Was 2 dodge buttons really necessary?

[WolfOD64]

If you had problems with DmC because of the lack of lock on then, how you dress yourself in the mornings?

Because, you know...all the past Ninja Theory games had a lock-on function, right?

 

[Axon49]

Because, you know...all the past Ninja Theory games had a lock-on function, right?

To be fair, I don't remember Enslaved having flying or color-coded enemies. Both of which I believe are the crux for the frustration of not having a lock-on feature in DmC.

 

[Gray Knight]

Well they worked pretty well around the lack of lock on and styles. The demon dodge and counter attacking system helped with the lack of royalguard, they integrated some gunslinger and sword master moves, angel lift and dodging helped emulate part of trickster and the ophion series even let some of the Devil Bringers grabbing get integrated into everything (the distance and enemy control specficially). DmC worked well with it's control scheme, though some people would argue that the features from the beloved styles from the previous games were watered down in the transition.
I just pointed out the oddness of 2 dodge buttons, to be honest if you added a lock on button while it wouldn't be necessary, it could have added another level of depth to the system, not just in an attempt to emulate the old. You were able to pull off an impressive variety of moves without the lock-on system I'm saying it would be good supplement to the system established in DmC not just a way to carry on the legacy of the past games.

 

[Demi-fiend]

@The Final Offer

Would you mind telling me what the point of Playstation TV is? Can you download games on it? Is this what the X1 wanted to be (all-in-one TV device)?

 

[The Final Offer]

@The Final Offer

Would you mind telling me what the point of Playstation TV is? Can you download games on it? Is this what the X1 wanted to be (all-in-one TV device)?

It's a small device with the point of providing us non portable gamers an opportunity to play those games we've missed on our televisions. I think at 720p.It was originally called the PS Vita TV. I think you have to download games onto it.

Sidenote: I've been wanting to play Dissida Final Fantasy for a while now and this device is going to help me do it.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I found that I always used the analog stick to control the direction I went and always used only one of the dodge buttons.

I'm trying to figure out why the use of the analog stick factored into your decision at all.

The point of the two different buttons was so that if you used the default control scheme, you could easily perform an Angel/Demon dodge with both index fingers (L1+R2 or R1+L2). It's simply an ease-of-use feature.

My control scheme is nearly identical to the default, except I made the mode triggers L1 and R1, and made Gun Special L2. This means I have only one dodge button, and Angel Dodges are easy to do, while Demon Dodges require a bit of finger yoga, although I'm perfectly fine with it.

Now, if my scheme was the default, people would definitely complain about Demon Dodges being needlessly difficult to do. Luckily, we can change our control scheme to whatever we'd like, which is always great.

 

[The Final Offer]

I'd like to point out something.

Those dodge buttons....they are supposed to give you the options to do whatever abilities Dante can do. The deal here is that in other Devil May Cry, you have these cutscenes that show off what Dante could really do and this gameplay that doesn't quite fit with what you've just witnessed. It's like those Dantes were being held back because of the gameplay. What I'm trying to say is....your options were limited and now they aren't. From what I've witnessed, it's obvious that the cool stuff in DmC happens while you're using the character and the limiters appear when you aren't.

Now imagine that, the full potential of DMC Dante at your disposal.

 

[Axon49]

It gives us more options from a control standpoint, but it doesn't bring us any closer to being able to do what Dante does in cutscenes. We aren't given new abilities by having a second dodge button that works exactly like the other dodge button.

Lock-on on the other hand...

 

[The Final Offer]

It gives us more options from a control standpoint, but it doesn't bring us any closer to being able to do what Dante does in cutscenes. We aren't given new abilities by having a second dodge button that works exactly like the other dodge button.

Lock-on on the other hand...

It does not work exactly like the other. I use angel dodge to teleport away from the fray and demon dodge to slow time in order to counter attack.

What DmC Dante does in cutscenes are all abilities that you can do in the game.

DMC 3 is the closet to reaching full potential in the original universe. That came in the form of reaction moves such as sliding on the corpse of your foe whilst spinning and shooting your guns.

But since we're on what's necessary and what isn't. Was Dante necessary in DMC4? What about Spiral in DMC 3? Rhetorical questions...and an unveiling of my understanding to your own opinion of what should've and shouldn't have been in a game.

Lock on didn't do much of anything different for DMC's combat. You wanna walk? Lock on. You wanna simplify your controls? Lock on. You wanna focus on one enemy because this camera isn't going to do it for you? Lock on.

I mean, I get it, I hear you.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I still don't think DmC needs a Hard Lock, considering the game was made without it in mind, and the Soft Lock with the target switching and directional override functions working wonders for the action the game asks of the player. You can't take that gameplay philosophy from the classics to DmC because it's just different in that respect.

 

[The Final Offer]

I still don't think DmC needs a Hard Lock, considering the game was made without it in mind. You can't take that gameplay philosophy from the classics to DmC because it's just different in that respect.

It doesn't and it never will need a hard lock. It's camera is not the same as the original series.

 

[Bazilican]

No. But who cares? Just switch that button out for something else. problem solved.

 

[Axon49]

It does not work exactly like the other. I use angel dodge to teleport away from the fray and demon dodge to slow time in order to counter attack.

But holding the L2/R2 buttons are what decide that. Both dodge buttons themselves are exactly the same. I always used R1 for both dodging types.

And we can actually do way more in-game than DmC Dante does in cutscenes, since Dante doesn't actually fight anything in any scene as far as I recall. I think he swings a sword at Vergil once or twice towards the end and that it. That was actually one of my biggest gripes with the game. No action scenes whatsoever.

That and Stinger being kinda funky (due to no lock-on). It worked most of the time, and usually hit the enemy I wanted, but in DMC1-4, it worked 100% of the time and if I hit the wrong enemy it was entirely my fault. Again, it's not only a problem related to a lack of the lock-on feature, but it's also in the "the lowered difficulty made it a much smaller issue category," but Stinger is my favorite move in action game history. I didn't like seeing it messed with, personally.

EDIT:

Lock on didn't do much of anything different for DMC's combat. You wanna walk? Lock on. You wanna simplify your controls? Lock on. You wanna focus on one enemy because this camera isn't going to do it for you? Lock on.

Lock-on was always the modifier in DMC. Without lock-on, we couldn't do stuff like Dance Macabre (which is almost straight out of cutscene Dante's book) and Trickster would've been nearly useless. Tons of moves in DMC1-4 rely on your ability to lock on. It wasn't simply aiming at an enemy.

 

[The Final Offer]

But holding the L2/R2 buttons are what decide that. Both dodge buttons themselves are exactly the same. I always used R1 for both dodging types.

And we can actually do way more in-game than DmC Dante does in cutscenes, since Dante doesn't actually fight anything in any scene as far as I recall. I think he swings a sword at Vergil once or twice towards the end and that it. That was actually one of my biggest gripes with the game. No action scenes whatsoever.

That and Stinger being kinda funky (due to no lock-on). It worked most of the time, and usually hit the enemy I wanted, but in DMC1-4, it worked 100% of the time and if I hit the wrong enemy it was entirely my fault. Again, it's not only a problem related to a lack of the lock-on feature, but it's also in the "the lowered difficulty made it a much smaller issue category," but Stinger is my favorite move in action game history. I didn't like seeing it messed with, personally.

EDIT:



Lock-on was always the modifier in DMC. Without lock-on, we couldn't do stuff like Dance Macabre (which is almost straight out of cutscene Dante's book) and Trickster would've been nearly useless. Tons of moves in DMC1-4 rely on your ability to lock on. It wasn't simply aiming at an enemy.

I understand, the only thing I know is that when they said reboot and different universe I was expecting the controls to be slightly different because of the camera. Trust me, the camera is something that needs to be factored into how the gameplay works. These things that annoy people are little things that throw them off because they're not used to it. That's my understanding of the fan outcry about mechanics.

DmC and DMC are not the same when it comes to alot of things and that's what needs to sink into people's heads. The same team that did DMC 4's combat worked on DmC's and chose this to separate it from the original's gameplay for a new feel. Just like any game starting off, the difficulty is based on what the creators believe will be enjoyable for the newly experienced. You can bet your rear end that DmC2's difficulty would've been insane due to the simple fact that the first was easy (on normal) on purpose. They expect the player to know what they're getting into by the next game. Therefore, you'd have the Devil May Cry experience and know how it works so now it's time for that DMC3 a** whooping. You know? lol.

The mechanics are actually quite similar to previous games and I say that because the functionality is different and yet the activation is the same number of button presses.

DMC:
->You hold Lock ON and press triangle when in the right direction to use Stinger.
L1+Forward+Triangle

DmC:
->You press forward forward and triangle when in the right direction to use Stinger.
Forward+Forward+Triangle

*Now, I'm a fighting game fan and this works perfectly for me. I enjoy pressing combinations in a speedy manner to make a move happen.

So this is where we separate. I'm a pin pointer and I've missed Stinger once or twice due to using it as a finisher to a falling enemy. So I get it. You don't like the way you do moves in DmC.

 

[sssensational]

It's nice 'n easy lol

 

[Demi-fiend]

No. But who cares? Just switch that button out for something else. problem solved.

Apparently, this is beyond some people's comprehension.

Also, was it necessary to have both the standard rolling dodge and the Trickster dodge (in DMC3)? I understand if it were a straight-up teleport like Vergil's DS style, but having both moves were more-or-less unnecessary in my honest opinion -- I felt like it could've been done better.

For example: In DMC4 (as much as I hate that game, I'd rather play Web of Shadows than that again) Nero's rolling dodge immediately converted into a Trickster dash when you rolled right before an enemy struck at you.

Seems like this sort of thing should've been standard right from the get-go in DMC3.

 

[The Final Offer]

Apparently, this is beyond some people's comprehension.

Also, was it necessary to have both the standard rolling dodge and the Trickster dodge (in DMC3)? I understand if it were a straight-up teleport like Vergil's DS style, but having both moves were more-or-less unnecessary in my honest opinion -- I felt like it could've been done better.

For example: In DMC4 (as much as I hate that game, I'd rather play Web of Shadows than that again) Nero's rolling dodge immediately converted into a Trickster dash when you rolled right before an enemy struck at you.

Seems like this sort of thing should've been standard right from the get-go in DMC3.

Applauds.

 

[Axon49]

Apparently, this is beyond some people's comprehension.

Because it's equivalent to, "oh, that aspect of the game is bad? Well it doesn't matter because you can ignore it," which is a terrible argument.

And what would we replace it with? Something one of the other buttons already does? We'd just end up with two buttons doing the same thing all over again.

Also, was it necessary to have both the standard rolling dodge and the Trickster dodge (in DMC3)? I understand if it were a straight-up teleport like Vergil's DS style, but having both moves were more-or-less unnecessary in my honest opinion -- I felt like it could've been done better.

See, this is where the "it gives us more options" argument can come in, since the two moves are actually somewhat different.

In fact, they're substantially different. Trickster Dash bursts towards an enemy, while the rolling dodge rolls left or right. You can chain up to three Trickster Dashes together, while the rolling dodge is just a singular move. And finally the Trickster Dash has no i-frames.

 

[The Final Offer]

Because it's equivalent to, "oh, that aspect of the game is bad? Well it doesn't matter because you can ignore it," which is a terrible argument.

And what would we replace it with? Something one of the other buttons already does? We'd just end up with two buttons doing the same thing all over again.



See, this is where the "it gives us more options" argument can come in, since the two moves are actually somewhat different.

In fact, they're substantially different. Trickster Dash bursts towards an enemy, while the rolling dodge rolls left or right. You can chain up to three Trickster Dashes together, while the rolling dodge is just a singular move. And finally the Trickster Dash has no i-frames.

Demon dodge can be used just as Trickster dash. It adds points to your score when done perfectly and the point modifier for the dodge lowers the more you use it.

If we were to replace the button, I'd say it'd be an alternative function for charging projectiles.

 

[Axon49]

Demon dodge can be used just as Trickster dash. It adds points to your score when done perfectly and the point modifier for the dodge lowers the more you use it.

We've been over that already. Demon/Angel dodge is decided by holding L2 or R2.

The dodges themselves are mapped to two buttons, and the dodges themselves are exactly the same. You can hold R2 and press either L1 or R1 and you'll still get a Demon Dodge. Same for Angel Dodge.

The dodges are what this whole thread is about, not the modifiers for said dodges.