How could have Capcom "reconstructed" the old series?

[Sieghart]

I don't understand at all why people complain about "DMC being an anime.

The thing is, nobody would complain if only the writing is better. I think dante had enough character development too but the problem is the inconsistency of his personality(From 3,1,Anime, and to 4,2) and how they executed it. The consistency through 3,1 and Anime is pretty good in my opinion.

If only...if only DMCs writing is more on Seinen(Such as Berserk, Vinland saga or Vagabond), i think it would do really well.

 

[Macabre]

The thing is, Vergil is not intended BY THE WRITERS to have much depth beyond an antagonist to conflict Dante and give him reason for what minimal character growth happened in DMC3. They have even said they don't like Vergil as a character and have little regard for him.; It's kind'a why his entire fate was resolved in DMC4 in a recap of the first four games that blurbbed an explination that he was already DEAD as Nero Angelo, and a throw away line to Nero that explained what Yamato was.

An interview if possible?

You claim DMC3 supposedly tells it's story through inference, direction and body language and that it's depth isn't speculation. From playing DMC3, you interpreted that there is some depth to the characters. From my experience, the characters are not deep at all which you and TC clearly disagree with. That is what I was getting at. No one is necessarily right or wrong.

My point was mostly just say that one shouldn't get upset at someone breaking down the plot of DMC3 to someone else in a discussion of what the previous games represented and how best to reinvigorate the series. It's not so much a question of "depth of plot" so much as it is detailing how 3 allowed the player to come to their own conclusions on certain plot elements and how for some players this is much more compelling than having the entire plot neatly laid out for them.

It's certainly a more preferable approach if the alternative is to have levels constantly interrupted by cutscenes and unskippable conversational scenes like the intro to the Virility Factory.

God of War actually handles story telling fairly well. Gameplay goes uninterrupted for long stretches, cutscenes tend to be striking and sometimes scenarios in the plot influence the gameplay in interesting ways, such as defending Kratos's family in the first game. It's had it's moments like the Virility Factory, such as the walk through Sparta in the second PSP game, but even that scenario was bereft of verbal exposition and allowed the atmosphere of the scene to infer what was happening.

What other games/scenes would you like to influence Devil May Cry's design?

 

[VineBigBoss]

The thing is, nobody would complain if only the writing is better. I think dante had enough character development too but the problem is the inconsistency of his personality(From 3,1,Anime, and to 4,2) and how they executed it. The consistency through 3,1 and Anime is pretty good in my opinion.

If only...if only DMCs writing is more on Seinen(Such as Berserk, Vinland saga or Vagabond), i think it would do really well.

I agree with you in this, and i've written a whole topic in my first post about reconstructing and giving more sense to Dante's personality over the time.

 

[CheeseKao]

What other games/scenes would you like to influence Devil May Cry's design?

All I ever want from a devil may cry game is simply good game play with good story. I wouldn't mind if there are a few comedic elements here and there but the campiness needs to be turned down. MGS games are perfect examples. It is, for the most part, a serious game but stuff like the paradox scenes, looking at toilet bowls, The Sorrow screwing around in the back and all that stuff are pretty amusing and they generally come in small doses.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

I want the underworld in DMC to be truly menacing and scary like it was in DMC1, these are the perfect examples that could aid in capturing that feeling again.

 

[Sieghart]

As much as i love that entire plot twist in the anime, it's nothing compared to the graphic content in it's original source material. The manga.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Well with me, I'd always assume that the reason Dante's so different in each game is more on time, and events.

DMC3-He's gotten too big for his boots, and believes he's the baddest thing on Earth, but after going through temi ni gru, having to see Lady's struggles, and being forced to possibly kill his own brother, could have made him a bit more serious.

DMC1-Now he's well rounded and is use to the demon hunting while still having a little fun with it. However that all changed when Trish came in and he felt a deeper feeling inside him that's made him a bit more solemn, but at least relieved that Trish was okay. Though the fact that he had to defeat and possibly kill his brother again hit him hard. And then Trish left which made him feel a bit lonely and bored as well, but also sad too.

DMC anime-We see Dante now bored with hunting since there's no challenge for him to take. He takes demons down with no issues while still being bored in his office. But a warm sunshine called Patty comes in to try and open him up. And with every episode, we see Dante smile more and more. With Brad and Angela, he felt a remembrance of his mother and father because Brad was a demon who was in love with a the human woman Angela. And Trish started showing up and Dante felt a bit more happy again. And finally at the end when he's more then psyched for another mission is him being more ready to go.

DMC4-Though I find this Dante the f*ck up of all the Dante's, I think I have a reason why he is how he is. At first, Dante wasn't to interested in doing the mission when Lady presented it. Plus he seemed more content now that Trish was back with him. But when Lady mentioned them worshiping a demon as a god (Sparda) this peeked Dante's interest for a second, and finally decided to get it over with to keep him occupied. But then Trish took the Sparda, and he was forced to go. Getting there, he finds out that there's another person who's related to Sparda, which gets him happy that he's found Nero, but decides to go back to his antics from DMC3, because he figured he'd be cheeky with Nero as he was with his last blood relation to his father Vergil. Now, I thought it was dumb that he didn't even worry or lift a finger to help Nero when he was getting absorbed by the Savior, but hey, that's just how writing can be in the eyes of Capcom. Any who, Dante finally got Vergil's sword to Nero but when Nero didn't respond right away, Dante got worried and when he finally felt Nero again, he urged Nero to end this so that he can destroy the savior and make sure Nero still lives. At the end, Dante was content and left in a better mood knowing that he wasn't alone in the world.

DMC2-Now for DMC2, I believe that it has something to do with everyone. Lady probably passed away from one of her missions. Humans get old, and sometimes they can't do what they use to back then and thus she slipped up and was killed by a demon whom Dante must have massacred. Then Nero was next to suffer as he must have almost died but instead lost his demon arm or it was cut off of him, thus breaking his ability to use Yamato and it then felt as though Dante lost Vergil all over again. And finally Trish dying or sacrificing herself for Dante, which hits him again because he loved Trish like a lover and as a mother, and him seeing Eva die all over again put him in complete depression. Thus leading to years in the future, where Dante is alone and no one visits him. Morrison probably died of old age, and Patty probably moved away. So when he heard of a mission in Vidu Marie, he thought he might as well accept. He still has a job to do.

But that's my thoughts on it.

 

[Gel]

Now my two cents on the subject:

DMC4 Dante was so similar to DMC3 self because people asked and Capcom gave that to them, with the results everybody already know.
While I couldn't call myself a DmC fan, I feel Nt Dante was treated unfairly: he is called a sexual deviant because he had a threesome with two girls and Vergil is mocked for feeling unloved by his mom, while people let old Dante get way with a weird fixation on a clone of his late mother who was made as a honey trap to get him. This situation is even made fun in theatral representations where Oedipus and Jocasta together fight and lock the Sphinx and go live together; Oedipus only talks about sex and food and they have an assistant who is in love with him but he ignores her; gods appear to attack him and so on, all of this with Marvel vs Capcom3 soundtrack( is this familiar to anyone?) From a psychological point of view, the true sexual deviant was old Dante, not NT one.
That was a point I would like to have explained on the old series, since that was one of most disturbing facts about it that make a lot of people avoid the old series and having preference for this reboot.
If Capcom could rework that part in the old series I would be thankful, since the series deserve more than being remembered by most people by this weird fact.

(Sorry, english is not my first language)

 

[Sieghart]

What in the blue hell are you saying? Barbas called dante a sexual deviant as a "propaganda."

 

[Stylish Nero]

Now my two cents on the subject:

DMC4 Dante was so similar to DMC3 self because people asked and Capcom gave that to them, with the results everybody already know.
While I couldn't call myself a DmC fan, I feel Nt Dante was treated unfairly: he is called a sexual deviant because he had a threesome with two girls and Vergil is mocked for feeling unloved by his mom, while people let old Dante get way with a weird fixation on a clone of his late mother who was made as a honey trap to get him. This situation is even made fun in theatral representations where Oedipus and Jocasta together fight and lock the Sphinx and go live together; Oedipus only talks about sex and food and they have an assistant who is in love with him but he ignores her; gods appear to attack him and so on, all of this with Marvel vs Capcom3 soundtrack( is this familiar to anyone?) From a psychological point of view, the true sexual deviant was old Dante, not NT one.
That was a point I would like to have explained on the old series, since that was one of most disturbing facts about it that make a lot of people avoid the old series and having preference for this reboot.
If Capcom could rework that part in the old series I would be thankful, since the series deserve more than being remembered by most people by this weird fact.

(Sorry, english is not my first language)

Only 2 girls we've seen. It was stated Dante goes to that same club pretty often and lets not forget this game art.

Dante's fixation to Trish isn't that odd or odd. I mean its not like he wanted to f*c her or something. This chick looks like his mom and he gets sad she died protecting him despite saying all those crude things about her and labeling her as devil and all he wanted to do was save her. As shown in DMC3 and hinted in DMC4, Dante still has some family issues (being incapable of killing his own brother and trusting Nero with his brother's sword and letting him do what he wants).

Plus what are you talking about in MvC3 theme?

 

[Gel]

When I was talking about calling Nt Dante as sexual deviant, I was not talking about Barbas in this case.I'm talking about persons (real people who treat this version as a freak because of this concrete cause and let the late case pass.
Mvc3 themes was the soundtrack used on the theatrical representation I cited above.
About the mother issues: yes, he has mother issues, what is very natural since he witnessed his mother demise and even in his adulthood ( DMC1 Novel) he has violent nightmares about it.But as stated above Trish was made as a honey trap to get Dante romantically, if we go for what is said by Mundus in VJ implying the insertation of a seed in her ( heart or not) feeded by love to open the portal who keeps Mundus locked.So she was conceived as the ideal woman for Dante and if Capcom wouldn't give the franchising to other director, we pretty much could had they having a sexual/ romantic relationship. Even so Capcom never shut down this possibility clarifying the nature of this partnership. That was one of the points about the story I would see at least explained once and for all.
About Vergil, there is already an official Capcom book called Trinity of Fates which explain the true motivations of him in DMC3, but , as always, it was only in Japanese , being fan translated years later.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Now my two cents on the subject:

DMC4 Dante was so similar to DMC3 self because people asked and Capcom gave that to them, with the results everybody already know.
While I couldn't call myself a DmC fan, I feel Nt Dante was treated unfairly: he is called a sexual deviant because he had a threesome with two girls and Vergil is mocked for feeling unloved by his mom, while people let old Dante get way with a weird fixation on a clone of his late mother who was made as a honey trap to get him. This situation is even made fun in theatral representations where Oedipus and Jocasta together fight and lock the Sphinx and go live together; Oedipus only talks about sex and food and they have an assistant who is in love with him but he ignores her; gods appear to attack him and so on, all of this with Marvel vs Capcom3 soundtrack( is this familiar to anyone?) From a psychological point of view, the true sexual deviant was old Dante, not NT one.
That was a point I would like to have explained on the old series, since that was one of most disturbing facts about it that make a lot of people avoid the old series and having preference for this reboot.
If Capcom could rework that part in the old series I would be thankful, since the series deserve more than being remembered by most people by this weird fact.

(Sorry, english is not my first language)

Interesting point you have here haha. I've already thought about this but doesn't give my thoughts that much importance, but i think that Dante only sustains a friendship besides a sexual/romantic relation with Trish because she looks like his mother, and he doesn't express too much but it's highly implicit that he still miss his mother (if i remember well, in the animation he says that he will meet his dear one in his dreams when talking with Paty), if it was other case he surely would see her much more as a lover and would find his way to reach this. But it's really a weird (but interesting) decision to make a character from.

 

[Gel]

Interesting point you have here haha. I've already thought about this but doesn't give my thoughts that much importance, but i think that Dante only sustains a friendship besides a sexual/romantic relation with Trish because she looks like his mother, and he doesn't express too much but it's highly implicit that he still miss his mother (if i remember well, in the animation he says that he will meet his dear one in his dreams when talking with Paty), if it was other case he surely would see her much more as a lover and would find his way to reach this. But it's really a weird (but interesting) decision to make a character from.

While I'm not sure they really have any kind of sexual relationship or romantic for that matter, with Trish, it's very implicit he does seems to unconsciously projects his momma unto Trish.As said on Sacred Heart book ( an official guide of Capcom), he follows her just she looks like his mom and the book describes her as an exact copy of Eva.Eva's theme is played to Trish.In the end he thinks if Trish will die like his mom since they share the same face. From Trish's part is weird too, since Kamiya said in his twitter she has a true demonic form, she only assumed Eva's form( or better her appearence) because she feels comfortable with it. In anime, if I remember well, he says to Patty he will meet two beauties or sweethearts.While most of people saw for the first time Trish lampshaded her looks and the weirdness of it in Umvsc3, it was Patty who appointed that first in a Anime Cd Drama only released in Japan when Patty asks if Trish and the woman in the photo are the same.When the situation was explained to her, she made a disgusted face saying " So Dante is a mazakon ( mother complex)?" and Dante became annoyed with it and everybody laugh about it. This was supposed to be a gag, but japanese fans didn't like it and now he figures in the good looking but disappointing characters in Japan. This " partnership" is even repulsive in Japan, a country known for kinky stuff.
I still woud like to know if they're connection is more than friendship.

 

[Stylish Nero]

While I'm not sure they really have any kind of sexual relationship or romantic for that matter, with Trish, it's very implicit he does seems to unconsciously projects his momma unto Trish.As said on Sacred Heart book ( an official guide of Capcom), he follows her just she looks like his mom and the book describes her as an exact copy of Eva.Eva's theme is played to Trish.In the end he thinks if Trish will die like his mom since they share the same face. From Trish's part is weird too, since Kamiya said in his twitter she has a true demonic form, she only assumed Eva's form( or better her appearence) because she feels comfortable with it. In anime, if I remember well, he says to Patty he will meet two beauties or sweethearts.While most of people saw for the first time Trish lampshaded her looks and the weirdness of it in Umvsc3, it was Patty who appointed that first in a Anime Cd Drama only released in Japan when Patty asks if Trish and the woman in the photo are the same.When the situation was explained to her, she made a disgusted face saying " So Dante is a mazakon ( mother complex)?" and Dante became annoyed with it and everybody laugh about it. This was supposed to be a gag, but japanese fans didn't like it and now he figures in the good looking but disappointing characters in Japan. This " partnership" is even repulsive in Japan, a country known for kinky stuff.
I still woud like to know if they're connection is more than friendship.

Now aren't you looking into this a bit hard. 75% of the stuff you said I never heard about and seems you pulled straight out of nowhere or misinformed/indirect sources.

Unless your from Japan or have proof I see this as bull.

 

[Gel]

Now aren't you looking into this a bit hard. 75% of the stuff you said I never heard about and seems you pulled straight out of nowhere or misinformed/indirect sources.

Unless your from Japan or have proof I see this as bull.

Ok, you have the right of asking, so there it goes:

Trish has a true form:

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

( it seems twitter doesn't work on here. Sorry, please go to http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Trish and see the twitter messages on that page.

Trish has an exact face of his mother and Eva'stheme is played to her: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/dmc1-sound-dvd-booklet-text.12344/#post-392367
Cd anime drama is here: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/drama-cd.11749/#post-375035 ( unfortunately just has the major plot).
A girl named Cat translated to me the mazakon part( other part are just random dialogue in the first cd)
今こそ我らを使うときではないのか！？」　ダンテ「お前らはいい…」 ひでぇ。

"Isn't now the very time for you to use us?!"

Dante replies "nah, no need." That's so mean.

・ダンテの意思に関わらず、アラストルが飛んできたーっ！！やっぱりダンテのこと大好きなんだね！（マテ​

Alastor flew over regardless of Dante's decision/will/intention!! It must really like/love Dante a lot! (xx --> this part I don't get it/can't translate)

・「久しぶりの再会だ…ちょっと遊ぶか、アラストルよ」 ここでアラストルにキスとかしちゃってればイイ。（超妄想​

"Been a long time since we last met... let's play a little, Alastor." It'd be nice if he kinda kissed Alastor at this moment/part. (super delusion ---> my comment = is it just me or this part totally sounds gay? lol not that i have any issue with it lol

・ラウンドトリップでレディを助けたよ…！ラウンドトリップなんて使いこなしたことねぇよ！（へタレ​

I saved Lady with Round Trip...! I've never actually mastered Round Trip! (good-for-nothing

・トリッシュ「気をつけて、それはイフリートっていうの。迂闊に触ったら火傷するわよ～」​

Trish says "Be careful. That's Ifrit. You'll get burned if you touch it carelessly."

火傷どころじゃないと思います。（byゲーム本編​

I think it's beyond just a burn. (by the original Game

・パティ「ダンテって、マザコンなの？」​

　トリッシュ＆レディ「（笑）」​

　ダンテ「笑うなお前ら！」​

​

Patty says "Do you have a mother complex Dante?"

Trish and Lady laugh.

Dante says "Don't laugh you two!"

恥ずかしいとは思ってるのか（笑​

Are you embarrassed? (LOL

・そしてまたエンツォの元に送られる魔具っ…！！（涙​

And then the Devil Arm that was sent to Enzo...!! (Cry

・エンツォとアグルドめっちゃ仲良いんですけど（爆​

Enzo and Agurudo (I dunno who this is) are very close. (word-is-incomplete

・ていうか最後の最後までアグルドかい​

パティは写真のﾏﾏﾝをトリッシュだと思ってるし
まさかダンテにあんな過去があるとも思ってないだろうし
「ダンテってマザコンなの…？」って変な顔しながら言うのは
原作を知ってる人間がﾆﾖﾆﾖするギャグ部分と思ったけどなｗ
それよりモリソンがエヴァとトリッシュの事とか過去の事を知ってる方が
よほど変な気がする
エンツォが知ってるなら分からんでもないが、ぽっと出の
アニメオリジナルキャラが知ってるのってどうよ
Translated more or less as:
The patty thinks the maman of the photograph to be Trish, and will not think it to be it possibly even if Dante has such past; and "Dante is a mother complex"…? Morrison knows Eva and Trish than gag part and 思 ったけどな w it that the human being that it knows the original to say while "does a strange face does feels like being very strange
The animated cartoon original character that I understand it if Enzo knows it, but am with a blush is intellect .

This is what I have now with me, but if anyone japanese could correct the text please?

About her being a honey trap, just see Trish description on Mvsc3: A woman made by Mundos to seduce and destroy Dante. Or just play as Dante in VJ until the end.

 

[Stylish Nero]

The Twitter link isn't showing.

 

[Gel]

Go to http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Trish please! at the end of that page you find two twitters.It's the first one.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Go to http://devilmaycry.wikia.com/wiki/Trish please! at the end of that page you find two twitters.It's the first one.

Kamiya (who only worked on the 1st one) says he "Believes so"....not a very valid source considering anything Kamiya wanted to do with DMC possibly never happen (well at this point never happened).

But whether Trish has a demonic form or not is something we should wait and see...ohh gee yes that is right we'll probably never find that out due to DmC.

 

[Gel]

Well, Kamiya doesn't want to touch DMC now, even if he says to ask Capcom.If he could touch DMC he would just reboot everything again, but now he doesn't has Mikami to give that special in game atmosfere and to tame Kamiya's silliness.
About Trish lampshaded her looks, it's a way of Capcom acknowledges the weirdness of Dante and her having something sexual/ romantic.And Kamiya confirms she wasn't a love interest in DMC1, but VJ gives a light he planned them to be more than companions and friends. Instead of a lover she seemed to become a mother figure and a guardian to Dante, subverting Oedipus Complex on a Missing mom complex( without sexual connotations). And no, he is no oedipal, since he flirts with every female ( almost) he contacts, but he doesn't seem to flirt with Trish( In DMC1, he only jokingly flirts with her until he sees her face .).
Nobody said OG DMC Universe was completely abandoned.I guess Capcom is now thinking what they should do next, sine if you go to DmC facebook page, you will see that time to time they talk about old DMC, so don't give up yet.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

BayoxDante bitches