JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
Okay,the only DMC's in the series that have a great story and linked.
Please tell me how the hell DMC 3 and DMC 1 barely links?
Please tell me how the hell DMC 3 and DMC 1 barely links?
DMC 3 and DMC 1 barely links.
- Thread starter JohnKasarinlan
- Start date
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
It's not "barely" linked. It just isn't 100% linked as it appears to be.
To clarify, certain events, phrases and stuff said and done in DMC1 deny aspects of DMC3. Of course with an open mind and a bit of will, we can ignore those stuff, but they are still there.
Let's start with some easy ones. Less important to the story and then move on to the plot stuff.
First, there is no Rebellion. Dante always used the Force Edge. It is implied that Sparda left the Force Edge as a memento and there is no mention of Rebellion ever. Rebellion is just a sword that DMC2 guys created. Even in DMC2, Rebellion's description reads: "A standard sword that Dante uses". No mention of Sparda or it having a true form or anything like that. They made it Dante's main weapon in DMC3 because they created a whole new plot-story about the Force Edge being locked in the demon world along with Sparda's power and Dante had to use something instead of Force Edge. There's not even a mention of Rebellion ever. At least Sparda does have Yamato in the game so at least that's where Vergil's sword came from. Even in the DMC1 Novel (canon at the time DMC1 was made) had Dante use the Force Edge. And even after the end of the game he uses Alastor instead.
Second, the Perfect Amulet. The Amulet was originally like that. Perfect. Whole. Also it had only one color. Silver. However, DMC3 designers made Vergil's gold. Pointless. But also irrelevant.
Third. Vergil. Dante in DMC1 had not seen Vergil since they were kids. Trish says so: "you're the man who lost a mother and a brother to evil 20 years ago?". In that attack, Dante thought that Vergil died. Even when Nelo Angelo removed his helmet, Dante didn't recognize him. And the argument that Vergil's face there is corrupted is not very strong. He's more easily identifiable than how he appears in the DMC3 corrupted costume. Basically he only has red eyes and a different skin color, like he's extra pale. If Dante had met an adult Vergil, then he would at least take some hints. Also, Nelo Angelo uses mainly Vergil's attacks. Excluding simple stuff like Stinger and Helm Breaker that both of the twins use, he even has his Summoned Swords. Still Dante didn't get a clue. And even when Nelo Angelo died (?) Dante only realized who he was because of the amulet. And even then, the only memories that resurfaced are times where they are both children. After the super memorable goodbye they shared in DMC3 (Dante even kept the glove that Vergil slashed) he definitely would have thought something about Vergil. Yet even when DMC3 starts Dante casually remarks that it's only been a year since they last met. So Dante knew that Vergil survived even before the whole DMC3 concept.
Despite how I love Vergil, I always thought of him as a major plot-hole. They could try and make it a bit better, like Dante being surprised by Vergil's appearance. But a stranger walks into his shop, offers an invitation from his brother, and Dante is all like "yeah so?".
All of those stuff aren't like the most important things in the story or anything. But it gives me the impression that DMC3 guys didn't even try to use what was already said in DMC1. Make the amulet silver, have Dante use Force Edge and instead of it make something else - a monument or something - that supposedly holds Sparda's poweer. Arkham never used Force Edge in a fight after all. As for Vergil's last battle, most of his Force Edge moves could easily be done with Yamato as well. Even his basic Force Edge combo has Yamato moves. And his most powerful attack is that Ultimate Judgement Cut. So yeah, no need for him to have it. Just add to Yamato moves. And lastly make it so that either Dante never realized who Vergil was (even in the DMC1 novel he at least covers his face) or something that will support DMC1 story wholeheartedly. Aftter doing the fine touches of adding Mundus at the end and all, how could they destroy the whole thing by small stuff like Dante knowing forever about Vergil.
It makes him a bit dense in DMC1, not realizing who Nelo Angelo was.
To clarify, certain events, phrases and stuff said and done in DMC1 deny aspects of DMC3. Of course with an open mind and a bit of will, we can ignore those stuff, but they are still there.
Let's start with some easy ones. Less important to the story and then move on to the plot stuff.
First, there is no Rebellion. Dante always used the Force Edge. It is implied that Sparda left the Force Edge as a memento and there is no mention of Rebellion ever. Rebellion is just a sword that DMC2 guys created. Even in DMC2, Rebellion's description reads: "A standard sword that Dante uses". No mention of Sparda or it having a true form or anything like that. They made it Dante's main weapon in DMC3 because they created a whole new plot-story about the Force Edge being locked in the demon world along with Sparda's power and Dante had to use something instead of Force Edge. There's not even a mention of Rebellion ever. At least Sparda does have Yamato in the game so at least that's where Vergil's sword came from. Even in the DMC1 Novel (canon at the time DMC1 was made) had Dante use the Force Edge. And even after the end of the game he uses Alastor instead.
Second, the Perfect Amulet. The Amulet was originally like that. Perfect. Whole. Also it had only one color. Silver. However, DMC3 designers made Vergil's gold. Pointless. But also irrelevant.
Third. Vergil. Dante in DMC1 had not seen Vergil since they were kids. Trish says so: "you're the man who lost a mother and a brother to evil 20 years ago?". In that attack, Dante thought that Vergil died. Even when Nelo Angelo removed his helmet, Dante didn't recognize him. And the argument that Vergil's face there is corrupted is not very strong. He's more easily identifiable than how he appears in the DMC3 corrupted costume. Basically he only has red eyes and a different skin color, like he's extra pale. If Dante had met an adult Vergil, then he would at least take some hints. Also, Nelo Angelo uses mainly Vergil's attacks. Excluding simple stuff like Stinger and Helm Breaker that both of the twins use, he even has his Summoned Swords. Still Dante didn't get a clue. And even when Nelo Angelo died (?) Dante only realized who he was because of the amulet. And even then, the only memories that resurfaced are times where they are both children. After the super memorable goodbye they shared in DMC3 (Dante even kept the glove that Vergil slashed) he definitely would have thought something about Vergil. Yet even when DMC3 starts Dante casually remarks that it's only been a year since they last met. So Dante knew that Vergil survived even before the whole DMC3 concept.
Despite how I love Vergil, I always thought of him as a major plot-hole. They could try and make it a bit better, like Dante being surprised by Vergil's appearance. But a stranger walks into his shop, offers an invitation from his brother, and Dante is all like "yeah so?".
All of those stuff aren't like the most important things in the story or anything. But it gives me the impression that DMC3 guys didn't even try to use what was already said in DMC1. Make the amulet silver, have Dante use Force Edge and instead of it make something else - a monument or something - that supposedly holds Sparda's poweer. Arkham never used Force Edge in a fight after all. As for Vergil's last battle, most of his Force Edge moves could easily be done with Yamato as well. Even his basic Force Edge combo has Yamato moves. And his most powerful attack is that Ultimate Judgement Cut. So yeah, no need for him to have it. Just add to Yamato moves. And lastly make it so that either Dante never realized who Vergil was (even in the DMC1 novel he at least covers his face) or something that will support DMC1 story wholeheartedly. Aftter doing the fine touches of adding Mundus at the end and all, how could they destroy the whole thing by small stuff like Dante knowing forever about Vergil.
It makes him a bit dense in DMC1, not realizing who Nelo Angelo was.
JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
I guess i understand now.
Devil may cry franchise story is really a mess.
Devil may cry franchise story is really a mess.
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
Well yeah. DMC1 was already a complete story with nothing much to add for it. I mean Dante defeated the most powerful devil ever, making him the most powerful being in his world. He also completed his heart's desire, to take revenge for the death of his mother.
It's no wonder that in DMC2 and DMC4 he doesn't even try. He not only is incredibly powerful, but he's not really motivated anymore. He kills demons because they're evil, therefore he's doing a good thing but it's not like they can ever threaten him anymore, or that he has to hurry or anything.
That's why they tried to present us with a different hero (Nero) who's weaker and has a different story and view of the world. Though for one reason or another, he didn't turn out awesome enough to completely replace Dante so in that regard he failed.
That's probably the reason we're getting the reboot now. Not only we have a new Dante that just starts his story, with his own goals and his own reasons and powers, with new enemies, but since it's actually the first game chronologically in this series, they can make it easier for it to have actual sequels afterwards, unlike the complete DMC1 who left nothing unanswered for a sequel.
It's no wonder that in DMC2 and DMC4 he doesn't even try. He not only is incredibly powerful, but he's not really motivated anymore. He kills demons because they're evil, therefore he's doing a good thing but it's not like they can ever threaten him anymore, or that he has to hurry or anything.
That's why they tried to present us with a different hero (Nero) who's weaker and has a different story and view of the world. Though for one reason or another, he didn't turn out awesome enough to completely replace Dante so in that regard he failed.
That's probably the reason we're getting the reboot now. Not only we have a new Dante that just starts his story, with his own goals and his own reasons and powers, with new enemies, but since it's actually the first game chronologically in this series, they can make it easier for it to have actual sequels afterwards, unlike the complete DMC1 who left nothing unanswered for a sequel.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
It's because DMC3 was talking about Dante's life before he became who he was in DMC1. It also tells how Vergil became Nelo Angelo, along with how Dante came across Sparda's sword. However DMC3 Isn't really canon since it wasn't created by the "original" DMC creator.
Sparda's rejected son
For Edenoi!
The DMC series is a clear example of Capcom's lack of a coherent and continuances story telling. Its also a clear example of what happens when you create a story on the fly without further thought. But u can't help but LOVE the DMC series!! 
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
It also shows their lack of imagination. Couldn't like Dante take Trish and travel to a different world to liberate it from the devils there or something? We never asked the impossible. They even made Dante do so in Shin Megami Tensei.
But yeah. Still love it.
But yeah. Still love it.
JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
Why does this have to happened to my favorite game.....Why?Why of all games?
If the reboot fails,Bye bye dante and bye bye vergil.
If the reboot fails,Bye bye dante and bye bye vergil.
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
Well, it's too early for despair yet. Who knows what the future will bring..
JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
So far,the reboot is probably the only hope.
Sparda's rejected son
For Edenoi!
If your sadden over DMC's wacky story line the Mega Man series will cause you to commit suicide lol. Capcom are horrible at creating stories with proper cannon.
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
And let's not forget what happens to their favorite kid. Street Fighter. Almost none of them follows the other lol.
DragonMaster2010
Don't Let the Fall of America be Your Fall
Did Street fighter even follow a story?
Sparda's rejected son
For Edenoi!
SF had a storyline other than Ryu fighting Akuma?! I guess my post proves your point lol.
JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
The only games i like in the megaman series are X5 and X6
darkslayer13
Enma Katana no Kami
No DMC3 is 100% canon. Changing director doesn't take away Capcom's right to decide the events of their own games.
JohnKasarinlan
"Plough the lilies"
I lol'd.So basically you're saying just because the original creator doesn't make the sequel,that doesn't count as canon?
Take a look at god of war.
The original creator was david jaffe but he doesn't have anything to do with god of war 2 and god of war 3.
So that means god of war 2 and god of war 3 is not really canon at all?
Vergilissexy
Wesker's #1 fan!
Well, like you said it was implied, but not necessarily stated, when something is implied and not stated as a fact
it leaves room open for new ideas.
Ok, I agree that it being called a standered weapon is something to be considered. But I think the way they added Rebellion and turned Force Edge into the main sword wass done well. DMC3 explains how he got it and why he was able to use it with the amulets.
Why they made his amulet gold I have no clue, I agree with this point.
Lets say Trish was really just another person who had heard the story of Sparda as she was pretending to be. How was she suppose to know that Vergil and Dante met up a few years before. Trish had been playing dumb the whole time so why would she mention that?
When Nelo showed his face, Dante's reaction wasn't shown, the battle began right after that, who knows what he might have been thinking about, but it's not like he could have stopped him while he was attacking him and start asking questions.
Well, it's like what I told you when we were chatting. It was just one memory, it would have been too time consuming to do more than one, so they just did a childhood one, it doesn't really disprove that they knew each other as teens.
He can't possibly be a bigger plot hole than Nero. XD At least Vergil existed in the first game.
Yes, I agree with this.
Yes, I agree with this too. But you gotta remember that Dante kinda has a "yeah so" attitude about everything. And if my dear identical twin was startin' stuff with me and being a douche after I thought he was dead for like 10 years I would probably be reluctant to show joy towards a meeting with him as well.
Nothing but the best from Capcom.
I dunno, dispite it's role in DMC1 I think it's final peice does it justice. I like what they did with Force Edge, I think it fits.
Btw, I would figure that the things they changed we're simply retcons so DMC1 and 3 are very much linked. In video games it seems that the facts usually lye within the latest addition.
*Ring, ring, ring* Ahem, hello? What's that? DMC was a success?! People want a sequel!? We can still make money off this game?!
Employee: Ummm sir we kinda already closed the story.
Bulls*hit! This is fiction dammit make something happen! Dante shall be our new mascot!
Hehe, in all seriousness though, as long as DMC is fiction very much can be done with the story and done well if they could just find a good story writer. Even if Dante reaches SS4. ^_^
Teimurazor
Peregrine Falcon
Well, I think the medallion color is irrevelant, like it's not such a big detail overall, or you can think that it changed color when it became a perfect amulet.
Tony_Redgrave
TimeLord Detective
Υοu can think ways to accept anything. The point is that you shouldn't have to.