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rebellion comparison

Azurel

Well-known Member
She's arguing. I'm laughing.

On the topic: GBraga pretty much said it: The tatoo has some meaning, that's why it's there. It's not simple eyecandy.

It probably burned onto Dante's skin when he received Rebellion. You can't carry a guitar case with you all the time like Old Dante did in the anime, so, this is the better way to carry it.

This site is actually pretty good. You wanna see a real flamers' site? Try Phantombabies.net. No administrative discipline whatsoever. Trollers run wild over there. The flame wars on there were....infamous to say the least.


gaminfamous2eyestease580.jpg


**Cole MacGrath is not amused.**
 

Sieghart

"Plough the lilies"
It probably burned onto Dante's skin when he received Rebellion. You can't carry a guitar case with you all the time like Old Dante did in the anime, so, this is the better way to carry it.

I'm always thinking how rebellion is cleaved at dante's back without any bag or something.
 

Pale Rider

Wickedly good
I think, cuz NT can explain everything, the tattoo is there for carrying his sword(physical manisfestation and yada yada) just like how Nero used to carry Yamato. In previous DMCs, the weapons just magically appeared for Dante the moment you pressed the weapon switvh button with no 'reality' or whatsoever. Now, this is NT we are talkin' about and they can explain everything. Besides that, that tattoo can also heal Dino. My $0.02.
 

Azurel

Well-known Member
I'm always thinking how rebellion is cleaved at dante's back without any bag or something.

That my friend, is called static electricity. But I just like to call it an otherworldly invisible device called plotholium. "Magical demonic demon magic" is what the fans (or maybe even the creators, if they ever bothered to do so) offer as a form of explanation. At least NT is trying to cover all it's bases on that front. Hopefully, they'll have everything sorted out and explained when the game releases.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
It's alright to question why he has it and how he got it, but it sounds like you have already found it unnecessary for him to get it instead of waiting for an explanation to why and how he actually got it. What we have seen so far are just teasers to the game, just small bits and pieces to poke our curiousity. We aren't meant to know all these yet, because that would be to give away too much information. We are supposed to learn about these things by playing the game.

Like trailers for a movie, they aren't supposed to explain the whole plot and inform us of every detail that is happening in the movie. Have patience.
Tattoos are unnecessary, but people have them, anyway, that's a fact. In reality, though, they serve no real purpose; A person can go their entire lives without one and be no better or worse of. It's not a necessity, it's a personal choice, all my friends have 'em, my brother and sister, and if I wasn't so picky, so would I.


It's not the fact that he has a tattoo it's the possivility that they gave it to him for nothing more than cool points. How many ways can I say it? It just feels phony when you add that to the rest of the content in the trailer. I do understand the story purpose, what it is and why it's there but like I said, out of all the things that could've been, the healing force shaped like his sword, a tattoo might've been chosen for rather shallow reasons. If I thought that they chose a tattoo because tattoos were thought to have mystic properties (which is true about some cultures) then I wouldn't be so reserved about this matter, but I don't think that that was the reasoning behind it at all, and that's what pesters me about it.


I don't know... Maybe I expect too much.

That my friend, is called static electricity. But I just like to call it an otherworldly invisible device called plotholium. "Magical demonic demon magic" is what the fans (or maybe even the creators, if they ever bothered to do so) offer as a form of explanation. At least NT is trying to cover all it's bases on that front. Hopefully, they'll have everything sorted out and explained when the game releases.


Actually, all of the Devil Arms have wills of their own. If a sword is in Dante's back it's because it wants to be there or has to be there.
 

Azurel

Well-known Member
Hideki Kamiya himself said that he wanted Blade Dante to have a trench coat because he thought "I wanted the battle system to look dynamic." hahaha...

Basically, he wanted Dante to look cool. Is that not a shallow characteristic?

not-entertained-meme-generator-are-you-not-entertained-is-that-not-why-you-re-here-37ff6c.jpg
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
Hideki Kamiya himself said that he wanted Blade Dante to have a trench coat because he thought "I wanted the battle system to look dynamic." hahaha...

Basically, he wanted Dante to look cool. Is that not a shallow characteristic?

not-entertained-meme-generator-are-you-not-entertained-is-that-not-why-you-re-here-37ff6c.jpg

Not exaxtly. Dante has a coat as replacement for a cape. The character neded something to trail him to enhance to visual look in battle the same way you give some one else something to trail their movements, to add a dynamic element to the animation and battle. Bayonetta has the hair, shinobi has the scarf, Dante has a coat.
 

Azurel

Well-known Member
How do you know the tattoo won't glow at times and the light itself won't trail Dante in battle? They could change that at anytime.

Not everything is known so far, and as an explanation on where the sword goes when Dante's not using it, they could have given no explanation at all, like they did in the previous DMC games. And pretty much every other game as well. It's never explained how any of these characters are able to carry so much at any given time.

By the way, the scarf, the hair, and the coat don't really add anything gameplay-wise, so, in the end, none of this is really necessary. "Enhancing visual looks" does not do a thing to help you in battle.

It can even be quite distracting when the sword clips into the coat. I would have preferred no coat than having to put up with graphical glitches every 15 seconds.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
Tattoos are unnecessary, but people have them, anyway, that's a fact. In reality, though, they serve no real purpose; A person can go their entire lives without one and be no better or worse of. It's not a necessity, it's a personal choice, all my friends have 'em, my brother and sister, and if I wasn't so picky, so would I.


It's not the fact that he has a tattoo it's the possivility that they gave it to him for nothing more than cool points. How many ways can I say it? It just feels phony when you add that to the rest of the content in the trailer. I do understand the story purpose, what it is and why it's there but like I said, out of all the things that could've been, the healing force shaped like his sword, a tattoo might've been chosen for rather shallow reasons. If I thought that they chose a tattoo because tattoos were thought to have mystic properties (which is true about some cultures) then I wouldn't be so reserved about this matter, but I don't think that that was the reasoning behind it at all, and that's what pesters me about it.


I don't know... Maybe I expect too much.




Actually, all of the Devil Arms have wills of their own. If a sword is in Dante's back it's because it wants to be there or has to be there.

In real life, tattoos are unnecessary, that I agree on. They are nothing more than visual designs to add to ones appearance, like piercings and fashionable clothes.

But this is a fantasy world where demons and magic exists. In many fantasy worlds, tattoos have magical properties and are necessary for certain magical effects to happen. I believe that the tattoo Dante has on his back is necessary for him to heal and maybe do other things. Or maybe it is the other way around, that he got the tattoo as a sign of his power: a sign that manifested when he was able to harness certain magic, like the healing.

In this new world of the new Devil May Cry, perhaps tattoos are necessary to use magic. If Ninja Theory gave Dante the tattoo just to look cool, then it wouldn't do anything, but we clearly see in the newest trailer that it actually does something. They just chose to use a tattoo to help him heal instead of something else, like I mentioned above. In Prince of Persia, a dagger helps the main protagonist to control time. In God of War, Kratos uses Medusa's head to petrify his enemies by turning them into stone. In Heavenly Sword, Nariko's body is slowly covered in tattoos as the sword gives her more power. And in this game, Dante has a tattoo on his back that can heal him.

I do think you are overreacting though. So what if he got a tattoo just to look cool, if that was the case. We have already established that this Dante is not the same Dante as the one in the original series, so your reaction can't be because you think they are "defiling" your beloved character. The tattoo is a visual design with a property, unlike original Dante's white hair or red coat, those are for pure visual effects only with no property other than to look cool. Is that wrong too? No, it isn't, because it is part of his design. Some people like the design, some do not, we all have an opinion about what is cool and what is not, but your complaining is about the wrong thing. You can complain that they gave him a tattoo if you don't like it or don't want Dante to have one, but you complain that they gave him a tattoo just to make him look cool and that is where you are being wrong.

It really just looks like you complain for the sake of complaining about, well, anything. It is like you are looking for reasons to complain.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
But this is a fantasy world where demons and magic exists. In many fantasy worlds, tattoos have magical properties and are necessary for certain magical effects to happen. I believe that the tattoo Dante has on his back is necessary for him to heal and maybe do other things. Or maybe it is the other way around, that he got the tattoo as a sign of his power: a sign that manifested when he was able to harness certain magic, like the healing.
But it didn't have to be a tattoo, it could've been a many number of things, jewelery, a scar, an article of clothes which are more common in fantasy worlds. The glow could've come from his arteries or his eyes, the sword shape could've been his belt buckle or on his necklace. That tattoo isn't necessary here, ether, the effect, maybe, but the tattoo, no.

In this new world of the new Devil May Cry, perhaps tattoos are necessary to use magic. If Ninja Theory gave Dante the tattoo just to look cool, then it wouldn't do anything, but we clearly see in the newest trailer that it actually does something. They just chose to use a tattoo to help him heal instead of something else, like I mentioned above. In Prince of Persia, a dagger helps the main protagonist to control time. In God of War, Kratos uses Medusa's head to petrify his enemies by turning them into stone. In Heavenly Sword, Nariko's body is slowly covered in tattoos as the sword gives her more power. And in this game, Dante has a tattoo on his back that can heal him.
You really think that just because it does something that it isn't there just because it's cool? Or that it's as important as the other examples you used? You've gone to the extent of saying that this tattoo is as important as the dagger in Prince of Persia, you honestly think it has equal importance? Let me see if I can put it another way. For arguments sake let say that it is a fact that the sword comes out of his tattoo, is that really the only thing that could've been?

Well I wish I could say that we'll see by the time the game comes out but I honestly don't belive I'll remember this by then.

I do think you are overreacting though.
I don't think I'm overreacting, I think I wanted to express my opinion, couldn't get my point accross you and had to go in to much further detail to get my point through you.


So what if he got a tattoo just to look cool, if that was the case. We have already established that this Dante is not the same Dante as the one in the original series, so your reaction can't be because you think they are "defiling" your beloved character.
Not sure where that came from but that's right, it's not the reason. It's also not because I think that yo-yos are the new race horses and that seems almost as relevant to having "my beloved character 'defiled'" since as you just point it out it's not the same Dante.

The tattoo is a visual design with a property, unlike original Dante's white hair or red coat, those are for pure visual effects only with no property other than to look cool. Is that wrong too?
So much wrong with this statement, where to beggin.
As far as we know the tattoo does nothing outside of the cutsceen, it doesn't heal you after battle nor during. So far it's just there to heal his scratches. It's also supposed to be the sword that manifests itself in Limbo, that doesn't make it an irreplasable idea, or even a well thought out one.

Dante's hair and coat weren't just 'to look cool.' There was actual thought behind these design choises, the coat, it's color, his hair, they all have thought behind them and there are more profound reasons for them been there than just 'because it's cool.' And that is the very reason I want more out of this than just because it's cool' and to accept less than what was given before then you are getting suckered.

No, it isn't, because it is part of his design. Some people like the design, some do not, we all have an opinion about what is cool and what is not, but your complaining is about the wrong thing.
No, I'm pretty sure this is a beef I got with this.

You can complain that they gave him a tattoo if you don't like it or don't want Dante to have one, but you complain that they gave him a tattoo just to make him look cool and that is where you are being wrong.
Oh, so now I'm flat out wrong, I'm no longer allowed to say it's my opinion and yours, now it's 'your right, I'm wrong.' Is that how it is?

Sorry, but no. Actually, that a lie, I'm not sorry.

To design something just because it's cool is no design at all. Form follows function, not the other way around. You don't design something just to make it cool and then give it a purpose.

It really just looks like you complain for the sake of complaining about, well, anything. It is like you are looking for reasons to complain.
Not exactly, I know what my complains are, where they are, why I see fit to complain about them. This is one of them and it was a rather simple one untill it became this long winded explination.

Bottom line is, in terms of design, I expect more thought behind something than just because it looks cool and if this tattoo ends up been nothing more than that then it's a cheap element and I expect more from my gaming experiences.
 

AngelMode

Well-known Member
Well, in the end, it's just a matter of opinion if you like it or not. If the tattoo seems too simple and too straight forward for you then that's fine, but some people might think it was pretty interesting way to explain why his sword always stood magically at his back. I mean, I can't really come up with "something magical" that does that and it is located at your back (a backwards amulet? lol see what I mean?) So I think they had little to no choices when it came to "having something practical on Dante's back to explain the sword" than going with a tattoo.

Btw, we really don't know why Dante's sword(s) stood on his back. All those reasons you guys have given are speculations. Either demonic energy, magnetism, or the swords levitating because of self-consciousness. They are all legitimate, but speculations nonetheless.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
But it didn't have to be a tattoo, it could've been a many number of things, jewelery, a scar, an article of clothes which are more common in fantasy worlds. The glow could've come from his arteries or his eyes, the sword shape could've been his belt buckle or on his necklace. That tattoo isn't necessary here, ether, the effect, maybe, but the tattoo, no.


You really think that just because it does something that it isn't there just because it's cool? Or that it's as important as the other examples you used? You've gone to the extent of saying that this tattoo is as important as the dagger in Prince of Persia, you honestly think it has equal importance? Let me see if I can put it another way. For arguments sake let say that it is a fact that the sword comes out of his tattoo, is that really the only thing that could've been?

Well I wish I could say that we'll see by the time the game comes out but I honestly don't belive I'll remember this by then.


I don't think I'm overreacting, I think I wanted to express my opinion, couldn't get my point accross you and had to go in to much further detail to get my point through you.



Not sure where that came from but that's right, it's not the reason. It's also not because I think that yo-yos are the new race horses and that seems almost as relevant to having "my beloved character 'defiled'" since as you just point it out it's not the same Dante.


So much wrong with this statement, where to beggin.
As far as we know the tattoo does nothing outside of the cutsceen, it doesn't heal you after battle nor during. So far it's just there to heal his scratches. It's also supposed to be the sword that manifests itself in Limbo, that doesn't make it an irreplasable idea, or even a well thought out one.

Dante's hair and coat weren't just 'to look cool.' There was actual thought behind these design choises, the coat, it's color, his hair, they all have thought behind them and there are more profound reasons for them been there than just 'because it's cool.' And that is the very reason I want more out of this than just because it's cool' and to accept less than what was given before then you are getting suckered.


No, I'm pretty sure this is a beef I got with this.

Oh, so now I'm flat out wrong, I'm no longer allowed to say it's my opinion and yours, now it's 'your right, I'm wrong.' Is that how it is?

Sorry, but no. Actually, that a lie, I'm not sorry.

To design something just because it's cool is no design at all. Form follows function, not the other way around. You don't design something just to make it cool and then give it a purpose.


Not exactly, I know what my complains are, where they are, why I see fit to complain about them. This is one of them and it was a rather simple one untill it became this long winded explination.

Bottom line is, in terms of design, I expect more thought behind something than just because it looks cool and if this tattoo ends up been nothing more than that then it's a cheap element and I expect more from my gaming experiences.


All this you wrote here is an argument made out of ignorance. You have for some reason made up your mind that the tattoo is there just to look cool and that there were never any thought behind its design or reason for it to be there. That is why I think you are wrong, but it doesn't look like you are willing to budge or to be open-minded about other people's input. Sorry to see that though. I'll have it end at we agree to disagree then, so let's just move on.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
Well, in the end, it's just a matter of opinion if you like it or not. If the tattoo seems too simple and too straight forward for you then that's fine, but some people might think it was pretty interesting way to explain why his sword always stood magically at his back. I mean, I can't really come up with "something magical" that does that and it is located at your back (a backwards amulet? lol see what I mean?) So I think they had little to no choices when it came to "having something practical on Dante's back to explain the sword" than going with a tattoo.
You missundertand me. I have nothing against the tattoo or tatoos in general or him having a tottoo or half a dozen of them, as I've said many times over and over again. To be honest I'd be less concerned if it was a plain tattoo that was just something he got because that's just his taste. My concer is that it'll turn in to just something thoughtless, just there to to draw appeal, brownie points, that it'll be there once to make him look cool and then it's gone, that was it, and that it might lack any dept and thus far that's all it looks like it is.

All this you wrote here is an argument made out of ignorance. You have for some reason made up your mind that the tattoo is there just to look cool and that there were never any thought behind its design or reason for it to be there. That is why I think you are wrong, but it doesn't look like you are willing to budge or to be open-minded about other people's input. Sorry to see that though. I'll have it end at we agree to disagree then, so let's just move on.
How condecending you are. You tell me I'm wrong, end of story, just for giving my opinion, and now I'm ignorant to boot. All I've done is voice my concer and you kept missing the point and trying to convince me to change my mind and you didn't even have the decency to try to be deplomatic about it. I never tryed to tell you that YOU were wrong or that my opinion needed to be what everyone belived and yet i have to agree with you. No, I have my opinion and you yours but apparantly not agreeing with you makes me ignorant.
 

AngelMode

Well-known Member
You missundertand me. I have nothing against the tattoo or tatoos in general or him having a tottoo or half a dozen of them, as I've said many times over and over again. To be honest I'd be less concerned if it was a plain tattoo that was just something he got because that's just his taste. My concer is that it'll turn in to just something thoughtless, just there to to draw appeal, brownie points, that it'll be there once to make him look cool and then it's gone, that was it, and that it might lack any dept and thus far that's all it looks like it is.

Well, yes, I understood your view on tattoos but now I think I've finally grasped what you were trying to say. And yes, that makes sense, but by what you are saying you have more of a "fear" that it might turn out that the tattoo is just gonna be there to show off that he has a tattoo on his back that heals and swords come out it, and then you will just forget it even exists. That's fair, but something you won't know until the game comes out. I think it's a legit concern, just like how elements we have seen so far that look important are gonna actually be of any importance to the story or not. Like that dude Bob that comes out in the news broadcast, he looks important but he might just appear once at the beginning, never to show up again.
 

ReRave

smug jerk
But it didn't have to be a tattoo, it could've been a many number of things, jewelery, a scar, an article of clothes which are more common in fantasy worlds. The glow could've come from his arteries or his eyes, the sword shape could've been his belt buckle or on his necklace. That tattoo isn't necessary here, ether, the effect, maybe, but the tattoo, no.
All those other things wouldn't be necessary either. If it can be jewelry, it might as well be a tatoo. Dante's Amulet had no gameplay-function either, yet he had it.

You really think that just because it does something that it isn't there just because it's cool? Or that it's as important as the other examples you used? You've gone to the extent of saying that this tattoo is as important as the dagger in Prince of Persia, you honestly think it has equal importance?
Well, the tatoo heals Dante and incorporates his sword. The dagger rewinds time.

Let me see if I can put it another way. For arguments sake let say that it is a fact that the sword comes out of his tattoo, is that really the only thing that could've been?
This argument is pointless, because anything else but a tatoo would've been sufficient, yes, but why shouldn't it be ink then?

As far as we know the tattoo does nothing outside of the cutsceen, it doesn't heal you after battle nor during. So far it's just there to heal his scratches. It's also supposed to be the sword that manifests itself in Limbo, that doesn't make it an irreplasable idea, or even a well thought out one.
So was Dante's amulet, Kratos' red mark, Dante's blue eyes, Mundus being a greece-styled statue and countless other instances in the buisiness.
People make design choices for coolness. Tatoos are cool to some people (I don't like them myself) and can produce that aura of mystery (where does he have it from? how did it get it's magical properties?).

Dante's hair and coat weren't just 'to look cool.' There was actual thought behind these design choises, the coat, it's color, his hair, they all have thought behind them and there are more profound reasons for them been there than just 'because it's cool.
Yet his white hair color and the red coat have no impact on the gameplay whatsoever, even though that is your main concern with the tatoo. His guns might as well be the same color and his sword could have been blue. Do you see my point?

' And that is the very reason I want more out of this than just because it's cool' and to accept less than what was given before then you are getting suckered.
The only thing that had even a sliver of gameplay-impact is the coat and that only if we're talking aesthetics.

Oh, so now I'm flat out wrong, I'm no longer allowed to say it's my opinion and yours, now it's 'your right, I'm wrong.' Is that how it is?
Stop being a bitch and read again. Plain and simple.
Edit: Yes, I called you a bitch and I will again, since you're behaving like one by being fully aware of what Zero wrote, but nonetheless misinterpreting it.

To design something just because it's cool is no design at all. Form follows function, not the other way around.
That is true in engineering, not in a buisiness where the "rule of cool" dominates the market.
If you still insist on this point: name one item from any video game-character you like and then check it's functionality for gameplay. Design is almost never equal to function, as you will see.

You don't design something just to make it cool and then give it a purpose.
How do you know what came first? Function or tatoo?

Bottom line is, in terms of design, I expect more thought behind something than just because it looks cool and if this tattoo ends up been nothing more than that then it's a cheap element and I expect more from my gaming experiences.
You don't even know anything about this mark on his back, except for what we've seen in that one trailer. You have no other info than we have, so we're all argumenting on the same basis.
So, point is: the marking is there, we don't know it's full purpose yet and even though it doesn't impact gameplay, that doesn't make it wrong to put there.
 

berto

I Saw the Devil
Moderator
but something you won't know until the game comes out.
I am well aware of that, it's not something I claim as fact just one of those things that nags at you. It just seems like I have more interest in this that I actually do because of the length of the posts and that's just because it seemed that what I was saying was not been understood and that lead to longer, more detailed explinations.

blah blah blah
This seems to be dragging on too long and lost all meaning.

Anyway. Don't call me a bitch. Period.
 

ZeroLove

Well-known Member
okay since people can't stop freaking arguing with one another i would like for a moderator to just lock this thread.

Minor Guidelines:

  • Please do not request thread closures/moves as it is the decision of the staff to moderate posts and threads, not the members. Discussion of the sort only encourages users to go off-topic
You missundertand me. I have nothing against the tattoo or tatoos in general or him having a tottoo or half a dozen of them, as I've said many times over and over again. To be honest I'd be less concerned if it was a plain tattoo that was just something he got because that's just his taste. My concer is that it'll turn in to just something thoughtless, just there to to draw appeal, brownie points, that it'll be there once to make him look cool and then it's gone, that was it, and that it might lack any dept and thus far that's all it looks like it is.


How condecending you are. You tell me I'm wrong, end of story, just for giving my opinion, and now I'm ignorant to boot. All I've done is voice my concer and you kept missing the point and trying to convince me to change my mind and you didn't even have the decency to try to be deplomatic about it. I never tryed to tell you that YOU were wrong or that my opinion needed to be what everyone belived and yet i have to agree with you. No, I have my opinion and you yours but apparantly not agreeing with you makes me ignorant.

Okay, I might have been too harsh by saying you were outright wrong, I apologize for that. I still find your concerns misplaced, as you can clearly see in the trailer that the ONE tattoo we see has a function and isn't some thoughtless notion. It is not you not agreeing with me I found wrong, nor that you have an opinion, but that your opinion seems to be based on a concern build around your own fears instead of realizing the fact that it ISN'T just something thoughtless. It is obvious that there is a reason for Dante to have that tattoo, but yes, it could have been a dozen other things instead of a tattoo, however, Ninja Theory chose it to be a tattoo. So instead of getting worried about it being a tattoo, try instead to wrap your mind about WHY he has that tattoo and what it does for him. It adds some cool points, because tattoos are cool and all (by some people's standards), but it also has a function and a reason to be there.

You can compare it to Nero's demon arm. He has a demon arm, but it is NEVER explained why he has it. We got hints to his demonic heritage, but there were never any clarification to why exactly he got the arm and why it has the function it has. If that is why you have a fear, or concern, about this tattoo, then I can understand that, but then you must try to have faith in Ninja Theory's abilities to tell Dante's story in this game which they have said countless of times that it is one of their main priorities with this game. Or else this concern of yours is based on nothing.
 
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