How could have Capcom "reconstructed" the old series?

[berto]

Im a chick here, and yes i am thinking of Kojima

Alright, lass, why Kojima? Hi games are not exactly know for their action outside of cinematics and even MGR wasn't something he directed, which is the most compatible to DMC, so why him?

 

[Awake]

Alright, lass, why Kojima? Hi games are not exactly know for their action outside of cinematics and even MGR wasn't something he directed, which is the most compatible to DMC, so why him?

Sorry i read your post wrong though you called me a dude...but in any matter Kojima would fit in because he can help out with the story, Capcom can make the design and Platinum can make the gameplay, now I am not saying that they are limited to that. What I am trying to make my point is that even though Kojima would do the story he is not strictly bound to the story. To make it simple Kojima and Kamiya would make the meat of the burger and then you get capcom and platinum...no need to get a western development team to work on the story. like kojima once said, its time to show that Japanese games aren't dead.

 

[Macabre]

It's a mistake to think that Kojima can save the writing of any project he is put onto. Just look at Front Mission.

My favourite suggestions for a writing credit on a hypothetical Devil May Cry game would probably be Neil Gaimen or Ben Aaronovitch, but that's me. Hell, call up SWERY. He'd make an awesome DMC.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

a DMC written by Neil Gaiman? When do we sell Itsuno's soul to Satan?

 

[Macabre]

a DMC written by Neil Gaiman? When do we sell Itsuno's soul to Satan?

Why would we do that? Don't you like having good gameplay?

 

[Dante Redgrave]

Why would we do that? Don't you like having good gameplay?

Yes, but I also like having a good story to go with it, and heavy borrowing from the "in vogue" animes of the time hardly qualify. I'd offer up Morihashi Bingo for having been one of the main writers for DMC3 and 4...but he's hardly a worthy sacrifice since all he does is copy from the big anime's that are popular at the time he's working on stuff.

 

[VineBigBoss]

I don't understand at all why people complain about "DMC being an anime". I've watched some animes through my life and the only real "anime" thing i see in DMC is Dante's white hair, the personality of Vergil is somewhat anime-ish too, but that's it for DMC3. The first DMC doesn't look like an anime at all. And in DMC4 Nero and Kyrie looks like they've jumped out from an anime to DMC, but it's not that much too.

Someone could explain to me in what points DMC does looks like an anime?

 

[Dante Redgrave]

It's not just looks but also the plotting and lack of real character depth. When you really look at it, DMC3 and 4 Dante are very shallow character renditions; the deepest you get with DMC3's rendition is he garners a sense of justice. But he's still a classic example of the japanese archtype of the hothead fireblooded young hero you see so often in anime and mangas such as Inuyasha, Dragonball, Bleach, Ranma 1/2, ect ect...as well as Vergil being the classic "stoic and desiring more power" atagonistic anti-hero that is perfectly controlling of his emotional reactions.

 

[VineBigBoss]

It's not just looks but also the plotting and lack of real character depth. When you really look at it, DMC3 and 4 Dante are very shallow character renditions; the deepest you get with DMC3's rendition is he garners a sense of justice. But he's still a classic example of the japanese archtype of the hothead fireblooded young hero you see so often in anime and mangas such as Inuyasha, Dragonball, Bleach, Ranma 1/2, ect ect...as well as Vergil being the classic "stoic and desiring more power" atagonistic anti-hero that is perfectly controlling of his emotional reactions.

We were discussing about Vergil depthness in DMC3 on another topic here on this forum, you should take a look. They're not that shallow and the development of Dante is good in DMC3, and i remeber doing some commentary about his development there, but just in case i don't i will try to explain it here to you. I will link the topic with the Vergil discussion to you too: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/what-made-vergil-be-the-way-that-he-was.15416/

And about Dante, his development is quite good and "clear" on DMC3. He starts the game doesn't giving any flying **** to humanity, family or all that things, he just wanted to see what his brother was up to. During the first battle they had a conversation about protection (probably refering to their inability to protect their mother) and Dante ended beated by Vergil. At this point Lady were already introduced to him, and later he had another encounter with Lady standing near Arkham's body, and there they had their first conversation about family and he being a demon, it made Dante question some things about himself, at that time Dante had already fought with Beowulf who hates Sparda on a very passionately way, and was there where he started to see that his father legacy is a burden that he needs to carry on, and a quote from him after that fight was: "Why i have to take all the heat for my father?". And them he meets with Lady for a third time, they fought and had a important conversation to show Dante's development:

(Starts near 1:20:20)

Here he takes reponsibility and starts to be more like a hero than a careless young man. And i think the conclusion (that you can watch again in this video) talks for himself, he really accepted that he is the son of the Legendary Sparda and try to follow his footsteps by protecting humanity in his very own way, exactly what Donte does on the end of DmC but he puts it into clear words (and this is where the writters of DMC3 messed up things, they have subtle ways to tell things to the players).

 

[Dante Redgrave]

~snips for space~

...thank you for treating me like some inept fool who has never played the game and has no frame of reference rfor what I'm talking about. THat's not only offending, but insulting of my intelligence and my worth as a fan of the series since 2001. Wlcome to Limbo, Lilith and Mundus say hello.

 

[VineBigBoss]

...thank you for treating me like some inept fool who has never played the game and has no frame of reference rfor what I'm talking about. THat's not only offending, but insulting of my intelligence and my worth as a fan of the series since 2001. Wlcome to Limbo, Lilith and Mundus say hello.

I'm not >implying that you've never played the game before, it's just that i like to enter in details to explain things.

You've said that Dante and Vergil has no depthness at all, i don't think it's fair if you know all the things that i've put here. He had a clearly development in DMC3, and we've seen some of his story as a "person" too, with makes us care more about him.

Sorry for offending you.

 

[LysseC]

We were discussing about Vergil depthness in DMC3 on another topic here on this forum, you should take a look. They're not that shallow and the development of Dante is good in DMC3, and i remeber doing some commentary about his development there, but just in case i don't i will try to explain it here to you. I will link the topic with the Vergil discussion to you too: http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/what-made-vergil-be-the-way-that-he-was.15416/

And about Dante, his development is quite good and "clear" on DMC3.

I took part in the discussion of the topic you speak of, and, as much as I loved trying to analyze Vergil, I still think that all we did there was just fan speculation. The problem is, as much as that speculation could make sense, the hints we are actually given in DMC3 are simply too minimal to say that there really is some depth to Vergil character in the games imo. What we use to speculate are some quick lines, sinlge words, a small inflection here and there. There's a lot of difference between what we are shown of Dante and what we are shown of Vergil. Vergil's characer simply leaves too much to the spectator's reasoning.
That's why I think that, if ever Capcom wanted to improve the old series, one of the topics they would surely have to address is Vergil and his characterization.

However, I completely agree with you on everything else you said about Dante (and in your first post in this thread).

 

[VineBigBoss]

I took part in the discussion of the topic you speak of, and, as much as I loved trying to analyze Vergil, I still think that all we did there was just fan speculation. The problem is, as much as that speculation could make sense, the hints we are actually given in DMC3 are simply too minimal to say that there really is some depth to Vergil character in the games imo. What we use to speculate are some quick lines, sinlge words, a small inflection here and there. There's a lot of difference between what we are shown of Dante and what we are shown of Vergil. Vergil's characer simply leaves too much to the spectator's reasoning.
That's why I think that, if ever Capcom wanted to improve the old series, one of the topics they would surely have to address is Vergil and his characterization.

However, I completely agree with you on everything else you said about Dante (and in your first post in this thread).

I had this opinion back there too, and this "lacking" of information (in the case of Vergil in DMC) can be a crappy storytelling (probably) or a design choice (or they can make it look like that in future explanations about the story). Dark Souls has a storytelling full of this kind of things, i'm not trying to compare the two stories and worlds as whole, don't get me wrong, Dark Souls has a much richer world, explanations, plots and leaves some things vague on purpose to the player theorize and "interact" more with the world itself. All we've said in that Vergil thread is not necessarily true, but it could be as the character hints so much things to us, and some things looks like hints but are likely more direct telling to us what's going on (i.e. Vergil falling on the waterfall and swinging Yamato on Dante's gloves + Dante keeping that tattered gloves in his shop as a keepsake). The writters and people who made the animations don't made it clear for us, players, it was expected at some extent at least Vergil changing his expression but this too doesn't look much like Vergil, so i digress on this subject haha.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

The thing is, Vergil is not intended BY THE WRITERS to have much depth beyond an antagonist to conflict Dante and give him reason for what minimal character growth happened in DMC3. They have even said they don't like Vergil as a character and have little regard for him.; It's kind'a why his entire fate was resolved in DMC4 in a recap of the first four games that blurbbed an explination that he was already DEAD as Nero Angelo, and a throw away line to Nero that explained what Yamato was.

 

[DarkSlayerZero]

A lot of people complain (and with reason!) about DMC storyline, narrative, character development, plots and things like this.

So how could Capcom have reorganized this?

Easy, just sell the series to Platinum Games.

We'd have the real Dante back(DMC1), a consistent prequel/prologue(DMC1 Novel), and would get a real sequel or possible Bayonetta/DMC crossover.

The DMC series has sooo much potential but idiotcom wants to ride on the anime train, if it were up to me, I'd have alot of Berserk influenece.

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

That is a bit excessive, mate. The same could be argued about wanting a DmC2, where the hell does that leave anyone?

I was thinking of people who wanted DMC but was given DmC which they did not want. There are those who like DmC, and my comment was not directed at them.

It is directed at all gamers who wanted DMC, but got DmC, which they didn't want, and who are fans of Dante (original).
If Capcom makes a DMC 5, and they support it then they have no self respect and believe in something (Dante) that is no longer worth believing in.

If Dante is going to be turned into nothing more than a greed brand (which he has become), then what's point of being fan of him? Capcom don't care about the character besides having him around for monetary gains.
They ****ed over Dante when they decided to reboot him.

And that is unforgiveable to me as a fan of that character.
They didn't expand upon DMC franchise as they stated, they replaced it. There is no DMC 5 announcement, and Capcom has clearly expressed that they want to outsource their projects. I don't speak or direct my statement at DmC fans. What they do is their business. But i speak for myself as a DMC fan, and direct my statement to fellow DMC fans (and fans of Dante). Because you can be fan of the character Dante without caring much for the core of DMC (the gameplay).

DmC Dante isn't a independt character, which is why DmC is such repulsing to me. DmC Dante rides on the wave of original Dante to be perceived as popular. Doing things he does.
Throughout the game they have emphasized that DmC Dante is "Dante"!.
Pizza, attempting at being funny, white hair, finger gesture etc.
And i bring this up because this is again SIGNS of Capcom attempting to replace Dante in our hearts. The character we love.
Clearly they failed. If they succeeded i guarantee you that DmC Dante would replace original Dante in all other and not only Playstation allstar.



This is why i think any DMC fan who didn't care for DmC, have no self respect. And that their fandom is void because it's been corrupted by corporal greed (MORE THAN usual).

Easy, just sell the series to Platinum Games.

We'd have the real Dante back(DMC1), a consistent prequel/prologue(DMC1 Novel), and would get a real sequel or possible Bayonetta/DMC crossover.

The DMC series has sooo much potential but idiotcom wants to ride on the anime train, if it were up to me, I'd have alot of Berserk influenece.

I think best farewell to DMC and Dante in DMC games would be a crossover game with Dante and Bayonetta.
We could then say farewell to this loved character.

I agree Platinum games having Dante's rights would be awesome.

 

[Macabre]

...thank you for treating me like some inept fool who has never played the game and has no frame of reference rfor what I'm talking about. THat's not only offending, but insulting of my intelligence and my worth as a fan of the series since 2001. Wlcome to Limbo, Lilith and Mundus say hello.

But he's perfectly correct though. DMC3 actually tells it's story through inference, direction and body language rather than through direct monotone exposition and constant intrusive cutscenes. The depth isn't just fan speculation, it's right there in the product the actors, writer and director made for us, and the fact that it doesn't implicitly lay down every single plot detail and allows it's characters to have some enigmatic elan is exactly what has invited such feverish discussion of the series for so many years.

Getting defensive because he had the audacity to explain the points you are glossing over is unfair.

Easy, just sell the series to Platinum Games.

The thing about giving the IP over to Platinum (Quite apart from the fact that the Japanese code of honour in business would probably prohibit it) is that Platinum has several design leads working within it, and each of them would probably take the property in a different direction. i'm pretty sure that Kenji Saito would make a very different DMC from Hideki Kamiya or Atsushi Inaba if they were put in charge of the project. You have to consider which of them you'd want in control of the project to decide what kind of Devil May Cry you want them to create.

Then there's design ethos. Platinum and Clover before them have always designed games based around what they wanted to make rather than what the market was telling them to do, and their lack of overwhelming financial success is illustrative of that. They tend to publicize their products poorly (although that's arguably the publisher's fault) and sometimes drop support altogether (I'm looking at you, Anarchy Reigns). They never endeavour to produce a PC version of their games, and thereby shut themselves off from a significant amount of the market that could improve their overall take on a project.

My point is that while I'd love to see what they'd do with the license, I'm not convinced that they would ensure a rosy future for the franchise any more than NT have. I want DMC to succeed financially as well as being a great game series, and Platinum haven't proved they can provide that yet.

 

[CheeseKao]

But he's perfectly correct though. DMC3 actually tells it's story through inference, direction and body language rather than through direct monotone exposition and constant intrusive cutscenes. The depth isn't just fan speculation, it's right there in the product the actors, writer and director made for us, and the fact that it doesn't implicitly lay down every single plot detail and allows it's characters to have some enigmatic elan is exactly what has invited such feverish discussion of the series for so many years.

Getting defensive because he had the audacity to explain the points you are glossing over is unfair.

Not everyone interprets things the same way you know.

 

[Macabre]

Not everyone interprets things the same way you know.

Did I say that they do?

 

[CheeseKao]

Did I say that?

You claim DMC3 supposedly tells it's story through inference, direction and body language and that it's depth isn't speculation. From playing DMC3, you interpreted that there is some depth to the characters. From my experience, the characters are not deep at all which you and TC clearly disagree with. That is what I was getting at. No one is necessarily right or wrong.