Which characters you taking side in ?

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

I picked Vergil's side. I mean Dante started that fight for no reason. Its not like Vergil said " yaaay hehe fuk yeah, high five bro. We did it!!!!. Our time to make the humans our bitches ha ha ha ha ha!!" He didnt say anything like that. Vergil simply said it was their time to rule. They both wanted to protect the humans but Dante started tripping because Vergil didnt care for Kat's life as much as he did. Thats why i dont even like Dante anymore. The kids a scrub.

 

[Victormaru]

I was taking both sides as I don't see neither Dante or Vergil being evil (not counting Vergil's change in Downfall). Every time you watch a movie, television or play a video game that has a character suddenly wanting to rule the world, they're automatically evil and you're just forced to hate them for some reason. Is ruling the world always gotta be a bad thing?!

They should've just let Vergil do his thang. Vergil would've eventually called Dante later on like, "What's up, bro. How's it goin'. Me? Nothin' much, just watchin' over the humans. Makin' sure everything's aight. You wanna come chill in my mansion for a bit? What?! There's more demons?! Oh damn, guess it's DmC2: Return of Vergil now."

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Honestly, I picked Vergil's side, to an extent.
That's my problem with this version, in the original, Vergil was a cruel cunning B-word, and he felt no emotion, you didn't sympathize with him, but instead just looked at him and went "Badass overflow".
Here, the "cruel" is that he nearly sacrificed a girl FOR THE FATE OF THE ENTIRE WORLD!
Dante on the other hand, is the complete opposite, he's supposed to come off as a heroic vigilante like V, but instead comes off as someone who wants NO LAW WHATSOEVER!
And no I haven't played VD yet, because I lost the disc for the game.

 

[788Masri]

Dante all the way.
Vergil has absolutely no value for human life what so ever. when it came down to it he was more than willing to let kat die inorder to further his goals. now i aint arguing that against all of humanity one life isnt that much of a deal. but it was the ease with which he did so, if Vergil DID care for Kat at all it would have been about him gritting his teeth with a tear in his eye as he is FORCED to abandon a comrade and friend inorder to save countless others. however what really happens is "lol you keep her i dont give a ****",.

this Vergil shares the same lust for power as the original one did. he wants to control everything (hinted in his hacking dialogue). he didnt see Mundus doing anything wrong other than his method. he thinks that he is by far superior to humans and therefore it is his RIGHT to rule them however he pleases. might isnt right therefore i cant root for him.

Dante on the other hand is chaos incarnate to begin with. he just wrecks stuff because he can. but when it comes down to it, he cares about his friends and comrades. and has a very strong sense of moral justice, he stood up to Vergil then not because of Kat (i thought he was using her as an example to get Vergil change his mind) but because he knows that just stepping up to take Mundus's place is wrong and he wont allow it to happen.say what you will but that takes balls. im talking nevile longbotton level here.

well thats my two pennies in for ya.

 

[BLACKSWIPE]

I'm taking the side of Dante.

He has hope in humanity, that humanity can strive for their own path...rather than a dicatorship by Vergil.

 

[TheNoHeartedBeing]

Dante all the way.
Vergil has absolutely no value for human life what so ever. when it came down to it he was more than willing to let kat die inorder to further his goals. now i aint arguing that against all of humanity one life isnt that much of a deal. but it was the ease with which he did so, if Vergil DID care for Kat at all it would have been about him gritting his teeth with a tear in his eye as he is FORCED to abandon a comrade and friend inorder to save countless others. however what really happens is "lol you keep her i dont give a ****",.

this Vergil shares the same lust for power as the original one did. he wants to control everything (hinted in his hacking dialogue). he didnt see Mundus doing anything wrong other than his method. he thinks that he is by far superior to humans and therefore it is his RIGHT to rule them however he pleases. might isnt right therefore i cant root for him.

Dante on the other hand is chaos incarnate to begin with. he just wrecks stuff because he can. but when it comes down to it, he cares about his friends and comrades. and has a very strong sense of moral justice, he stood up to Vergil then not because of Kat (i thought he was using her as an example to get Vergil change his mind) but because he knows that just stepping up to take Mundus's place is wrong and he wont allow it to happen.say what you will but that takes balls. im talking nevile longbotton level here.

well thats my two pennies in for ya.

Vergil was thinking of the majority.

 

[ChibiVerg]

I'm taking the side of Dante.

He has hope in humanity, that humanity can strive for their own path...rather than a dicatorship by Vergil.

The sad thing is that we don't know Vergil's complete plans. The brothers didn't really have that great of a talk before we saw steel on steel. Vergil may have wanted to be all mighty dictator or he may have wanted to just guide humans like how so many people believe some type of god guides us now.

Besides I'm pretty sure Vergil should have been smart enough to understand that it's practically impossible to unified the world under one umbrella. I mean we have so many different cultures and views and religions there's bound to be someone hating on someone else.

 

[788Masri]

Vergil was thinking of the majority.

if that was the case he would have made the arguement that it was a time of chaos and the greater good demanded a leader to pull humanity through this dark time to bring them together rather than;
"they are like childeren" and pointing out how humans are incredibly weak, dumb and overall incompetant and because he is stronger he deserves to rule them however he pleases.

 

[Loopy]

if that was the case he would have made the arguement that it was a time of chaos and the greater good demanded a leader to pull humanity through this dark time to bring them together rather than;
"they are like childeren" and pointing out how humans are incredibly weak, dumb and overall incompetant and because he is stronger he deserves to rule them however he pleases.

Yep. Maybe if Vergil had worded his plan differently, it would have been more acceptable, but he has no respect for humans. It might as well be Mundus again with what Vergil had planned.
Even in Vergil's Order HQ, there were security cameras tracking Dante as he entered. So I guess if Vergil did get a chance to rule, he would do it with constant monitoring. In some ways, no better than Mundus. Heck, even Mundus didn't call humans weak like children, but his opinion was no better.

 

[LysseC]

Vergil, but with some... points to be made.

Surely, after Mundus' defeat, the power structure of the world would be destroyed; add the whole collapsing-Limbo thing, and you're in for a great zombie demonic apocalypse... In a situation like this, the result would probably be the elimination of those rules that ensure a civilized convivence, and that had been the product of centuries of philosophical and political thought: democracy, rights, and so on. (even though in this world, democracy is just a facade, the principle still holds)
The outcome would probably be the creation of little groups and communities, each with its own rules, groups that would come to fight each other for one reason or the other. (I'm being totally influenced by The Walking Dead here.. but I don't think that a similar outcome would be so improbable in a situation like this.)
In a situation like this, humans would need a strong guide, someone to help them face the "demon emergency".

Then they'll have to rebuild the institutions they need: the states and the international community.
Now, this is not an easy process: democracy is not for everyone. One must be educated to democracy, beacuse the democratic structure is essentially fragile: the major problem of democracy is, if anyone is allowed to speak his/her mind, how can we tell someone "No, you can't say these things", even if this someone is Hitler? (basic problems of political philosophy here)
The point is, democratic culture is not so easy to cultivate, we need to learn how to make it work.

So, how does Vergil fit in all of this?
Let me use Vergil's own metaphor: humans are like children.
Children need parents to educate them and to protect them from harm. Humans are children in the sense that they are facing an enemy (demons) who is much stronger (at least physically) than them. And they need protection from themselves in the sense that they need to be taught how to control their worst instincts (they DO have them: think about men who beat their wives, just to make an immediately comprehensible example).
But, at some points, parents MUST step aside and let them grow up.
The point is, Vergil is right in saying that humans must be protected, at least for now, but then he'll have to gradually let them walk on their own. I don't honestly know if this is exactly what he had in mind, but I think that Dante's solution (let them do whatever they want because they must be free) is worse.

 

[788Masri]

Vergil, .

at no point when arguing with Dante did Vergil even imply that he would try and make humanity strong enough to reisit demons to a point where he no longer had to rule them as some sort of unnecessary evil. he compared us to children to emphasize our naivety, stupidity, weakness and downright uselessness. he said he would respect his "subjects" not lead them not help them "respect" as in he would treat us with kindness.....like a king would his own subjects. our fates would have been entirely down to his own wants and desires. hes not trying to help humanity grow, he wants to rule it.

 

[ChibiVerg]

Honestly I feel like his lines closer to the end of the game were really out of place. I mean it was one day a nice, caring Vergil and the next it was "Why would you risk you life for a girl!? Humans are like children!". I feel like the writers made him "evil" too sudden....

 

[LysseC]

hes not trying to help humanity grow, he wants to rule it.

You're right in saying that he is not thinking about stepping aside at some point, but I still get the feeling that he doesn't want to rule it for the sake of power (the power hungry Vergil comes out later, and for reasons completely different from the problem of ruling over humans), but for humans' own good (as he sees it).
As for what he meant with "respect", he literally says: "We will RESPECT our subjects, not ENSLAVE them". Now, maybe I'm biased by my philosophy studies, but this phrase can be read as in "we will let them have some degree of freedom", beacuse "respect", if read in connection with "not enslave", can mean exactly that.
Now, if read as such, Vergil's words become less harsh: he DOES care for humans' well being, just thinks that humans, if left to themselves, will not be able to achieve it, so he has to be the one to create a well ordained society in which they can live peacefully, free, not enslaved.
I think this interpretation of his words is better than the downright "he wants to rule just like Mundus, a cruel emperor" one, because it explains how the Vergil we are shown in the first part of the game is not a total facade: he DOES stand for humanity, just like Dante. They only diverge in what they think is good for humans.
And, if I am to be totally honest with you and myself, I think Vergil is right, we DO need a guide sometimes.

 

[LysseC]

Honestly I feel like his lines closer to the end of the game were really out of place. I mean it was one day a nice, caring Vergil and the next it was "Why would you risk you life for a girl!? Humans are like children!". I feel like the writers made him "evil" too sudden....

I totally agree with you: I mean, one moment he goes all "Kat, you're still alive!!" like he's happy and relieved to see her, and then, IN THE NEXT CUTSCENE he acts like he doesn't give a **** if she's being tortured... I mean, please, some coherence here, Verge!!!!
Maybe it can be understood like this: the "Kat you're still alive!" line can be a sort of slip of tongue, a moment when he says exactly what he feels. In the rest of the story, he "does what is necessary", as he says in Vergil's Downfall, and he has to be hard because it IS still true that Dante is more important to the cause than poor Kat, at least in an utilitaristic sense.

That said, it is most probable that Ninja Theory wanted to show him collaborating with Dante on the one hand, and had to make him the final boss on the other...

 

[ChibiVerg]

I'm pretty much agreeing with LysseC here.

How you interpret Vergil's words really decides if he truly is a rotten tomato or just a slightly bruised one. I mean in VD I feel like you can really see that what he said about respecting humans (to some degree or course, he probably won' t step down from the throne) may have been more genuine than what a lot of the fandom thinks. As I interpreted the "what would you do with a second chance scene" it was obvious he regretted how harsh he was with Kat. I mean flash backs of Kat predominated that memory sequence... it even ended with Kat. Plus right after we see him concerned for "Kat" being chased by this demon and saying "Kat! I'm coming!"

I think NT just had some trouble being able to show two sides of Vergil. The caring, brotherly side and his ambitious side. In general I find a lot of ambitious character seeming to be a little one minded and to try and deepen his character by making him less Power hungry (until VD) probably was a little challenging. Guess that's why we get from "He was raw, just like you before *sweet smile*" to "she was useful *glance*".

 

[LysseC]

Yeah, I mean, probably they had their reasons to make him like this (there are a lot of fans out there who wanted to see Vergil on the side of good, but, then again, he IS one of the most important villains in the old series, so not having him as a boss would not work).
There are reasons for him to act kindly towards Kat, and there are reasons for him to think that humans are like children yada yada... The only problem is that somehow, while writing down his lines, they "separated" those aspects, making him seem contradictory, while he probably isn't.
As we see in VD, even though he tries not to show it in DmC, he has unresolved issues, something that, deep inside, is eating away at him. That's why he goes psycho in the end. I mean, I can relate... >.<
As for stepping down from the throne, you're right again, he wouldn't. This was just me stretching his character to the point of OOC. My bad. =P

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

I'm pretty much agreeing with LysseC here.

How you interpret Vergil's words really decides if he truly is a rotten tomato or just a slightly bruised one. I mean in VD I feel like you can really see that what he said about respecting humans (to some degree or course, he probably won' t step down from the throne) may have been more genuine than what a lot of the fandom thinks. As I interpreted the "what would you do with a second chance scene" it was obvious he regretted how harsh he was with Kat. I mean flash backs of Kat predominated that memory sequence... it even ended with Kat. Plus right after we see him concerned for "Kat" being chased by this demon and saying "Kat! I'm coming!"

I think NT just had some trouble being able to show two sides of Vergil. The caring, brotherly side and his ambitious side. In general I find a lot of ambitious character seeming to be a little one minded and to try and deepen his character by making him less Power hungry (until VD) probably was a little challenging. Guess that's why we get from "He was raw, just like you before *sweet smile*" to "she was useful *glance*".

I honestly think vergil is just a very confused person who is afraid of getting too close. Loopy has mentioned before that maybe Vergil seeing the love his parents had for one another cost their lives while throwing Dante and himself into chaos might have put a bad taste in his mouth. I personally don't feel Vergil is rotten to the core; just a deeply disturbed and insecure individual. He used hacking and shutting himself off from others as a coping mechanism and to bring order to his life (lol the order eh?) while Dante used sex and boos. They both had a crutch to lean on but Dante overcame his crutch and Vergil fell (no pun intended). I see him as a really twitchy individual who is afraid of what might happen if he lets his feelings get in the way; which is why he has the occasional slip ups of being sweet one moment and a dick the next. It's almost as if he realizes himself falling for Kat again and then stops and says to himself "grow a pair, snap out of it don't let those pesky feelings get in the way" . That really is the only way I can cope with how bipolar he is in the game....or maybe he is just bipolar, just like I think he is obsessive compulsive ha.

But yeah, I'm not sure ninja theory knew how to make him conflicted which why his dick moments tend to pop up out of nowhere from time to time and almost seems ham-fisted in.

 

[ChibiVerg]

I can relate to Vergil on the "I'm going to stay in the basement and stare at my computer all day". Even the notion of him being a computer dork, hacker who spends the majority of his time inside probably in his adoptive parent's basement makes him sound so much more vulnerable. It makes him sound so much more "human". Hey he still has his human moments too in the game and the comic and in the beginning of VD.

Plus hes been raised by humans the majority of his life... I don't think anyone whos been raised by humans can just turn around and hate humans just like that. He still probably has an inkling of care for humans and at least gratitude for his foster/adoptive parents (maybe? Am I pushing it?). Maybe that inkling of care will come back and help Dante get his brother back from the other side (no matter how many cookies they have to offer!:troll: But thats a whole different topic!)

 

[LysseC]

I can relate to Vergil on the "I'm going to stay in the basement and stare at my computer all day". Even the notion of him being a computer dork, hacker who spends the majority of his time inside probably in his adoptive parent's basement makes him sound so much more vulnerable. It makes him sound so much more "human". Hey he still has his human moments too in the game and the comic and in the beginning of VD.

Plus hes been raised by humans the majority of his life... I don't think anyone whos been raised by humans can just turn around and hate humans just like that. He still probably has an inkling of care for humans and at least gratitude for his foster/adoptive parents (maybe? Am I pushing it?). Maybe that inkling of care will come back and help Dante get his brother back from the other side (no matter how many cookies they have to offer!:troll: But thats a whole different topic!)

You know, I could subscribe every word you said.
I can totally imagine little Vergil having had a difficult time during adolescence, maybe because he was insecure and shy, in contrast to Dante's confident attitude. And his foster parents helping him through that, maybe. We are told nothing about them, I'm so curious! But then again, that's just my imagination at work!

 

[ChibiVerg]

You know, I could subscribe every word you said.
I can totally imagine little Vergil having had a difficult time during adolescence, maybe because he was insecure and shy, in contrast to Dante's confident attitude. And his foster parents helping him through that, maybe. We are told nothing about them, I'm so curious! But then again, that's just my imagination at work!

Can you imagine if Vergil was the awkward nerd at the back of the class. Of course he was a good looking awkward computer nerd 0.0" Seriously I bet girls were throwing themselves at his feet but he was probably too awkward around them.

Sorry for going off topic!