What Would Vergil Of Done???

[Lionheart]

i think that Dante and Vergil each had their own reaction to their mothers death. revenge was Dante's reaction, Vergil's was to seek power. it's not shallow, looking into why the twins each reacted the way they did is an opportunity to figure out a lot about them (or at least create interesting theories).


huh? how would Dante know if Vergil had an answer or not before asking. this entire debate proves that the default assumption is that someone would have a rational motive for seeking power.

i am not saying their is no answer just because Vergil didn't provide one. i am saying that the entirety of his behavior suggests to me that his fathers power is something he desperately feels that he needs just to feel safe or to even begin to attempt to be content with his life. Vergil already failed to protect his mother that seems like enough to motivate his actions including that speech of his.

Dante was trying to get an answer out of him. He could've outright said what he thought Vergil was thinking, but maybe he wasn't sure, and maybe he didn't want to say it out loud. Besides, it's a vehicle to make the story more interesting. Simply telling the viewer/player what Vergil's intent is leaves nothing to the imagination. I'm saying he suspected Vergil had a motive to gain power, but that he wasn't sure what that motive was. That, or the player is intentionally left guessing.

Just to feel safe? What are you talking about? He was the strongest demon aside from Mundus, together with Dante. He tried to emulate Sparda, that much was clear. In order to emulate Sparda, he would have to rule over either the human world or the demon world, and perhaps preserve Sparda's legacy (by having a child). As he didn't care for humans much and seemed to hate demons (like Dante), I would assume he'd close the hell gate so that nobody else will lose their mother and father like he did.

After he asks Vergil what he needs that power for, he even says 'no matter how hard you try, you'll never be like father'.

 

[darkslayer13]

Dante was trying to get an answer out of him. He could've outright said what he thought Vergil was thinking, but maybe he wasn't sure, and maybe he didn't want to say it out loud. Besides, it's a vehicle to make the story more interesting. Simply telling the viewer/player what Vergil's intent is leaves nothing to the imagination. I'm saying he suspected Vergil had a motive to gain power, but that he wasn't sure what that motive was. That, or the player is intentionally left guessing.

Just to feel safe? What are you talking about? He was the strongest demon aside from Mundus, together with Dante. He tried to emulate Sparda, that much was clear. In order to emulate Sparda, he would have to rule over either the human world or the demon world, and perhaps preserve Sparda's legacy (by having a child). As he didn't care for humans much and seemed to hate demons (like Dante), I would assume he'd close the hell gate so that nobody else will lose their mother and father like he did.

After he asks Vergil what he needs that power for, he even says 'no matter how hard you try, you'll never be like father'.

my point is that Dante would not be able to know if Vergil had an answer to get out of him, so Vergil not having an answer would not result in Dante not asking the question.

i don't recall saying that Vergil's reaction was rational. in fact i have said that his behavior is completely irrational in every thread that brings up the subject of Vergil's motive's or moral alignment. he doesn't need Sparda's power due to a lack of power. his need is entirely psychological, he thinks he needs it therefore he can't do anything other then try to get it.

how would taking over a world ( not a trait Sparda is known for) qualify as emulating Sparda. Sparda is known for betraying demons and protecting humans. even when Vergil was voluntarily trapped in the demon world his thought was not " i can take over and rule" it was " oh, Mundus is here. Sparda beat him, i should try that". the idea of fighting Mundus didn't occur to him until he saw Mundus in hell.

 

[Lionheart]

my point is that Dante would not be able to know if Vergil had an answer to get out of him, so Vergil not having an answer would not result in Dante not asking the question.

i don't recall saying that Vergil's reaction was rational. in fact i have said that his behavior is completely irrational in every thread that brings up the subject of Vergil's motive's or moral alignment. he doesn't need Sparda's power due to a lack of power. his need is entirely psychological, he thinks he needs it therefore he can't do anything other then try to get it.

how would taking over a world ( not a trait Sparda is known for) qualify as emulating Sparda. Sparda is known for betraying demons and protecting humans. even when Vergil was voluntarily trapped in the demon world his thought was not " i can take over and rule" it was " oh, Mundus is here. Sparda beat him, i should try that". the idea of fighting Mundus didn't occur to him until he saw Mundus in hell.

I understood what you meant, and I explained why you were wrong. If Dante suspects Vergil has a reason (but isn't sure whether he's correct), he can definitely ask that. Doesn't anybody understand subtlety anymore?

Sparda also ruled over the human world, and supposedly lived in Fortuna as protector of that city. He is worshipped by many people and called the Dark Knight. Or did you forget about that?

Yes, I already realized you meant Vergil has no rational reason for wanting power. I say there's too many things pointing to Vergil actually having a reason. Besides, I'm sure Dante was traumatized, too, but I don't see him wanting more power and not having any reason for it.
You said Sparda is known for betraying demons and protecting humans. Exactly one of my points. Vergil wants to be like Sparda, so is it so weird to see him protecting humans and betraying demons, or the other way around? He already betrayed Arkham.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vergil always planned to kill Mundus, but he ended up on his doorstep a little sooner than he had planned (due to being defeated by Dante in DMC3).

Look, I'm not going to say Vergil has no reason for anything, just because it isn't made clear what his reasons are in the game. If you want to believe Vergil is a man of little sense, then do. I don't think he's that foolish and insane, though.

 

[darkslayer13]

I understood what you meant, and I explained why you were wrong. If Dante suspects Vergil has a reason (but isn't sure whether he's correct), he can definitely ask that. Doesn't anybody understand subtlety anymore?

Sparda also ruled over the human world, and supposedly lived in Fortuna as protector of that city. He is worshipped by many people and called the Dark Knight. Or did you forget about that?

Yes, I already realized you meant Vergil has no rational reason for wanting power. I say there's too many things pointing to Vergil actually having a reason. Besides, I'm sure Dante was traumatized, too, but I don't see him wanting more power and not having any reason for it.
You said Sparda is known for betraying demons and protecting humans. Exactly one of my points. Vergil wants to be like Sparda, so is it so weird to see him protecting humans and betraying demons, or the other way around? He already betrayed Arkham.

I wouldn't be surprised if Vergil always planned to kill Mundus, but he ended up on his doorstep a little sooner than he had planned (due to being defeated by Dante in DMC3).

Look, I'm not going to say Vergil has no reason for anything, just because it isn't made clear what his reasons are in the game. If you want to believe Vergil is a man of little sense, then do. I don't think he's that foolish and insane, though.

i did not forget about Sparda's role in Fortuna but it seems very unlikely that Sparda was literally the ruler of anything other than Fortuna, it would be to inconsistent with everything else we have seen. his legend is only a religion in Fortuna everywhere else it is just a fairy tale believed only by demons and humans involved with the demon world.

Dante would have no way of telling the difference between Vergil having a rational answer that he is keeping to himself and Vergil not having a rational answer at all without Dante asking Vergil for an answer first so Dante asking Vergil for an answer does not in anyway qualify as anything even vaugly resembling evidence that Vergil has a rational answer.

i am not saying that Vergil does not have a reason to seek power i am saying that his reasons are not rational and do not require him to do anything with that power. Dante was affected by his mothers death in a different way ( Dante stopping Vergil instead of helping him or trying to do the same thing on his own is proof of that).

what Vergil said in hell suggests that he decided to fight Mundus immediately before saying it. if he had already planned to fight Mundus he would have said something else or not said anything.

 

[Arwen Michaelas]

I read somewhere that the only reason vergil was so desperate for power is because he blamed himself for eva's death when they were little, and he got in his head that he wasn't strong enough, in this game he could've justified gong after sparda's power as being the rightful owner, since it was just sitting there for the taking 'that never sat well with me, what the hell' and I'm with that.
that being said, I really don't think he had a particular agenda in mind, but the next step to ultimate power is ultimate status 'for a lack of a better word' so i think he would've been gunning for mundus' position as king of demons, and the ultimate ending would've been the same, vergil in the demon world, and dante heart broken.

 

[CMAX]

Well, maybe Vergil did have a family, if you believe the theory that Nero is Vergil's son then it makes a bit more since.
Vergil wanted to have more power so that he could protect his wife and or son.
Its not a perfect theory as people have said above its pretty obvious that Vergil didn't have much love for humans, but eh..... maybe he got lonely

 

[TerrorA]

Well, maybe Vergil did have a family, if you believe the theory that Nero is Vergil's son then it makes a bit more since.
Vergil wanted to have more power so that he could protect his wife and or son.
Its not a perfect theory as people have said above its pretty obvious that Vergil didn't have much love for humans, but eh..... maybe he got lonely

*imagines*

Dante: *disgusted face*

Vergil: What? I'm still human! I have needs!

Dante: *disgusted face*

Vergil: DON'T JUDGE ME!!!

 

[CMAX]

*imagines*

Dante: *disgusted face*

Vergil: What? I'm still human! I have needs!

Dante: *disgusted face*

Vergil: DON'T JUDGE ME!!!

This raises the all important question.
What kinda chicks is Vergil into?

 

[Loopy]

This raises the all important question.
What kinda chicks is Vergil into?

VB, oh Veebs, this question is calling your name. Forum member VB would be his choice of woman, and she would argue anyone who said different. :tongue:

Seriously though, I'm not sure. Considering he doesn't show much interest in humans at all, I don't know what he'd go for. I guess she'd have to share his ideals or have some kind of worth to him. I certainly can't see Vergil being into just any kind of normal woman.

 

[TerrorA]

VB, oh Veebs, this question is calling your name. Forum member VB would be his choice of woman, and she would argue anyone who said different. :tongue:

Seriously though, I'm not sure. Considering he doesn't show much interest in humans at all, I don't know what he'd go for. I guess she'd have to share his ideals or have some kind of worth to him. I certainly can't see Vergil being into just any kind of normal woman.

Girl: I'm a powerful witch, can use blades with the best of them, and I'm always looking for a chance to increase my power.

Vergil: Pack it up minions! She's the one!