Well, since Trolls are trying so hard...

[Railazel]

I decided to pick on one of the things this game did do inaccurately. Of course, a game is never really perfect but, heck, since seemingly people have been calling it racist and anti- religious, I should at least add some intellectualism into this whole "let's nitpick!" thing.

Basically, the one of the issues that I've had with DmC was its representation of punk culture. It wasn't too bad considering that the ideologies are there and NT did a good job putting them in a positive light. However, Dante's character and his design don't exactly match up with the culture he was meant to represent. For example, him wearing skinny jeans which are more associated with pop and hip- hop. Also, the fact that he listens to his brother in order to accomplish things rather than thinking of things and doing them himself might go against the DIY mentality punks tend to have.

Other than that, there is also the game's music choice. Combichrist was a great choice but why Noisia? Dubstep/DnB aren't punk at all. I could understand it during some parts, such as Devil's Dalliance or when Limbo goes crazy, but boss battles like Mundus or Bob Barbas could have a little more substance if an anti- establishment song was put in the background.

Lastly is the lack of variety or originality when it comes to who exactly the foe is in society. Punk culture doesn't just worry about financial big wigs but also corrupt politicans. Even more so, it also worrys about discrimination against race, sex, and gender. Placing these kind of things within in the context of the game could also give certain scenes more substance.

Just some stuff I noticed. Much better than worrying about "racism."

 

[BLACKSWIPE]

For me DmC just wasn't all 'punk'. I feel like it had more of a 'Night club with a heavy metal band playing' type feel. I am quite disappointed with the fact that DmC didn't try to incorporate the other lesser known flaws of society. I would have loved to see something about racial or gender discrimination in there. DmC missed its overall chance to actually make a major impact, rather than just being another action-y game. Though I still love it for what it is.

 

[Loopy]

Basically, the one of the issues that I've had with DmC was its representation of punk culture. It wasn't too bad considering that the ideologies are there and NT did a good job putting them in a positive light. However, Dante's character and his design don't exactly match up with the culture he was meant to represent. For example, him wearing skinny jeans which are more associated with pop and hip- hop. Also, the fact that he listens to his brother in order to accomplish things rather than thinking of things and doing them himself might go against the DIY mentality punks tend to have.

Punk culture was about DIY clothing, slashing tops and ripping jeans and doing whatever you wanted. And I've found some pictures of the Ramones wearing skinny jeans...and Sid Vicious certainly did, so skinny jeans are not exclusively pop. There's even an article about it here. Punks- influential punk bands- did wear skinny jeans. http://skinnyjeansme.wordpress.com/skinny-jeans-history/

As for Dante. He did what he wanted before meeting his brother, and even then he was unsure about joining the cause until he found out the truth. Then he wanted to take them down, and Vergil had the plans to do that. Besides, Dante does have ideas of his own. He went against Vergil, got into Lilith's club and took her hostage. That was all Dante. But that, acting on your own initiative is just one side of punk. Dante's also hedonistic, rebels against the powers that be, swears, did smoke in trailers, lived on the edge of society and does have a 'don't give a damn' attitude. All in all a stereotypical idea of what a punk is. Punk is rebellion, standing against the established norms of society and Dante did that.

Other than that, there is also the game's music choice. Combichrist was a great choice but why Noisia? Dubstep/DnB aren't punk at all. I could understand it during some parts, such as Devil's Dalliance or when Limbo goes crazy, but boss battles like Mundus or Bob Barbas could have a little more substance if an anti- establishment song was put in the background.

You mean you want a track with lyrics in it? Because that's the only way I can think of to put an anti-establishment song in the game. Something stereotypical like the Sex pistols, The ramones or The Clash?

Lastly is the lack of variety or originality when it comes to who exactly the foe is in society. Punk culture doesn't just worry about financial big wigs but also corrupt politicans. Even more so, it also worrys about discrimination against race, sex, and gender. Placing these kind of things within in the context of the game could also give certain scenes more substance.

There's an article here about punks and racism.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...AEwAA#v=onepage&q=punk culture racism&f=false
Not all punks were anti racist. If they were anything, a small minority were anti racist towards Afro-carribbians. Otherwise there were instances of racism in punk culture and notable band managers and bands such as Joy division making disparaging comments towards people of race.

As for what punks fought against. It was society in general, from fashion, media to monarchy, politicians and bankers. I don't think the politicians could be fought again, because as we saw with how Mundus treated the President, they were puppets following him out of fear.Mundus basically was all the politicians and the bankers. He was the representation of what was wrong in society and the cause of it.
Dante fought against those things by taking on the demon king and his followers, tearing down the power structures as he went to liberate the humans from the constructed society.
Just some stuff I noticed. Much better than worrying about "racism."

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Basically, the one of the issues that I've had with DmC was its representation of punk culture. It wasn't too bad considering that the ideologies are there and NT did a good job putting them in a positive light. However, Dante's character and his design don't exactly match up with the culture he was meant to represent. For example, him wearing skinny jeans which are more associated with pop and hip- hop. Also, the fact that he listens to his brother in order to accomplish things rather than thinking of things and doing them himself might go against the DIY mentality punks tend to have.

Punk attire doesn't have to follow one gender-type. Back then some punks wore just the type of clothes Dante wears. Also Dante rebels against a demon controlled city and the normal status of Limbo.

Other than that, there is also the game's music choice. Combichrist was a great choice but why Noisia? Dubstep/DnB aren't punk at all. I could understand it during some parts, such as Devil's Dalliance or when Limbo goes crazy, but boss battles like Mundus or Bob Barbas could have a little more substance if an anti- establishment song was put in the background.

Nosia has done more then Dubstep on DmC. They've done slow music and music for build up. I always thought Nosia was chosen because dubstep is usually tied to "Music of the devil" by people of religious fanatics, so it kind of ties in. Plus, Nosia's music isn't even dubstep. There's no base drops, or real wub wub in it except with the Hunter demon theme.

Lastly is the lack of variety or originality when it comes to who exactly the foe is in society. Punk culture doesn't just worry about financial big wigs but also corrupt politicans. Even more so, it also worrys about discrimination against race, sex, and gender. Placing these kind of things within in the context of the game could also give certain scenes more substance.

Actually DmC did go for other things besides financials. They did big business soft drinks, (Coke-a-cola) popular news stations (FOX news), Popular clubs, and then financial working buisnisess (Wall Street).

And racism was shown. When Dante first met Phinias, he naturally assumed because Phinias was a demon he was evil, but was proven wrong and shown that not all demons are evil, which ties in to Dante showing Mercy to Lilith not only to hold her hostage, but to also test if all demons weren't the same. This didn't go the same way with Vergil as he still believed all demons kill.

 

[berto]

I don't know, man, if I was going to pick a topic it be how the game picks at media and news outlets, aka 'The Man,' while still using said methods to forward itself. I'd say the game was a tool of the man to get into our heads by pretending to be against himself but in reality it's just another tactic to make us believe we are fighting the man when in actuality The Man is just manipulating us. The Man just got a little smarter by playing the double agent, man!

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I don't know, man, if I was going to pick a topic it be how the game picks at media and news outlets, aka 'The Man,' while still using said methods to forward itself. I'd say the game was a tool of the man to get into our heads by pretending to be against himself but in reality it's just another tactic to make us believe we are fighting the man when in actuality The Man is just manipulating us. The Man just got a little smarter by playing the double agent, man!

 

[Loopy]

I don't know, man, if I was going to pick a topic it be how the game picks at media and news outlets, aka 'The Man,' while still using said methods to forward itself. I'd say the game was a tool of the man to get into our heads by pretending to be against himself but in reality it's just another tactic to make us believe we are fighting the man when in actuality The Man is just manipulating us. The Man just got a little smarter by playing the double agent, man!

I agree completely:lol: It's all 'the man's' fault and the game is one huge trick.

 

[Railazel]

And I've found some pictures of the Ramones wearing skinny jeans...and Sid Vicious certainly did, so skinny jeans are not exclusively pop. There's even an article about it here. Punks- influential punk bands- did wear skinny jeans. http://skinnyjeansme.wordpress.com/skinny-jeans-history/

Back then some punks wore just the type of clothes Dante wears.

But skinny jeans aren't intrinsically Punk. They, like pretty much any fashion statement, have been adopted into various other styles, moving from Pop into Punk and other fashion styles. They are no more punk than sagging is afro- centric .

As for Dante. He did what he wanted before meeting his brother, and even then he was unsure about joining the cause until he found out the truth.

But before hand he was doing nothing for nobody but himself. Punks don't just rebel because they feel like it. They do it under the belief that no establishment is better than a screwed- up one. We all know society has problems. The basic idea behind Punk is that to get rid of those problems, people have to do stuff for themselves. Dante just didn't give a dang. He had no passion for anything and just lived life as he wanted.

All in all a stereotypical idea of what a punk is.

That's the problem I'm exploiting here.

You mean you want a track with lyrics in it? Because that's the only way I can think of to put an anti-establishment song in the game. Something stereotypical like the Sex pistols, The ramones or The Clash?

Not really stereotypical or anything. Just something other than Dubstep/DnB.

Nosia has done more then Dubstep on DmC. They've done slow music and music for build up. I always thought Nosia was chosen because dubstep is usually tied to "Music of the devil" by people of religious fanatics, so it kind of ties in. Plus, Nosia's music isn't even dubstep. There's no base drops, or real wub wub in it except with the Hunter demon theme.

I'm not really worried about NT choosing Noisia, but why they chose Noisia. Again, their music was awesome and perfect during some parts of the game but moments like Mundus' boss battle would've benefitted if a more appropriate genre of music was playing in the background.

By the way, Dubstep isn't just "base drops" and "wubs." Dubstep is a glitch- oriented genre using different alterations of sounds to create unique rythyms. So you can have Dubstep without the wobble base (aka "wubs") and no base drops.

There's an article here about punks and racism.
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=...AEwAA#v=onepage&q=punk culture racism&f=false
Not all punks were anti racist. If they were anything, a small minority were anti racist towards Afro-carribbians. Otherwise there were instances of racism in punk culture and notable band managers and bands such as Joy division making disparaging comments towards people of race.

Ah, that's a good point.

As for what punks fought against. It was society in general, from fashion, media to monarchy, politicians and bankers.

Actually DmC did go for other things besides financials. They did big business soft drinks, (Coke-a-cola) popular news stations (FOX news), Popular clubs, and then financial working buisnisess (Wall Street).

Well, really, to talk about this I would have to go into ideology and stuff, which I don't feel like doing. All in all, the game hit the mark with Mundus but there are better choices for side issues than soda and clubs. I'm not denying that that stuff is a part of what Punks think about but its not all of it either.

 

[Chancey289]

Dante sure seems to capture that whole punk thing back then to an extent while still looking like a Dante. I seriously think the fans are mainly upset because it isn't an anime looking Devil May Cry. Anime fanatics think everything that isn't from Japan is supposedly inferior. Dare you to tell me I'm wrong. Those people don't even acknowledge that anime and cartoons are the same exact thing.

Break down DMC for a bit and put what's vital to the DMC DNA in a more contemporary setting and you basically get DmC sort of. I personally have my own vision for a Devil May Cry that would be inspired more off of the impression DMC 1 gave me but hey, I'm not a developer.
*Note: I was speaking just in terms of the identity of Devil May Cry*

As for gameplay, it could use better boss battles and a difficulty that is a tad more spiked but the combat maechanics are comfortable and still hold depth and substance. It's a very encouraging building block for what Devil May Cry should stick with here on out. Work with it. Thank you for the lack of styles. Me and that interface never got along too well. I was always sick of him telling me I couldn't do something when I knew I was capable of such things at any time I felt like it. He was an asshole that was only tolerable to an extent.

 

[Loopy]

But skinny jeans aren't intrinsically Punk. They, like pretty much any fashion statement, have been adopted into various other styles, moving from Pop into Punk and other fashion styles. They are no more punk than sagging is afro- centric .

I really don't see the problem. So Dante wears skinny jeans. No they are no more punk than other fashion items, but punks did wear them. I don't know what else you would expect Dante to wear on his lower half to show how 'punk' he was. A kilt maybe considering appropriating scottish tartan was popular for punks? What next, you want him to wear the stereotypical dog collar...how about some Vivienne Westwood designer accessories? Man did she sell out too. Actually, it was her and her SEX clothes shop that gave birth to punk fashion and music and was with Malcom McLaren who managed The sex pistols. It's a shame how commerical her fashion is considering its roots.

And I'd like to point out that the band The Ramones was punk-pop and so were The clash. There is no set idea of Punk. Punk does not stand on its own. It combines other musical styles and influences including pop and some regge beats.

But before hand he was doing nothing for nobody but himself. Punks don't just rebel because they feel like it. They do it under the belief that no establishment is better than a screwed- up one. We all know society has problems. The basic idea behind Punk is that to get rid of those problems, people have to do stuff for themselves. Dante just didn't give a dang. He had no passion for anything and just lived life as he wanted.

That's how you feel about Dante. He started off not caring, but then he changed during the game and by the end said he would protect humanity because he wanted them to rule themselves.

Punks do rebel because they feel like it. And they feel like it because of society. But you also have punks that do just like to cause chaos for the sake of it, burn things, take drugs, sleep with women and do as they please.

Punks aren't freedom fighters, and neither are they hooligans.There are many kinds.
It came about as a backlash towards the hippies of the 60s, the peace and love philosophy. They hated authority and the establishment because it held them back. This was one of the first times in history where youth said they did not want to be like their parents, forced into jobs for the sake of it.

There were neo-nazi punks who were very racist, like the skinhead movement. There were right wing political punks and conservatives. There were punks who practiced nihilism...notably Iggy Pop. Whereas bands like The clash were socio-political. Just listen to London Calling and you can tell what they were about.

Well, really, to talk about this I would have to go into ideology and stuff, which I don't feel like doing. All in all, the game hit the mark with Mundus but there are better choices for side issues than soda and clubs. I'm not denying that that stuff is a part of what Punks think about but its not all of it either.

I think we should talk ideology as there is not just one set ideology when punks are concerned.Punks subscribed to many different kinds.

What I find funny though is that one of the most well know punks, front of The sex pistols, Johnny Rotton, has now sold out and advertises English butter because punk is now commercialised. There is no punk now. Just a watering down sold to youth who have no idea what they are on about because they never lived through it. I don't think there will be a social movement like punk again, which is a shame. This world needs a shake up. The conditions are right for it. Political unrest, financial crisis and social upheval.....

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

Since when do real punks care what people think about the way they dress? lol :troll:

 

[Loopy]

Since when do real punks care what people think about the way they dress? lol :troll:

They don't and that was why the first punks did it.
I don't even know if Dante was supposed to be punk. More like, borrowed elements of it. And let's face it; wherever there are disenfranchised youth, there is going to be rebellion and standing up to whoever is in power.

Dante looks more like a guy you would see in parts of London in this modern day, not the late 60's.

Besides, since when are punks the only group of people allowed to take a stand?:/ Rebellion is not exclusively punk.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

They don't and that was why the first punks did it.
I don't even know if Dante was supposed to be punk. More like, borrowed elements of it. And let's face it; wherever there are disenfranchised youth, there is going to be rebellion and standing up to whoever is in power.

Dante looks more like a guy you would see in parts of London in this modern day, not the late 60's.

Besides, since when are punks the only group of people allowed to take a stand?:/ Rebellion is not exclusively punk.

For sure! I never thought Dante looked very punk either. Anyway Vergil looks like Mr. preptastic and he also took a stand against Mundus.

 

[Loopy]

For sure! I never thought Dante looked very punk either. Anyway Vergil looks like Mr. preptastic and he also took a stand against Mundus.

Very true. Super smart and preppy looking.:lol: Could Vergil be a punk in disguise?:troll:

I wish I'd lived through the punk era. My Dad said it was unlike anything else, and there won't a social movement like that again. Got to agree, especially since punk is now sold out and commericalised.

Besides, I don't think-unless you've lived through the punk era-you can really get a feel for what it was about or know the atomosphere of the time. Punk was something that has to be lived and breathed to really understand the many beliefs, the social climate, the music...I guess the zeitgesit that surrounded punk.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

Very true. Super smart and preppy looking.:lol: Could Vergil be a punk in disguise?:troll:

I wish I'd lived through the punk era. My Dad said it was unlike anything else, and there won't a social movement like that again. Got to agree, especially since punk is now sold out and commericalised.

Besides, I don't think-unless you've lived through the punk era-you can really get a feel for what it was about or know the atomosphere of the time. Punk was something that has to be lived and breathed to really understand the many beliefs, the social climate, the music...I guess the zeitgesit that surrounded punk.

Your dad sounds awesome! I would have loved to live through that era as well but my parents would have probably locked me in a basement somewhere to keep me away or send me to bible camp. -_-

 

[Loopy]

Your dad sounds awesome! I would have loved to live through that era as well but my parents would have probably locked me in a basement somewhere to keep me a way or send me to bible camp. -_-

A punk can escape a puny basement :lol:

I was surpised when he said he was punk. He looks like a regular Dad.:lol: But he said he used to pogo at gigs, go to really grungy and seedy parts of Birmingham and London to watch shows. He actually gave me a box full of memorabilia from The Sex pistols, Ramones and bands I haden't heard of before.One poster was a bit mouse eaten or something:lol:

It just seems like the punk era was such a fascinating time to be alive. It had political and social unrest, rebellion against the hippy movement and against the parents, this bold new fashion taken from S&M themes and bikers, started by a woman in a shop, the same shop that brough together The sex pistols....heh, my Dad gets a little iffy about them. He says they were great, but there were also other notable bands out there that should have got equal attention.Got to say though, if you ever see interviews on youtube of front man Jhonny Rotten, he's a really insightful and intelligent guy. ^_^

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

A punk can escape a puny basement :lol:

I was surpised when he said he was punk. He looks like a regular Dad.:lol: But he said he used to pogo at gigs, go to really grungy and seedy parts of Birmingham and London to watch shows. He actually gave me a box full of memorabilia from The Sex pistols, Ramones and bands I haden't heard of before.One poster was a bit mouse eaten or something:lol:

It just seems like the punk era was such a fascinating time to be alive. It had political and social unrest, rebellion against the hippy movement and against the parents, this bold new fashion taken from S&M themes and bikers, started by a woman in a shop, the same shop that brough together The sex pistols....heh, my Dad gets a little iffy about them. He says they were great, but there were also other notable bands out there that should have got equal attention.Got to say though, if you ever see interviews on youtube of front man Jhonny Rotten, he's a really insightful and intelligent guy. ^_^

Maybe I will look up some interviews by him, I listen to them and have never watched one interview weird :/. I have no doubt that he was probably insightful and intelligent and it's a shame when a lot of people look at punks, goths, metal heads or whatever they automatically assume they're unintelligent by what they wear and listen to.

I love bands like the sex pistols, the clash,The dead Kennedys and minor threat etc. (wait is minor threat even considered punk? Whatever, I'm not even technically sure, I get confused sometimes ha). I mostly listen to a lot psychobilly bands now like the meteors, batmobile, demented are go and mad sin etc. but my music tastes vary and I'll be listening to pop the next moment. I never really fit in anywhere because I'm a mash of different things. My punk side would escape the basement no sweat and my unlucky dork side would fall down a ditch and break my legs on the way to a gig.

ha you got some nice gifts growing up and some pretty cool stories from your dad! as religious as my parent are now, my mom used to be a major hippy lol. I'm not complaining about my parents though, I love them to death even though they used to get on my nerves at times.

 

[Loopy]

Maybe I will look up some interviews by him, I listen to them and have never watched one interview weird :/. I have no doubt that he was probably insightful and intelligent and it's a shame when a lot of people look at punks, goths, metal heads or whatever they automatically assume they're unintelligent by what they wear and listen to.

I love bands like the sex pistols, the clash,The dead Kennedys and minor threat etc. (wait is minor threat even considered punk? Whatever, I'm not even technically sure, I get confused sometimes ha). I mostly listen to a lot psychobilly bands now like the meteors, batmobile, demented are go and mad sin etc. but my music tastes vary and I'll be listening to pop the next moment. I never really fit in anywhere because I'm a mash of different things. My punk side would escape the basement no sweat and my unlucky dork side would fall down a ditch and break my legs on the way to a gig. ha you got some nice gifts growing up and some pretty cool stories from your dad! as religious as my parent are now, my mom used to be a major hippy lol. I'm not complaining about my parents though, I love them to death even though they used to get on my nerves at times.

Yeah, look him up. He's a really interesting guy. And yep, it really is a shame when people judge others based on looks. People just don't want to look beyond the clothes.

I like The Ramones, The clash, Sex pistols, siouxsie sioux, The cure (that's kinda early goth), Bauhaus, Buzzckocks, Cocobat(Japanese) Disclose....you get the idea. I also like the obscure ones that don't get as much credit as say, Sex pistols for example.

My Dad's older sister was a hippy. He said she was a really stereotypical one with flared jeans and rainbow tops. She still has a thing for Paul Mccartney of The Beatles even now:lol:

Yeah, parents can be annoying, but they try their best to relate to their kids.

As far as DmC and punk is concerned,Dante is just Dante. He's not a punk from back then, he's like a guy you would see walking the streets now. Believe me, I have seen a load of guys with his exact hair. My brother has his hair like that much to the dismay of my Mum.
I think with DmC, they didn't set out to create a punk game or a punk styled game. Dante's fashion is what's being worn now, which draws influence from punk, grunge and rock....let's face it, this generation has no fashion identity so it takes from what came before.
And Dante just happens to be rising up against the demons in charge, but that's not punk, anyone can rise up against a regime....and anyone can lead a hedonistic life, drinking, women...that kind of thing.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

Yeah, look him up. He's a really interesting guy. And yep, it really is a shame when people judge others based on looks. People just don't want to look beyond the clothes.

I like The Ramones, The clash, Sex pistols, siouxsie sioux, The cure (that's kinda early goth), Bauhaus.
I love all these bands!

My Dad's older sister was a hippy. He said she was a really stereotypical one with flared jeans and rainbow tops. She still has a thing for Paul Mccartney of The Beatles even now:lol:
Maybe your dads sister is my mom? or they're long lost twins or clones! She doesn't shut up about Paul Mccartney either; I guess from that whole British invasion thing :ermm::blink:... I will say some of my favorite bands and musicians have come from the British, there is something in the water over there I swear!

As far as DmC and punk is concerned,Dante is just Dante. He's not a punk from back then, he's like a guy you would see walking the streets now. Believe me, I have seen a load of guys with his exact hair. My brother has his hair like that much to the dismay of my Mum.
My brother used to have his hair like Dante a couple moths ago, is 32 and thinks green day is punk so yeah I agree with you.

I think with DmC, they didn't set out to create a punk game or a punk styled game. Dante's fashion is what's being worn now, which draws influence from punk, grunge and rock....let's face it, this generation has no fashion identity so it takes from what came before.
I wonder if a new fashion style will ever pop up soon and I'm kind of curious as to what it would be. Nothing seems to be original anymore and is always borrowed from a past generation now.

And Dante just happens to be rising up against the demons in charge, but that's not punk, anyone can rise up against a regime....and anyone can lead a hedonistic life, drinking, women...that kind of thing.
Completely agree. People have been doing this for generations long before punk even came on the scene. If Lucifer is anything like himself in paradise lost then he is the first rebel and if rebellion makes someone punk than he's the first punk.
:troll:

 

[GF9000000Returns]

First the "troll-chan" lies, then the Gamefaq lies, the "sexist" thread, the "against religion" thread. Now what's next, another foolish website trying to make up another lie about Vergil making up with Dante(like a Naruto moment) after they're done fighting?

I have to say this game has been through a lot of chaos.