Two (not problems but) thoughts of DmC

[Judgement]

Hey everyone I have been over all of the DMC forums since the new DmC has been released and this one by far has the most open minded people and people who don't mind saying what they believe about the series. I just wanted to say that before anything.

Okay I have two things that have been annoying me since playing this new DmC game. Now don't get me wrong I have been a hardcore DMC fan since DMC1 and have loved every game even DMC2 including the comics and anime. This new game in my own opinion is also great. I love the combat, even though it may be a little easier than other games and less of it and the story too. It's in an alternate universe so I can't get mad at it being a little different. I'm just glad a new dmc game came out haha.

Okay to my points.

First thought and question: In the end when Vergil came out and said it is now their time(as in Vergil and Dantes) to rule over the human world. Dante got all upset even when Vergil said he would respect their subjects and not abuse them or something of that sort. If I were Dante I would have been like okay the human world does have its problems and maybe we can do something about it and if it doesn't work I can then force Vergil out like he did in the end. I mean apparently Sparda ruled over the human world for a little while and kept the peace maybe that's all Vergil wanted to do too. It was just a thought and I just think Dante jumped the gun a little too fast and I Was curious what others thought about that,

My second point was that this game, unlike the others(mainly dmc3,dmc3 se, and dmc4), I really cannot stand to replay over and over. At least up until say mission 7 or so. I don't know why but it is so annoying to me to redo all of that nonsense. I have beat every single difficulty and am now more than halfway through Hell and Hell mode. DmD was by far my favorite since it finally gave me some challenge, still a bit easy compared to the previous games but whatever. Still to me the other games no matter the level I loved to replay over and over again but this one just annoys me to no extent until you get halfway through the game. The first two times or so were awesome but after than it was just a nuisance.

Like I said before I love this new game and am not here to bash it but am curious to know how poeople feel on what I mentioned

 

[donteXdemon_killahX420]

Donte is a stupid asshole for most of the game, but his decision at the end is one of the few things he was right about.

Vergin is a stupid asshole not fit to be in charge of the class hamster, much less the world. He gets his entire operation of Anonymous ripoffs killed, fully intends to abandon his squirrel jizz witch/method of going to and from Limbo, and during a hostage exchange he murders their own hostage. This could be forgiven as him being ruthless and cold, but it also paints him as a useless dipshit because he does it before Kat, the entire POINT of the exchange, is even halfway across and is still in the line of sight of an entire SWAT team. The only reason she even survives that mission is the entire team graduated from the Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy.

For someone who is supposed to be the brilliant, calculating counterpart to his brutish sibling, Vergin is a goddamn imbecile.

 

[Judgement]

This could be forgiven as him being ruthless and cold, but it also paints him as a useless dipshit because he does it before Kat, the entire POINT of the exchange, is even halfway across and is still in the line of sight of an entire SWAT team. The only reason she even survives that mission is the entire team graduated from the Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy.

For someone who is supposed to be the brilliant, calculating counterpart to his brutish sibling, Vergin is a goddamn imbecile.

I noticed that too! He could have at least waited until Kat was really close to their vehicle to shoot Lilith but he does so when they are at the halfway point and the swat team..I have no idea what the heck happened there really...

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

I actually agreed with Vergil that mankind needed to be ruled over. I mean, people are idiots now in our world; I can only imagine what they would be like after having a brain lobotomy from a soda and then running around like a chicken without a head in complete anarchy. However Vergil did bring up the whole matter in a rather dumb fashion. All he had to say was "look Dante because we've merged limbo with the real world, we are going to have to take on the responsibility of protecting humans as well as help them to rebuild" That's it period, end of story. He did not have to put on a troll face and say "ok time for us to rule and by the way I basically consider them subjects, children, destructive and virtually a lesser race lol" "oh and I'm also going to completely toss Kat aside knowing full well you're crushing on her". If he was a little subtle about it, he naturally would have slid into a leadership position without Dante or Kat even noticing. He instead felt it was necessary to come off like a first class ass.

The hostage scene really didn't bother me too much because I felt he didn't want to give a chance for lilith to possibly escape. If he let Kat get to close to the car then lilith would have been close to the other side as well. He wanted to make sure that hell spawn was dead and that Mundus knew it. Basically he wasn't there for Kat to begin with and I don't feel she was the point of the exchange for him; the whole exchange was Dantes insistence. Kat should have died at the exchange though.

I could probably write my thoughts out better if I took my time but am at work right now sooo yeah.....

 

[Dante Redgrave]

I actually agreed with Vergil that mankind needed to be ruled over. I mean, people are idiots now in our world; I can only imagine what they would be like after having a brain lobotomy from a soda and then running around like a chicken without a head in complete anarchy. However Vergil did bring up the whole matter in a rather dumb fashion. All he had to say was "look Dante because we've merged limbo with the real world, we are going to have to take on the responsibility of protecting humans as well as help them to rebuild" That's it period, end of story. He did not have to put on a troll face and say "ok time for us to rule and by the way I basically consider them subjects, children, destructive and virtually a lesser race lol" "oh and I'm also going to completely toss Kat aside knowing full well you're crushing on her". If he was a little subtle about it, he naturally would have slid into a leadership position without Dante or Kat even noticing. He instead felt it was necessary to come off like a first class ass.

The hostage scene really didn't bother me too much because I felt he didn't want to give a chance for lilith to possibly escape. If he let Kat get to close to the car then lilith would have been close to the other side as well. He wanted to make sure that hell spawn was dead and that Mundus knew it. Basically he wasn't there for Kat to begin with. Kat should have died at the exchange though.

I could probably write my thoughts out better if I took my time but am at work right now sooo yeah.....

THIS. EXACTLY what I imagine was the intent with Vergil's actions. he IS an arrgant ass, which is exactly why he assumed Dante would just go along with him. remember "I'm smarter", when they bantered in the Vault. Just because he's teh older twin, vergil probably assumes that Dante would fall in line, forgetting in his pride that...Dante's exemplified by the name of his sword; Rebellion. That is the CORE of Dante's person; he rebels against oppresion, even his own blood.

 

[Chancey289]

I actually agreed with Vergil that mankind needed to be ruled over. I mean, people are idiots now in our world; I can only imagine what they would be like after having a brain lobotomy from a soda and then running around like a chicken without a head in complete anarchy. However Vergil did bring up the whole matter in a rather dumb fashion. All he had to say was "look Dante because we've merged limbo with the real world, we are going to have to take on the responsibility of protecting humans as well as help them to rebuild" That's it period, end of story. He did not have to put on a troll face and say "ok time for us to rule and by the way I basically consider them subjects, children, destructive and virtually a lesser race lol" "oh and I'm also going to completely toss Kat aside knowing full well you're crushing on her". If he was a little subtle about it, he naturally would have slid into a leadership position without Dante or Kat even noticing. He instead felt it was necessary to come off like a first class ass.

The hostage scene really didn't bother me too much because I felt he didn't want to give a chance for lilith to possibly escape. If he let Kat get to close to the car then lilith would have been close to the other side as well. He wanted to make sure that hell spawn was dead and that Mundus knew it. Basically he wasn't there for Kat to begin with and I don't feel she was the point of the exchange for him; the whole exchange was Dantes insistence. Kat should have died at the exchange though.

I could probably write my thoughts out better if I took my time but am at work right now sooo yeah.....

One thing has always been evident about Vergil, and that's how he has a superiority complex. He truly believes he's better than everyone else because he's different. I would have shot Lillith myself given the chance because of what she is. She's going to give birth to the next ruler of the the world, why wouldn't you kill her? Vergil knows he needs to get rid of all obstacles in his way to take the throne as demon king. Dante was shocked because he pulled a move like that where Kat could have still been hurt. Kat is expendable as far as Vergil is concerned. When he said the path was free to rule at the end of the game Dante didn't buy his bs speech about not being like Mundus. As far as Dante's concerned, Vergil is not to be entrusted with power because he does believe himself to be superior to his "subjects" if he would rule. That doesn't sound like a good ruler.

 

[berto]

First thought and question: In the end when Vergil came out and said it is now their time(as in Vergil and Dantes) to rule over the human world. Dante got all upset even when Vergil said he would respect their subjects and not abuse them or something of that sort. If I were Dante I would have been like okay the human world does have its problems and maybe we can do something about it and if it doesn't work I can then force Vergil out like he did in the end. I mean apparently Sparda ruled over the human world for a little while and kept the peace maybe that's all Vergil wanted to do too. It was just a thought and I just think Dante jumped the gun a little too fast and I Was curious what others thought about that

I think it was BS that Dante did that and it felt forced. He should've demanded answers like what will you do about world hunger, how will you tackle the economy, how will you resolve national conflicts and the like 'cause I get the feeling that Vergil had planed for all that. Second, Dante should've been more open to rule with Vergil, specially since if history has shown us anything is that when there isn't a ruler the ones to take power are those with the biggest gun and they tend to not be the good guys. Add to that that Vergil isn't exactly showing alot of respect for humans and you'd think that, if he'd agree to rule with Vergil, that he would constanly look over his shoulder, like a Jimminy Cricket, and keep him grounded; if Vergil will listen to anyone it'd be Dante.

Dante, however, seemed more eager to be angry than to try to talk his brother into reason. Just the same, I kept getting the impression that Dante didn't care for Vergil as much as Vergil cared for Dante.

 

[Judgement]

I think it was BS that Dante did that and it felt forced. He should've demanded answers like what will you do about world hunger, how will you tackle the economy, how will you resolve national conflicts and the like 'cause I get the feeling that Vergil had planed for all that. Second, Dante should've been more open to rule with Vergil, specially since if history has shown us anything is that when there isn't a ruler the ones to take power are those with the biggest gun and they tend to not be the good guys. Add to that that Vergil isn't exactly showing alot of respect for humans and you'd think that, if he'd agree to rule with Vergil, that he would constanly look over his shoulder, like a Jimminy Cricket, and keep him grounded; if Vergil will listen to anyone it'd be Dante.

Dante, however, seemed more eager to be angry than to try to talk his brother into reason. Just the same, I kept getting the impression that Dante didn't care for Vergil as much as Vergil cared for Dante.

That is exactly what I was thinking. Dante should have at least looked at what was going on and realized someone or something as going to end up ruling and it might as well be them. As you said he could keep Vergil in check and if worst came to worst he could just pwn Vergil like he did at the end of the game anyways.

I did mention how Sparda ruled over the human world for many years if not centuries too and his rule wasn't so much of ruling as just watching over. It may be a different universe but even so it still shows that if the two brothers worked together without too much problem good could come out of it. Maybe it was meant that the brothers were opposites so that they could come together on equal ground on some things and if need be the righteous would prevail, such as Dante did anyways. I was also curious at the end of the game Dante said the human world is under his protection now...isn't that exactly what they were going to do anyways in some sort?

 

[Dante Redgrave]

That is exactly what I was thinking. Dante should have at least looked at what was going on and realized someone or something as going to end up ruling and it might as well be them. As you said he could keep Vergil in check and if worst came to worst he could just pwn Vergil like he did at the end of the game anyways.

I did mention how Sparda ruled over the human world for many years if not centuries too and his rule wasn't so much of ruling as just watching over. It may be a different universe but even so it still shows that if the two brothers worked together without too much problem good could come out of it. Maybe it was meant that the brothers were opposites so that they could come together on equal ground on some things and if need be the righteous would prevail, such as Dante did anyways. I was also curious at the end of the game Dante said the human world is under his protection now...isn't that exactly what they were going to do anyways in some sort?

Dante more comes off as seeing humans as equals and protecting them from the shadows, not reigning over them as kings like Vergil implied. if they become a threat to themselves mroe than the demons, he's step in to give guidence or at least elmininate the threat to set the right example, but not lord them like a king, similar to what he does in DMC Classic's universe

 

[DragonMaster2010]

If I may, I can probably shed some light on your issue with Vergil's plan and why it needed to be stopped.

Come on, we all know Vergil was gonna be another Mundus. Take into account all that Vergil has done to the end.

-He was more then able to let Kat die in the order's chamber.
-He was more then able to let Kat be kept by Mundus.
-He shot Lilith in cold blood in order to get Mundus ****ed while preventing the Antichrist
-His whole hacking thoughts and how he felt "in control" of everything.

Dante knew there was something up with Vergil and knew that Vergil wasn't all that trust worthy, but then again, wouldn't you try to find the good in the ONLY family you have in this world? I doubt anyone would know that situation where everyone in your family is dead, and you only had one left. You'd not want it to come to the point where you'd have to kill him in cold blood.

Anyway, all those events were obviously things that were dangerous for the controller of the world to be able to do. He was able to not care if Kat dies which means if he would let one human dies, how will he care for millions upon millions of other humans? He shot Lilith and her baby which means he had no shame in killing those that would gain him more success. Where would that go then? government officials? prime ministers? The president? His hacking thoughts of controlling everything. Come on, that's obviously the biggest step in being an evil dictator for him.
"All codes I enter will be as planned, and if one file is unresponsive, they will be forced to reboot...or be deleted."

Vergil would be just like Mundus. Just like Phinias said, "And once Mundus is destroyed, who will take his place?"

 

[BLACKSWIPE]

Personally I think Dante was stupid to deny Vergil his place as ruler. When Dante refused to rule alongside Vergil, he didn't go all rage and try to kill him. He simply said to stand back and let him rule. I personally believe that Vergil could have made the world a better place, its not like he was just another Mundus. I got a protective vibe from Vergil, like he honestly wanted to help.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

If I may, I can probably shed some light on your issue with Vergil's plan and why it needed to be stopped.

Come on, we all know Vergil was gonna be another Mundus. Take into account all that Vergil has done to the end.

-He was more then able to let Kat die in the order's chamber.
-He was more then able to let Kat be kept by Mundus.
-He shot Lilith in cold blood in order to get Mundus ****ed while preventing the Antichrist
-His whole hacking thoughts and how he felt "in control" of everything.

Dante knew there was something up with Vergil and knew that Vergil wasn't all that trust worthy, but then again, wouldn't you try to find the good in the ONLY family you have in this world? I doubt anyone would know that situation where everyone in your family is dead, and you only had one left. You'd not want it to come to the point where you'd have to kill him in cold blood.

Anyway, all those events were obviously things that were dangerous for the controller of the world to be able to do. He was able to not care if Kat dies which means if he would let one human dies, how will he care for millions upon millions of other humans? He shot Lilith and her baby which means he had no shame in killing those that would gain him more success. Where would that go then? government officials? prime ministers? The president? His hacking thoughts of controlling everything. Come on, that's obviously the biggest step in being an evil dictator for him.
"All codes I enter will be as planned, and if one file is unresponsive, they will be forced to reboot...or be deleted."

Vergil would be just like Mundus. Just like Phinias said, "And once Mundus is destroyed, who will take his place?"

Maybe I'm just a cold blooded person but in all honestly, I don't think Vergil being able to let kat die would make him another Mundus, he could just be a "for the greater good type" and that is needed sometimes. I think there are times you need to be a little hardened in order to rule nation etc. His whole quote earlier about Dante "risking mankind for a girl" did have a bit of truth to it for me and it made me think that Dante was being a little selfish; is he the type to let millions die if a pretty girl comes along?. If Vergil was able to protect the world along with Dante and actually help rebuild and take care of the economy or whatever then I really don't see the problem in letting him rule and I don't necessarily think it would make him an evil dictator. That's not to say he wouldn't turn into one, because it's just speculation on my part my opinion and all that jazz.

I at least think the last scene could have been handled a little better.

I hope you don't think I'm attacking you or anything because I disagree. I just like getting my thoughts out sometimes so it's nothing personal.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Maybe I'm just a cold blooded person but in all honestly, I don't think Vergil being able to let kat die would make him another Mundus, he could just be a "for the greater good type" and that is needed sometimes. I think there are times you need to be a little hardened in order to rule nation etc. His whole quote earlier about Dante "risking mankind for a girl" did have a bit of truth to it for me and it made me think that Dante was a little selfish; is he the type to let millions die if a pretty girl comes along?. If Vergil was able to protect the world along with Dante and actually help rebuild and take care of the economy or whatever then I really don't see the problem in letting him rule and I don't necessarily think it would make him an evil dictator. That's not to say he wouldn't turn into one, because it's just speculation on my part my opinion and all that jazz.

I hope you don't think I'm attacking you or anything because I disagree. I just like getting my thoughts out sometimes so it's nothing personal.

No, It's alright.

I just think Vergil doesn't seem like the type to be the nice guy all the time. He's got some demons in him and he's obviously planning more then just being the ruler of mankind. A king could only rule so long before getting bored of having everything.

 

[Onecrazymonkey1]

No, It's alright.

I just think Vergil doesn't seem like the type to be the nice guy all the time. He's got some demons in him and he's obviously planning more then just being the ruler of mankind. A king could only rule so long before getting bored of having everything.

Yeah I agree with you there. Even if Vergil did start out with pure intentions I don't think it would last long, sometimes I just like playing the devils advocate.....and I'm a biased hopeless Vergil fangirl ha

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

Donte is a stupid asshole for most of the game, but his decision at the end is one of the few things he was right about.

Vergin is a stupid asshole not fit to be in charge of the class hamster, much less the world. He gets his entire operation of Anonymous ripoffs killed, fully intends to abandon his squirrel jizz witch/method of going to and from Limbo, and during a hostage exchange he murders their own hostage. This could be forgiven as him being ruthless and cold, but it also paints him as a useless dipshit because he does it before Kat, the entire POINT of the exchange, is even halfway across and is still in the line of sight of an entire SWAT team. The only reason she even survives that mission is the entire team graduated from the Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy.

For someone who is supposed to be the brilliant, calculating counterpart to his brutish sibling, Vergin is a goddamn imbecile.

wow, so well thought out, leave now asshole

 

[TWOxACROSS]

First thought and question: In the end when Vergil came out and said it is now their time(as in Vergil and Dantes) to rule over the human world. Dante got all upset even when Vergil said he would respect their subjects and not abuse them or something of that sort. If I were Dante I would have been like okay the human world does have its problems and maybe we can do something about it and if it doesn't work I can then force Vergil out like he did in the end. I mean apparently Sparda ruled over the human world for a little while and kept the peace maybe that's all Vergil wanted to do too. It was just a thought and I just think Dante jumped the gun a little too fast and I Was curious what others thought about that.

btmudd28 put it together really well thought-out explanation that fits in line pretty well with what happened. I'd suggest giving it a read. It puts names to concepts everyone knows about, but never really knows where they came from (Hobbes' and Locke's thoughts on freedom). The best way that I can explain it is that Dante believes in everyone having naturally God-given freedom. Eva whispers these thoughts to him, that he has the freedom to choose his own destiny, and that sorta becomes a vehicle for why he opposes Vergil. Vergil may have had the best of intentions, but Dante was also worried about Phineas' words of "Who will take Mundus' place when he's gone?" Dante thought he was fighting to free the humans from suffering and win them their freedom, but learning of Vergil's intentions, he couldn't have his brother (or anyone) taking away the freedom he had just fought to give humanity.

People can claim that Vergil had the best idea, and Dante was just allowing anarchy to reign, but we forget that while Limbo City is a bit decimated, the rest of the world, with all its governments, were still very much intact. Demons are on the loose in the human world now, but Limbo City just looks like a disaster zone. The rest of the world can surely persevere.

I do have to say though that in DmC Sparda did not rule over the human world, he's been banished since Dante and Vergil were young.


As for your other point...that's really just a personal thing. Can't really help you with that >.<

Donte is a stupid asshole for most of the game, but his decision at the end is one of the few things he was right about.

Vergin is a stupid asshole not fit to be in charge of the class hamster, much less the world. He gets his entire operation of Anonymous ripoffs killed, fully intends to abandon his squirrel jizz witch/method of going to and from Limbo, and during a hostage exchange he murders their own hostage. This could be forgiven as him being ruthless and cold, but it also paints him as a useless dipshit because he does it before Kat, the entire POINT of the exchange, is even halfway across and is still in the line of sight of an entire SWAT team. The only reason she even survives that mission is the entire team graduated from the Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy.

For someone who is supposed to be the brilliant, calculating counterpart to his brutish sibling, Vergin is a goddamn imbecile.

You're sorta ignoring the whole fact that Vergil didn't give two sh*ts about the people working for him. They were all means to an end. When Vergil talks of his true intentions, and how little he thinks of humanity, all of his other actions look a lot different...

- Vergil let the rest of The Order die because they outlived their usefulness, and he cared more about making sure the already fairly secure information the humans gathered was safe over the safety of the humans who gathered it
- He's willing to abandon Kat at the hideout for similar reasons: he didn't want to risk his life for her
- Vergil was against the hostage exchange, and wanted to kill Lilith instead, but he was using Dante so he had to concede to his brother's wish. Then during the exchange, he takes the opportunity to kill Lilith with little regard to Kat because, again, Vergil cares little for her

...this all does make him ruthless and cold, because he just thinks humanity is frail and weak, and only a few select of it are passingly useful to his greater goal. Sooooo...yeah...

 

[donteXdemon_killahX420]

That's exactly why I said that Donte was right to oppose him? I wasn't ignoring **** about Vergin's intentions, I was pointing out why those qualities would make him a terrible leader on top of his tendency to make Leeroy Jenkins-esque tactical ****ups

 

[TWOxACROSS]

That's exactly why I said that Donte was right to oppose him? I wasn't ignoring **** about Vergin's intentions, I was pointing out why those qualities would make him a terrible leader on top of his tendency to make Leeroy Jenkins-esque tactical ****ups

I'm talking about those "Leeroy Jenkins-esque tactical ****ups." Those weren't ****ups. It was him not wasting time and risking his life for the humans beyond what was necessary. He's perfectly capable of defending the humans, just as Dante is, but instead tries to remain hidden or out of the spotlight as long as possible, letting others do everything for him. He does everything for his own gain. He lets The Order die because he values their work over their lives. He didn't put Kat in danger by killing Lilith, because to him Kat wasn't a factor past making sure Dante would continue doing what he needed him to do. He didn't kill their hostage during a hostage exchange because he hadn't intended to let Lilith live in the first place.

The fact that Vergil cares little for humanity beyond what they can do for him, also shows that his actions aren't based around sacrifices for the greater good, but actual completely honest sacrifices he's willing to make just to meet his own goals. Dante is against Vergil's idea of ruling over the humans on both the fundamental level of where freedom lies, but also because he's begun to see how Vergil thinks of humanity, insofar that he'd instantly refer to them as "subjects." The fact that he even calls Kat "useful" when she was one of the main reasons they were able to defeat Mundus shows how he feels about them. Hell, if she thinks Kat was juste "useful," think of how he feels about the rest of humanity :/

 

[crush]

If I may, I can probably shed some light on your issue with Vergil's plan and why it needed to be stopped.

Come on, we all know Vergil was gonna be another Mundus. Take into account all that Vergil has done to the end.

-He was more then able to let Kat die in the order's chamber.
-He was more then able to let Kat be kept by Mundus.
-He shot Lilith in cold blood in order to get Mundus ****ed while preventing the Antichrist
-His whole hacking thoughts and how he felt "in control" of everything.

The antics of Vergil is quite wierd as though he wanted to leave Kat at "that" stage of point.
Not like though if she is now "Useless" but rather "Dangerous". Because He looks eager to leave her.
Maybe letting her live wasn't in Vergil's main plan.

 

[WorkenOnMaLeft]

Donte is a stupid asshole for most of the game, but his decision at the end is one of the few things he was right about.

Vergin is a stupid asshole not fit to be in charge of the class hamster, much less the world. He gets his entire operation of Anonymous ripoffs killed, fully intends to abandon his squirrel jizz witch/method of going to and from Limbo, and during a hostage exchange he murders their own hostage. This could be forgiven as him being ruthless and cold, but it also paints him as a useless dipshit because he does it before Kat, the entire POINT of the exchange, is even halfway across and is still in the line of sight of an entire SWAT team. The only reason she even survives that mission is the entire team graduated from the Stormtrooper Markmanship Academy.

For someone who is supposed to be the brilliant, calculating counterpart to his brutish sibling, Vergin is a goddamn imbecile.

well for one Vergil can get to Limbo via yamatos portals and he taught Kat all her spells or whatever. Also yea he could have waited for Katt to get safely accross but i guess that he didnt really care about her. And in the "stormtroopers" (lol) defense: Dante was shot a few times you know.