There is Always A Catch

[berto]

That game was a failure.

I know DMC fans were saying it was a cheap rip off and it was. Nothing original at all. Because they didn't use originality they forced us to look at this 3 dollar stripper.

Fact.

Sorry, man, but you are wrong. I rarely say that, everything we say is based on opinions and personal views so I rarely tell someone that they are flat out wrong but in this case I agree with mesiour Chocolat.

Do you have evidence that the game was a falire? Please provide it.

In the mean time I presset the following for your consideration:


Bayonetta (PS3):
North America: 0.39m 37.2%
+ Europe: 0.31m 29.5%
+ Japan: 0.21m 20.3%
+ Rest of the World: 0.14m 13.0%
= Global 1.05m
SOURCE

Bayonetta (360)
North America: 0.46m 55.4%
+ Europe: 0.21m 24.8%
+ Japan: 0.09m 10.7%
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m 9.0%
= Global 0.84m
SOURCE

TOTAL: 1.88 Millon units.

That is a most succesful title specially in terms of a new IP and even more so when considering that the game has a very specific target audience.


Please take a look at this list:
1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
2. Soulcalibur (1999)
3. Vagrant Story (2000)
4. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003)
5. Nintendogs (2005)
6. Final Fantasy XII (2006)
7. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008)
8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008)
9. 428 (2008)
10. Dragon Quest IX (2009)
11. Monster Hunter Tri (2009)

All these games have one thing in common: they are the only eleven games to recive a perfect score by Japanese published magazine Famitsu. In 2009 Bayonetta joined the twelve place.
SOURCE


Not only famitsu but most major video game journalism who've reviewed the game have given it high preise.


Review Scores:

Publishing / PS3 / 360
1UP.com / A- /A
Eurogamer / -- / 9 out of 10
Famitsu / 38 out of 40 / 40 out of 40
G4 / ★★★★☆ / ★★★★☆
GameInformer / 9.0 out of 10.0 / 9.0 out of 10.0
GamePro / -- /

GameRadar / 10 out of 10 / 10 out of 10
GameZone / 8.5 out of 10 / 8.5 out of 10
IGN / 8.2 out of 10 / 9.5 out of 10 (EUR 9.6)
SOURCE


Facts.


Now, as for my personal opinion:

Bayonetta is by no means a rip off of anything but the directors previous works.

Areal combat was already part of Capcom before DMC2, where it was introduced to the franchise. Before DMC2 Viewtiful Joe (Kamiya's project after DMC) used a rather floaty air combat system much more similar to Bayonetta's than any of the games in DMC. Okami also used airial combat and many powers that Bayonetta inherited.

Bayonetta plays like DMC because Bayonetta inherited alot of mechanics from DMC; Infact a lot of Bayonetta was meant to go to DMC2 were it to be developed by the original staff. However Bayonetta isn't all DMC, just part. The rest of it is Okami, Viewtiful Joe and all her.

I'll say this as well. There is nothing in DMC that you can't do in Bayonetta, but there are alot of things in Bayonetta that you can't do in DMC. Alot.

 

[chocolateghost79]

Sorry, man, but you are wrong. I rarely say that, everything we say is based on opinions and personal views so I rarely tell someone that they are flat out wrong but in this case I agree with mesiour Chocolat.

Do you have evidence that the game was a falire? Please provide it.

In the mean time I presset the following for your consideration:


Bayonetta (PS3):
North America: 0.39m 37.2%
+ Europe: 0.31m 29.5%
+ Japan: 0.21m 20.3%
+ Rest of the World: 0.14m 13.0%
= Global 1.05m
SOURCE

Bayonetta (360)
North America: 0.46m 55.4%
+ Europe: 0.21m 24.8%
+ Japan: 0.09m 10.7%
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m 9.0%
= Global 0.84m
SOURCE

TOTAL: 1.88 Millon units.

That is a most succesful title specially in terms of a new IP and even more so when considering that the game has a very specific target audience.



Please take a look at this list:
1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
2. Soulcalibur (1999)
3. Vagrant Story (2000)
4. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003)
5. Nintendogs (2005)
6. Final Fantasy XII (2006)
7. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008)
8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008)
9. 428 (2008)
10. Dragon Quest IX (2009)
11. Monster Hunter Tri (2009)

All these games have one thing in common: they are the only eleven games to recive a perfect score by Japanese published magazine Famitsu. In 2009 Bayonetta joined the twelve place.
SOURCE


Not only famitsu but most major video game journalism who've reviewed the game have given it high preise.


Review Scores:
PS3 360
1UP.com A- A
Eurogamer -- 9 out of 10
Famitsu 38 out of 40 40 out of 40
G4 ★★★★☆ ★★★★☆
GameInformer 9.0 out of 10.0 9.0 out of 10.0
GamePro --

GameRadar 10 out of 10 10 out of 10
GameZone 8.5 out of 10 8.5 out of 10
IGN 8.2 out of 10 9.5 out of 10 (EUR 9.6)
SOURCE


Facts.


Now, as for my personal opinion:

Bayonetta is by no means a rip off of anything but the directors previous works.

Areal combat was already part of Capcom before DMC2, where it was introduced to the franchise. Before DMC2 Viewtiful Joe (Kamiya's project after DMC) used a rather floaty air combat system much more similar to Bayonetta's than any of the games in DMC. Okami also used airial combat and many powers that Bayonetta inherited.

Bayonetta plays like DMC because Bayonetta inherited alot of mechanics from DMC; Infact a lot of Bayonetta was meant to go to DMC2 were it to be developed by the original staff. However Bayonetta isn't all DMC, just part. The rest of it is Okami, Viewtiful Joe and all her.

All say this as well. There is nothing in DMC that you can't do in Bayonetta, but there are alot of things in Bayonetta that you can't do in DMC. Alot.

Bravo.

 

[Suzaku18XD]

Sorry, man, but you are wrong. I rarely say that, everything we say is based on opinions and personal views so I rarely tell someone that they are flat out wrong but in this case I agree with mesiour Chocolat.

Do you have evidence that the game was a falire? Please provide it.

In the mean time I presset the following for your consideration:


Bayonetta (PS3):
North America: 0.39m 37.2%
+ Europe: 0.31m 29.5%
+ Japan: 0.21m 20.3%
+ Rest of the World: 0.14m 13.0%
= Global 1.05m
SOURCE

Bayonetta (360)
North America: 0.46m 55.4%
+ Europe: 0.21m 24.8%
+ Japan: 0.09m 10.7%
+ Rest of the World: 0.08m 9.0%
= Global 0.84m
SOURCE

TOTAL: 1.88 Millon units.

That is a most succesful title specially in terms of a new IP and even more so when considering that the game has a very specific target audience.



Please take a look at this list:
1. The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time (1998)
2. Soulcalibur (1999)
3. Vagrant Story (2000)
4. The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker (2003)
5. Nintendogs (2005)
6. Final Fantasy XII (2006)
7. Super Smash Bros. Brawl (2008)
8. Metal Gear Solid 4: Guns of the Patriots (2008)
9. 428 (2008)
10. Dragon Quest IX (2009)
11. Monster Hunter Tri (2009)

All these games have one thing in common: they are the only eleven games to recive a perfect score by Japanese published magazine Famitsu. In 2009 Bayonetta joined the twelve place.
SOURCE


Not only famitsu but most major video game journalism who've reviewed the game have given it high preise.


Review Scores:
PS3 360
1UP.com A- A
Eurogamer -- 9 out of 10
Famitsu 38 out of 40 40 out of 40
G4 ★★★★☆ ★★★★☆
GameInformer 9.0 out of 10.0 9.0 out of 10.0
GamePro --

GameRadar 10 out of 10 10 out of 10
GameZone 8.5 out of 10 8.5 out of 10
IGN 8.2 out of 10 9.5 out of 10 (EUR 9.6)
SOURCE


Facts.


Now, as for my personal opinion:

Bayonetta is by no means a rip off of anything but the directors previous works.

Areal combat was already part of Capcom before DMC2, where it was introduced to the franchise. Before DMC2 Viewtiful Joe (Kamiya's project after DMC) used a rather floaty air combat system much more similar to Bayonetta's than any of the games in DMC. Okami also used airial combat and many powers that Bayonetta inherited.

Bayonetta plays like DMC because Bayonetta inherited alot of mechanics from DMC; Infact a lot of Bayonetta was meant to go to DMC2 were it to be developed by the original staff. However Bayonetta isn't all DMC, just part. The rest of it is Okami, Viewtiful Joe and all her.

All say this as well. There is nothing in DMC that you can't do in Bayonetta, but there are alot of things in Bayonetta that you can't do in DMC. Alot.

:blink: MOTHER OF GOD!!! Its about time. :w00t:

 

[berto]

Bayonetta 2 was dropped from Sega and SAVED by Nintendo.


Now everyone has to buy a Wii U because of the fact that Bayonetta failed.

Fact.

Sorry but your research does not mean anything compared to "expectations".

Also, just FYI Gears of War sold over three million units....after 3 WEEKS.

You trow that around too loosly. That is not fact, that is unsoported opinion.

Nintendo picked up Bayonetta 2 and if they hadn't the game would't exist, that is true, but do you have proof that Sega drop it because it was a falure as opposed to Sega dropping because they hadn't the money? And if the game is such a failure why would Nintendo publish it? They aren't idiots, why pick up a sure lose?

Baynetta was a financia success, Bayonetta was also a critical success. These are the facts, but to you it was a failure because 'expectations' make it so? What does that even mean? So far all I've seen is your opinion of a game you dislike and the only real fact you've provided is unrelated. GoW sold 1 mill in 3 week, good for them, it's not hard to see why, those types of games are always garanteed to sell, games like Bayonetta and Devil May Cry do not, most of them fall into obscurity. How does anothe games success prove this one's falure? Because it's more successful? Then DMC is also a failure because it has never sold that well and it might never, ether.

 

[berto]

What are you saying? Bayonetta was an extreme failure. Which is why Sega didn't gamble with a sequel. Now Nintendo's trying to sell the Wii U and they believe Bayonetta 2 would sell the system by saving it. Until the fans started sharing their frustration with it's exclusivity.

Whoa... I guess that means that DMC is one of the biggest flops ever... None of the titles in the franchise has ever sold as well as any of those games you listed, even worse DmC is expected to sell as well as Bayonetta (2 million) by Capcom's calculations. Why did they even make any more of DMC? Didn't they learn their leasons? With those numbers every DMC has been an

extreme failure

and DmC will be no different!! What tha hell is wrong with Capcom!? They didn't just make one extreme failure, they made five!!

Come off it, you aren't selling your side well. I already told you, just because another title is more succesful doesn't mean the other is a falure.

At one million copies sold that pretty much qualifies your title as a success. That and you haven't told me exactly what about Bayonetta is in anyway inferior to DMC.

 

[Nelo_Vergil]

Devil May Cry has made it's own legs to stand on Bayonetta has not.

Fact.

When DMC 1-3 came out they were for Playstation 2 a less powerful console than the PS3, it sold wonderfully. When the PS3's DMC released it did "good" and what happened after it did "good"? REBOOT!

Capcom can back their product if it fails; Platinum Games can't. That's the difference. That's why Bayonetta fails extremely.

Besides, you're not arguing with me anymore you're just flailing about angrily. I won't stand for it, I'll just sit down and relax with my facts and let you go on about your business. Kay?

actually the dmc series on ps2 did not sell "wonderfully" amd dmc4 sold bad when you consider it was multi-platform,ps3 360 pc, while i won't call the series a failure it hasn't lived up to it's potential,in terms of sells. Now bayonetta may not be my cup of tea but even i admit it sold great for a new ip and critics loved it but fell below what sega ecpected,maybe who knows?, but at least nintendo is giving it a shot whixh if you didn't know is pretty damn big.

 

[berto]

Devil May Cry has made it's own legs to stand on Bayonetta has not.

Fact.

When DMC 1-3 came out they were for Playstation 2 a less powerful console than the PS3, it sold wonderfully. When the PS3's DMC released it did "good" and what happened after it did "good"? REBOOT!

Capcom can back their product if it fails; Platinum Games can't. That's the difference. That's why Bayonetta fails extremely.

Besides, you're not arguing with me anymore you're just flailing about angrily. I won't stand for it, I'll just sit down and relax with my facts and let you go on about your business. Kay?

Ok. I'm done.

You say Fact but you actually present opinions. All you've said were a bunch nagging comments and brought up unrelated sales figues. This isn't a discusion, which is what I'd hope for, this is just you over reaching and complaining and tearing down a title you don't like with insufficient material. I was hoping for a resanable discution but you've said nothing that is fact and what little was fact was taken out of context or was flat out completly unrelated.

So what if Capcom can 'back their failures?' Good for them, they got maney, doesn't make their product better in any way, it just means that they can screw up without loosing as much. In no way is that related to how succesful Bayonetta was.

And where did it fail, exactly? Sales? Nope. Critical and public reception? Nope. Gameplay? Nope. Gee, could it be that it's just you? No, that can't be, you've pressented strong and sturdy evidence to back up your 'facts' therefore it can't just be your opinoin and you just saying fact afterwards. Oh, wait.

Even now people are defending the PS3 version and that's the only one that is considered a falire. Bayonetta on the PS3 score higher than any DMC title ever has and that's the defective one. Fact! That is a fact, I got evidence to back that up. I've read everything you called a fact and it nothing but opinions, Fact.

You don't like it, fine, but don't sit there like a child and put false labels on it just because you don't like it. I don't like DmC but I cestainly don't go around making false acusations about it's quality just because I don't like it, I give it the credit it's earned and Bayonetta has earned more credit than that.

What did I say before about expectations berto?

Heh, facts are facts.

And where are yours?

Someone else had to answer that for you, how unimpressive.

 

[Angel]

Guys...you know what I'm going to say, so I won't repeat myself - I'll just throw in an extra "please" for good measure, ok?

Carry on.

 

[berto]

You all can carry on. I'm done.

 

[TheDarkSlayer]

I skimmed over it. Referred to my previous facts. Found they all are still useable. Laughed.

Alright berto, I'll let you live where you wanna live and I'll live in reality.

If I were you, I would've stopped at "I'm Done".

Fact.

I read this whole thread just now and another thread you've opened recently, and I ought to say:

You are the most annoying person ever in this community.

Fact.

And I could've been much more brutal than that. Also, unlike your so called "facts", I have proof to back mine up.

 

[berto]

I read this whole thread just now and another thread you've opened recently, and I ought to say:

You are the most annoying person ever in this community.

Fact.

And I could've been much more brutal than that. Also, unlike your so called "facts", I have proof to back mine up.

Let it go, man. These thing speak for themselves.

 

[DmcJACKPOT]

idk, but some of the imperfection maybe the reason that make the game challenging

 

[berto]

idk, but some of the imperfection maybe the reason that make the game challenging

Well, no, not exactly.

Let me see if I can tell you the why's.

Devil May Cry-Poor camera and something about the nuisances of the Yellow Orb system
The camera system was inherited from the RE series, what, with the game starting out as RE4, so 3rd person camera systems were rather primitive by todays's standards.

The yellow orbs were also part of how games worked back then, the game is 12 years old.

Any game that was 12 years old back 2001 wouldn't hold up to the standards of the time in many areas, ether.


Devil May Cry 2-almost everything.....but in DMC2's case there was one catch that kept it from being a bad game.... more acrobatic freedom and pretty large terrain and more platforming freedom compared to the other DMC games.
Rush job. Great ideas, very poor execution.

Devil May Cry 3-Limited weapons to use and even 1 Style per mission it took them another game for them to realize that the d-pad was being wasted as another menu button.
PS2 limitations. you can't really expect a PS2 game to have the capacities of a PS3. You wouldn't expect DMC3 to run on a PS1, you can't expect the PS2 to do what the PS3 can.

Devil May Cry 4-Nero & Dante (not them but how Capcom chose to handle the story mode, they couldn't have give them both separating story modes like DMC2) and somewhat Dante's poor choice of weapons (I'll get into that later).
DMC4 suffered from Capcom's need to make money. They wanted more appeal, larger audience, bigger sales figueres. The list of reasons for rebooting the franchise are exactly the same reasons they had for going in the direction they did with DMC4.