How much of DMC's gameplay is in DmC?

[TWOxACROSS]

That's is sort of beside the point. It doesn't matter if it carries the name or not, because games and their mechanics evolve over time. Even Assassin's Creed's controls and mechanics changed, sometimes drastically, from where it began.

It's not a matter of the judgment, that doesn't matter in what I was talking about, I'm legitimately talking about people saying something doesn't work because they expect it to work like it did in a previous iteration, when it in fact works just fine in the confines of its own mechanical system.

You can totally expect an aspect to be one way or the other, but once you actually get it in your hands, you need to learn how that game specifically handles that aspect. Continuing to just be p!ssy about it and refusing to learn that games system is just childish.

And that's sort of the thing, people say that DmC is bad, and doesn't work, but we have plenty of TrueStylers and OppWri here with videos that show people handling the entire system just fine, and even making it bend to their will. Those that continue to say it doesn't work in the face of all the people who have actually bothered to learn (and master) the game's system just shows a childish unwillingness to bother.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I'd just like to add, It's not that DmC is 100% perfection and doesn't have issues (hint: there's a reason I make mods). I just don't think the a hard lock on is one of them at all, because it would go against the core design behind its combat encounters, and would require major changes to such things like enemy AI.

Contrary to what some people think, DmC's AI is not stupid, in fact its much more intricate than some of the older games, where the enemies just approach the player with a single thought pattern: Kill. For a good example of how this kind of AI programming can ruin combat for certain games, compare playing the first two Arkham city games vs the new one, which not was not made by Rocksteady.

In the last batman game, Arkham Asylum, the enemies would adjust to your rhythm, because like DmC they were programmed to try to break your combos and would react appropriately with logic when choosing their attacks, however, in Arkham Origins, the enemies just assault you relentlessly. There's no rhyme or logic to their AI, its just HEY, BATMAN, ATTACK ATTACK ATTACK, and it makes what was once an incredibly fun free flow system into a slightly less satisfying more counter laden experience.

So, long things short, my overall point is that even though this kind of kamikaze AI, which the older DMC's also had, may on the surface seem smarter, because it makes the fights more "difficult" in some people's eyes, it really isn't. It is the most basic and simple AI imaginable, unfair and single goal oriented.

 

[OppressedWriter]

DMC 3 it can be an endless chain as a keepway or a stagger(they will breakthrough). Not paused like DMC 4 and DmC.

Dude, I know you haven't played the game. But you can do the same in DmC, in fact its even faster to flow from enemy to enemy during combat and transition after an attack like fireworks, which you cancel out of or into using other attacks like a stomp.

So you add that with Aquillas round trip as a way to prioritize enemies? That sorta kills the purpose of one weapon is contradicting the other as a way to prioritize.

What the heck are you talking about? What is so contradictory? Are you just basing this off of some loading screen tip about how you can roundtrip an enemy to keep them busy? I meant Ricoshot will spread out enemies just like fireworks, so that you can easily point the stick in one of the directions and easily angel or demon pull an enemy without targeting issues.

Prioritizing. If you think that one enemey is a threat; your going to go after him. In DmC instead when a Rage is right in front of them and I aim the control stick at him to go get him, I somehow get the Elite Sytigan, an enemy I don't want to attack just yet.

Because guess what, DmC is telling you that your PULL is being blocked. The enemy is creating a phalanx to protect the other enemies window for a potential attack. So, pretty much, at that point you have several options, demon pulling and angel pulling are not the best ones and are likely to get you hit. If you played DmC, you would realize trying to pull a specific enemy if there's a mass of enemies cluttered together is a bad idea, because the AI is programmed specifically to create those phalanxes. That's why I keep repeating the tactics to spread out enemies so you can easily target the ones you want with angel or demon pulls.

So the Kick(Demon) and the Punch(Angel) are just there for nothing?

Wrong. See all of above....

Except your hitting a glass ceiling when it comes to imagination(this statement is subjective). Your given everything on a silver platter with little to no effort to discover whats so ever, no thrill to see how much time and work you put into mastering that combo.(I see your combo videos, their meh, but you do put a lot of heart into the combos)

I put lots of time and work into mastering the combos so they look good and cinematic. I mean by all means go ahead and do the following without any effort and make it look stylish.

Fight a DMD dreamrunner with the constant style switching without them dropping you to the ground in one continuous string not dodging or demon pulling them at all.

Juggle a butcher on the ground after a 360 camera rotation jump cancel combo in the air.

And oh don't forget mastering gun charges and the timings of showdown bounces so so you can do a ricoshot, shotgun bomb, showdown bounce, and finish with an overdrive in a seamless combo.

Until you this, spare me the "Meh' and backhanded criticism. Because right now its transparent you simply have a raging hard on against DmC for other reasons.

 

[VineBigBoss]

This only proves your bias, I'm glad you're willing to accept my challenge, but this comment is the reason I find it hard to take your opinion towards DmC seriously. The subtext here is NO WAY I"M PAYING FOR DmC, OR IF I DO I"M BUYING IT USED! Because I don't want this game to succeed. Going in with that bias how are you ever going to be subjective in your analysis of a game, and how can you post so much stuff like it is fact when you really haven't even played the game.

To be honest i just proposed a used game because it's cheaper. You can send one new one too, lol, no problem with it. The point is that i not expending my money on a game that i don't want to see developed furthermore in the expense of the old DMC series, if people that like it want to gift me, i have no problem with it.

I've played the game in a friend's PC, for about two weekends, as well as tested the demo in the time it was released for some days. I still don't played Vergil's Downfall.

By the way, it's true that i don't wanted the game to succeed, but at this point all that could happen already happened.

 

[OppressedWriter]

By the way, it's true that i don't wanted the game to succeed, but at this point all that could happen already happened.

I don't have an issue with you disliking the game because as a fan of the classic lore you feel that the success of this game would hurt the chances of seeing the old series returning. What does bother me though is to see you criticize the game play, when you really haven't given it a chance.

You would never see me criticize DMC3 or DMC4 in a similar way especially in regards to the game play, because first I actually like DMC3 a lot, and think DmC is very much inspired by it. And second, because I would be lying if I said said DMC4 does not have a great combat system, my issue with 4 is the camera and controls, which I think are flaws that artificially make the game more difficult. This is why I like DmC so much, to me it is depth of DMC3/4, except now with more intuitive controls.

I've played the game in a friend's PC, for about two weekends, as well as tested the demo in the time it was released for some days. I still don't played Vergil's Downfall.

Btw, you really should play downfall, if you like DMC3 as much you say you do, you'd really love playing as Vergil, yes its still easy, but as a Vergil fan you'll just love how powerful and fun they made him in the dlc, you can cancel all his attacks both in the air and ground using either of his dodges:trick up or trick down.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Hey, guys and gals, if you haven't had a chance to see DmC at 60fps with 20% turbo on PC, I just made a little recording, there's a minor audio sync issue, but that was on my end. Anyway, check it out and you'll get a better understanding of how much more fluid and fun the gameplay really is vs the console versions.

It's about 200 megs, not too big for a 720P recording of me playing at 1080p with 60 frames per second and 20% turbo.

True 60 FPS 20% Turbo DmC Footage Download

 

[TWOxACROSS]

The point is that i not expending my money on a game that i don't want to see developed furthermore in the expense of the old DMC series

Y'know...this isn't even true. Nothing is done at the expense of anything. DmC has no effect on the classic series whatsoever; not canonically, not fiscally.

Remember that if DmC hadn't been made, there would be no more Devil May Cry period. Everyone says "a reboot was unnecessary" but in Capcom's eyes, it was totally worth a shot, considering it was a low-selling franchise and they hadn't done anything with it for years. Itsuno was probably content to continue work on expanding Dragon's Dogma.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Y'know...this isn't even true. Nothing is done at the expense of anything. DmC has no effect on the classic series whatsoever; not canonically, not fiscally.

Remember that if DmC hadn't been made, there would be no more Devil May Cry period. Everyone says "a reboot was unnecessary" but in Capcom's eyes, it was totally worth a shot, considering it was a low-selling franchise and they hadn't done anything with it for years. Itsuno was probably content to continue work on expanding Dragon's Dogma.

This is so true. It makes me a little sad that so many people think DmC was just some souless cash grab, because it is one of the rare games where I genuinely believe that both Capcom and NT worked hard to make something special. I wish more people would give it a real chance and appreciate it for what it really is, a new devil may cry experience.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

This is so true. It makes me a little sad that so many people think DmC was just some souless cash grab, because it is one of the rare games where I genuinely believe that both Capcom and NT worked hard to make something special. I wish more people would give it a real chance and appreciate it for what it really is, a new devil may cry experience.

Found another "mechanic" that DmC has that the other Devil May Crys didn't, which I have decided to call: Weapon effect canceling Video evidence:

Also do you know if there's "weapon canceling" in DmC? (weapon canceling is skipping the cool down on a weapons attack by switching to another one, it's how people are able to rapid shot the kalina ann in DMC3 by switching back and forth between it and the pistols with every shot they take) Video evidence:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That would mostly fall under the Gun/Shot Cancel, because you're just canceling with the gun. Can be done in DmC with E&I like so...

...and with Revenant, which can perform a cancel loop with Shot>Fireworks>Shot>Fireworks>Shot. I suppose it can be done with Kablooey as well, but it's not as practical as the others, in my honest opinion.

 

[MKH Spartan]

Btw, you really should play downfall, if you like DMC3 as much you say you do, you'd really love playing as Vergil, yes its still easy, but as a Vergil fan you'll just love how powerful and fun they made him in the dlc, you can cancel all his attacks both in the air and ground using either of his dodges:trick up or trick down.

I disagree a bit, I main Vergil in DMC3, but in the new DmC he just has such a limited movelist compared to Dante and plays nothing like how Vergil does in DMC3 at all, plus new Vergil becomes a complete ****ing dick by the end of the DLC, making me like new Dante in comparison to him, and I don't like new Dante very much at all (and considering old Vergil is my favourite character in DMC yea, that's saying something for me to hate the new version so much).

Plus in the main story, he never has the balls to fight the demons he just hides behind his damn shield, first time he fights is on Mission 19 against Mundus, and that wasn't even his choice, Mundus grabbed him.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I disagree a bit, I main Vergil in DMC3, but in the new DmC he just has such a limited movelist compared to Dante and plays nothing like how Vergil does in DMC3 at all, plus new Vergil becomes a complete ******* **** by the end of the DLC, making me like new Dante in comparison to him, and I don't like new Dante very much at all (and considering old Vergil is my favourite character in DMC yea, that's saying something for me to hate the new version so much).

Actually Vergil is more flexible compared to DMC3. He attacks with more force and style compared to old Vergil who, yes had force, didn't really have the feeling of someone who was "stylish but also dark". Vergil in DMC3 had a more powerful effect with his style, while DmC Vergil is more flexible and stylish looking in comparison. Not many people want to admit it, but that's just how I feel about it all; New Vergil's just more stylish.

Also, new Vergil's transformation by the end of the DLC is pretty much old Vergil. Cares nothing for who gets in his way, becomes borderline insane for power, but the only differences are that New Vergil is willing to throw away his ties with his friends, his brother, and even his own mother (something old Vergil would never do) just to gain power.

Plus in the main story, he never has the balls to fight the demons he just hides behind his damn shield, first time he fights is on Mission 19 against Mundus, and that wasn't even his choice, Mundus grabbed him.

Because that was the point. Vergil wasn't trying to be discovered. If he had fought that demon in mission 12, he would've been discovered by Mundus's henchmen and that would jeopardize the plan. He had to hide from Mundus so that he could take him by surprise by sealing the Hell Gate.

 

[AcidX_Y]

Hey, guys and gals, if you haven't had a chance to see DmC at 60fps with 20% turbo on PC, I just made a little recording, there's a minor audio sync issue, but that was on my end. Anyway, check it out and you'll get a better understanding of how much more fluid and fun the gameplay really is vs the console versions.

It's about 200 megs, not too big for a 720P recording of me playing at 1080p with 60 frames per second and 20% turbo.

True 60 FPS 20% Turbo DmC Footage Download

Looks so smooth, hope they bring the next one to ps4. Does the game actually run at 1080p or is it up-scaled?and some of the effects like the parry spark and Revenant bomb look different, did you edit them or is that because of the better visuals?

 

[OppressedWriter]

Looks so smooth, hope they bring the next one to ps4. Does the game actually run at 1080p or is it up-scaled?and some of the effects like the parry spark and Revenant bomb look different, did you edit them or is that because of the better visuals?

Yeah, it can scale up to whatever the player wants, I can actually play 2560 x 1600, its that for recording purposes the 60 fps at 1080p is a bit brutal to do on my PC, plus encoding the footage takes forever, so I just recorded it at 60 fps 720p while playing at 1080p for demonstration case.

Long story short, DmC looks gorgeous and buttery smooth, deserves a 60 fps 1080p release on next gen with 20% turbo so people can appreciate its untapped potential.

Oh, yeah the effects some of them are modded, they should update those as well, they're the work of a guy named Zeromancer, he up rezzed many of the particles, but my two favorites are the fire gloves for the eryx, and the parry/glide effect has a glyph so it feels more like Skystar Glide.

I disagree a bit, I main Vergil in DMC3, but in the new DmC he just has such a limited movelist compared to Dante and plays nothing like how Vergil does in DMC3 at all, plus new Vergil becomes a complete ******* **** by the end of the DLC, making me like new Dante in comparison to him, and I don't like new Dante very much at all (and considering old Vergil is my favourite character in DMC yea, that's saying something for me to hate the new version so much).

Plus in the main story, he never has the balls to fight the demons he just hides behind his damn shield, first time he fights is on Mission 19 against Mundus, and that wasn't even his choice, Mundus grabbed him.

Dude. As dragonmaster said above, there's a narrative reason for why he doesn't fight, and as for the moveset, DmC Vergil has all the moves that DMC3 vergil has, I honestly thing you've mastered DMC3 combat so much that its hard for you to adapt to the new control scheme, which is totally fine, but you're honestly wrong about his moveset.

Anyway, check this out for real, I put a lot of time into it.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Also do you know if there's "weapon canceling" in DmC? (weapon canceling is skipping the cool down on a weapons attack by switching to another one, it's how people are able to rapid shot the kalina ann in DMC3 by switching back and forth between it and the pistols with every shot they take) Video evidence:

Oh, yeah, the weapon cooldown effect is how I did the dreamrunner shotgun bomb, rainstrom loop, if you don't time the weapon switches properly, then dante's cooldown for the revenant bomb isn't fast enough for the inertia glide after the payoff attack.

 

[Tiran]

I know this is one area in which we have disagreement, but I want to elaborate a little more about the lock on.

Hard lock like Dark Souls would be fine I suppose, but trust me it would just simply make the game harder, because it would override a lot of the natural rhythms in combat and target priotization, you'd see a bunch of complaints about how its so annoying switching targets while locked on and what not.

I honestly think they took it out because aside from the stinger input, there's more harm it will do to 95% of players, who will try to use it. For example, what do you think will happen when you fight dreamrunners and harpies, how exactly would the lock on work? How does it stay centered on enemies if they're flanking you or moving too fast without the issues of not being able to react fast enough against them. Right now, if you aim towards the right enemy right as they're about to attack DmC is very smart about picking the right target to interrupt.

Another thing is the brilliant one button dodge, I think that it auto orients Dante and that having Dante be on a fixed center camera would override that so you'd have to dodge manually, which would again do more harm than good.

Anyway, you should really try putting center camera on R1, and you'll see the lock on mechanic is there and pretty functional.

The hard-lock would really be to focus on teleporting, flying or fast moving single enemies. I personally needed it for the hordes of lying creatures and for singling out closely spaced enemies without having to spam the guns to know who I'd attack first. It keeps you focused on the most dangerous enemy in a dense crowed of potential targets, even if that enemy is moving around quickly. (think Blitz from Dmc 4) I can't tell you how often I've fallen in Vergil's downfall 'cause I couldn't angel lift onto another enemy after fighting off the edge in the air.

Personally, I'd prefer no lock-on at all, but this game is not Ninja gaiden(My favorite action games). The enemies are such that given the crazy (and gorgeous) environment, the group combat tactics, and combat style, I'd prefer that option for those... itchy moments.

Hey, guys and gals, if you haven't had a chance to see DmC at 60fps with 20% turbo on PC, I just made a little recording, there's a minor audio sync issue, but that was on my end. Anyway, check it out and you'll get a better understanding of how much more fluid and fun the gameplay really is vs the console versions.

It's about 200 megs, not too big for a 720P recording of me playing at 1080p with 60 frames per second and 20% turbo.

True 60 FPS 20% Turbo DmC Footage Download

..... Yes... YES... YES... YEEEEESSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MKH Spartan]

Because that was the point. Vergil wasn't trying to be discovered. If he had fought that demon in mission 12, he would've been discovered by Mundus's henchmen and that would jeopardize the plan. He had to hide from Mundus so that he could take him by surprise by sealing the Hell Gate.

Or he could've grown a pair and killed the henchmen so they couldn't report back to Mundus anyway, plus they pulled him into Limbo, so doesn't that imply he is Nephilim anyway? Let alone the whole white hair thing being a bit of a giveaway, it's implied to be a Nephilim trait in DmC I think? (Not 100% on that last part)..

Dude. As dragonmaster said above, there's a narrative reason for why he doesn't fight, and as for the moveset, DmC Vergil has all the moves that DMC3 vergil has, I honestly thing you've mastered DMC3 combat so much that its hard for you to adapt to the new control scheme, which is totally fine, but you're honestly wrong about his moveset.

He has some of the same Yamato moves from DMC3, but he only has one move from Beowulf (Starfall/Killer Bee, same thing more or less) and two from Force Edge (if you count his new versions of Helmbreaker/Hightime as Force Edge moves), all the rest were removed so that is definitely not all his old moves by a long shot.

I can adapt to the new control scheme, I just think that the gameplay in DmC is average/meh, so I haven't taken the time to learn it in-depth like I did for DMC3/DMC4, and I also still believe the combat would be better if they implemented a PROPER lock-on feature, none of this centre camera half lock on stuff.

Also, I happen to like old Vergil's character, whereas I do not like new Vergil at all so that also does influence my opinion to a degree. My point is that while new Vergil is a new movelist etc to play around with and complete missions with, saying that he plays like DMC3 Vergil I do completely disagree with, as approximately 2/3rds of his old moves are no longer there and his playstyle is very different.

Also, I completely admit that I mostly play DMC3 and it is my favourite game in the Devil May Cry series, closely followed by DMC1/DMC4, while I am not much of a fan of DmC, I think the gameplay is "passable", just nothing too special and I disagree with a few points of the games combat system.

It's still leagues better than DMC2's combat however, I would never try to argue otherwise lol.

 

[AcidX_Y]

It's still leagues better than DMC2's combat however, I would never try to argue otherwise lol.

I never played DMC2, what was so bad about it?

 

[Tiran]

I never played DMC2, what was so bad about it?

Among it greatest faults, it's just ungodly dull. It's sooo much just the same uninspired tone, poor design and shallow combat. Their are sections where all you hear are the sounds of emptiness and Dante's boots tapping the stone ground over and over. His personality is dull and he barely speaks. It's just boring, really. Look up a walk-through on YouTube and see if you can stand even a half hour of that.

Adam Sessler once gave that game a 5 out of 5 on x-play. He gave DmC a 3 out of 5 'cause he did'nt like the new Dante, however...

 

[TWOxACROSS]

He did have some cool lines in DMC2 though. Few and far between, but they were cool.

I also still have to give props to DMC2 for being the game that created a lot of the stuff we like using in DMC to this day