DoA Producer talks "Cultural Barrier between West and Japan"

[WolfOD64]

Interesting article on how the producer of Team Ninja's very own Dead or Alive series, and how he feels about Western disdain on the series' fan-service, and in fan-service in general found in Japanese games.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ural_divide_exists_between_japan_and_the_west

 

[Chancey289]

LOL

These are the same guys who made Extreme Beach Volleyball and jiggle physics, trying to make up an excuse to why they put their sexy ladies in as little clothing as possible, instead of just being honest.

They like those big ol titties and sexy ladies. Simple as that. I like tits and ass too. I'd give them more credit if they just admitted that.

It is a universal concept. You don't have to be from Japan to dig that.

 

[ROCKMAN X]

LOL
It is a universal concept. You don't have to be from Japan to dig that.

lmao reminds of that episode in south park where they blame tiger wood's infidelity over an alien and then tie up and dress up a swat guy like an alien for being honest.

 

[V's patron]

Interesting article on how the producer of Team Ninja's very own Dead or Alive series, and how he feels about Western disdain on the series' fan-service, and in fan-service in general found in Japanese games.

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...ural_divide_exists_between_japan_and_the_west

I think the problem with the article was the complaints against DOA were too vague. It would have been better if the complaints were more specific like focusing on the female characters who looked underage like Marie rose since its more an example of the cultural divide between West and East than just fanservice.

 

[Goldsickle]

A programmer friend told me that due to stigma on how PC is "meant for porn games" in Japan, major companies from that country don't make games for PC as much as the West and focused only on lower-powered consoles.

As a result of that, while Japan is stuck with their "originality for the sake of originality" gimmick and sticking to "dress codes", the West was experimenting on flexibility and freedom, like a first person action adventure open world universe with RPG elements, plus quick save and so on.

Japanese game companies in general are slower to modernize.

Nowadays, they're slowly getting the picture but around the PS2 era, we're getting all these "hyper-original for the sake of originality" games with poor accessibility, like Killer7.

 

[WolfOD64]

Nowadays, they're slowly getting the picture but around the PS2 era, we're getting all these "hyper-original for the sake of originality" games with poor accessibility, like Killer7.

...or cutscene-ridden attempts to shove a game's production value down the consumer's throat, with even less accessibility, like the Metal Gear series.

Not all of Suda 51's games are works of brilliance---God knows I've cut my teeth on both Killer7 and Lollipop Chainsaw---but for the most part, his games have backed up the unfathomable heaps of hyper-acid style with the substance to back it up. Hideo Kojima has yet to deliver anything like that in even one of his games.

 

[Demi-fiend]

the West was experimenting on flexibility and freedom, like a first person action adventure open world universe with RPG elements, plus quick save and so on.

Such as Deus Ex and System Shock 2?

... Also, technically Thief 1 and 2.

 

[Goldsickle]

...or cutscene-ridden attempts to shove a game's production value down the consumer's throat, with even less accessibility, like the Metal Gear series.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Metal Gear maybe movie-like as of Solid but Kojima never forgets that he's making a game.
Plus, the cutscenes can be paused or skipped to begin.

We're talking about the same game series that keeps improving upon flexibility, when it comes to combat, sneaking and shooting, as well as having intricate boss battles, right?

There's a lot of gameplay in the Metal Gear series and it's rather shallow to only remember the "movie-like" cutscenes aspect.
The movie-like presentation are bonuses to the already deep gameplay system of the series.

Also, Hideo Kojima isn't a believer of "games are art", which is one of the reason why I respect him as a game developer.


But on the other hand, Metal Gear also falls under the "Japanese companies are slow" curse, since it took them too long to grow out of their "original" format.
It was rather clunky to stop moving if you want to look around you and the pressure-sensitive gun controls are dysfunctional.

Hold square to draw weapon, release quickly to shoot.
Release slowly to lower without shooting.
Squeeze harder if you're firing a full-auto weapon.

God bless Kojima for finally implementing more functional shooting controls as of MGS4.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

...or cutscene-ridden attempts to shove a game's production value down the consumer's throat, with even less accessibility, like the Metal Gear series.

Not all of Suda 51's games are works of brilliance---God knows I've cut my teeth on both Killer7 and Lollipop Chainsaw---but for the most part, his games have backed up the unfathomable heaps of hyper-acid style with the substance to back it up. Hideo Kojima has yet to deliver anything like that in even one of his games.

I don't know what you're talking about, the Metal Gear series is pretty fun from both a gameplay and a story perspective. I guess it's a matter of taste.

As for Suda's games, dare I say it the only ones I had fun with were the No More Heroes games. I didn't even like Killer Is Dead...

 

[WolfOD64]

I don't know what you're talking about, the Metal Gear series is pretty fun from both a gameplay and a story perspective. I guess it's a matter of taste.

As for Suda's games, dare I say it the only ones I had fun with were the No More Heroes games. I didn't even like Killer Is Dead...

It is a matter of taste...and I won't say it's wrong to like Metal Gear. Good for you if you do enjoy it...me, though, I don't. I just don't think the series is either innovative, or exceptional from a story-telling or gameplay perspective. I didn't find any of them entertaining to watch or play...well, mostly watch.

As for Suda, well, my favorite game he's made is by far Shadows of the Damned. Killer is Dead felt more like No More Heroes part 3, but it was still fun.

There's a lot of gameplay in the Metal Gear series and it's rather shallow to only remember the "movie-like" cutscenes aspect.
The movie-like presentation are bonuses to the already deep gameplay system of the series.

You remember a game by what you frequently played/sat through for most of the experience...and about 75% of the time, I found myself sitting through cutscenes. Long, painfully-scripted, poorly-acted, agonizingly-tedious cutscenes.

But on the other hand, Metal Gear also falls under the "Japanese companies are slow" curse, since it took them too long to grow out of their "original" format.

They still didn't grow out of their original format by the time MGS4 hit the PS3 back in '08. The controls were still clunky, the "stealth" still boiled down to "white-dot-on-a-radar-protected-by-field-of-view-and-nothing-else", and the cutscenes actually managed to get even longer, with even less coherence or pacing to compliment the overall story.

If Hideo Kojima was a film director, he'd be M. Night Shamalayan. He only knows how to make games one way, so he resorts to being a one-trick pony that barely puts his his work through any necessary evolution or improvement.

 

[Goldsickle]

You remember a game by what you frequently played/sat through for most of the experience...and about 75% of the time, I found myself sitting through cutscenes. Long, painfully-scripted, poorly-acted, agonizingly-tedious cutscenes.

I already said that those can be skipped.
Maybe you'd sit through them the first time to understand the storyline but in subsequent playthroughs (like Big Boss/Foxhound runs), you can totally skip them.

They still didn't grow out of their original format by the time MGS4 hit the PS3 back in '08. The controls were still clunky, the "stealth" still boiled down to "white-dot-on-a-radar-protected-by-field-of-view-and-nothing-else",

The only 'clunky' part of MGS4 was cover and flattening against walls (Snake's movements are too slow).
The general mechanics, such as how you could shift from 3rd person action-adventure into 1st/3rd person shooting seamlessly was very functional.

 

[Chancey289]

Killer 7 is actually still my favorite Suda51 game. I really dug that set up.

Also, even though I am a big Metal Gear fan, I understand why some people would not dig it. I share some of the most unpopular opinions on the Metal Gear series that gets the fellow fans ready to crucify me at the stake for.

I do think Kojima could learn to be a better writer. He can talk for hours and say f#cking nothing. It also is a series that has some of the weirdest mechanics and quite frankly was never the greatest stealth game.

Still, I always dug Metal Gear for how bizarre the world is. The story and characters were unique offerings that have this appealing factor even if it's goofy as hell. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

It's kind of one of those things that you either love it or hate it.

 

[Demi-fiend]

I already said that those can be skipped.
Maybe you'd sit through them the first time to understand the storyline but in subsequent playthroughs (like Big Boss/Foxhound runs), you can totally skip them.

Yeah but... you need to watch the entirety of all the cutscenes the first time around (and yes, they'd BETTER give you the opportunity to pause, otherwise, how am I going to hold off going to the bathroom during these 45-minute marathons??) in order to be able to know what you have to do next afterwards.

If Hideo Kojima was a film director, he'd be M. Night Shamalayan. He only knows how to make games one way, so he resorts to being a one-trick pony that barely puts his his work through any necessary evolution or improvement.

omg this. Thank you.

I had always thought that Kojima was overrated (to an extreme degree, no less, when I heard fanboys saying that nothing, not even Arkham Asylum and City, was better than MGS4... REALLY??), so glad that someone around here shares my opinion.

Ha... the M. Night version of gaming. Yes, that's quite fitting. I had never made that analogy, actually.

But one of the main reasons I agree with you is because about a while back, Kojima gave an interview, and I quote:

"I was talking about TV series, in case of MGS, I always make this would be the last so I don’t really think ahead."

http://www.metalgearinformer.com/?p=14215

Of course, Kojima. We know you don't think ahead. -_-

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/ko...will-have-story-inconsistencies/1100-6416128/

"When you try to write something that was supposed to be in the middle there will be some inconsistencies when you go into very small details."

Just the "small" details?? Alright, I'll pretend that some of the bigger plotholes were just accidents then.

In other words, you can't even connect your own storylines, is that it?

Translation: I have no idea what I'm even doing.

This Japanophile worship seriously needs to stop. Not every major gaming storyline from the Far East is perfect, you know.

Edit:

They still didn't grow out of their original format by the time MGS4 hit the PS3 back in '08. The controls were still clunky, the "stealth" still boiled down to "white-dot-on-a-radar-protected-by-field-of-view-and-nothing-else", and the cutscenes actually managed to get even longer, with even less coherence or pacing to compliment the overall story.

Again, thank you. I had always thought that the Splinter Cell series had such better gameplay. And even if it didn't, it would take me hours just to get used to the controls in any MGS game.

Meanwhile, in Splinter Cell (the PC versions, anyway) it took me all of ten minutes to acclimatize myself to its mechanics.

If it takes that long to start having fun, then I'd rather just move on to something else.

Edit:

God bless Kojima for finally implementing more functional shooting controls as of MGS4.

See, that's my point. It shouldn't have taken Kojima four games to do that.

 

[Chancey289]

If Hideo Kojima was a film director, he'd be M. Night Shamalayan. He only knows how to make games one way, so he resorts to being a one-trick pony that barely puts his his work through any necessary evolution or improvement.

I think that's a tad extreme.

The M. Night Shymalan of the video game industry is David Cage. You know, making sh!tty Twilight Zone episodes. However, at least M. Night Shymabablah made two good movies in his career. (The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable) David Cage hasn't made anything good at all.

 

[Demi-fiend]

The M. Night Shymalan of the video game industry is David Cage. You know, making sh!tty Twilight Zone episodes.

Yeah, I also admit to jumping the gun on that one. Cage is probably the more accurate choice. However, I had always thought that Fahrenheit was at least an above-average game.

How many titles out there allow you to wake up in a bathroom stall with evidence of a crime scene all over your hands with limited time to get out of there and hastily erase said evidence? That's some riveting stuff, right there.

And Beyond: Two Souls is at least somewhat respected in the community, so I'll give it that. Still love Jimquisition's riff on David Cage, though.

emotions emotions emotions XD

 

[Chancey289]

Yeah, I also admit to jumping the gun on that one. Cage is probably the more accurate choice. However, I had always thought that Fahrenheit was at least an above-average game.

How many titles out there allow you to wake up in a bathroom stall with evidence of a crime scene all over your hands with limited time to get out of there and hastily erase said evidence? That's some riveting stuff, right there.

And Beyond: Two Souls is at least somewhat respected in the community, so I'll give it that. Still love Jimquisition's riff on David Cage, though.

emotions emotions emotions XD

Beyond:Two Souls is a hunk of garbage that shouldn't be respected at all. It's just his Press X to Ellen Page. It doesn't deserve it. Neither does that pretentious David Cage.

Polygons is emotions. :tongue:

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

I think that's a tad extreme.

The M. Night Shymalan of the video game industry is David Cage. You know, making sh!tty Twilight Zone episodes. However, at least M. Night Shymabablah made two good movies in his career. (The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable) David Cage hasn't made anything good at all.

So David Cage is the Uwe Boll of the video game industry then.

 

[WolfOD64]

The M. Night Shymalan of the video game industry is David Cage. You know, making sh!tty Twilight Zone episodes. However, at least M. Night Shymabablah made two good movies in his career. (The Sixth Sense and Unbreakable) David Cage hasn't made anything good at all.

Okay, you know what? I think I'll refrain from burning my nightly effigy of Hideo Kojima's smug, bespectacled face for just once, and fully admit that you're right.

Whatever Hideo Kojima makes, they can at least be defined to some level as 'games.' Now, they might not be good games, but at least they're games. David Cage doesn't make games---he never has made any games. He makes horribly-paced and awkwardly-acted movies portraying some of the most retarded, devoid-of-logic mannequins posing as characters.

.It also is a series that has some of the weirdest mechanics and quite frankly was never the greatest stealth game.

The most intruguing stealth games I've played were the original Deus Ex, and older Splinter Cell titles. Not only were there mechanics and the multiple approaches of sneaking in those games, but also a story that unravel at the speed of a drunken snail plowing through ten feet of molasses.

Still, I always dug Metal Gear for how bizarre the world is. The story and characters were unique offerings that have this appealing factor even if it's goofy as hell. It's not everyone's cup of tea.

It's kind of one of those things that you either love it or hate it.

You know, when you describe it like that, it sounds an awful like that other thing that's also both Japanese and stupidly-popular...something that's just as an acquired taste, that you either love or hate...

What was it called again...? *snaps fingers* Ah, yes...anime. Well, at least...you know, modern anime.

 

[Chancey289]

So David Cage is the Uwe Boll of the video game industry then.

Believe it or not, Uwe Boll has made a good movie. It's called "Rampage". While the subject matter is controversial to some people, it was a movie that indicated a shred of talent in him as a film maker. Something I didn't think existed.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

Believe it or not, Uwe Boll has made a good movie. It's called "Rampage". While the subject matter is controversial to some people, it was a movie that indicated a shred of talent in him as a film maker. Something I didn't think existed.

A single good movie does not invalidate the bad ones.