who in here wants DmC dodging to stay?

[Innsmouth]

Yeah, Erix rulez LOL

Yeah. Dat hardest enemy in game xD

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Except for the whole, y'know, combo breaking thing Dreks can do that requires actual skill to avoid and counter. He has an easy approach, but that means literally nothing, because damn near every enemy across all the games have an easy approach. It's staying in your combo that becomes the problem, unless you have the applicable skill and knowledge got avoid their own counters.

And let's not mince words here, nearly all of the enemies in DMC games are friggin' punching bags with varying degrees of weight once you land that first hit. Don't act as if one is more or less special.

 

[Innsmouth]

I'd like to see somebody standing and punching blitz in the face like it was nothing while not moving one inch. (let me give you a hint, it doesn't work because you'll be dead after few secs, since they demanding constant dodging, jumping or anything to avoid damage. Drekavaks are a joke. Despite many claim they are hardest enemy in the game., they are completely helpless and don't have single chance against eryx unless there are 2 of them and you need to look out for 2 sides. (even thn simple camera spin can get rid of second one and let first one easily be killed). It's simple as that. Each of hardest enemies before (except DMC2) require some amount of skill and dodging. In Dreamrunners case they require none.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Congrats, you described one of the few enemies that falls within the exemption of when I said "nearly all the enemies in DMC," but that doesn't debunk what I said, either.

And you're still ignoring the whole Drekevac and dreamrunners can break you out of a combo and counter.

 

[Innsmouth]

Actually they can't. IF you don't try to dodge, there is nothing they can do. You don't even need combo them to kill them flawlessly. Tactics with Eryx is 100% bulletproof and they are completely helpless. And I can list you many DMC enemies that won't allow you to pass with simple standing and pulling charge moves. Shadows, Blitzes, Fallen, Abysses, Nobody, Kyklops. I can go on and on. Seriously, I know you try to prove that DmC isn't different in that case than others, but it is. If there is a flaw, you can't neglect it as much as you want to. Mature thing is to acknowledge it and move on.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

What do you mean they can't?! You parry them with the initial hit, which stuns them, but then the subsequent hits on the uppercut set them to a normal hitstun, which they can totally break out of. I've had it where they countered the last hit of the uppercut, preventing any actual lead into an aerial combo. Actually, the more you do that one tactic, I believe they actually start countering you earlier. Not to mention this is winning you pretty much no grand Style points, which are supposed to be such an oh so precious part of a DMC's combat.

And if you don't do uppercut but just a normal punch? Well, he's still only stunned until you smack him again, where he can just block and hop right out of your combo, or parry - and he doesn't stay stunned nearly as long as the other enemies.

And you're just listing off the gimmick enemies you don't fight nearly as often as all the other grunts. They exist to break up the monotony of having cleaved through waves of grunts. Their approaches and tactics are different, but otherwise nearly all the enemies still turn into sandbags once you get them with the first strike. Dreamrunners require a different approach than just running in blindly, and must be handled differently than a stygian because of their ability to counter. Hey! That sound a lot like the gimmick enemies in the other games, like the Blitz, since you can't approach nor consistently attack one with the same zeal you would as a common scarecrow.

Mind you, I'm not saying that a dreamrunner is exactly like a Blitz, but they are in the same vain as those gimmicky, monotony-breaking, sorta end-of-the-wave boss-like enemies.

 

[Chancey289]

Those demons can block nearly all of Dante's attacks and counter them. They even throw projectiles back at you.

Eryx can only break the dreamrunners and drekavac's guard if fully charged. Other than that, you have to really move around and use other tactics to get him out of those battle stances to inflict damage.

 

[Innsmouth]

Nobody's are normal grunts. you encounter plenty of them and you still can't approach them with mindless buttonmashing. Same goes for Fetishes or Chimeras.

Dreamrunners can easily be locked into damage situation and if you using normal charged hit from Eryx will pose no danger. Basically in normal combat, without teleport exploit they are hugely nerfed versions of DMC3 Vergil, because they extremely vulnerable to charged gauntlet moves.

And if you exploit teleport move, you basically charge your normal fist move, and when you see their appearing before you. That's sends them flying backwards and stuns them at the same time, allowing either A) riskier air combo B) less riskier short combo with charged punches before going back from them and luring them into teleport move (which they always do). Or if you feeling lazy you can just leave them be before they gain composure again, which makes them pull teleporting move again and you repeat pattern till they dead, making them essentially one-button enemies even on dmd (which i already tested).

As for style metter, thanks to glorified DmC style system, you gain enough style points with charged moves and short combos, since the higher damage output the higher point count, and pulling fully charged erys moves in between makes it easy.

As such only 2 things that CAN make them dangerous are Witches (which I think happens twice in the game) or that new mode where you always need to keep SSS rank at top.
So yeah, there is something deeply wrong with telegraphing moves, when strongest enemy in the game becomes one-button enemy when you realize how obvious his moves are.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Just thought I would put my head in here and remind people that debates arent an excuse to take things to a personal level with other members and for everyone to remain civil and respectful towards each others thoughts and views.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

For one thing, Nobodies aren't encountered until the last levels of the game, and are not actually encountered all that often unless you're specifically revisiting old areas you don't need to. They may populate several different places in the closing hours of the game, but you don't encounter too many of them if you're actually looking to progress through the final areas...and aren't getting lost. I remember only ever encountering like four or five tops from the Underworld's entrance to Mundus' throneroom.

Secondly, if your tactic is to keep using the same move over and over, then you're not gonna get any style points, because for as lenient as the system is with new modifiers, you still don't get jack for Style on the third repetition onward - of any move, while sitting around and waiting for a dreamrunner to 'port so you can perform this specific tactic pretty much ensures that your current Style grade has decayed to nothing, so if you got a C by doing that twice, congrats, you're going to be sitting at a C the entire rest of the fight if you keep doing that same thing - it's all a big floppy waste of time. And in a game series that is more about looking cool while killing enemies, rather than just killing them, why bother with such a boring tactic...? If you're just going through the game to get through it, sure fine whatever, but it's not conducive to what a Devil May Cry game is supposed to be played in the end. It's like how you can go through most of the enemies in all the games by just spamming Stinger if you want. It'll surely route a lot of enemies, but are you really having as much fun with the game by not tapping into any of the potential there? Not to mention that it doesn't work on everything, so you'll be up a particular creek without a paddle sooner or later.

Plus, trying to do a charged Eryx combo on a dreamrunner doesn't work all that well, because after that first hit, they are in normal hitstun and will jump out at the first small window you take to charge. Hell, the normal stygians on any difficulty above normal mode will block a combo string half the time if you try to do a pause combo like Death Coil.

I don't think you've done nearly as much research into these enemies man as you're trying to let on. It seems like you just heard about/did one thing that can be done and based all your assumptions around it :/

And a lot of the toughest enemies in DMC games become rather simple once you figure out the approach: Faust and Mephisto become completely unthreatening when you snatch/shotgun their cloaks off, Blitz is fairly easy to take out after dropping it's shield, which is fairly easy itself if this tutorial is to be believed >.>

 

[Innsmouth]

For one thing, Nobodies aren't encountered until the last levels of the game, and are not actually encountered all that often unless you're specifically revisiting old areas you don't need to. They may populate several different places in the closing hours of the game, but you don't encounter too many of them if you're actually looking to progress through the final areas...and aren't getting lost. I remember only ever encountering like four or five tops from the Underworld's entrance to Mundus' throneroom.

Secondly, if your tactic is to keep using the same move over and over, then you're not gonna get any style points, because for as lenient as the system is with new modifiers, you still don't get jack for Style on the third repetition onward - of any move, while sitting around and waiting for a dreamrunner to 'port so you can perform this specific tactic pretty much ensures that your current Style grade has decayed to nothing, so if you got a C by doing that twice, congrats, you're going to be sitting at a C the entire rest of the fight if you keep doing that same thing - it's all a big floppy waste of time. And in a game series that is more about looking cool while killing enemies, rather than just killing them, why bother with such a boring tactic...? If you're just going through the game to get through it, sure fine whatever, but it's not conducive to what a Devil May Cry game is supposed to be played in the end. It's like how you can go through most of the enemies in all the games by just spamming Stinger if you want. It'll surely route a lot of enemies, but are you really having as much fun with the game by not tapping into any of the potential there? Not to mention that it doesn't work on everything, so you'll be up a particular creek without a paddle sooner or later.

Plus, trying to do a charged Eryx combo on a dreamrunner doesn't work all that well, because after that first hit, they are in normal hitstun and will jump out at the first small window you take to charge. Hell, the normal stygians on any difficulty above normal mode will block a combo string half the time if you try to do a pause combo like Death Coil.

I don't think you've done nearly as much research into these enemies man as you're trying to let on. It seems like you just heard about/did one thing that can be done and based all your assumptions around it :/

And a lot of the toughest enemies in DMC games become rather simple once you figure out the approach: Faust and Mephisto become completely unthreatening when you snatch/shotgun their cloaks off, Blitz is fairly easy to take out after dropping it's shield, which is fairly easy itself if this tutorial is to be believed >.>

If you encountered so little nobodies, you apparently never played beyond normal and basically made speedrun, because once you enter hell levels corridors are swarming with them on way there and back. Hell, after picking artefact you encounter like 4-5 of them at the same time on DMD.

Well now we hit major point. DMC was more than JUST look cool. It was getting through challenging areas while being good at this, while DmC is only about looking cool and nothing more. You can claim it boring tactics, but i got B ranking on it more thn once, and without much effort, because as long as you varying combos between punches it be more thn enough to get around lenient DmC system. Yeah it may be boring to you, but well I got around that "challenging" game on DMD in one day and didn't stuck single time. It's fun part: people putting RESEARCH where it doesn't needed. all this uppercutting tyrants and other thing like that are just waste of time and any difficulty can be overcome with straightforward approach. Yeah I can play with my hands bound behind my back but does it says much about difficulty? nup. DmC has lowest AI since DMC2. And no. Drekkavaks can't break this tactics. all their combo blocking doesn'T worth a thing when you don't blindly tries to pull this combos.

And bost mephisto, faustes etc, require movement and knowledge of gameplay, while drekavaks doesn't require it. As for Blitzes yes, if you manage to stun lock him, with precise timing you can do it easy (like any game without exception can be easy when you can do timing right) . Drekavaks can be easily defeated even by those who never bothered with action games and without any effort. Also pay attention that once down 1/5 health Blitzes enter rage mode, which kills you on one hit starting with DMD.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

So, first you said that simply countering them with a charged punch over and over as they teleport is enough to make short work of them, but then when I say that won't garner Style, you suddenly say that if you vary your moves you'll get more Style. That goes against what you were just saying before.

It also contradicts you saying that all you have to do is charged punch counter them to win, and they can't combo break you if you only do that one specific thing - and yet you still need to vary your combos in order to get some decent Style? I thought there wasn't any need for combos of any kind...? Sure the tactic will totally work to get you past them with some semblance of ease, but you can't get Style without comboing, that's just how the game works.

Drekavaks can be easily defeated even by those who never bothered with action games and without any effort.

And this, this is just a gross overstatement.

------------------

Gawd I'm tired of doing this garbage. I'm outtie.

 

[Innsmouth]

So, first you said that simply countering them with a charged punch over and over as they teleport is enough to make short work of them, but then when I say that won't garner Style, you suddenly say that if you vary your moves you'll get more Style. That goes against what you were just saying before.

It also contradicts you saying that all you have to do is charged punch counter them to win, and they can't combo break you if you only do that one specific thing - and yet you still need to vary your combos in order to get some decent Style? I thought there wasn't any need for combos of any kind...? Sure the tactic will totally work to get you past them with some semblance of ease, but you can't get Style without comboing, that's just how the game works.



And this, this is just a gross overstatement.

You clearly didn't read what I explained about safe way, about pulling short combos between charged punches, so why bother arguing if you don't want to hear what you don't like? It worked as a cake. I got my SSS rankings, platted game in 3 days and sold it afterwards. So any argument "but they can" is pretty irrelevant, since from my own experience, not from some youtube videos, I know they can't.
And not this is no overstatement, if they use this tactics. Seriously, I sometimes have feeling. that you tries to prove me something by showing most ineffectual way of playing to support your thought that this game on par with older titles.

 

[Gbraga]

It depends on the control system, they both serve each game perfectly (I'd argue that 2 dodge buttons is a waste, but you can just remap the controls).

I wonder how it'll work in the DE using lock-on. Maybe Bayo style controls for the right bumpers and angel and demon mode for L1 and L2?

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It depends on the control system, they both serve each game perfectly (I'd argue that 2 dodge buttons is a waste, but you can just remap the controls).

I wonder how it'll work in the DE using lock-on. Maybe Bayo style controls for the right bumpers and angel and demon mode for L1 and L2?

The manual lock is a new configuration option, so you set it to a button when making your control scheme, so it's really up to how you wanna set it up. I'm gonna have a lot of fun just testing out new configurations

 

[Demi-fiend]

I'm gonna have a lot of fun just testing out new configurations

I'm just gonna have manual toggle-lock so that I can use the old control scheme more easily. Hold-lock is kinda not fun after a while.

 

[Dominus]

Actually one of my favorite dodge mechanics that overloads the use of a button is in the Ninja Gaiden games , where R1 is block, but if you hold it and press a direction you roll/dodge. That way you don't need two separate buttons for block and dodge. Obviously DMC isn't designed around this, so if a DMC5 is made they'll probably add a dedicated dodge button and move Devil Trigger to L3 + R3. But I really like mechanics in games that overload the use of a button in a smart way so they control scheme isn't wasted, and allows more buttons open for newer mechanics...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I always liked that too. Another decent alternative was what Dissidia did, where R was guard, but if you push R and jump at the same time while moving you would dodge, so if guard is on a shoulder button, that's a decent option. Otherewise that was also the Kingdom Hearts-style defensive options. It was very crazy in Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix where you press Square while stationary to guard, tap it while moving to do a short dodge roll on the ground, and hold the button while moving to do the evasive slide which you could do past edges to slide out into midair.