DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Yeah. Oh and...sorry for jumping on you like that. Just got a lot of pint up rage I gotta get out of me.
I'm Disappointed at Gamescon
- Thread starter Stylish Nero
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Yeah. Oh and...sorry for jumping on you like that. Just got a lot of pint up rage I gotta get out of me.
KtWtWiS43
Well-known Member
Well my favorite games are my favorites because I think they're good. Like I still actually like playing DMC2 (don't ask me why) but I completely realize that it's a piece of ****.
As far as saying the game is watered down, you're not addressing why I said it was watered down, or where I think the loss in quality comes from. Your comment, "Just because it's being handled by different people and just because it's not the same DMC people are use to, it shouldn't be written off as 'worst' or 'watered down,' " does not address at all why I dislike the game. Re-read my post. I don't care who's developing it. I'm arguing that the gameplay and platforming are ripped off from various sources, thus failing for the DmC reboot to truly be original. I wouldn't care honestly who was behind making the game. Hell, I'd be behind it if Tameem wasn't arrogant enough to act like he was creating the best DmC game there's ever been, with no respect to the original games or fans. Instead, he promotes his game as better, when I see every single last gameplay element that he's borrowed from to make his game. This doesn't make it better in my opinion. It makes Tameem look like sort of a jerk for remaking an already validated series and trying to pass it off as better when underneath, you can see everything he stole from the other games crammed inside his sad little reboot. Re-read my previous posts, again I don't care who's developing it. No matter who's behind the chair, if they make something watered down, I will not support it.
KtWtWiS43
Well-known Member
Unleash your rage my demon brother. Yahh I just replied to your last post
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Also...I'm not done here.
I've played all the DMC games and can easily evaluate them.
Firstly, DMC1 IMO was an okay game and DMC2 was in fact an improvement to the gameplay...it allowed for the player to at least switch their guns on the fly while DMC1 where you had to constantly go to the menu and switch out your guns and swords making very limited use of the d-pad or the R2/L2 buttons or the B button was just another shoot button while DMC2 they added B as the acrobat/Trickster button and added acrobatic features. DMC2 only problem was dumbed down enemies/difficulty and a BS Style Gauge as well as not listing all your combos cause DMC2 actually had a lot of combos to use and sword weapons being the same....so less diversity. It had a bad camera angling and a pretty stiff and sh*t camera but DMC1 had that problem too. DMC1 was an okay game because it was challenging, the boss fights were awesome and well done and kept you on your toes, the stage design was gorgeous and it started a new video game series (without it God of War, Ninja Gaiden...the way it is now, No More Heroes, Heavenly Sword, Bayonetta, and etc wouldn't exist or be the same) but being the first doesn't mean being the best that is like saying the first phone is the best phone. DMC1 was very limited and suffered from its generational or being a new IP problems such as its bad camera and camera angling...it was challenging but most of my deaths came from my camera in the game literally f*cking with me and getting me killed and bosses. Stuff like only 1 healing item that heals up your entire health per mission was BS and the Yellow Orb system was very flawed....I'm okay with using them like Sonic heads in a Sonic game or an extra life in a side scrolling platformer but the Yellow Orb system was very flawed and DMCs biggest issue was that YOU COULDN'T GO BACK...once you cleared a mission you had move to the next one and you couldn't redo any past mission and even when you beat the game you were forced to go to the next difficulty setting and like what if I missed a mission or an secret item..."nope just f*ck it and move on you can find it when your playing the game on Hard Mode." That was BS and annoying and I was glad DMC2 fixed it....at least when I die in DMC2, DMC3, & DMC4 it was fair but this game wasn't hard as it was being impossible and intense on the gamer. At least I had fun playing DMC2, DMC3, & DMC4 (granted DMC3 was hard but it was a fair hard) that they promoted replay value DMC1 IMO was too annoying to go back with all of its many flaws.
So IMO DMC1=DMC2 in terms of gameplay both have their own flaws and share one common enemy (sh*tty camera).
I can go on about DMC3 & DMC4 but yeah I can agree that DMC3 is better than DMC4 but DMC4 is pretty damn excellent itself.
mrrandomlulz
Monsuuuta moonssuta mo mo mo mo monsuuta
except you always state your opinion as if it was a fact.
Agility
"Known"
Agility
"Known"
It's like you don't know what fact means and why they hurt you. So I'll do something special for my special student.
Facts = Fire
Fire = Hot
Hot = Owiee.
Kay?
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
....................................................................................what does that mean?
Now choose your words wisely.
KtWtWiS43
Well-known Member
When I said that you hadn't rebutted my other opinions, I meant that I wanted your responses to the following points:
"The combat and platforming look like they were made alot easier. You can stay in the air for way too long, the Style ranking doesn't time out anymore so unfortunately, you don't have to be very quick on your toes anymore. The Devil/Angel Lift seem taken directly from Nero's Devil Bringer arm and Grim Grip, the frame rates were dropped from 60 to 30fps so even if DmC were running at full capacity, it'd still be half as smooth or georgeous looking as the series old standard, the Bob Barbas boss battle looks like the glitzed up version of the terrible Trismagia fight in Devil May Cry 2, the Poison boss battle looks recycled from the excellent Colossus of Rhoads boss fight in God of War 2 which includes Kratos swinging to different areas during the battle, none of the weapons seem as inspired as the orgy of creative weapons we saw in Devil May Cry 3, and overall the story just doesn't strike me as much as the old series"
I wasn't asking for your thoughts on the entire series, but now that we're on the topic:
You're absolutely right, DMC2 surprisingly enough (I've been replaying it lately) introduced alot of series norms such as Twosome Time, Wall Hike, Rainstorm, and others. Despite that DMC2 sucked (I feel like I've said this too much) it was an important stepping stone if anything, which helped create the fantastic DMC3 and DMC4. I'm glad we can both agree that 3 and 4 are excellent! As for your thoughts on 1, I personally love the camera. It can be a pain in the ass sometimes, but the overall cinematic quality it brings to the environments seems to highlight each area and make it look and feel epic in scope. I don't think I've seen an in game camera exactly like it. However, your thoughts on how the yellow orb system is flawed don't make much sense to me. It lets you start back at your last checkpoint, and past that you're on your own. Nothing strikes me as immediately wrong about it. Furthermore, the DMC series never holds your hand, but throws you into the action and forces you to become a better player. I've always loved this about the series as it makes the overall experience so much more gratifying and intense when you actually beat each level. Your comment, "stuff like only 1 healing item that heals up your entire health per mission was BS," is actually exactly what makes the first game so great. It forces you not to rely on powerups, but purely on how skilled you are as a player. Agreed though, later installments were spot on in making a much needed chapter select option, but DMC1 in my opinion is so damn challenging and fun to play, that I don't really mind it. Each playthrough, each mission I get to I get this "Oh yah I remember this mission!!" feeling that I can't deny, but that's just me. I also agree about how integral DMC1 was in redefining the genre. I do feel however that it is the best DMC game, only for the reason that it created so much and is such an original work of genius, that the other games can't touch it save for DMC3's excellent voice acting/story/platforming/combat system. So much had never been done before with Devil May Cry, and the fact that I still avidly play it, 11 years after its release, and it still offers a challenging and satisfying experience is only a testament to its greatness. After all, there's a reason why most people still consider Citizen Kane to be the best movie of all time. Not to say that DMC1 is the best videogame of all time, but for everything its brought the genre, I'm sure it will be revered and talked about for years to come.
Agility
"Known"
That's not why people are commenting, well that's not why I was commenting.
The deal is, he hasn't played the final product to even assume what the game is about puzzle wise. He's only seen the same videos as us. So all he's doing is pretty much blogging.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
I would want to deal with the top bolded part later....I don't have enough time...If I agreed with you...I would've said I agreed with you.
Also before I move on Citizen Kane. It was voted the best movie of all time by the Sights & Sounds poll of critics for 5 times in a row..........until it was replaced by Vertigo of 2012...so it proves the first isn't all always the best.
Even though something is the first to start something or a trend doesn't make it the best.....that is why we have successors and future series that is to surpass it. I can easily say Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden, God of War (maybe its latest games), and DMC3 + DMC4 are better than DMC1 because they were improvements over what DMC1 was. I don't know its an opinion. You admire DMC1 as the best because it started a new trend in gaming that is like me buying the very first car ever made because it opened up a new way in transportation. Granted games are no different from other forms of entertainment such as music, movies, art, and shows but unlike those media games can be improved and are constantly being improved. I salute DMC1 for bringing in a new generation of games but I'm not going to say the first DMC game is the best DMC game or the best game of its generation because of its artist breakthrough in gaming and bringing forth a new era. Cause if DMC never existed I'm sure some other game would've done what DMC did. I mean DMC is a hack n' slash, beat em up hybrid long before DMC existed hack n' slash game & beat em up games already existed and were very popular...it would've only had been a matter of time before some game combined the two.
You may love the camera but many others don't and it was very frustrating sure it would be nice to have a nice view of the scenery and pretty nice stage designs but when it obscure or negatively affect the gameplay it becomes a problem...the camera was stiff and moved only when it wanted to. It was very hard to tell what the enemies were doing and even the lock-on feature didn't help it anyway (like DMC3 & DMC4) and at times it was comprehending what the hell was going on especially in some boss fights and led to many unfair deaths.
The Yellow Orb system was very flawed because when you lost all of your Yellow Orbs you must restart the mission with NO YELLOW ORBS meaning you had to get more of those thing and with the being pushed forward mission by mission not allowed to go back BS and their rarity as well as how expensive they were and DMC's concept of if you buy something that item gets more expensive the more you buy it...most games that follow a system like that at least allow you to restart with a certain amount of re-continues. I hated MegaMan Zero(1) for following a system like that but loved everything else about that game (its only flaw) but liked that future games fixed that. Future DMC games could've actually had fixed that instead of ditching the Yellow Orb system for the Gold Orb system but heh.
As for the power ups...it only allowed 1 healing item but it allowed for you to purchase and use as much as DT items as possible which made spamming that thing easy (well I had to rely on those heavily) and just DTing and spamming the Rocket Launcher helped defeat bosses like Griffin & Phantom and also helped a lot with Mundus (this method wouldn't work on Nelo Angelo or maybe it was me since I love fighting him mono e mono with no tricks). I did method against DMC2 bosses because it made it too easy but when DMC3 made it that you have to be more stylish and promoted creatively mixing your attacks and well nerfing all gun weapons that method wouldn't work. I kinda agree about 1 healing item per mission but it would've been better if it had a better Yellow Orb system.
Hmmmm..your right about the last statement to a degree but most people won't pick up an old DMC(1) and say ohhh its such a great game with games like Bayonetta, Ninja Gaiden, GoW, DMC3-4, and etc it makes DMC1 look obsolete. Its not like DMC is some great and legendary book (eg: the Divine Comedy) or a masterpiece its just another game that started a new trend like a new fashion statement....that is how I view games like another fashion statement it will be remembered by many but thats it only remembered. DMC (or Capcom) can't keep living in the past as DMC was a big accomplishment they gotta keep moving forward, beat its competition, and show why DMC was great to begin with.
DevilsAdvocate1234
Well-known Member
Well if you don't agree with him, answer him. I've been reading your argument with each other and I'd actually be interested to hear how you'd respond to what he's asking... ("The combat and platforming look like they were made alot easier. You can stay in the air for way too long, the Style ranking doesn't time out anymore so unfortunately, you don't have to be very quick on your toes anymore. The Devil/Angel Lift seem taken directly from Nero's Devil Bringer arm and Grim Grip, the frame rates were dropped from 60 to 30fps so even if DmC were running at full capacity, it'd still be half as smooth or georgeous looking as the series old standard, the Bob Barbas boss battle looks like the glitzed up version of the terrible Trismagia fight in Devil May Cry 2, the Poison boss battle looks recycled from the excellent Colossus of Rhoads boss fight in God of War 2 which includes Kratos swinging to different areas during the battle, none of the weapons seem as inspired as the orgy of creative weapons we saw in Devil May Cry 3, and overall the story just doesn't strike me as much as the old series" )
Instead of bringing up insignificant **** like the Gold v. Yellow system y'know?
Oh, and I think his point with Citizen Kane was in regards to how old of a movie it is as a metaphor that old things can still be regarded as great. Vertigo is also an old movie so his point doesn't change, but whether or not it's at Number One has f*cking nothing to do with Devil May Cry haha.
DevilsAdvocate1234
Well-known Member
Yeah damn him for judging it! He should judge the game, not videos.....of the game........put out......by the company MAKING the game.........to show what it's like.........to play the game.......that would be stupid.
KtWtWiS43
Well-known Member
Alright now we're arguing something totally different than when I first commented, which if you remember again, I was trying to back you up. At any rate, I'm just checking out of this thread. You don't want to talk about the points I actually brought up, and instead you're bringing up new ones, simply to refute them. I make an example like Citizen Kane and you refute it simply because it isn't the #1 movie anymore, while completely missing the reason I brought it up in the first place. It's place in the argument was to provide an example of something old that has a continued shelf life due to it's universal acclaim. Also, your comment of games being like fashion statements disheartens me, because it makes me feel like you only place intrinsic value upon games so long as they are new and flashy, which are then discarded once they fall out of style. It makes sense then that you'd so quickly abandon the old series in favor of the reboot if that's how you feel about games, but I tend to respect the old series and old games for what they continue to bring into my playing experience. Games like God of War may expand on the formula set by DMC1, but they in no way can capture its spirit. Ironically your comment about how games "shouldn't live in the past" is further invalidated by my point that everything in the reboot is recycled from the past, but I think it's time to wrap up this conversation. At this point it kind of seems like you don't like DMC1 because its too hard for you. I like challenges because they force me to be a better player. Difference of opinons. I can't debate you on your opinions, however strange or off topic they may be, so I'll talk to you later bro.
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
............*sigh* do we really have to go through with this.......it seems you misinterpreted my post wrong but I'm not going to go on about since I'm not in a good mood for this since my debit card is missing.....can we settle this later when my real life matters is solved...but since I'm in a slightly good mood I'll say this. games and fashion are alike...both there are usually something new around the corner and people will usually nowadays sell their old games to get these new games and most people do look to new games because its a chance of advancement. Plus you prove my point...some gamers will tend to bust out the NES or old PS1/PS2 and play some old games just like how people will wear certain clothes though outdated by modern means they still do (I don't really care about clothes so I'll wear old 90s outfits if it looks nice) and their is even HD Collections....I even played the DMC HD Collection & DMC4 because DmC caught my attention and I never payed DMC much attention but the new game did and it gave me an opportunity to the try the old ones and I fell in love with them....not DMC2 though....but mostly DMC3 & DMC4 it was fun and great, DMC1 was pretty great too but from a logical modern day gamers perspective, DMC3 & DMC4 was superior gameplay wise but DMC1 was a fun ride too and I respect it as much as the first Sonic game, but unlike Sonic, current DMC games don't suck (okay not Generations & Colors) but what I'm saying is DMC shouldn't go back to DMC1's backwards way of platforming ,or go like DMC3 have a Yellow & Gold orb option,but instead make an enjoyable experience for everyone who wants to play it to enjoy ,not just people like you to enjoy, and still offer a challenge and if you want a challenge greater than DMC1 on even DMD mode play DMC4 on Hell Mode or Bloody Palace, that mode is very intense but I still find it fair for its only an optional mode that doesn't negatively ruin the gameplay experience for everyone. I guess I can say this Games shouldn't live in the past they should grow from it and expand upon its current establishment.
As for your other post that you and the other guy who keep nagging me to respond to......I'll get to it....okay....but I'll say this you said DmC doesn't add anything new to DMC but just take from the old games...it does that and improves upon it like implementing Nero's Devil Bringer and allow for Dante to pull in and be pulled into enemies while Nero can only do one or the or based on the opponent but couldn't incorporate the Buster mechanic and it even replaces the Style System with the Mode System that functions very differently from the Style System but it is an more advance version of Nariko's Stance System from HS but allows for DMC like actions rather than HS.
So anyway DmC does adds new elements such as Environmental Kills (something DMC never tried before) and a combo connection switch system where the player can execute a combo with one weapon and finish it with another weapon....meaning like in DMC4 if Dante was doing a combo with Rebellion (Rebellion Combo A-B whatever) but he can finish it off with a Lucifer Combo A-B....so Dante is doing a regular Rebellion pause Combo but he finishes off by quickly switching to Lucifer after the pause part in the Rebellion Combo B and then executes that Lucifer Combo finisher where Dante swiftly strikes his target with extreme speed or if with Gilgamesh he can a Rebellion Combo end with that Gilgamesh combo finisher million kick attack but this concept can work anyway with any part of the combo where you continue from a combo from any part of it with another weapon. But I think based on old gameplay footage you can still reset your combo by switching weapons its just a new feature that works independently from the old DMC weapon switch formula. DmC also has a better weapon switching system that is even better improved with the Mode System, even though they replaced it with the Style Switch system.
As for the Colossus of Rhodes battle.........I'll deal with that later.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Wow. This discussion is still going on?!
Stylish Nero
We Dem Boys!!
Wow. This discussion is still going on?!
Wanna be part???
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