Character motivations

[Loopy]

Just thought I'd make this thread because I'm interested to know what you all think about the DmC characters. I'm sure we'll have different interpretations depending on the character and our take on them.
Things like what motivates them, what their goals are and what they believe in, and why we think they act the way they do. Maybe even interpretation of how they act around other characters and why.

I would like this to be a discussion or a debate because people are going to have different ideas about what makes a character tick and such, but please no insulting people for having different ideas to you. Talk it out in a civil way.

So pick a character and go ^_^

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

uhh I have this wacky theory that Vergil is more motivated by his adoptive family. I'm under the impression that something happened to them at the hands of other humans which then brought out his need to protect and rule but also believe they're destructive creatures. Honestly I'm not feeling the vibe that he loved Sparda or Eva at all, especially because of that line from the comics calling his "father a traitor and his mother a whore". I just really think he used Sparda and Eva as an excuse to manipulate Dante to do his dirty work.....

Soo in all reality I'm not good at this and I'm most likely wrong but I tried ha.

 

[Loopy]

uhh I have this wacky theory that Vergil is more motivated by his adoptive family. I'm under the impression that something happened to them at the hands of other humans which then brought out his need to protect and rule but also believe they're destructive creatures. Honestly I'm not feeling the vibe that he loved Sparda or Eva at all, especially because of that line from the comics calling his "father a traitor and his mother a whore". I just really think he used Sparda and Eva as an excuse to manipulate Dante to do his dirty work.....

Soo in all reality I'm not good at this and I'm most likely wrong but I tried ha.

It's not about being right or wrong, it's your take on how the character is. That's why I made this topic.
There's also Vergil's issue about control. He never knew where he came from, but he always knew he was different. So like he says, he turns to computers and hacking to gain some control. I guess ruling the world came from that. Like it was the ultimate control power trip for him.

As for his views on humans. They're almost like Mundus'. They both believe humans need to be controlled because humans are unable to control themselves.
I don't think he actually cares about humanity. They're lesser being to him and he feels like he is being noble by looking after them and saving humans from themselves.

Yep, also agreeing that he used emotional manipulation about his parents to get Dante on his side. He doesn't seem to care about finding Sparda. When Dante asks, Vergil just brushes him off by saying Sparda is in a place where he cannot be found.
I'm not sure if Vergil is lying. Considering he has a low opinion of both parents, and his need for power, what if Vergil can find Sparda and wants to find him to take his power.
Vergil related more to his demon side, introducing himself to Kat in the comic as a son of a demon. So maybe if he was able to defeat Dante and rule, he could have found Sparda, taken his power and then got all the demons on his side. Like being the next Mundus, but Vergil would not see it like that. He's too clouded by his own ideals. To him, only he is right.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

Yep, also agreeing that he used emotional manipulation about his parents to get Dante on his side. He doesn't seem to care about finding Sparda. When Dante asks, Vergil just brushes him off by saying Sparda is in a place where he cannot be found.
I'm not sure if Vergil is lying. Considering he has a low opinion of both parents, and his need for power, what if Vergil can find Sparda and wants to find him to take his power.
Vergil related more to his demon side, introducing himself to Kat in the comic as a son of a demon. So maybe if he was able to defeat Dante and rule, he could have found Sparda, taken his power and then got all the demons on his side. Like being the next Mundus, but Vergil would not see it like that. He's too clouded by his own ideals. To him, only he is right.

Yeah I'm hoping he lied to Dante and knows exactly where Sparda is so he can find him at the end of downfall; maybe his plan B? well I can hope . I can only guess that Sparda would have gone insane after years of torture anyway.

Sorry for not adding much to this thread, I'm more of an introverted lurker who has a hard time expressing myself. I'm interested in what other ideas people come up with though, especially in regard to Sparda; he doesn't seem very likable to me in the reboot from what little they talked about, I really wish they told more about him.

 

[Tmfaria]

First of all, I love rebooted Dante and I want him to marry me. Ugh, what a relief, needed to say that somewhere here on the forums. Okay, we are clear on that, soooo let's discuss something relevant to this discussion ahahaha.

I honestly love all the characters in the DmC universe. I felt this reboot really made the characters that more interesting and compelling. Vergil, Dante and Kat all have stories that I can see progressing further to future DmC projects - lets hope so despite the odd reviews from game critics and fans alike

 

[Loopy]

I'm going to have a bash at figuring out the other characters. Please feel free to chip in and add things, or a new point of view; also if you don't agree. (I don't bite- promise ^_^)

So, Phineas. We know he's a pretty old demon. He knew Sparda in some capacity and enough about Eva to say Dante had her in him too.
What motivates him: Revenge. Mundus punishes him by scooping out part of his head and his eye and then puts him under the control of Bob Barbas and those Harpies that torment him. I guess his hatred for Mundus festers while he's there and he wants any way to get back at him.
Dante comes along and Phineas sees his chance. Now here's where I think Phineas is duplicitous (feel free to disagree^_^)
On the one hand he's convincing Dante that just because he is a demon, he is not wholly bad and is worthy of Dante's help. On the other, he tells Dante how to get at Mundus by killing Lilith and the child. Now, if he's not as bad as he claims, why does he tell Dante to do this? He even tells Dante that when this happens Mundus will get revenge and that there will be death.
Maybe his need for revenge has overtaken his view. So long as Mundus is defeated, he doesn't care how many have to die to do that.

Other questions: How did he know Sparda? (Has this been covered in the game?)
How did he know about the other Nephilim? Is he just generally knowledgable or is there something deeper?
How did he know about Lilith having Mundus' child? Seriously- how did he find that out?!:lol: Don't tell me he was hiding under the desk while they did it. >_< :lol:
Where did he go after he got his eye back? He wasn't too keen on confronting Barbas.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

I'm going to have a bash at figuring out the other characters. Please feel free to chip in and add things, or a new point of view; also if you don't agree. (I don't bite- promise ^_^)

Phineas is completely shady to me. I also think he's out for revenge and most of all I would like to know when he was imprisoned? Was he punished when Sparda was Mundus blood brother? if so then he might also hold a grudge for Sparda's entire bloodline; I thought it was odd when he implanted that line "and who will take his place" in Dante's head; really what would he have to gain from that?

How did he know Sparda? I don't believe this has been covered in the game (at least I don't remember it) but I'm guessing that Sparda might have helped to imprison him. If there is information anywhere else that disputes this, sorry

How did he know about the other Nephilim? Depending how old he is, maybe he helped hunt down the Nephilim at one point? although again, not sure.

How did he know about Lilith having Mundus' child? Honestly this was a scene I didn't need to see myself, it gave me more nightmares than necessary *shivers*. I'm thinking Mundus caught him peeping from under the desk like you said and that's why he punished him. In all seriousness though, I've read that his mechanical eye allows him to "see" the truth, so I guess it's not in just a physical sense. If that's also the case then maybe he didn't have to meet Sparda or Eva to "see"; just like he could already see Dante was Nephilim right off and that Vergil wanted to become top dog, or watchdog :troll:

Where did he go after he got his eye back? I'm thinking to just to plot from the shadows. I think it would be pretty interesting if Vergil runs into him in the DLC and Phineas just keeps playing the brothers against each other. Maybe he's hoping for them to take each other out so he can be on top. I really don't believe that he's harmless.

 

[Loopy]

Ohhh, what you said about Phineas playing the twins against each other reminds me of Arkham!

Crazy theory time! Phineas is Arkham in disguise :lol: Nah, but it would make one hell of a plot twist.

Okay, now I'm going to try Lilith. As a character, I felt like I knew her more than Mundus.:blink:
She's made it to the top as Mundus' main mistress.:lol: Phineas and Vergil make it sound like Mundus had more ladies before her.
So she used her body to gain his favour and to get power through him. Maybe that's why she gets the nightclub to run? She's certainly useful when she's converting humans to his cause with drugs and drink and women.

But something else I notice. She's quite pathetic, and to me a pitiable character. There's no love from Mundus for her. She's more into him than he is with her. She calls him 'darling' after he's done talking to the President, and she seems genuinely impressed with what he's doing. Maybe it's his power that excites her? But she is certainly drawn to him. She's trying to persuade him to sleep with her also, but he's not interested at that time. He's more concerned with Dante, which does seem to visibly annoy her.

Now whether she wants to sleep with him out of affection, or because she wants to carry his child is another story. I'd go with the child theory though. I guess she got it into her head that if she had his child that he'd stick with her and give her more power.

Then when they are together (that scene>_<) , Mundus does it from behind and doesn't seem to care. More like just get the job done.:lol: And again she gets annoyed when he stops. But this time because he's talking about the succubus. But by how upset Mundus is with the succubus death, and Lilith's almost jealous reaction with the 'must we talk about her' line. We'll it reminds me of a guy bringing up and ex- girlfriend. She wants Mundus for keeps and she'll do anything to keep him. Maybe there's a level of insecurity in her knowing that he can have other women.

Also, she's constantly saying during the club level how Mundus will 'delight' in her if she can kill Dante for him, and how she wants to please Mundus and give him what he wants. It's sad. She has to use a man to get power and will do anything he asks, even when there is no promise of him ever having feelings for her.
She lets her body be used...demon pregnancy looks painful the way it was beating her up from the inside. Ouch!
The worst part is that she understands she is nothing to Mundus except as a vessel for his child. She says something like 'I'm nothing without this brat.' She understands the position she is in, but she goes along with it.

Then she's reduced to a shadow of what she once was. Totally powerless during the exchange, and she knows that if she didn't have his child, Mundus wouldn't care about her.
Heck, Mundus cements that with 'why did you kill my child?' He doesn't ask Dante why Lilith is dead- just the child.
Then when Vergil takes the first shot, she quickly knows what has happened and freaks out. I don't think it's out of love for the child. She has called it a brat. I'd say that was more 'oh crap, my plan to get Mundus to like me has just failed'. >_<

So I'm wondering:
What demon could she be?

Is she a demon soul in a human body, or a demon body hiding in human skin? I ask this because of how the skin is stretched and pulled and kept in place with that metal thingy almost like it is stretched over something.
But, I notice on her back, the skin is ripped and there is blood. So she could be a demon soul in a human body.But if that is right, why didn't she choose a better body?

Also, how did she meet Mundus?

And I wonder if she had a fake human name like Mundus had Kyle Ryder?

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

Crazy theory time! Phineas is Arkham in disguise :lol: Nah, but it would make one hell of a plot twist.

Okay, now I'm going to try Lilith. As a character, I felt like I knew her more than Mundus.
Definitely, there were points where I actually sympathized with her a little bit.

Phineas and Vergil make it sound like Mundus had more ladies before her. I'm probably sure he does. He does seem obsessed with having an heir for some reason, so why not sleep with as many women as possible and spread his seed? .....I can't believe I just typed that....eww

So she used her body to gain his favour and to get power through him. Maybe that's why she gets the nightclub to run? She's certainly useful when she's converting humans to his cause with drugs and drink and women. Did they ever say in the game if Mundus let her run the club though? I know he pretty much controlled everything, but I think it would be pretty interesting If she actually owned the club herself before she started sleeping with him (it would also make her less pathetic in my eyes). I could see Mundus not only using her to provide an heir (Because most any female demon, human or otherwise can have a kid) but also using her for the high end nightclub which I'm sure a lot of important human figureheads frequent. Since he never seems to leave his tower, she could be his connection with the outside world. She also seems to have enough power in her own right because she doesn't seem to have a problem popping in and out of limbo, which I'm under the impression that not all demons can do? Someone could also say that he wouldn't need to sleep with her to take over the nightclub himself, but I really don't think he was the type to go ****ing on all the demons. He could have outright enslaved the entire human race through force if he wanted but instead preferred to stay in the shadows manipulating things like the economy etc. I really can't think of any other reason for him wanting her as one of the top demon princes; I'm sure he could have any girl willing or unwilling and she is certainly not a looker.

Now whether she wants to sleep with him out of affection, or because she wants to carry his child is another story. I'd go with the child theory though. I'm going with the child theory as well, she's probably hoping to solidify a position as a demon queen.

Then when they are together (that scene>_<) , Mundus does it from behind and doesn't seem to care. More like just get the job done.:lol: From the look on his face during that scene I'm surprised he didn't think to put a bag over her head. And again she gets annoyed when he stops. But this time because he's talking about the succubus. Lilith's almost jealous reaction with the 'must we talk about her' line. We'll it reminds me of a guy bringing up and ex- girlfriend. She wants Mundus for keeps and she'll do anything to keep him. Maybe there's a level of insecurity in her knowing that he can have other women. I'm also thinking it's more along the lines of impregnating other women; If he does that then she truly has competition. Her child might not get preferential treatment, hence her importance could drop down the list pretty fast. If he did impregnate other women I can picture her killing them off one by one without his knowledge.

She has to use a man to get power and will do anything he asks, even when there is no promise of him ever having feelings for her. This is where I sympathize with her a bit.

when Vergil takes the first shot, she quickly knows what has happened and freaks out. I don't think it's out of love for the child. She has called it a brat. I'd say that was more 'oh crap, my plan to get Mundus to like me has just failed'. Yup and all the potential power that goes with it. Maybe she truly likes Mundus but I just can't see it, especially if she can call her own child a brat. I really think they're just leeching off each other. And did Vergil actually make the second shot? it almost looks like it's coming from another direction to me. Is it possible that because Mundus only cares about his heir and is so ****ed at her for getting captured in the first place that he ordered one of his swat to just finish the job?

So I'm wondering:
What demon could she be?

I want to say a demon body hiding in human skin, with all the cuts and scars. I need to find a picture of her back but I think her dress looked something like this http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zZ_uGkAs0uo/UI6lD4zmBfI/AAAAAAAAGlQ/qWad79_AKIc/s1600/corset-piercing.jpg
just more stretched, so I'm also just thinking her back was more for aesthetic reasons. I can't seem to find a picture of her back anywhere though >_<

Also, how did she meet Mundus?
This is where I'm guessing that he might of saw her first and realized her power and potential maybe? It would be an interesting story lol
[/quote]

This thread is a breath of fresh air, I wish more people would respond and discuss instead of bickering. I'm sure a greater mind than mine could come up with more interesting ideas. You're really good at this and I'm trying my best but I'm probably just killing the thread.:ermm:

What?! how did the quote get messed up?

 

[Loopy]

You're not killing the thread at all! I like what you have to say.

Also, the comment of Mundus should put a bag on Lilith's head:lol: I really wonder why he chose her.....and not for her looks. Maybe she has a really nice personality. :troll:

As for Lilith being shot, I think Vergil does both shots. But it would be interesting if Mundus was the one to demon telepathy order her dead. That would really make him seem cold.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

You're not killing the thread at all! I like what you have to say.

Also, the comment of Mundus should put a bag on Lilith's head:lol: I really wonder why he chose her.....and not for her looks. Maybe she has a really nice personality. :troll:

As for Lilith being shot, I think Vergil does both shots. But it would be interesting if Mundus was the one to demon telepathy order her dead. That would really make him seem cold.

Yeah, at first I felt bad writing that line because I think personality is more important but then I looked at her picture again and just thought hell no....

Thank you for not thinking that I killed the thread! Which I think this is one of the most interesting ones on here (Why can't people see that?! )

Yeah I need to take a look at that scene again. I can picture either Vergil or Mundus killing her off really, they're both royal bastards.

 

[Loopy]

Yeah, at first I felt bad writing that line because I think personality is more important but then I looked at her picture again and just thought hell no....
Lilith has a nasty personality anyway. She's pretty messed up one moment, but so ruined the next. At first I thought the corset thing was part of her dress, then I worked out it was in her skin, all I could think was....ouch And that metal thing stuck in her head....double ouch. She looks like a lady who had too much plastic surgery and then it went wrong.

Thank you for not thinking that I killed the thread! Which I think this is one of the most interesting ones on here (Why can't people see that?! ) Thanks for thinking that. I would have thought more would want to discuss the character in detail.

Yeah I need to take a look at that scene again. I can picture either Vergil or Mundus killing her off really, they're both royal bastards.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

I'm also interested in why kat was a complete puppy to Vergil throughout the game when he treated her like garbage. He did erase her feelings for him after all right? :/

 

[Loopy]

I'm also interested in why kat was a complete puppy to Vergil throughout the game when he treated her like garbage. He did erase her feelings for him after all right? :/

Yeah, in the comic he erased the feelings they had. But I'm guessing that's because feelings would stop Vergil from using Kat.
Let's face it, the guy must have a warped idea of feelings and falling in love. His experience of that is knowing his parents fell in love; one was tortured for it and the other brutally murdered. Vergil probably thinks its better to not have feelings for that reas

As for Kat, I guess she did it out of gratitude. She can still remember him saving her from the demons in the dream, taking her under his wing and looking after her. A girl with nowhere to go, then he shows up and saves her, so she's bound to be loyal to him. In a weird way she's like Lilith. Kat let's Vergil use her. Like when she's shutting down the Order computers during the raid, and she knows that if she does it she won't be able to escape. But she does it because it is 'important' to Vergil and his plans. She suffers torture for him at the hands of Mundus. And Vergil repays her by not wanting to save her.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

in a way, if she still had her memories intact, then I can actually see how her feelings might actually seep back in. I just wish she had stuck up for herself a little more. Vergil actually reminded me of a complete psychopath after watching the video of Mundus and saying "interesting"; it's pretty funny to me how Mundus a full blooded demon could actually care about someone more (his child) then Vergil who doesn't seem to care about anyone (and is only a half breed). I also bounce back and forth over whether he even loves Dante. When I really think about it, Mundus didn't actually need an heir considering he is immortal and maybe he didn't love his child outright but he did sound pretty broken when he asked Dante "why did you kill my child?".

I don't think this game is perfect but I actually think the characters are more complex then what people give them credit for...but that's just my opinion in case someone wants to jump in and flame me for saying that ha.

 

[darkmanifest]

in a way, if she still had her memories intact, then I can actually see how her feelings might actually seep back in. I just wish she had stuck up for herself a little more. Vergil actually reminded me of a complete psychopath after watching the video of Mundus and saying "interesting"; it's pretty funny to me how Mundus a full blooded demon could actually care about someone more (his child) then Vergil who doesn't seem to care about anyone (and is only a half breed). I also bounce back and forth over whether he even loves Dante. When I really think about it, Mundus didn't actually need an heir considering he is immortal and maybe he didn't love his child outright but he did sound pretty broken when he asked Dante "why did you kill my child?"

The comic demonstrates that Vergil is capable of love, despite himself, but love doesn't fix his worldview, and like Loopy said, he feels he needs to be capable of anything in order to win - you know, becoming a monster so as to defeat the monsters. I think he does genuinely love Dante and it actually made him stupidly sentimental as a result, just like when he was willing to risk everything for Kat. He doesn't care about Kat in the least in the game, but because Dante does, Vergil makes exceptions to his own rules - and his own safety - to keep Dante happy, and actually seems kind of hurt when he sees that Dante's bonded more to Kat in the end. That "I loved you, brother" was pretty unnecessary if all he wanted was to manipulate Dante long enough to destroy the demons and rule the world - the fight was over, Dante's position was clear, there was no benefit to it. It's like it was a bitter admission of his own foolishness, for letting his feelings for Dante, his need for family, blind him to how different the two of them truly were.

It's possible Vergil will try to erase his emotions again in the DLC, but I don't think all that mucking about in his own brain is doing him any sort of good. He might be erasing his ability to feel anything at all.

 

[DankestDarkness]

My take on vergil is that he grew up in a rich family that had power and control and that's why he likes to be in charge and wants to rule the humans I believe he killed them and took their money to create the order which is why he's so ruthless throughout the game and I ly cares of his ambition on being a bo$$

 

[Loopy]

Vergil actually reminded me of a complete psychopath after watching the video of Mundus and saying "interesting"; it's pretty funny to me how Mundus a full blooded demon could actually care about someone more (his child) then Vergil who doesn't seem to care about anyone (and is only a half breed). I also bounce back and forth over whether he even loves Dante. When I really think about it, Mundus didn't actually need an heir considering he is immortal and maybe he didn't love his child outright but he did sound pretty broken when he asked Dante "why did you kill my child?".That's a very good point. Mundus is immortal, so why would he want to have an heir? That makes no sense if he will live forever. And I seriosuly doubt he did it to play happy families with LilithAnyone think of a logical reason for that?
And yep, it is kinda scary that when Vergil sees the video of Kat in huge danger with Mundus, and all he can say is 'interesting' and then almost as quickly says that he will not save Kat and is unwilling to exchange Dante. That's just not right at all. He's more concerned about what Mundus doesn't know about him than the safetly of a girl he once claimed to have feelings for.

I don't think this game is perfect but I actually think the characters are more complex then what people give them credit for...but that's just my opinion in case someone wants to jump in and flame me for saying that ha.

My take on vergil is that he grew up in a rich family that had power and control and that's why he likes to be in charge and wants to rule the humans I believe he killed them and took their money to create the order which is why he's so ruthless throughout the game and I ly cares of his ambition on being a bo$$

I wish more information had been given on his adoptive family. Were they brainwashed demon collaborators? Were they converted to the demon cause by being given lots of money? Those two reasons alone I think would cause Vergil to kill someone- even adoptive family. But we don't find out where they are during the game. Safe to say Vergil doesn't care much about them, just like he doesn't care about Eva and Sparda.

 

[DankestDarkness]

I wish more information had been given on his adoptive family. Were they brainwashed demon collaborators? Were they converted to the demon cause by being given lots of money? Those two reasons alone I think would cause Vergil to kill someone- even adoptive family. But we don't find out where they are during the game. Safe to say Vergil doesn't care much about them, just like he doesn't care about Eva and Sparda.

That's kinda wrong in the old DMC what made him so evil was that he sees it as he failed to protect his mother which made him mad and wanted more power

 

[Loopy]

That's kinda wrong in the old DMC what made him so evil was that he sees it as he failed to protect his mother which made him mad and wanted more power

Yep, in the old DMC, Vergil was so tortured over not being able to save his family from the demons, and that's what first makes him want to get powerful.
But this Vergil....it seems like he thinks his real parents were weak for falling in love and getting killed for it. Then of course what you said about Vergil being capable of killing adoptive parents to get their money. I could see him doing that. He seems to have the attitude of sacrifice of a few being okay so long as it helps his goal.