Dante (DmC) vs. Nero

[Dante Redgrave]

It does seem to be the case that Nero was just written to be insensitve to pain to make him on a level with Dante. Whereas Dante and Vergil in DmC not only have physical pain, but emotinal as well which makes them more human...to me at least.

Having said that about emotional pain in DmC...well, when they did it in DMC4 with Nero and his 'KYRIEEE!' complete with sparkling tears....it just came off as silly.

Shounen sparkles. It wouldn;'t be a fangirl attracting bishounen anime game without shounen sparkles.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

Lilith died in one shot because she's a demonic soul in a human vessel. In DmC they die in the human world like humans because they can't use their demonic power to help them - that's why they even have Limbo in the first place, a place closer to Earth than Hell that still lets them affect things with their magic. A Nephilim, like Dante, could take machine gun bullets because their supernatural abilities don't have a boundary, it's even one of the Nephilim's racial traits that they can exist similarly in almost all spaces, and that's why they were such a threat.

It's the same reason why Barbas died so easily - he was killed by bullets going into the real world. Mundus was the same - once his soul was trapped in the human vessel by closing the Hell Gate, Dante destroyed the colossus of a body protecting Mundus' human vessel and diced him up. The bosses people killed in Limbo were the Hunter and Poison, who have no real world forms or vessels, and could only be interacted with while in Limbo.

 

[VineBigBoss]

That "insesitivity to pain" is a result of bad writing and a lazy habit I have observed of japanese writers to make their heroes almost totally invincible just to show how "awesome and powerfull" they are, when all it does is make them harder and harder to actually care about because NOTHING can get them down. As a result, I do find Nt!DAnte easier to connect with on that level that Classic Dante; he does come off with a more human element.

I understand your point but this is not "bad writing" at all. This is how the character is suppose to be, just by looking how the game presents himself tell us that the protagonist is a overpowered badass (talking about the original DMC here), and he's intended to be cool and not humanly. And i don't think it can be called a "lazy habit of the japanese", look at characters like Wolwerine, Hulk, Superman, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix and so on, they are overpowered too but they are cool, my personal favourite from the HQs is Wolwerine. At the same time we have characters like Solid Snake or Kenshin Himura (from Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X) who is very human and much more realistic than these other i named. I agree with you in this point, but it's kinda limited too, Donte acts like a rebelious teenager like most people already was before, that's why people can make that "connection". But i prefer to see Dante acting in his funny way than "making a connection" with Donte.

But after all, this is a trait of the half/quarter-breeds on DMC and if they would fight against Donte this has to be considered. But as i said twice: it's hard to compare because both designs were intended to different purposes and were made with very different standards.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

Let's see Dante has:

• Dropped Mundus (also winning the award for most epic loogie ever)
• Overpowered Vergil to the point of badly wounding him (physical & emotionally)
• killed (the absolute UGLIEST) succubus
• smacked demons into a carnival ride
• kicked off his game by gettin' laid

Nero's:

• destroyed a False Savior
• proven that devils in fact DO cry
• refused to shout "Bankai!" or "It's Morphin' Time!"
• used a Bankai as a DT
• somehow served as the unholy love child between DMC, Bayonetta, Bleach, MMPR, Vergil, & a Fortuna hooker (which I hear are quite amazing)

I c Dante trashin' Nero, leavin'im stripped down in a gutter, an' then goin' to Kyrie for the victory celebration

 

[Loopy]

And i don't think it can be called a "lazy habit of the japanese", look at characters like Wolwerine, Hulk, Superman, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix and so on, they are overpowered too but they are cool, my personal favourite from the HQs is Wolwerine.

Got to say though that there are different versions of Wolverine. Sometimes he is in a comic as an overpowered brute, other times he shows a more sensitive side....sometimes he's shown as plain evil. Like Dante and Nero, it depends on the creator how the character is written and envisioned. Got to admit I prefer Wolverine when they're exploring his emotions...like when there's a plot involving Daken. There's a conflicted side of Wolverine there that I like.

But as i said twice: it's hard to compare because both designs were intended to different purposes and were made with very different standards.

Very true. What Japan views as a good or cool character is different to how the West would see a cool character. Nero was made by different minds and cultural ideas compared to DmC Dante.

It's just a difference in how each culture likes their heroes.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

...like when there's a plot involving Daken. There's a conflicted side of Wolverine there that I like.

off-topic but X-Men Origins: Wolverine should've revolved around Logan, Daken, & Romulus

 

[Dante Redgrave]

I understand your point but this is not "bad writing" at all. This is how the character is suppose to be, just by looking how the game presents himself tell us that the protagonist is a overpowered badass (talking about the original DMC here), and he's intended to be cool and not humanly. And i don't think it can be called a "lazy habit of the japanese", look at characters like Wolwerine, Hulk, Superman, Apocalypse, Dark Phoenix and so on, they are overpowered too but they are cool, my personal favourite from the HQs is Wolwerine. At the same time we have characters like Solid Snake or Kenshin Himura (from Rurouni Kenshin/Samurai X) who is very human and much more realistic than these other i named. I agree with you in this point, but it's kinda limited too, Donte acts like a rebelious teenager like most people already was before, that's why people can make that "connection". But i prefer to see Dante acting in his funny way than "making a connection" with DAnte.

But after all, this is a trait of the half/quarter-breeds on DMC and if they would fight against DAnte this has to be considered. But as i said twice: it's hard to compare because both designs were intended to different purposes and were made with very different standards.

Fixed those typos. You have such trouble sometimes spelling his name, I thought I'd help you out. Is it a Virgil/Vergil kind of thing, I don't know. I mean, his name is clearly spelt out in the game, subtitles and material as DANTE, not Donte.

Glad to be of help though.

To address your points, yes, those characters are sometimes played off as physically invincible to a point, but they still show emotional and mental vulnerabilities. THese moment of "nothing stops me" often is seen as moments of bland and bad writing when there is no reaction...like when Punisher blew Howlett's face off and he just kept going.This is important though since your main example, when NT!Dante was stabbed in a fight, was from him as a teenager, likely when a lot of his hybrid powers had not yet kicked in. I mean, he's in his early 20s when he finally devil triggers in DmC. You still feel PAIN even if you just heal it.

Often times, the good writing, eastern or western, is marked be being able to explore your characters beyond "how awesome and unstoppable are they". In DMC1, we saw vulnerability in Dante; a lot of it was emotional, be we saw he had weaknesses, and if not for the sheer overdrive brought by the Sparda sword, and Trish' sacrifice, Mundus WOULD have killed him. In DMC3, we see some moments of this, but not many. th emain one that really comes to mind is when Dante pretty much takes a while to recover from being double impaled at the end of Mission 9. in DMC4, however...yeah, he's basically just an invicible god and really just comes as an unfunny jackass half the time.

 

[Domenic93]

But out of some video game companies..they picked Ninja Theory...Capcom should have made a better choice, and Tameem said he wanted DmC more contemporary to the generation today.....he did a good job doing that..but to have Dante continuously saying F*** You! every second of the game...yeah i liked how the classic DMC was all animated...Why the hell would Capcom and Ninja Theory try to make a game ...REALISTIC...and the classic Dante was cut way before his time..they can still make the new DmC for people who are NEW to the series..and make the classic one for those who were fans for years... You missed my point there...

they picked ninja theory because alex jones told capcom japan they wrote good storys(they just commissioned outside talent it wasn't internal studio talent for both games), had pretty enviroments, a small amateur studio that if they showed talent capcom would buy them to be the UK branch of capcom, just like they did with Blue castle when they made dead rising 2, they wouldn't cost much to hire, they won't fight back much.
basically the same reasons any big company would hire a basically brand new company, and they could use them as a shield for most of the criticism.

 

[Domenic93]

Um, he's NOT cutting into hi's own skin, that's where he got STABBED in a fight, and because he found he was healing faster than a human, he questioned if he WAS human.

Or at least, that's the reaction I got he was having. But it was from a fight he was in, not self inflicted. And he's NOT Emo, he's classic!Punk. If he was Emo, he'd be whining about everything instead of being a rebellious asshat who didn't give a **** about what people thought or about others for teh most part.

when did they EVER say anything that even suggested it wasn't self inflicted?

 

[VineBigBoss]

Got to say though that there are different versions of Wolverine. Sometimes he is in a comic as an overpowered brute, other times he shows a more sensitive side....sometimes he's shown as plain evil. Like Dante and Nero, it depends on the creator how the character is written and envisioned. Got to admit I prefer Wolverine when they're exploring his emotions...like when there's a plot involving Daken. There's a conflicted side of Wolverine there that I like.

Very true. What Japan views as a good or cool character is different to how the West would see a cool character. Nero was made by different minds and cultural ideas compared to DmC Dante.

It's just a difference in how each culture likes their heroes.

Yes, Loopy. And i don't think that it's only the cultural differences that makes hard to compare these two creations, but as i said, their purposes are very different:

Dante: made to impress people with action, his badass, cool and funny personality

Donte: made to be more human and fit into his world settings, story and all that.

In a bad definition: one is story-oriented (Donte) and other is entertain-oriented (Dante).

Fixed those typos. You have such trouble sometimes spelling his name, I thought I'd help you out. Is it a Virgil/Vergil kind of thing, I don't know. I mean, his name is clearly spelt out in the game, subtitles and material as DANTE, not Donte.

Glad to be of help though.

To address your points, yes, those characters are sometimes played off as physically invincible to a point, but they still show emotional and mental vulnerabilities. THese moment of "nothing stops me" often is seen as moments of bland and bad writing when there is no reaction...like when Punisher blew Howlett's face off and he just kept going.This is important though since your main example, when NT!Dante was stabbed in a fight, was from him as a teenager, likely when a lot of his hybrid powers had not yet kicked in. I mean, he's in his early 20s when he finally devil triggers in DmC. You still feel PAIN even if you just heal it.

Often times, the good writing, eastern or western, is marked be being able to explore your characters beyond "how awesome and unstoppable are they". In DMC1, we saw vulnerability in Dante; a lot of it was emotional, be we saw he had weaknesses, and if not for the sheer overdrive brought by the Sparda sword, and Trish' sacrifice, Mundus WOULD have killed him. In DMC3, we see some moments of this, but not many. th emain one that really comes to mind is when Dante pretty much takes a while to recover from being double impaled at the end of Mission 9. in DMC4, however...yeah, he's basically just an invicible god and really just comes as an unfunny jackass half the time.

I call him Donte because i find it funny when i first read it and it's a easy way to make clear of who i'm talking about.

DMC3 explored Dante beyond that, i've posted on that other topic (about how Capcom could've constructed the old DMC series). Just take a look there and see if you agree with i said there.

 

[Dante Redgrave]

when did they EVER say anything that even suggested it wasn't self inflicted?

...when the **** did they EVER suggest it WAS Self inflicted?

 

[Domenic93]

...when the **** did they EVER suggest it WAS Self inflicted?

when he said "you have to reach deep down inside your self to see if you are still sane.....or......still human....."

also just watch the tekken cgi movie "Blood Vengence" there's a character that's basically the same as Donte, his name's Shin Kamiya watch a review of it and you'll probably see his introduction scene

 

[Dante Redgrave]

when he said "you have to reach deep down inside your self to see if you are still sane.....or......still human....."

also just watch the tekken cgi movie "Blood Vengence" there's a character that's basically the same as DAnte, his name's Shin Kamiya watch a review of it and you'll probably see his introduction scene

THat statement NEVER suggested to me he mutilated himself just to see if he was human, but that as a result of the things he'd been through, he had questioned who and what he was. I always got the impression that, because of how violent his life was, that image was after he'd been stabbed and could still stand without trouble.

 

[Loopy]

when he said "you have to reach deep down inside your self to see if you are still sane.....or......still human....."
Could be either. Maybe he did get injured by SWAT or police, hid in that bathroom and saw his wound and decided to see if he was really human while he was wounded. It's not like there's any razor blade of knife in his hand in that image.

 

[Domenic93]

he could have just made the hole with his finger

 

[Loopy]

he could have just made the hole with his finger

That would be one sharp fingernail on the end of that finger:lol:....Unless you mean Dante pulled a Mundus and is also able to rip open chests with his bare hands....I guess he could what with being a Nephilim and having super strength.

Thinking about it, you could also take from Dante's statement about looking deep into himself to be psychologically and mentally looking into himself....or it could be like the Kingom hearts games where it's on about physical hearts and hearts that have emotions and feelings in them.....

 

[nightrunner_ks]

But out of some video game companies..they picked Ninja Theory...Capcom should have made a better choice, and Tameem said he wanted DmC more contemporary to the generation today.....he did a good job doing that..but to have Dante continuously saying F*** You! every second of the game...yeah i liked how the classic DMC was all animated...Why the hell would Capcom and Ninja Theory try to make a game ...REALISTIC...and the classic Dante was cut way before his time..they can still make the new DmC for people who are NEW to the series..and make the classic one for those who were fans for years... You missed my point there...

Say **** you all the time?

He has some great lines in the game. You just don't know what you're talking about.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

THat statement NEVER suggested to me he mutilated himself just to see if he was human, but that as a result of the things he'd been through, he had questioned who and what he was. I always got the impression that, because of how violent his life was, that image was after he'd been stabbed and could still stand without trouble.

To be fair, I've always figured it was something he did to himself. He's in what looks to be a random nightclub bathroom, and is wearing a pretty nice dress shirt, and has no other wounds, other than the one he's digging his finger into. I've always figured this to be something that wasn't about anyone but himself :x

That would be one sharp fingernail on the end of that finger:lol:....Unless you mean Dante pulled a Mundus and is also able to rip open chests with his bare hands....I guess he could what with being a Nephilim and having super strength.

It doesn't take more than like...three or so pounds of pressure (or something like that) to break skin. At that point it all becomes a matter of bypassing the self-control that protects you from yourself

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Nero would most likely win. Demons in DMC have high speed regeneration. Where as DmC Dante doesn't seem to have that to same extent:

Video link 1
DmC Dante using a active healing ability which is weird because it should heal by itself. If it's a ability for him to heal big wounds, then he will be in big trouble during fights.

Video link 2
Nero pierced multiple times

Video link 3
...and a heavy piercing: still doesn't die.


Video link 4
Plus the fact that Dante in DMC3 (roughly same age as DmC Dante, so proper comparison) were stabbed alot and didn't seem to die but just become immobilized.
Video link 5
and he hadn't even awakened devil trigger when stabbed.


Video link 6
0:00 - 0:40 Vergil doesn't seem to have recovered from the piercing of Rebellion. A indication that the two nephilims do not have greater regeneration than Nero when comparing DmC Vergil with DMC 3 Dante's regeneration. They are at roughly same age.

So yeah Nero would win if you ask me. As nothing indicates he doesn't have the same high speed regeneration as Dante from DMC.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

That "insesitivity to pain" is a result of bad writing and a lazy habit I have observed of japanese writers to make their heroes almost totally invincible just to show how "awesome and powerfull" they are, when all it does is make them harder and harder to actually care about because NOTHING can get them down. As a result, I do find Nt!DAnte easier to connect with on that level that Classic Dante; he does come off with a more human element.

I always did hate that in characters. Alucard was an example. Since nothing could kill him, I couldn't really care for the guy.