How can this combat system be expanded?

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

I have xb1 and may twitch stream it when 4 se comes out but my wifi is crap so the quality will be crap , however i plan to make loads of game dvr's for my yt channel

 

[Stylish Nero]

A lot of moves weren't Style-exclusive nor required some Style swap to begin.

Like how Drive was a charge move for Rebellion in DMC3 but changed randomly to be a Style-specific move in DMC4.

Fireworks started out as a dial-up combo finisher in DMC2 but became Style-specific in DMC3 onwards.

Beast Uppercut was something you can do regardless of Styles in DMC3 but in DMC4, you need Swordmaster switched on to use it.

It's like I said, "Styles" is just a means to regulate the large moves arsenal.
If they can have all moves available without Style swapping, then it would be much better.

Well for DMC4 Rebellion's charge attack was changed to Round Trip ala Alastor from DMC1 to replace Drive from DMC3 Rebellion.

If there is one thing I learned from playing DmC and MGR as well as Bayonetta is that Hold R1/RB + forward + attack IMO is more convenient and comfortable than double forward + attack. Although in Bayonetta you can do both.

 

[Goldsickle]

If there is one thing I learned from playing DmC and MGR as well as Bayonetta is that Hold R1/RB + forward + attack IMO is more convenient and comfortable than double forward + attack. Although in Bayonetta you can do both.

If there's anything I learned from Raiden's slide and DmC Vergil's Rapid Slash, is that a shoulder button + analog stick + face button maneuver is best when it's not lock-on dependent.

 

[Stylish Nero]

If there's anything I learned from Raiden's slide and DmC Vergil's Rapid Slash, is that a shoulder button + analog stick + face button maneuver is best when it's not lock-on dependent.

You mean the slide move that is like Stinger or when Raiden does sweeping attack with his feat while running?

 

[Goldsickle]

You mean the slide move that is like Stinger or when Raiden does sweeping attack with his feat while running?

Raiden's slide uses the same input as Stinger (R1 + Forward + Triangle) but is executed much more smoothly.

It's due to the fact that holding R1 doesn't make Raiden walk slowly (but sprints) and you don't have to tilt towards a specific enemy but any direction you desire.
Sometimes, I press R1 in the thick of the battle in DMC3 or DMC4 and Dante locks on to the enemy behind him, so I end up doing a High Time instead of a Stinger.

DmC Vergil's Rapid Slash almost uses the same input (but L2 instead of R1) but it's also executed much more fluidly than DMC3 Vergil's Rapid Slash.
Same reasons, such as Vergil not walking slowly when a shoulder button is held down and he doesn't have to specifically tilt towards a locked-on enemy.

Hack and slash games are more fluid when the signature moves are not lock-on dependent.

The Forward, Forward, Attack input is still somewhat of a problem, though.

 

[Innsmouth]

Lack of lock-on inputs increases missed hits possibility. Everyone who played games like NGS, NGS2 and other harder HnS should know this. It works for games like DmC because most enemies can be easily looped, allowing to keep style meter high. It becomes much more of a problem in games like older DMC where enemies are much more capable to defend themselves. Another aspect to consider is design of surrounding. Most of DmC's surrounding are giant allowing you easily get to another side of the room as such constant running is a must. In original you was much more close and personal to enemies, so running wasn't needed due to closer quarter combat / smaller rooms.

 

[scionicspectre]

Yeah, I think there's a big difference between the benefits of a combat 'modifier', as is the common use for directional inputs, and the ability to maintain focus and automatically target a single enemy. I think you can separate these concerns and make significant progress on each without sticking to the same control scheme.

I think that's what we all really want to see- the same moveset diversity, but with a more accessible control scheme that alleviates cognitive load to allow for more natural gameplay. I think DmC took a good step towards accessibility and lowering the minimum cognitive threshold, but without accounting for moveset diversity.

I think we should all admit first that the reason DMC is so good isn't because of the control scheme, but because of what you're allowed to do. If it is possible to improve the control scheme at all and retain the same functionality, it should be done. I think that, if we agree on those principles, the avenues for improvement will be a bit easier to find.

However, if people consistently focus on keeping things the same as they have been and somehow adding something to a full control scheme, we won't really get anywhere when it comes to providing players with something 'expanded' or 'better'.

Personally, if they did make a DMC 5, I don't think they'd try to make it any more complex than DMC 4. I think they would probably use different weapons and have additional weapons for secondary characters to offer something more impressive, rather than adding complexity to a system that already takes years to comprehend and make full use of.