Framerate question :)

[KenKen]

Quick question for you guys:

Would you rather have had this game on a fighting game engine (like MT Framework or NetherRealm's version of Unreal) and gotten 60 fps, or would you rather have any other sort of engine and run at 30?

Mind you, each engine has its strengths and weaknesses.

I doubt a fighting game-type engine could handle the world of DmC (or any environment that could compete with Bayonetta, Darksiders, and God of War) in real time without graphical slowdowns and/or annoying load times. So the adventure portion of this game would be functional, just not so exciting-looking.

At the same time, 30 frames per second is a huge sacrifice; mostly because a huge chunk of the fanbase plays DMC for its fighting game sensibilities, timing each move to the frame. These qualities aren't very pronounced in a game such as this where the environment and the setpieces are also very important aspects of the gameplay.

And honestly, if there's actually an engine that can render interesting backdrops AND dish out 60 fps on both the 360 and the PS3, tell me. I'd rather not be in the dark here.

also it's my first thread on the forums, so go easy on me pretty please.

 

[JohnKasarinlan]

I prefer 60fps.

 

[Chaos Raiden]

60 fps, because it allows more stylish high-speed action to be played in the game. MT Framework engine is so far one of the best game engines that handle 60 fps like in Devil May Cry 4, and the upcoming Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance also uses a game engine that allows 60 fps.

My main concern with Unreal Engine is that certain technical issues always pop out in most Unreal Engine 3 games that I have ever played, such as screen tearing. I just only hope that Ninja Theory use the Unreal Engine 3 to the max to allow smooth performance for DmC: Devil May Cry for both PS3 and Xbox 360.

 

[ZeroLove]

As long it looks and feels good and satisfying, I don't really care. Good games AND bad games have been made with both types of engines. It all depends on the usage of the engine.

 

[ReRave]

I'll try to dig up an old post of mine, describing the pros & cons of the diverent ratios.

Edit: Found it!

This is just a small piece of my mind about UE3 and why it isn't inherently bad.

The engine works perfectly fluid with a lot of moving objects on-screen, because it has an immense processing capacity but it can only perform at a framerate of 30 FPS (stable, no drops). Framework did the trick with 60 FPS, but with considerably less need of processing power, seeing that all the levels were preloaded, you had warp-doors, loading screens before cutscenes, loading screens before everything.

Bottom line: NT uses UE3, because with it they can implement:
- A moving environment
- DMC-style combat
- Fluid level transition/ Gameplay-Cinematic transition
- shorter loading screens, if any
That's what it does without crashing.

It does everything better, except for the frames, that you can't even see with the bare eye. Whether Dante swings his sword using 12 frames or 6 is completely out of my interest for as long as the combat looks equally good (which it does up to now. To all those who think they can see the difference in framerate: LIAR.).

Not trying to bash your post, I just thought, this might need a further explanation to clear up the reasons for the choices NT made.

Now, why am I getting upset over this, you might ask.
Great question: the real deal behind me venting my endless anger over this seemingly important topic is, that the framerate-issue is not an issue. People want fluidity? Good for you, UE3 does that, it's just less frames inbetween.
The real issue should be: can UE3 handle the game without framedrops, or will it all end in a huge slowmo-storm?
My answer to that are the trailers until now.
If anyone in here can honestly say, that the difference in frames per second makes the difference between a great action game and a flop royale, then I'd have to ask him/her/it to get the out of the internet for as long as I don't have the tracking software to find you.

Mind you, this is my opinion, backed up with nicely formulated facts.

 

[Tiran]

I can tell the difference between 30 frames per second and 60...

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

...But my reaction time is not one thirtieth of a second and certainly not one sixtieth of one. So, as far as reflexes go, frame rate doesn't matter to me. I prefer Sixty frames per second just for the smoother looks though.

 

[KenKen]

Chaos Raiden:
I just looked it up.
MGR:R will run at sixty fps! Extremely impressive seeing how Platinum Games' last hack-and-slash ran around 46 (28 on the PS3) and was still the best action title ever.

ReRave:
WARP DOORS! I was looking for a name for those strange transition things.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

I prefer 60 fps because that allows me to be fast and wail on my opponent easier

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I honestly could care less. I can't even detect a difference between frame rates most of the time. I can't see differences between the old DMC games and God of War or Castlevania: Lords of Shadow for example.

 

[wallenb]

It seems like NT is trying to make DmC look as close to the past DMC game as possible in the combat area. But with the rest of the game i think UR3 will make the game stand out with all the rest of the areas of the game.
Im sure telling people they can't see the difference in frames is pretty accurate, except your asking people on a DMC forum who can tell the difference just by looking at it. Yes, 60 frames make the character move smoother, but everything else is pretty bland and motionless. Look at Batman AC. Where ever you look, something is happening, whether you can tell or not. Maybe its the wind blowing trash around, lights flickering inside of buildings, basically things your not supposed to notice because the atmosphere was made to look gritty and corrupted. I enjoy atmosphere. My 62' Flat screen loves atmosphere. My surround sound system loves atmosphere. If i wanted to just hack and slash away, i wouldn't be paying 60 dollars again, there needs to be something that can cater to all my crap i put into my video game addiction.

 

[ReRave]

I can tell the difference between 30 frames per second and 60...

http://www.boallen.com/fps-compare.html

...But my reaction time is not one thirtieth of a second and certainly not one sixtieth of one. So, as far as reflexes go, frame rate doesn't matter to me. I prefer Sixty frames per second just for the smoother looks though.

Back then I also had to excuse for misformulating:
What I mean when I ask "Can you see the difference" is actually: "Does it bother you?". Yes, the jumping cubes were posted more than once and I can see it, too, but as you said: You can't react in 1/30 of a second, so everything above 10 fps is basically optics and not gameplay. I am content with 30 fps. I really am.
Input lag and such are all object of processing power, which is, mind you, closely linked to the engines capabilities, but we are in no position to judge this yet.

 

[Xeroxis]

The faster the framerate, the smoother it is, so I prefer.....
probably 180 Fps....
(most likely dosent exist yet...)

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

The faster the framerate, the smoother it is, so I prefer.....
probably 180 Fps....
(most likely dosent exist yet...)

If it did, I don't think the human eye would be able to detect the difference. We can only detect differences within the first 100 frames. Now, compare that to a bird, which can see in thousands of frames per second... If we had bird eyes, then yeah, 180 FPS would be viable.

 

[ReRave]

The faster the framerate, the smoother it is, so I prefer.....
probably 180 Fps....
(most likely dosent exist yet...)

it caps out anyways.

 

[Xeroxis]

it caps out anyways.

If it did, I don't think the human eye would be able to detect the difference. We can only detect differences within the first 100 frames. Now, compare that to a bird, which can see in thousands of frames per second... If we had bird eyes, then yeah, 180 FPS would be viable.

whoa, wait......
Am I reading this right?
People actually think im being serious about this?!
hmm... maybe I should have emphisied a little better....

Does this send a better message?...

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

whoa, wait......
Am I reading this right?
People actually think im being serious about this?!
hmm... maybe I should have emphisied a little better....

Does this send a better message?...

Oh I knew you weren't being serious. I just thought I would pretend that I was seriously answering your question so you'd reveal it was a joke to the rest of the forums.

Yeah, there's a Xanatos Gambit for ya.

 

[Xeroxis]

Oh I knew you weren't being serious. I just thought I would pretend that I was seriously answering your question so you'd reveal it was a joke to the rest of the forums.

Yeah, there's a Xanatos Gambit for ya.

Oh!.... your good!

 

[Vezild]

I couldn't care less because I don't do things with twitch-like reflexes. If the enemy attacks at 2 frames per second and another attacks me at 6 frames for second, I wouldn't care. I'll be at the other side of the arena before the AI even decided to attack.
I play Devil May Cry like a strategic coward, not a fighting game junkie. So framerate won't matter to me as long as it's at a reasonable speed.

 

[wallenb]

I couldn't care less because I don't do things with twitch-like reflexes. If the enemy attacks at 2 frames per second and another attacks me at 6 frames for second, I wouldn't care. I'll be at the other side of the arena before the AI even decided to attack.
I play Devil May Cry like a strategic coward, not a fighting game junkie. So framerate won't matter to me as long as it's at a reasonable speed.

I wonder how your strategy is going to be when enemies surround you and the world is trying to crush you.

 

[Vezild]

I wonder how your strategy is going to be when enemies surround you and the world is trying to crush you.

Jump. That's what I always do in Devil May Cry. Jump over an enemy, stomp on a head, use a stinger to tell one to gtfo, and start attacking from the outside. If I'm getting crushed by a wall, well why am I going to let a wall crush me just for some extra style points? Screw that! xD