaming series what it is to date. They made us enjoy it, by making it. If they hadn't, we'd have no understanding of it. Whether they want to begin again, possibly taking new directions with it, is more so their wish. Maybe we don't all want this, but it's better than killing it all together.

DmC may be a great game, and we could all enjoy it. Or it could be a rubbish game, and we could all hate it. But ask yourself this. Would you hate DmC more if it was terrible, and DMC had never given us explanations? Or would you hate it more if it was terrible, but you at least knew what had happened with Nero and felt like DMC had given everything it had?

For me, I would despise DmC less (Depending on if it's terrible) if they had at least given us answers to the current DMC.

 

[V]

Well, CAPCOM can do whatever they want with their intellectual property, and we as fans have to like it or lump it. I respect the right of an owner to do what they wish with their IP on principle, but when game companies or IP owners in general don't respect that IP itself, it is hard to respect them - as in, admitting it's simply a cash cow. Intellectual property is one thing, but when you owe your success to your fans, you ought to respect them as well.

One example of someone who doesn't respect their fans or understand the dynamic between fan, fame and fortune would be the likes of author Anne Rice. No apparent respect whatsoever for the people who bought her books, made her a bestseller, and who love her creations, so full of her IP jealousy. Now while CAPCOM aren't as bad as she is, they essentially expect us to start buying this game on the strength of our love for the 'old' and outdated - what we know and love, in other words - while telling us what we know and love just isn't any good any more. Are they respecting the fans in this, the people who are supposed to be netting them "5 million sales"? Because as much as I respect the right of the IP owner to do what they like, when they are doing something in order to get me and millions of others to part with cash, I expect them to be a least receptive to the views and concerns of those fans.

The relationship between artists and authors and publishers and their fans/market is a subtle but important one. The opinions of fans do matter, because without them the 'artist' is an artist for nobody but himself. I can appreciate this myself as it's in my line of work, and the last thing I'd do is tell my collectors and fans that all the work they've bought off me previously is outdated and I just want more people buying off me, so I'm going to do work that's different and 'hip' in the hope of more lovely money. They might respect my decision, but if I was collecting my work and I heard that, I'd probably be a bit miffed, and a bit disappointed, too. Of course I can't compare the fine art market with the games industry, but there is a comparison and a similarity in there in how you treat your audience. Games are out to make money and always have behind whatever artistic notions appear on the surface - no point pretending otherwise, but it's not something they should force home like a brick through a plate-glass window. And, as an entertainer, you should always consider your loyal fanbase and your reputation above scrabbling for more sales. I suppose I think it's just common sense not to upset your good customers.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

The only thing that makes me angry is that they entirely dropped Nero from the games. My favorite character, whom I love oh so much more than the loathable Dante (IMO), gone. Granted the new Dante may be even better than Nero, but still. :/

 

[Legendary Darkslayer]

Totally agree with you on this LoD. The one main reason I am not fully onboard with this reboot is that we may never get closure to the original series. I fear that if this is successful, the series will never go back to its roots and that we'll just continue with this reboot thing. The old series needed closure. Just one more game. I don't even care if the endings bad, at least it ended. It's like when a show gets cancelled mid-season in the middle of a storyline, it sucks and you keep wondering "what might have been". I hope we don't get into that situation with DMC. Now, if CAPCOM made an announcement that they were going to make at least one more DMC game, I would definately support this new game all the way. At the moment however, I'm indifferent about this reboot.

 

[GamblingGambitCloud]

as of yet the game is considered a spin-off...so while it is a reboot...it doesn't affect the other games...and therefore, we may get 5