What can Capcom do to make a DMC5 a "true" mainstream hit.

[Innsmouth]

It's definitely more normal than anything anyone in the original ever wore, though. Both Dante and Vergil got their own style, but it's not all that outlandish if you ask me. I dunno where you live, but it's not that uncommon to see someone to walk around with a leather jacket, or to see someone with a mohawk, or with a fedora, or suit pants, or even white hair, and if you're ignoring that flappy part of Vergil's coat, that one looks pretty normal aswell. Actually, I think Vergil's clothes just look like some expensive designer stuff. If either of them were to walk around in real life like that, most people probanly wouldn't even take notice of them. But someone with a long cherry red trenchcoat? That'd make a few heads turn for sure.

I live in germany, and tbh, i never saw any men wearing long clothes, except for punks or cosplayers, and for expensive clothes, it's mostly suits here. but never as long or as decorated as vergil's one ,

 

[Sunaka Marién]

I live in germany, and tbh, i never saw any men wearing long clothes, except for punks or cosplayers, and for expensive clothes, it's mostly suits here. but never as long or as decorated as vergil's one ,

Waaaaaaaaaaaas? Hey, ich komm auch aus Deutschland ^^
Well, Dante does look a little like a punk, wouldn't you agree? So it matches. I dunno, but I do see a bunch of men waring long coats during winter (or in the case of metalheads, pretty much during the whole year).
It's true that it's mostly suits as far as expensive clothing goes, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other expensive clothes being worn aswell. As for Vergil's coat, during winter there was that one specific cut that looked pretty similar to Vergil's coat which I kept seeing. Just that it didn't have that long flappy part. Of course, those weren't as decorated as Vergil's either, but that skull print is a design that was generally rather wide-spread in clothing last year, so it wouldn't have stuck out that much on a coat anyway.
I dunno, maybe I just don't find their clothes to be all that weird because there are some rather peculiar looking people walking around where I live, that definitely stick out more than the Sparda twins *shrugs*

 

[Enigma]

It's definitely more normal than anything anyone in the original ever wore, though. Both Dante and Vergil got their own style, but it's not all that outlandish if you ask me. I dunno where you live, but it's not that uncommon to see someone to walk around with a leather jacket, or to see someone with a mohawk, or with a fedora, or suit pants, or even white hair, and if you're ignoring that flappy part of Vergil's coat, that one looks pretty normal aswell. Actually, I think Vergil's clothes just look like some expensive designer stuff. If either of them were to walk around in real life like that, most people probanly wouldn't even take notice of them. But someone with a long cherry red trenchcoat? That'd make a few heads turn for sure.

I find it quite odd, this obsession with how characters should look 'realistic' or 'proper'. When I play Bayonetta, at no point would I want her to start wearing normal clothing like what you see on the streets every day. I understand that new Dante lives in a different universe, and should look like he belongs there, but it doesn't explain why people want old Dante to look normal as well. I've never seen him as realistic - as someone you could find in real life - but then, that is the point. He's not supposed to look normal, and the world around him doesn't necessarily look normal either. If old Dante should look normal, shouldn't anime characters look normal too? Oh, that's right, people somehow don't hold anime to the same standards. I'm getting the feeling it's not about old Dante looking 'out of style', but that it's just about how some people think he doesn't look 'acceptable'. Some people don't like the way he looks, and they want to impose their will on others.
Anyway, old Dante is a character, he's meant to be sort of like a superhero, so of course you don't give him a white t-shirt and a boring old coat. It's so weird how people's minds work. I'm so glad old Dante might return, because I don't think I've had enough of him yet.

 

[Innsmouth]

Waaaaaaaaaaaas? Hey, ich komm auch aus Deutschland ^^
Well, Dante does look a little like a punk, wouldn't you agree? So it matches. I dunno, but I do see a bunch of men waring long coats during winter (or in the case of metalheads, pretty much during the whole year).
It's true that it's mostly suits as far as expensive clothing goes, but that doesn't mean that there aren't other expensive clothes being worn aswell. As for Vergil's coat, during winter there was that one specific cut that looked pretty similar to Vergil's coat which I kept seeing. Just that it didn't have that long flappy part. Of course, those weren't as decorated as Vergil's either, but that skull print is a design that was generally rather wide-spread in clothing last year, so it wouldn't have stuck out that much on a coat anyway.
I dunno, maybe I just don't find their clothes to be all that weird because there are some rather peculiar looking people walking around where I live, that definitely stick out more than the Sparda twins *shrugs*

Well, people generally dressing normal in city I live, But to be fair i saw coats similar not only to new, but to original Dante too on punks. (Hey i even saw Testament's clothes from GG on one of them). But let's be honest: punks aren't really normal people that you meet everyday...at least where i live. But overdecorated ornaments on Vergil's coat making it looks completely unrealistic.

 

[Sunaka Marién]

I find it quite odd, this obsession with how characters should look 'realistic' or 'proper'. When I play Bayonetta, at no point would I want her to start wearing normal clothing like what you see on the streets every day.

I've never really seen this 'obsession' you're talking about, so I'm not sure if it's actually a thing or not; I think it's just a matter of preference. I for example used to prefer anime-ish designs over realistic ones until a few years ago when my preferences in media in general shifted towards more western styled media. I guess it just so happens that a lot of people living in the west have a preference for styles with more western sensibilities, for various reasons I'd assume. I could also imagine that people simply find it easier to relate to realistic looking characters. I'm pretty sure no-one would want Bayo to be wearing normal clothes; if someone doen't like Bayo I doubt that they'd suddenly like it if they simply gave her differnet clothes. It's done in a specific style which some like and others don't.

I understand that new Dante lives in a different universe, and should look like he belongs there, but it doesn't explain why people want old Dante to look normal as well.

I never even heard anybody say that they'd want old Dante to look normal aswell :/ If anything then I've heard people say that his DMC4 outfit was just so weird that it stopped looking nice.

I've never seen him as realistic - as someone you could find in real life - but then, that is the point. He's not supposed to look normal, and the world around him doesn't necessarily look normal either.

That indeed is true. But again, matter of preference.

If old Dante should look normal, shouldn't anime characters look normal too? Oh, that's right, people somehow don't hold anime to the same standards.

I dunno but whenever the issue of Dante's looks turned up, people would always compare him to anime as far as I remember, so I'm not really getting what you want to say?

I'm getting the feeling it's not about old Dante looking 'out of style', but that it's just about how some people think he doesn't look 'acceptable'. Some people don't like the way he looks, and they want to impose their will on others.

Well, I personally don't remember anyone trying to impose their will on other on that matter; however I wouldn't disagree that some thought that DMC4 Dante didn't look 'acceptable', as the main complain I've heard about that design was that he just looked silly, while he looked stylish and cool in all his other iterations. Of course, this is a matter of opinions.

Anyway, old Dante is a character, he's meant to be sort of like a superhero, so of course you don't give him a white t-shirt and a boring old coat. It's so weird how people's minds work. I'm so glad old Dante might return, because I don't think I've had enough of him yet.

I think you're misinterpreting this whole thing a little. I honestly don't remember anyone ever saying that he didn't make sense in his own universe, because he obviously did. However, I for example felt like he his design in DMC4 didn't really fit him and his peronallity, as he used to have some wierd sort of class before, which I felt he was lacking in DMC4.

Also on a side note, did anyone safe that leaked picture and could send it to me? I missed out on it and now it's gone :<

Well, people generally dressing normal in city I live, But to be fair i saw coats similar not only to new, but to original Dante too on punks. (Hey i even saw Testament's clothes from GG on one of them). But let's be honest: punks aren't really normal people that you meet everyday...at least where i live. But overdecorated ornaments on Vergil's coat making it looks completely unrealistic.

Well, I see Punks on a daily basis where I live, so I dunno, they're pretty normal to me. I never saw any punk wear any long red coat though (o.o)
I don't think the ornaments on Vergil's coat are unrealistic per se, I wouldn't even be surprised to see something like that in a store someday, but maybe that's just a matter of opinion.

 

[Enigma]

- I've never really seen this 'obsession' you're talking about, so I'm not sure if it's actually a thing or not; I think it's just a matter of preference. I for example used to prefer anime-ish designs over realistic ones until a few years ago when my preferences in media in general shifted towards more western styles. I guess it just so happens that a lot of people living in the west prefer more western style sensibilities, for various reasons I'd assume. I could also imagine that people simply find it easier to relate to realistic looking characters.

- I never even heard anybody say that they's want old Dante to look normal aswell :/ If anything then I've heard people say that his DMC4 outfit was just so weird that it stopped looking nice.

- I dunno but whever the issue of Dante's looks turned up, people would always compare him to anime as far as I remember, so I'm notreally getting what you want to say?

- I think you're misinterpreting this whole thing a little. I honestly don't remember anyone ever saying that he didn't make sense in his own universe, because he obviously did. However, I for example felt like he his design in DMC4 didn't really fit him and his peronallity, as he used to have some wierd sort of class before, which I felt he was lacking in DMC4.

- I suppose so. But then, people need to broaden their horizons, I'd say. I like both western characters and Japanese characters, and I think that if they had grown up with more exposure to Japanese stuff, they'd appreciate old Dante's looks.

- Well, I've heard many people say they prefer new Dante's design, and I've heard many people in my direct environment diss the old Dante for the way he looked in every DMC. The Dante from DMC4 got a lot of flak for wearing cowboy boots and leather pants, but I don't really see why that's a bad thing. I mean, Dante is a character, not a real person, after all. He's not supposed to look realistic or 'normal'.
My best friend keeps joking about how 'gay and generic' old Dante is, which he just says to annoy me, but I think underneath his humor, he's also serious. I guess he somehow doesn't understand that old Dante is like a superhero - more like a character than a real person. I guess that might be typically 'western' of him.

- People don't usually rip on anime characters about their looks. But for some reason, they do when it comes to Dante. That's weird, because old Dante is kind of meant to be anime-like. It seems to me that they hold games to different standards than anime series. At least, this is the case with DMC. I think it may be just another case of 'DmC vs DMC'.

- No, I didn't mean people thought Dante didn't look like he belonged in his universe. What I meant to say is, they think DMC Dante and the world around him should be westernized, but for what reason? He's not a bad character just because he's unrealistic - in fact, I'd say that makes him a great character. As for DMC4 Dante, I think his outfit suits his personality, but if you were to give DMC1 Dante his outfit, yeaah... that wouldn't work.

 

[Sunaka Marién]

- I suppose so. But then, people need to broaden their horizons, I'd say.

- Well, I've heard many people say they prefer new Dante's design, and I've heard many people in my direct environment diss the old Dante for the way he looked in every DMC. The Dante from DMC4 got a lot of flak for wearing cowboy boots and leather pants, but I don't really see why that's a bad thing. I mean, Dante is a character, not a real person, after all. He's not supposed to look realistic or 'normal'.
My best friend keeps joking about how 'gay and generic' old Dante is, which he just says to annoy me, but I think underneath his humor, he's also serious. I guess he somehow doesn't understand that old Dante is like a superhero - more like a character than a real person. I guess that might be typically 'western' of him.

- People don't usually rip on anime characters about their looks. But for some reason, they do when it comes to Dante. That's weird, because old Dante is kind of meant to be anime-like. It seems to me that they hold games to different standards than anime series. And I just don't get that.

- No, I didn't mean people thought Dante didn't look like he belonged in his universe. What I meant to say is, they think DMC Dante and the world around him should be westernized, but for what reason? He's not a bad character just because he's unrealistic - in fact, I'd say that makes him a great character.

- I dunno, but I don't exactly think that all that many people have to broaden their horizon on that matter, I'm sure most gamers tried some Japanese-styled games at some point and some just found out it's not their cup of tea.

- People are always going to bad-mouth stuff they don't like or don't understand, sadly. Take Justin Bieber for example and all the stuff people say about him - really makes you wonder why they'd even waste their time an energy on something so meaningless, but I guess people just love to complain and look down on others to make themselves feel better or superior.
I can only talk for myself, but as I already said, the issue I had with the cowboy attire was that it simply didn't seem to suit Dante. Had he always had those cowboy elements in his clothing, I'd assume not as many would have really complained about it - exept for people who simply don't like cowboy stuff.
Does your friend dislike anime-ish stuff in general or is he just talking about Dante like that?

- Ah well, I did hear people rip on anime characters, but those are normally people who aren't part of the anime scene. I'm really not sure about this, but maybe it's just a sort of inarticulate way of people simply stating that they perefer the more western style of DmC? I guess it'd be helpful to know if people already citicized Dante's design before DmC happened. I could also imagine that it's because the gaming community has people of both sides - those that love anime design and those that despise it, so it might just seem like people make a difference between animes and video games, but that's just a theory.

- I see, but I don't think anyone ever wanted DMC to be westernized. The only thing that is happening now is that some people prefere the westernized version over the original one, henche the discussion which one is "better".
I also don't think that what people are criticizing about old Dante is that he is 'unrealistic' in that sense, but more like 'unbelievable' - at least that's the issue I have with him since DMC3. To me, for example, whenever he shows any kind of emotion, I just don't buy it, it doesn't come off as believable, imo. While with DmC Dante, I can fully realate to him, I feel with him and it's actually touching me in a way, while with DMC3&DMC4 everything is just fun and games, even serious moments fail to make me care. It's entertaining to whatch, but that's it. I dunno if that made any sense to you, I'm not good at explaining that kinda stuff D:

 

[Enigma]

Does your friend dislike anime-ish stuff in general or is he just talking about Dante like that?

- I see, but I don't think anyone ever wanted DMC to be westernized. The only thing that is happening now is that some people prefere the westernized version over the original one, henche the discussion which one is "better".
I also don't think that what people are criticizing about old Dante is that he is 'unrealistic' in that sense, but more like 'unbelievable' - at least that's the issue I have with him since DMC3. To me, for example, whenever he shows any kind of emotion, I just don't buy it, it doesn't come off as believable, imo. While with DmC Dante, I can fully realate to him, I feel with him and it's actually touching me in a way, while with DMC3&DMC4 everything is just fun and games, even serious moments fail to make me care. It's entertaining to whatch, but that's it. I dunno if that made any sense to you, I'm not good at explaining that kinda stuff D:

Naah, he's pretty much on the fence about anime. He doesn't really care about it, but he doesn't think it's stupid either. Which makes me think that he just likes to diss the old Dante and DMC simply because there are two versions of Devil May Cry. I suppose it gives him easy ammo to attack with.

I found the moments when old Dante became sort of serious/emotional more powerful than new Dante's moments of emotion, probably because new Dante is no stranger to seriousness and strong emotion. Heck, at the start of the game, he pretty much starts talking about how he cut himself open to see if he had a heart. In contrast, when old Dante becomes emotional, it comes as a shock and is far more powerful - to me, at least.

No, I can't remember people in the past thinking DMC should be westernized, but now they do... which is weird. I really think it's because they got a taste of what a western DMC could be like. But then, I don't understand why every game released in the west should be 'western'. Sure, it's popular, but if people grew up with more elements of Japanese culture and anime and such, maybe they would be more tolerant of Japanese-styled things. Maybe they'd even like it. I don't know... I always get the sense that people shy away from foreign things. Everything needs to be edgy and gritty nowadays... is it because we're now more exposed to foreign culture than we were in the past? Does that result in people getting enough of that, and wanting to see their own culture more? It's an interesting question, but sadly, I don't have the time to talk about it on the forum. It was nice to hear your opinion, though - I think most of your points are correct.

 

[V's patron]

I think focusing on learning why hack n slash games haven't been really big in the west and what it can do to fix that would be a good place to start.

Plus figuring out ways to push the stylish action genre forward wouldn't be a bad thing since we haven't seen past games like bayonetta, mgr, DMC4/DmC etc really do anything truly innovative(that doesn't mean they were bad games tho) and that would tie into my first point above.

Storytelling is a different kettle of fish because you are dealing with a more intangible elements that tend to be more subjective so its harder to course correct.

 

[MigsRZXAStylish]

I think focusing on learning why hack n slash games haven't been really big in the west and what it can do to fix that would be a good place to start.

Plus figuring out ways to push the stylish action genre forward wouldn't be a bad thing since we haven't seen past games like bayonetta, mgr, DMC4/DmC etc really do anything truly innovative(that doesn't mean they were bad games tho) and that would tie into my first point above.

Storytelling is a different kettle of fish because you are dealing with a more intangible elements that tend to be more subjective so its harder to course correct.

Then in that case, some gamers want a balance of story, gameplay, and action in these action games!

 

[mrrandomlulz]

So, a ton of people on a variety of forums had been arguing whether or not the new game would be reboot or original.
Come E3, the best possible time to announce it
And it was...
not even mentioned, with both NT and PG confirmed for other projects

"How does 'They're saving it for TGS!" sound?

(Don't worry, Drakan, I'll try to keep within the limits)

 

[ROCKMAN X]

his idea of modern cool completely ruined one of the most beloved characters in Hack n Slash and gaming,

DMC4 made Dante more fun

Sorry, but these two statements contradict each other... you clearly do notice that Dante's character was already changed from DMC 1 to DMC 4 so DmC clearly didn't "ruin the most beloved characters in hack'n'slash gaming"

 

[Innsmouth]

Sorry, but these two statements contradict each other... you clearly do notice that Dante's character was already changed from DMC 1 to DMC 4 so DmC clearly didn't "ruin the most beloved characters in hack'n'slash gaming"

Wether or not did he changes in DMC it doesn't change fact that thanks to DmC whole fanbase is pretty much divided into 2 halfs and no matter what they gonna do next, other half will hate them for it. Alienating part of fanbase is never good idea, if somebody want to retain consistent popularity of the franchise

 

[The Final Offer]

Wether or not did he changes in DMC it doesn't change fact that thanks to DmC whole fanbase is pretty much divided into 2 halfs and no matter what they gonna do next, other half will hate them for it. Alienating part of fanbase is never good idea, if somebody want to retain consistent popularity of the franchise

Same can be said about Platinum Games.

The fanbase isn't truly split. If it's because of how Dante looks and acts then it's faulty from the beginning. The gameplay is what brings everyone to the table. Dante is just there to do "favorable" things. Each Dante has their own personality, each Dante caters to a fanbase, and each Dante can't be in the same room together.

What they did with adding an alternate universe should've brought no repercussions. Unfortunately, the diabolical gamers of this age ruined it. DmC separated the hardcore fans from the softcore "All I want is Dante" fans. Now, by hardcore I mean those who are into the Devil May Cry lore, all of it. Not just Dante and Vergil. Which reiterates my point, the fanbase isn't split and if they so choose to they can pick a universe and capitalize on the hardcore fans and the newly gained fans' demand.

If they announce anything at TGS it'll be in it's early stages and people will be upset about how the new protagonist looks. Look at that, someone twitched at the thought. Softcore.

 

[Innsmouth]

Same can be said about Platinum Games.

what does they have to do with anything?

The fanbase isn't truly split. If it's because of how Dante looks and acts then it's faulty from the beginning. The gameplay is what brings everyone to the table. Dante is just there to do "favorable" things. Each Dante has their own personality, each Dante caters to a fanbase, and each Dante can't be in the same room together.

It's good that you think so, but sale figures say otherwise. Any game is more than just gameplay ( i just drop that DmC dumbed down gameplay to the lowest point since DMC2). Any game is basically sum of it's parts. YouIf Nintendo drop Link from Zelda, 70% of it's fanbase won't even going to hear why they did it. They just gonna condemn it to the depth of hell.
Personally, I think huge difference is that if they change a few names in DmC they may as well sell it as completely different franchise in all it's aspects, starting with gameplay, ending with lore. And I'm pretty sure that if DMC5 announced, 70% of DmC fans going to write it off as a failure and make same ****storm that started when DmC was anounced

 

[The Final Offer]

what does they have to do with anything?


It's good that you think so, but sale figures say otherwise. Any game is more than just gameplay ( i just drop that DmC dumbed down gameplay to the lowest point since DMC2). Any game is basically sum of it's parts. YouIf Nintendo drop Link from Zelda, 70% of it's fanbase won't even going to hear why they did it. They just gonna condemn it to the depth of hell.
Personally, I think huge difference is that if they change a few names in DmC they may as well sell it as completely different franchise in all it's aspects, starting with gameplay, ending with lore. And I'm pretty sure that if DMC5 announced, 70% of DmC fans going to write it off as a failure and make same ****storm that started when DmC was anounced

Used PG as an example.

The goal with DmC was to raise the grades of the series and they did just that. They know what works now and will definitely be catering to the fans (even more) with their next installments. That combat system with the creativity is something every hack and slash should learn from.

 

[Innsmouth]

Used PG as an example.

The goal with DmC was to raise the grades of the series and they did just that. They know what works now and will definitely be catering to the fans (even more) with their next installments. That combat system with the creativity is something every hack and slash should learn from.

Sadly imo creativity is something DmC's combat was severely lacking. I had feeling it borrows many things from other games but doesn't do much on it's own. But it's only my opinion. I'm not trying to convince you.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

Wether or not did he changes in DMC it doesn't change fact that thanks to DmC whole fanbase is pretty much divided into 2 halfs and no matter what they gonna do next, other half will hate them for it. Alienating part of fanbase is never good idea, if somebody want to retain consistent popularity of the franchise

Nah.. not really DMC fanbase has gone past the "TGS 2010 white hair outrage phase" now most DMC fans don't really dislike DmC that much.

 

[Innsmouth]

Nah.. not really DMC fanbase has gone past the "TGS 2010 white hair outrage phase" now most DMC fans don't really dislike DmC that much.

Considering how each article about this game is always combined with arguing from one side or another I think it's more serious than you think.

 

[Tosto]

BTW, Onimusha also is one of those games, where despite lackluster story, it's hell of a fun game.

I really think they should reboot Onimusha and do a straight up remake. If Onimusha 1 and 2 had the controls for 3. I'd be all up in that.