How much of DMC's gameplay is in DmC?

[Exejpgwmv]

I have heard many people say that DmC is a bare bones hack and slash, with very little depth and not even half the complexity of the older DMC's. So naturally I did some research to see if some the claims some people were making were correct.
And from my research I have found all the mechanics(as far as I know) that the older DMC's had that are also in the new DmC(feel free to inform me if I have missed any).

1. Jump canceling
2. Pause combos
3. Perfect timing attacks(or "just frame attacks")
4. Switching to a different weapon during a pause combo so that the combo ends as if you had used the weapon you had just switched to.
5. Dash cancelling. Video evidence for 1-5:
   and
6. Dynamic parrying(Although it is a bit more practical now) Video evidence:
7. Directional input attacks.
8. Charge attacks
9. Gun charge attacks Video evidence for 7-9:
10. Buffering
11. Gun canceling Video evidence for 10-11:
    and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kdIXYIlXZLU

Things I cannot provide video evidence of(or can't be bothered to because I'm lazy).

1. Enemies and Bosses get different attacks as you increase difficulty levels.
2. Enemies have immunity to certain attacks(although it is much more severe in DmC than in the classics).
3. Enemies can Devil Trigger.
4. Secret missions.
5. Ability to grapple to enemies(but is much more useful and noob friendly in DmC)
6. Weapon Canceling.

Things DmC has that the originals didn't (as far as I know).

1. Demon dodge(or anything like it).
2. Double charge shot. Video evidence for 1-2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqN_hCOEcAs and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L50J2b1-N5I
3. Attack speed increases as style rank goes up. Video evidence: dmc devil may cry 攻撃速度について(about attack speed) - YouTube
4. Weapon effect canceling Video evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWEMsdRX2_o&list=PLBQWbQFlqZQ5BYa_2Q8Z4tG4cTyCiKaMV

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Number 4 actually wasn't in the classics as far as I can remember - that like, Shift Pause combo was something new for DmC.

 

[aoshi]

Ability to grapple to enemies(but is much more useful and noob friendly in DmC)

Well, Nero's exceed and max-act ability are much more useful abilities for grapple mechanics than a hybrid of abilities from both nero and dante. Ya know, DevilBringer + Multiple weapons - buster. Its rather casual than useful.

Things DmC has that the originals didn't (as far as I know).

1. Demon dodge(or anything like it).

Nope, Already defined as table-hopper for nero in DMC 4.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Well, Nero's exceed and max-act ability are much more useful abilities than a hybrid of abilities from both nero and dante. Ya know, DB + Multiple weapons - buster. Its rather casual than useful.

"Casual than useful." What does that even mean...?

Nope, Already defined as table-hopper for nero in DMC 4.

Tablehopper doesn't give you an attack boost though. At least I don't remember it doing so, but I also hardly ever used it.

 

[aoshi]

"Casual than useful." What does that even mean...?

It means its jus easy to use and does not deal any damage unlike buster in DMC 4. Grapple mechanics were first used in DMC 4 which are way better than DmC.In the least, Grapple was borrowed from DMC 4.

Tablehopper doesn't give you an attack boost though.

Well, he included (or anything like it).

but I also hardly ever used it.

Congratulations, You are now officially a noob.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

It means its jus easy to use and does not deal any damage unlike buster in DMC 4. Grapple mechanics were first used in DMC 4 which are way better than DmC.In the least, Grapple was borrowed from DMC 4.

Well, Ophion is more a utility move, like Neros' Snatch. Payoff and Kicker would be the analogues to Buster

Well, he included (or anything like it).

Considering Demon Dodge is an ability that gives you an attack bonus for dodging at the right time, and there's nothing else that works like that...

Closest analogue to Demon Dodge would be Just Guarding given it protects you from damage, and then Release's power was just transferred to an overall damage buff.

Congardulations, You are now officially a noob.

Oh noes~ So I never used the move because I didn't have the Proud Souls to buy it at the time, and I played as Dante more than an Nero anyway.

 

[aoshi]

Well, Ophion is more a utility move, like Neros' Snatch. Payoff and Kicker would be the analogues to Buster

OP's exact quote was 'grapple' and not jus snatch when DmC only had snatch and not exactly grapple mechanics. So, that's one missing from classic DMC in DmC. A grapple would technically be analogous to a throw in fighting games. Buster is a throw. Pay-off and kicker are'nt exactly throws.

Considering Demon Dodge is an ability that gives you an attack bonus for dodging at the right time, and there's nothing else that works like that...

The idea for a timed dodge makes demon dodge similar to table hopper. Nero is a powerhouse as it is. There was no need of extra perk of attack bonus. Besides, Dante didn't even have a weapon with max-act/exceed mechanics.

Closest analogue to Demon Dodge would be Just Guarding given it protects you from damage, and then Release's power was just transferred to an overall damage buff.

Both table-hopper and demon dodge are evade mechanics. Guarding is block. Block and evade are very different. Jus timing the dodge does not make it a block. In fact, Even if you demon dodge successfully, If you haven't made enough ground away from enemy, you will get hit. But guarding(a perfectly timed one) will guarantee no damage.

In any fighting game, evade and block exist as seperate properties and their functionality isn't exactly inter-changeable.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

OP's exact quote was 'grapple' and not jus snatch when DmC only had snatch and not exactly grapple mechanics. So, that's one missing from classic DMC in DmC. A grapple would technically be analogous to a throw in fighting games. Buster is a throw. Pay-off and kicker are'nt exactly throws.

His exact words were "grapple to enemies," which, semantics aside, is really just talking about pulling on targets, which is Snatch's purpose - to pull (or be pulled to) targets.

The idea for a timed dodge makes demon dodge similar to table hopper. Nero is a powerhouse as it is. There was no need of extra perk of attack bonus. Besides, Dante didn't even have a weapon with max-act/exceed mechanics.

Yeah, I got it; Tablehopper is a timed dodge. But that's it. It doesn't offer a buff, which is the entire point of Demon Dodge...

In any fighting game, evade and block exist as seperate properties and their functionality isn't exactly inter-changeable.

You could probably stop comparing them to a completely different genre, and instead just realize that I was talking about how their two defensive abilities :/ Just Guarding is a defensive ability that protects one from damage and offers a big payout of meter for Release; Demon Dodging is a defensive ability that protects one from damage and offers a damage bonus.

The fact that one is a block and another is a dodge is beside the point. Demon Dodge's existence was to be an analogue to Royal Guarding and Releasing, while parrying was to Just Guarding.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

OP's exact quote was 'grapple' and not jus snatch when DmC only had snatch and not exactly grapple mechanics. So, that's one missing from classic DMC in DmC. A grapple would technically be analogous to a throw in fighting games. Buster is a throw. Pay-off and kicker are'nt exactly throws.

1. If you actually look up the definition of "grapple" you would know it only means to "seize or hold something or someone" not to throw anything.
2. Regardless of how powerful Nero is or is compared to Dante, tablehooper is only similar to DD in that fact that you have the time your dodge, but everything about it, from the timing, animation, and the advantages it gives to the player it is both aesthetically and mechanically different.
3. The whips in DmC are more useful and noob friendly than Nero's grapple because the whips, grab from a longer distance, stops you from falling allowing for longer combos, allows you to freely bring yourself to enemies and bring enemies to you(unlike Nero's grapple which most of them time only works one way), and (obviously) is much easier to execute.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

On a side-note, I'm having a lot of fun spinning those bullet numbers!

 

[aoshi]

If you actually look up the definition of "grapple" you would know it only means to "seize or hold something or someone" not to throw anything.

No..Grappling includes throws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling

Throws: A throw is a technique in which one grappler lifts or off-balances his or her opponent and maneuvers him or her forcefully through the air or to the ground. The purpose of throws varies among the different disciplines of grappling with some emphasizing throws with the potential to incapacitate the opponent, while leaving the thrower standing, or to gain a takedown or controlling position.

My knowledge is from action games like SF where a throw/grapple is a technical counter to a blocking opponent(whose intention is to block strikes and not a throw). Hence if not anticipated, a throw cannot be blocked as a normal strike.
Similarly, dante cannot block buster even with royal-guard.

Furthermore

Grappling does not include striking or most commonly the use of weapons.

And on the subject of what's missing in DmC,
1)A dedicated lock-on.
2)Taunt.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

On a side-note, I'm having a lot of fun spinning those bullet numbers!

Yeah about that, is there any reason why they are so cartoonishly big?

 

[Chancey289]

Grappling and grapple are two different words.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

SEMANTICS

Regardless of how the term is being used, he wasn't referring to Buster (which you were). He was referring specifically to Ophion's Lift and Pull analogues to Nero's Snatch.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Yeah about that, is there any reason why they are so cartoonishly big?

No clue, actually. I didn't even know they existed, hahaha.

Grappling and grapple are two different words.

This too, considering "Grappling Hooks" don't throw anything.

 

[aoshi]

Grappling and grapple are two different words.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grapple

a: the act or an instance of grappling

*Face-palms of epic proportion*:facepalm:

 

[TWOxACROSS]

1. Harble
2. Darble
3. Snarble
4. Flap

EDIT: Yup, they're crazy big O_O

 

[Chancey289]

This too, considering "Grappling Hooks" don't throw anything.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Where does he get those wonderful toys?

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grapple

a: the act or an instance of grappling

*Face-palms of epic proportion*:facepalm:

Please consider that while grappling in martial arts can involve throws, throws themselves are not grapples - they are throws. Grappling is holding something, when you throw something, you cease holding it. The one exception is some martial throws where you keep a hold on the opponent, but even then, it's still just a throw.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

No..Grappling includes throws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grappling



My knowledge is from action games like SF where a throw/grapple is a technical counter to a blocking opponent(whose intention is to block strikes and not a throw). Hence if not anticipated, a throw cannot be blocked as a normal strike.
Similarly, dante cannot block buster even with royal-guard.

Furthermore


And on the subject of what's missing in DmC,
1)A dedicated lock-on.
2)Taunt.

1. Dude, you just linked me to a wiki page. Anyone and everyone with an internet connection can edit a wiki. I got my definition of the word grapple from multiple websites made and run by professionals specifically for the purpose of defining words: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grapple http://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/grappling http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grapple
2. A grapple can lead into throw, but grappling someone does not mean specifically to throw them.