Vergil WAS stronger than Dante. In the beginning of DMC3 only

[RebellionXYamato]

There are some guys who believe that Dante was only lucky, that he never truly was stronger than Vergil. :blink:
Lol, Dante is stronger than Vergil and he proved it more than once.
In the last fight, Vergil had Yamato and Force Edge equipped while Dante, gameplay wise, could only have 2 devil-arms and 2 guns. 1 of the devil arms is definitely rebellion... cutscene-wise 'coz he used that for the final blow.
So, a guy holding the sword that separates the human world from the demon world, and also the unawakened sword that was used to slay a demon emperor, was beaten by a cocky dude with a sword and 2 pistols. Point number 1 has been made.
Point number 2. In Devil May Cry, Nelo Angelo has crossed Dante, and yet in the end he still ended up being Dante's bitch.
So, chronologically, Dante has beaten Vergil 3 times. First in Mission 20 of dmc3, 2nd in their second fight in DMC, and the 3rd in their last fight also in DMC.
A guy said that Vergil could kick Dante's ass if he was present in DMC4? Really..
All he does is dash around. Dante can cycle through his styles plus his armory in DMC4 is beastly.
Royalguard alone is proof that Dante beats Vergil. Full Royal Release would kill him outright.
Can you guys tell me something I missed? I really have nothing to do right now, Just finished a date with a girl I like and my friends apparently, are busy with "plans" so, an argument about my two fave video game characters might be the thing i need before I sleep.

 

[V's patron]

To be fair, the developers were just being lazy with how they treated him in the special edition.

i think the odds are in vergils favor as vergil has more expierence and knowledge with his powers than dante has.

 

[darkslayer13]

In actual power they are equal but they each have something the other does not. Vergil has more experience and skill and Dante has the willpower that comes from accepting his human heart. Dante's heart provides more of an advantage than Vergils skill so as long as Vergil rejects his humanity Dante is the one that will win but if Vergil accepts his humanity Dante would not be able to beat him again ( of course if Vergil accepted his humanity they wouldn't have any reason to fight again so it doesn't really matter)

 

[D-Sparda]

There are some guys who believe that Dante was only lucky, that he never truly was stronger than Vergil. :blink:
Lol, Dante is stronger than Vergil and he proved it more than once.
In the last fight, Vergil had Yamato and Force Edge equipped while Dante, gameplay wise, could only have 2 devil-arms and 2 guns. 1 of the devil arms is definitely rebellion... cutscene-wise 'coz he used that for the final blow.
So, a guy holding the sword that separates the human world from the demon world, and also the unawakened sword that was used to slay a demon emperor, was beaten by a cocky dude with a sword and 2 pistols. Point number 1 has been made.
Point number 2. In Devil May Cry, Nelo Angelo has crossed Dante, and yet in the end he still ended up being Dante's bitch.
So, chronologically, Dante has beaten Vergil 3 times. First in Mission 20 of dmc3, 2nd in their second fight in DMC, and the 3rd in their last fight also in DMC.
A guy said that Vergil could kick Dante's ass if he was present in DMC4? Really..
All he does is dash around. Dante can cycle through his styles plus his armory in DMC4 is beastly.
Royalguard alone is proof that Dante beats Vergil. Full Royal Release would kill him outright.
Can you guys tell me something I missed? I really have nothing to do right now, Just finished a date with a girl I like and my friends apparently, are busy with "plans" so, an argument about my two fave video game characters might be the thing i need before I sleep.

There is not really room for debate, since the games already demonstrated that Dante can defeat Vergil more than once.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

There are some guys who believe that Dante was only lucky, that he never truly was stronger than Vergil. :blink:
Lol, Dante is stronger than Vergil and he proved it more than once.
In the last fight, Vergil had Yamato and Force Edge equipped while Dante, gameplay wise, could only have 2 devil-arms and 2 guns. 1 of the devil arms is definitely rebellion... cutscene-wise 'coz he used that for the final blow.
So, a guy holding the sword that separates the human world from the demon world, and also the unawakened sword that was used to slay a demon emperor, was beaten by a cocky dude with a sword and 2 pistols. Point number 1 has been made.

Actually the force edge wasn't released, it was still in it's sealed form. It's real form is the "Sparda." Plus Vergil just got that sword and didn't know how to fully use it to its full potential. Plus Vergil wasn't focused in that fight since he wanted power and he was fighting his brother to the death, which distracted him.
Point number 2. In Devil May Cry, Nelo Angelo has crossed Dante, and yet in the end he still ended up being Dante's bitch.

Storywise, it's wierd, but CAPCOM storywise, Vergil is still the same level he was in DMC3 while Dante surpassed that level in DMC1.
So, chronologically, Dante has beaten Vergil 3 times. First in Mission 20 of dmc3, 2nd in their second fight in DMC, and the 3rd in their last fight also in DMC.
A guy said that Vergil could kick Dante's ass if he was present in DMC4? Really...

Dante would actually. If Vergil suddenly appeared in DMC4 from where he died in DMC1, then Dante would still beat him because he's at DMC3 level still, and Dante has surpassed his DMC1 level. So yeah, unless Vergil trained while being dead, then Dante can beat him.

All he does is dash around. Dante can cycle through his styles plus his armory in DMC4 is beastly.
Royalguard alone is proof that Dante beats Vergil. Full Royal Release would kill him outright.

Vergil can just "Dash" away from Dante when he releases Full Royal release.

Can you guys tell me something I missed? I really have nothing to do right now, Just finished a date with a girl I like and my friends apparently, are busy with "plans" so, an argument about my two fave video game characters might be the thing i need before I sleep.

 

[788Masri]

i think that at the begining of DMC3 Vergil was much stronger than Dante. this is because he embraced his demonic inheritance while Dante chose to reject it entirely. like when dante said "I dont have a father", as such Vergil is stronger than Dante. however, at the top of temingru when Vergil stabs Dante, Dantes demonic powers activate inorder to save him. as such he is left with the choice to acknowledge his demon powers or die. he (obviously) chose the first of these and saw his power increase exponentially as a result.

now i have a thoery when it comes to demon powers, you see even though Dantes powers did increase at an amazing rate, Vergil was at the peak of that growth. so why did dante win? well i think that demon powers are incomplete and are only able to reach their full potential when the demon "has a heart" ie embraces their humanity. so they feel a full spectrum of emotion such as guilt, sympathy etc. a sort of yin-yang thing. through balance they acheive power. this explains why sparda was able to single handedly defeat mundus and his entire army. by embracing his humanity spardas power was able to reach a completely different level.

if you apply this to dante, it makes sense hes stronger than Vergil in the end. as Dante does embrace his humanity from the start. hes sort of a reverse sparda. his embracing of his demonic side coupled with his humanity gave him power akin to his fathers. while Vergil treated his humanity like a cancer that needed to be removed, he did not accept it. referring to people as "the humans" and showing as little emotion as possible (tho still cool). as such he wasnt able to reach the same level as dante and subsequently lost.

 

[Dante47]

I think Dante got lucky, but after his battle with Vergil, I think he exceeded him. When he matured and kept himself calm and cool, he even overcome Mundus. Dante has become practically a God in battle, and Vergil couldn't even stand a chance against a modern day Dante.

 

[darkslayer13]

one thing that does need to be considered is that there are things Vergil has done with his power that Dante even by DMC2 never figured out how to do. (eg. summoned swords,most Darkslayer style moves, Vergil's AI only moves etc.)

 

[V]

Canonically - Dante ultimately wins (he has to, he's the hero)
Canonically - Vergil's moves have more raw power hit for hit

Depends on what you mean by "strength" who is stronger. I'm inclined to think from a 'Bruce Lee' perspective, and say real 'strength' doesn't come from having more muscle or moves - it's a combination of having the right composure, being flexible, bodily strength, being able to anticipate and turn your enemy's attacks against them, etc. A relatively small person can whoop a big one's ass if they know how.

Dante and Vergil are apparently equal in size and general strength, but it's implied Vergil is more composed, experienced and has refined his attacks to be more efficient. (He might even be physically stronger since was apparently well into training). You'd expect this would give him total advantage, as it did at the end of the first battle on top of the tower; he whipped Dante's ass good. However, you could put this down as well to Dante being significantly weaker till his demonic power is 'awakened', or to the fact Vergil hadn't had to leg it all the way up the tower and fight many demons and bosses first, or that Dante simply wasn't expecting Vergil to fight no-holds-barred.

If you want my opinion, Vergil's biggest weaknesses are his assumed superiority over the opponent, and the fact his style and general 'way' seems to be to strike hard and fast rather than wear down an opponent. Even in the way he uses Yamato, it looks like he expects the force of the attack would finish off the opponent and then stands there smacking Yamato back into the saya, which is the best time to jump in and kick his arse, obv. These two things would be enough to screw him over in a battle if he wasn't careful. Oopslulz.

Someone mentioned he lost composure in the final battle, whereas Dante seemed a lot calmer and together. It never helps to be too angry. He definitely underestimated both Arkham and Dante, also. So while I still think Vergil is physically more efficient than Dante, he's got major flaws - specialized, not a good all-rounder... he's a 'sprinter', not an endurance fighter, and after a good trashing he wasn't able to pull it back. Dante's attitude/morale, ultimately, I guess was also the better one to have.

 

[Laurence Barnes]

vergil owned dante at the begginging and was just pure epicness as it went on they drew then at the end dante overpowered

 

[Agility]

Vergil won because he came out cooler.

Get it? Nelo Angelo? One cold son of a *****? No? Kay.

Either way I still believe Vergil wins since he could've just killed Dante if not for Arkham interfering. There is also no telling what Vergil went through when he and Dante BOTH got beat down by Jester.

Besides that, Vergil was using Force Edge, he did not MAIN Yamato. Which was his downfall.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Did anyone noticed that in the Vergil Battle 2 Vergil used Yamato & Beowulf but in the last Vergil Battle he used Yamato & Force Edge....its like he too is affected by the 2 weapons per battle limit I guess if you put it into story perspective Capcom applied gameplay elements to nerf Dante so he can only use 2 Devil Arms & Gun Weapons while in other games he can use more than 4 weapons as a way to imply Dante is only skilled enough to use 2 Devil Arms per battle a skill he can use quite easily in DMC1 & DMC4 but in DMC2 it showed that Dante was skilled enough to take down demon kings with only his Rebellion and basic non-demonic sword to imply he is strong enough with his sword skills alone.

So yeah anyway, Vergil was stronger than Dante at the beginning since Vergil owned him even if Dante put up a good fight Vergil didn't need Devil Trigger but then he unlocked his devil powers which increased his stamina and even physical abilities(speed, power, durability, & etc) to Vergil's level and in their second fight Vergil had an upgrade too with getting Beowulf.

Look at it like math. Before at the beginning Vergil>Dante because for Vergil he had his demon powers awakened so he had more stamina, was faster, and overall well rounded fighter than Dante without DT but then Dante unlocked his demon powers and even DT putting him on Vergil's league then Vergil got Beowulf...before Dante had Agni&Rudra & Cerberus(but he can only use 1) so even then he couldn't match Vergil's power...so Vergil too had an extra weapon that matched Dante's so they were equals its in fact unknown who would've won if Lady & Arkham never intervened....but I'm betting on a draw or Vergil at least standing up more victorious since he has Beowulf too and I think Vergil wasn't going all out but Dante did get other upgrades and power ups(like QuickSilver Style).

Then came the final battle...Vergil instead of using Yamato & Beowulf he used Yamato & Force Edge.......and in fact I think the Beowulf gloves Dante found in Mission 14 were in fact Vergil's so Vergil lost a very useful weapon there putting him at Dante's level. In the final battle one can say they were equals and that made the battle epic that Vergil fought using his 100% but Dante used over 100%. Dante was like an immovable object and Vergil the unstoppable force....sure Vergil had more raw power and even speed but Dante had unwavering faith and shook off Vergil's attacks like nothing or tried to not let his Ultimate Judgement Cut stop him and Dante had his ultimate resolve that he can't lose. Vergil lost because he was using Force Edge and that messed up his fighting pattern...in its unreleased form it was a sword more useless than Rebellion while Dante had Rebellion & any of his other Devil Arms that were more useful than Force Edge even if Vergil was using them.

In the end Vergil lost ultimately based on plot and him not accepting his human side and like Dante told Agnus humans have something demons lacked(willpower and a heart to fight to the end no matter what)....Dante in the final battle his mind was clear and he was more focused while Vergil was blinded by power and the sheer fact if he kills Dante he would be one more step to his goal of ultimate power and the roles were reversed(before Dante was the one who was just shooting and being cocky and Vergil saw things more clearly and fought with a clear mind.

IMO in the end of DMC3 they were both equals but sometimes even fighters who are equally matched gotta have one winner...its the one who makes the first mistake or loses focus in the battle. Sure Vergil went all out in that battle but so did Dante and he did it with a more clear mind.

Then comes DMC1 its a safe bet that over the timeskip Dante sold a lot of his weapons(except his guns and Rebellion or just used Force Edge which is more useless) but still trained a lot and have well more experience than his DMC3 self to make up for those lost weapons, not using his trademarked sword Rebellion and losing his Doppleganger & QuickSilver skills(10 years was enough) but I assume that Mundus did the same for Nelo Angelo(Vergil) and upgraded his fighting abilities. They fought the first time Nelo won mainly because he was cocky and its a safe bet if Dante was more serious it wouldn't gotten curbstomped so I say they were almost equally strong but in their second fight since Dante had Ifrit as well and Dante won and like I said Dante in DMC3 could only use 2 Devil Arms he can now use 3 and since Nelo Angelo well lacked less brains then Dante, Dante had the advantage of strategy over him....Nelo Angelo had common sense he was no tactical genius sure he was a fighting machine genius. So Dante won but I don't think he was stronger just outclassed Nelo in one battle and this time he was trying really hard unlike last time he took Nelo for granted. The final fight Nelo was losing and so he removed his helmet and unleashed his full power but still lost so this time Dante was actually stronger....by still a bit its not like he curbstomp him but Nelo lacked brains and will power. The virtues many heroes/warriors needed to prove their power. Nelo Angelo wasn't Vergil in the mental sense he was a powerhouse and had more speed and power than Dante but he was like the many demons Dante fought before.

NOW Dante is stronger than Vergil well in DMC4 firstly and even more OP than him in DMC2.

 

[V]

Vergil's ONE WEAKNESS (cue music) - and it's stated in the game - is that he's way too confident of himself. He underestimates those he thinks are weaker than him. Having Force Edge at the end must have sent his ego into overdrive, and then he got his ass beat because it's not the weapon that gave him any real 'power', but the resolve behind it that gets there in the end, as Dante proves.

He probably got Force Edge, which was what he was after anyway, and thought he was practically unstoppable. When really he was wrecked. He did fall down a hole, fought Arkham, and fought Dante three times. If he really is equal to Dante at the least, and superior in tech at best, and they both went through the same amount of punishment (almost), then I reckon it was just Vergil's arrogance, or carelessness, that caused him to lose.

What if Dante had grabbed the sword first? Would Vergil have tried harder to beat him?

 

[D-Sparda]

Dante's logic about embracing his human side gives him more power doesn't make sense. His human half doesn't grant him any power to help his devil half. He should of said to Agnus that the true reasons of why his might is so great, is because the strongest devil's blood flows in his veins, he trains over the years and he accumilated experiences from his past battles.

 

[V]

Dante's logic about embracing his human side gives him more power doesn't make sense. His human half doesn't grant him any power to help his devil half. He should of said to Agnus that the true reasons of why his might is so great, is because the strongest devil's blood flows in his veins, he trains over the years and he accumilated experiences from his past battles.

I agree.

It would only help in giving him a measure of greater versatility in handling situations? There are other ways to win conflicts other than with force. Love conquers all, etc. But - in terms of the game, he wins just about all of his battles with brute force. Not tact, love, or anything else.

Vergil should probably have won. In DMC game terms, might IS right. Unless it's the ability to feel sorrow or love or something that unleashes the true Sparda whoop-ass. But that wasn't what won Dante the battle at the end of 3.

...I think I'm agreeing with Agility too in that using Force Edge which he'd only just got a hold of was a crappy idea. Hadn't even swung it around for a practice first!

 

[D-Sparda]

I agree.

It would only help in giving him a measure of greater versatility in handling situations? There are other ways to win conflicts other than with force. Love conquers all, etc. But - in terms of the game, he wins just about all of his battles with brute force. Not tact, love, or anything else.

Vergil should probably have won. In DMC game terms, might IS right. Unless it's the ability to feel sorrow or love or something that unleashes the true Sparda whoop-ass. But that wasn't what won Dante the battle at the end of 3.

...I think I'm agreeing with Agility too in that using Force Edge which he'd only just got a hold of was a crappy idea. Hadn't even swung it around for a practice first!

I still remember that bitter moment, when Vergil tried an upper slash to take down Dante and failed badly. Vergil was suppose to be the better swordsman. If they wanted to make him loose, they should of put him in a believable situation where he can be defeated properly. For example, Dante using Quicksilver style when they are running at each other to deliver the final blow.

 

[darkslayer13]

Dante's logic about embracing his human side gives him more power doesn't make sense. His human half doesn't grant him any power to help his devil half. He should of said to Agnus that the true reasons of why his might is so great, is because the strongest devil's blood flows in his veins, he trains over the years and he accumilated experiences from his past battles.

his human side doesn't give him more raw power but it gives him something more important. the human heart provides the determination and will to win when it should be impossible. Demons have only power so if something has more power than them they cannot win but humans don't have that limitation. the reason Sparda won was because he had massive amounts of demonic power backed by a heart. he possessed determination and willpower that a demon should not have been able to have. Dante wins his fights for the same reason he has massive amounts of demonic power (probably not as much as Sparda but still a lot) and a human heart (or at least half of one, he doesn't really seem to be strongly motivated most of the time.) the reason Vergil does not win despite showing an amount of skill that is clearly higher than Dante is that is is limited by his rejection of his humanity. no matter how much he trains no matter how skilled he becomes all he has is his power and because of that he cannot win against Dante who has more than that.(using the sealed form of Force Edge against someone who specializes in that type of weapon and has a much better one when his primary weapon is a katana probably didn't help but it wasn't the main reason.)

 

[D-Sparda]

his human side doesn't give him more raw power but it gives him something more important. the human heart provides the determination and will to win when it should be impossible. Demons have only power so if something has more power than them they cannot win but humans don't have that limitation. the reason Sparda won was because he had massive amounts of demonic power backed by a heart. he possessed determination and willpower that a demon should not have been able to have. Dante wins his fights for the same reason he has massive amounts of demonic power (probably not as much as Sparda but still a lot) and a human heart (or at least half of one, he doesn't really seem to be strongly motivated most of the time.) the reason Vergil does not win despite showing an amount of skill that is clearly higher than Dante is that is is limited by his rejection of his humanity. no matter how much he trains no matter how skilled he becomes all he has is his power and because of that he cannot win against Dante who has more than that.(using the sealed form of Force Edge against someone who specializes in that type of weapon and has a much better one when his primary weapon is a katana probably didn't help but it wasn't the main reason.)

Sparda being backed by a heart... a demonic one. Vergil may have forsaken is humanity, but he was still able to have the determination to claim the power of his departed father(well, he tried and would have succeed if Dante didn't followed him after the battle with Arkham). Beowulf, the Sparda hater, was also been able to have determination, the determination to destroy Sparda's blood relations. Unlucky for him, he received a family head bang. Agni and Rudra had the determination of making sure no one pass the doors they were guarding and they even managed to convince Dante to take them with him. Mundus, who had severe injuries, still came to take down Dante for round 3. In his case, it counts has determination and willpower(him of all people). You don't have to be a human to be cloaked with determination or willpower over something.

 

[V]

Sparda himself proves that you don't have to be human to be extremely powerful and determined. He is considered the most powerful of all demons, given the reverence and dislike with which other greater demons address or speak of him.

But, it's implied that Dante is even more powerful than Sparda. I assume because eventually he grows equal in power and potential to Sparda, (thus no human physical weaknesses) but has the quality of a human mind and upbringing. Power-wise it means nothing to possess that human part, but overall it only adds to his abilities, rather than taking them away. So, he has a little of 'something more' to him than Sparda had.

But in terms of needing power to protect yourself and others, as Vergil wants, you don't need that human side especially, surely. Particularly as a young devil, which is not fully matured and gained all of its powers yet.

 

[D-Sparda]

But, it's implied that Dante is even more powerful than Sparda. I assume because eventually he grows equal in power and potential to Sparda, (thus no human physical weaknesses) but has the quality of a human mind and upbringing. Power-wise it means nothing to possess that human part, but overall it only adds to his abilities, rather than taking them away. So, he has a little of 'something more' to him than Sparda had.

Those who implied that the red son of Sparda has surpass him, don't know what they're talking about.

Sparda can erase the reason of existence from demons by just taking their names. He can summon an enormous spectral dragon that can inflict pain to Mundus(Dante's weapons doesn't make him flinch). Sparda was the General of the Netherworld's army. In my basic knowledge of that grade, I think you need a tactical mind to command an army. He even have basic fire balls. His demon form's aura is on a superior level(as shown in DMC3, when Arkham took his appearence) than Dante's devil trigger aura. He is a master sealer, like it was his hobby. Lastly, 2000+ years of experiences at the art of combat(I have a conter-argument for that, but I bet you will already find it).

Dante has super strenght, super speed, exceptional healing factor and Devil Trigger. All of this inheritated by his father.

That yongster has a long road ahead before he can surpass his wise old man.