Kat Useless or Not

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

she should get telekinetic powers if there is a sequel and dante should teach her to fight but in dmc she wasn't that helpful outside of making gateways into and out of limbo

 

[Vinosh]

I finished today DmC.
Kat is so useless as Lady/Trish in DMC 4.

 

[sssensational]

I love Kat a lot. I do, however, feel like we've only scratched the surface of her backstory. I would've loved to hear more about it. But you know, with the whole Mundus thing and Dante not knowing where he came from, there wasn't that much time.

Which is why I need a sequel.

Maybe Kat could become a playable character eventually? She could develop her witchcraft skills, turn certain things into weapons. Idk..

 

[The Final Offer]

I finished today DmC.
Kat is so useless as Lady/Trish in DMC 4.

I'm ashamed you didn't notice her usefulness when Dante and Vergil spoke of it. I'm ashamed you didn't notice her usefulness throughout the stages in the game and the cut-scenes.

When captured she used her powers to get the layout of Mundus's building. So, when she was being tortured, she does OBE and goes to help the cause instead of sitting there looking pathetic. That makes her top notch useful.

"Without Kat, we would've failed over and over" These are Dante's words.
"Kat was useful but..." Vergil's own words.

I don't believe anyone who claims Kat wasn't useful has played the game. Either that or they're salty everyone who's in DMC 1-4 isn't as useful.

 

[sssensational]

"Without Kat, we would've failed over and over" These are Dante's words.

That was one of my favorite scenes. Dante was so sick of it. xD

 

[DragonMaster2010]

The only way I see people saying Kat was useless is because she's not going all guns blazing or shooting lightning out of her hands.

She may not fight physically, but she's a better planner, psychic, tacticianer, and is the type to attack from the shadows or the distant hidden dagger.

 

[sssensational]

The reason why I love her so much is because we all know and love the typical guns blazing, self assured female side character. But I personally feel like I can relate to Kat a lot more. She's shy and maybe even a little insecure, and I would love it if we got to explore that side of her a little more. Eventually, she would be more at ease in Dante's presence and I'm sure she would find a way to become more open.

That being said, did anyone of you read The Chronicles of Vergil? It wasn't that great, but in my opinion it was worth it for Kat's sass alone. She called Vergil "destiny boy". xD

I think I'll take this to my 'quotes' thread.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Pretty much one of the only Devil May Cry girls that actually has a purpose other than being eye candy.

I know this post is almost a year old, but the thread got necro'd so what the hell.

Hmm? Who exactly qualifies as eye candy in the original series? Trish and Lady were huge parts of the plot. Lucia's role had similarities with Kat's; finding Dante and getting him to help, turning him from an arse to someone who cared enough to help, filling him in on the game's plot, etc. Matier was basically Lucia's Vergil. DMC4 is the only game where you can honestly say that they were just there for eye candy.

 

[Innsmouth]

As part of the plot she has her place. Since without her, there was 0 motivation for Dante to act at all. As character she's pretty useless. Pretty much everything she can, Vergil can also ( he taught her himself). So that pretty much makes her akin to Kyrie in DMC4. She's pretty much standard Damsel in Distress. Maybe she could have grown, but her role wasn't developed enough to make her irreplaceable character

 

[InfernalOverkill]

I'm ashamed you didn't notice her usefulness when Dante and Vergil spoke of it. I'm ashamed you didn't notice her usefulness throughout the stages in the game and the cut-scenes.

When captured she used her powers to get the layout of Mundus's building. So, when she was being tortured, she does OBE and goes to help the cause instead of sitting there looking pathetic. That makes her top notch useful.

"Without Kat, we would've failed over and over" These are Dante's words.
"Kat was useful but..." Vergil's own words.

I don't believe anyone who claims Kat wasn't useful has played the game. Either that or they're salty everyone who's in DMC 1-4 isn't as useful.

Oh? Let's compare:

Kat:

• Recruits Dante to the Order

• "Saves" Dante from HD. Ok, so she exposed his weakness, big deal. Dante has been hunted by demons for most of his life, he'd either have found a way to kill it or would've escaped
  
• The plan to hit Mundus. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have Kat to recce the place for them, they could've just fought their way through.

Trish:

• Alerts Dante to Mundus' awakening. Albeit with dubious intentions, but still.
• Takes a demonic bullet for him. After betraying him, BUT STILL!
  
• Gives him demonic steroids in order to kill Mundus, thus saving his life.

That last 1 is fairly important. Dante simply didn't have the power to defeat Mundus, especially not after the genius decision to leave Sparda behind. If not for Trish, Dante would've died right then and there.

Dante without Trish = dead

Dante without Kat = inconvenienced


Go ahead and rank Kat above Lady all you want, she literally did nothing. In fact, without her being there Dante probably would've just killed Arkham and that would've been that. No Lady-bloody = no hellgate or Sparda-power. Was Kat useful? Yeah. Was she more useful than Trish? NOPE.JPG

 

[DragonMaster2010]

As part of the plot she has her place. Since without her, there was 0 motivation for Dante to act at all. As character she's pretty useless. Pretty much everything she can, Vergil can also ( he taught her himself). So that pretty much makes her akin to Kyrie in DMC4. She's pretty much standard Damsel in Distress. Maybe she could have grown, but her role wasn't developed enough to make her irreplaceable character

Vergil had to stay hidden from sight so how could he have gone out there and helped? A Damsel in Distress isn't what I'd call Kat, because despite her being captured, she did have a part to play. She was responsible for giving the play by play on how to get through Mundus's tower. If Vergil had done it, he would've been discovered quicker by not knowing where the security room is and helping Dante from there.

To compare her to Kyrie who basically did nothing and got captured to Kat who actually did help Dante through out the game like weakening the Hunter's armor, creating circles to get in and out of Limbo, that egg timer that can shift the area around that tunnel, not giving away Vergil's true identity while enduring plenty torture (which would be extremely traumatic for her since she was physically abused countless times by her step father) and giving a play-by-play on how to navigate through Mundus's tower ALL while trying to overcome her own issues is almost inconceivable.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Vergil had to stay hidden from sight so how could he have gone out there and helped? A Damsel in Distress isn't what I'd call Kat, because despite her being captured, she did have a part to play. She was responsible for giving the play by play on how to get through Mundus's tower. If Vergil had done it, he would've been discovered quicker by not knowing where the security room is and helping Dante from there.

To compare her to Kyrie who basically did nothing and got captured to Kat who actually did help Dante through out the game like weakening the Hunter's armor, creating circles to get in and out of Limbo, that egg timer that can shift the area around that tunnel, not giving away Vergil's true identity while enduring plenty torture (which would be extremely traumatic for her since she was physically abused countless times by her step father) and giving a play-by-play on how to navigate through Mundus's tower ALL while trying to overcome her own issues is almost inconceivable.

Liked because **** Kyrie. Even her voice annoyed me.

However, why does everyone harp on about this?
"not giving away Vergil's true identity while enduring plenty torture"
Mundus had NO idea that Sparda had twins. As far as he knew, Dante was the only child. She refused to let anything about Vergil slip - and fair play for that, but his identity as a nephilim? No one even thought to ask her that. That secret was literally never at risk.

Honestly, the whole astral projection thing was stupid to begin with. Evidently no one can see Kat whilst she's doing it, and Vergil taught her how to do it, so why couldn't Vergil just project into the tower and recce it? Plot armour, yay.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Oh? Let's compare:

Kat:

• Recruits Dante to the Order

• "Saves" Dante from HD. Ok, so she exposed his weakness, big deal. Dante has been hunted by demons for most of his life, he'd either have found a way to kill it or would've escaped
  
• The plan to hit Mundus. I'm pretty sure if they didn't have Kat to recce the place for them, they could've just fought their way through.

For the first one, Apparently there were more then one that was sent at him. Whether they all had the bullet proof ability or not is a mystery.

And for the second, how would they have found a way in if Mundus has eyes and ears everywhere? Vergil wouldn't have discovered the secret entrance unless Kat showed him the way. It would've wasted more time.
Trish:

• Alerts Dante to Mundus' awakening. Albeit with dubious intentions, but still.
• Takes a demonic bullet for him. After betraying him, BUT STILL!
  
• Gives him demonic steroids in order to kill Mundus, thus saving his life.

So basically what Kat did with the Hunter
That's true.
So...two times Trish has helped him compared to-how many times Kat's helped Dante? 11 times I counted.
Was Kat useful? Yeah. Was she more useful than Trish? NOPE.JPG

For me, Trish only seemed like the woman to remind Dante of his mother while playing with him on an emotional and almost psychological level.

 

[Innsmouth]

Vergil had to stay hidden from sight so how could he have gone out there and helped? A Damsel in Distress isn't what I'd call Kat, because despite her being captured, she did have a part to play. She was responsible for giving the play by play on how to get through Mundus's tower. If Vergil had done it, he would've been discovered quicker by not knowing where the security room is and helping Dante from there.

To compare her to Kyrie who basically did nothing and got captured to Kat who actually did help Dante through out the game like weakening the Hunter's armor, creating circles to get in and out of Limbo, that egg timer that can shift the area around that tunnel, not giving away Vergil's true identity while enduring plenty torture (which would be extremely traumatic for her since she was physically abused countless times by her step father) and giving a play-by-play on how to navigate through Mundus's tower ALL while trying to overcome her own issues is almost inconceivable.

Well funny part is that in most cases when Kat helped Dante, Vergil was there (like in mansion). As for plans for Mundus Tower, first it isn't even clear when she got plans, second, yes she helped. Would it work without her help? Easy. Like I said. She's plot device. She barely have connection to other characters, aside from her fanatical devotion to Vergil. Basically she's there only to serve as motivation for Dante, otherwise she'c completely useless, generic character.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

For me, Trish only seemed like the woman to remind Dante of his mother while playing with him on an emotional and almost psychological level.

Well...yeah......that's what she was created to do. That's why she looks like Eva. The point is that when she decided to tell Mundus to **** off and she went to help Dante, she became the most valuable ally we've had throughout any of the games so far. She directly helped, no, enabled him defeat the king of hell.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Liked because **** Kyrie. Even her voice annoyed me.

However, why does everyone harp on about this?
"not giving away Vergil's true identity while enduring plenty torture"
Mundus had NO idea that Sparda had twins. As far as he knew, Dante was the only child. She refused to let anything about Vergil slip - and fair play for that, but his identity as a nephilim? No one even thought to ask her that. That secret was literally never at risk.

What was at risk was Vergil's existence, not his origin. But all Kat did was drop his name, and that's it. Not his ties with Dante or what he was. When you're tortured, sometimes you confess a lot of things just for relief. Kat, on the other hand, held all that in.

Honestly, the whole astral projection thing was stupid to begin with. Evidently no one can see Kat whilst she's doing it, and Vergil taught her how to do it, so why couldn't Vergil just project into the tower and recce it? Plot armour, yay.

Who said Vergil knew how to do it? Maybe Vergil read a book on it and taught her the basics from it. Vergil never said he himself knew how to astral project. in the comics that wasn't his astral projection that was literally him in Limbo. And ask for her astral projection, how do you know Mundus couldn't see her? Mundus isn't like his minions, he's the boss who has more power then minor demons. If anything she could've stayed out of his sight by hiding about or slipping through the floors and walls.

 

[InfernalOverkill]

Who said Vergil knew how to do it? Maybe Vergil read a book on it and taught her the basics from it. Vergil never said he himself knew how to astral project. in the comics that wasn't his astral projection that was literally him in Limbo. And ask for her astral projection, how do you know Mundus couldn't see her? Mundus isn't like his minions, he's the boss who has more power then minor demons. If anything she could've stayed out of his sight by hiding about or slipping through the floors and walls.

Did Kate not say something along the lines of "he taught me everything" in the game? It's been a while since I've done anything but play BP mods.

If he could see her, he probably wouldn't have let her do it. Kat herself said she first AP'd to escape physical abuse; if Mundus knew she was APing out of her body whilst torturing her, it'd somewhat defeat the purpose of torturing her.

 

[Innsmouth]

There is also huge difference because both Trish and Lady are acting as characters on their own. They aren't bound to Dante, Vergil or anybody else. They appear or disappear when they want. (Also both were partially antagonists in their games.) Kat can't exist outside of her connection to Vergil and the Order. That's main problem with helpless characters as she was.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

In

Well funny part is that in most cases when Kat helped Dante, Vergil was there (like in mansion).

So two times he was there (mansion and bridge) and the rest was her and Dante.

As for plans for Mundus Tower, first it isn't even clear when she got plans, second, yes she helped.

She's had a full layout of the building ever since they saved her. She's had plans to use that knowledge already.

Like I said. She's plot device. She barely have connection to other characters, aside from her fanatical devotion to Vergil. Basically she's there only to serve as motivation for Dante, otherwise she'c completely useless, generic character.

Isn't that like calling Trish generic too since she's also there to fit as Dante's mother figure?
The fact that Kat has been the person whose been the most help for Dante and Vergil says more about her tactical skills then her picking up a gun and shooting. A character doesn't have to be an action hero and have super powers in order to have a purpose. *cough* John Constantine *cough*.

Well...yeah......that's what she was created to do. That's why she looks like Eva. The point is that when she decided to tell Mundus to **** off and she went to help Dante, she became the most valuable ally we've had throughout any of the games so far. She directly helped, no, enabled him defeat the king of hell.

Helping twice, after screwing over the main character and making him question his own good morals isn't an ally. That's a motivation. A reason to change. A plot device in itself. I don't mind Kat being called a plot device, but that doesn't mean you ignore your own plot devices as well.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Did Kate not say something along the lines of "he taught me everything" in the game? It's been a while since I've done anything but play BP mods.

Yeah, but that doesn't mean HE knew how to do it. I could teach someone how to swim when I myself don't know how. I read a book on it, and can apply that knowledge to someone who can swim.

If he could see her, he probably wouldn't have let her do it. Kat herself said she first AP'd to escape physical abuse; if Mundus knew she was APing out of her body whilst torturing her, it'd somewhat defeat the purpose of torturing her.

I'm pretty sure your body doesn't miraculously heals while out of body. Plus for all we know she could have suffered wounds to her soul while outside her body. Like every hit her body takes, she feels it too.

Also keep in mind that maybe she escaped her body AFTER the torturing.

There is also huge difference because both Trish and Lady are acting as characters on their own. They aren't bound to Dante, Vergil or anybody else. They appear or disappear when they want.

So THAT makes Kat useless? Because she can't fight or be on her own? That's a terrible excuse. Just because a character can't be on their own, doesn't automatically make them useless. While Kat was with Vergil and Dante, she DID pull her weight as the psychic and as a tactician.