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The death of Osama bin Laden: How the U.S. got him

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
I don't mean to sound overly patriotic, but am I the only one with faith in the US? We've the "biggest baddest military on the face of the planet" and while attacks can (and have :() happened the US has done a lot since then and I think some credit needs to be given to the amazing men and women of our military (as well as all of NATO while we're at it ^^) for all the progress they've made over in the Middle East. I don't think the death of anyone is worth celebrating, but I do think the strength and bravery of the men and women fighting over there is.

So long winded "GO AMERICA (just not the gov)!!!!" rant made short, I've faith in our military. I'm sure the Olympics and everything else will be fine.
 
Well IDK if his death is a truth or lie, but ppl in my country are celebrating it >.> since we are neighbour with Pakistan <.< he brought chaos to Persia
and Meg, what kinda progress did US made over middle east?, it was unsafe enough but after US came here, the only thing I can see is just horror and more unsafety for every country in ME
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I don't mean to sound overly patriotic, but am I the only one with faith in the US? We've the "biggest baddest military on the face of the planet" and while attacks can (and have :() happened the US has done a lot since then and I think some credit needs to be given to the amazing men and women of our military (as well as all of NATO while we're at it ^^) for all the progress they've made over in the Middle East. I don't think the death of anyone is worth celebrating, but I do think the strength and bravery of the men and women fighting over there is.

So long winded "GO AMERICA (just not the gov)!!!!" rant made short, I've faith in our military. I'm sure the Olympics and everything else will be fine.

P.S. China has a bigger military. ;)

I can't see the military being able to stop terrorism, full-stop, ever. You can't fight an ideology like this with fire, only with education and a better foreign policy. And I'm not entirely sure what 'progress' has been made in the Middle East? If you're referring to Iraq, we invaded on the pretext of WMDs that weren't there, found Saddam cowering in a hole and fed him to his own people, but the average Iraqi's situation nor safety hasn't improved in reality a whole lot. In Afghanistan we are fighting a war that doesn't seem winnable because the governments, police and to some extent the people are not entirely on our side, nor anti-Taliban. How can that be won? We kill Bin Laden up the road and down the road 300+ Taliban commanders dig their way out of an Afghan prison just a couple of weeks before for the third time in just a few years, obviously with help from the prison guards. Not to belittle the efforts of our soldiers - it's our governments I have problems with, sending them off to do things evidently not thought out properly.

Personally I see the military of either of our countries as professionals, there to do a job, and thank God they do. I respect their willingness to put their lives on the line for others, it's admirable, truly. But they can't stop everyday people or disgruntled foreign converts being indoctrinated into bombers... all you need to spread 'terror' is an explosive device, a backpack, and someone willing to carry it; and they can't stop the cause and effect that is sometimes perpetrated by yours and mine own governments that fuels this fire of terrorism. Our governments are by no means innocent in this - hit up a little history of the ME and you'll see we've been poking our fingers in their pies for a long time, and nothing is without consequence. "Al-Qaeda" mind you, is almost certainly political, not religious ideology and intent, it just hangs out in the guise of religious ideology (or people actually think it's Muslims vs Christians) and it's to do with power struggles of select groups and sects in the ME. As long as our countries continue to involve themselves in this and in the ME, this will continue to be our problem.

You can't wage war on terrorists with conventional methods and means, so we are more than likely in for long, long haul here - just like the UK is with Northern Ireland's Troubles, and terrorism hasn't really gone away there either after 40 years, they're still at it and will be until the separatist ideology (or just the wanton violence) finally passes on or there is some other change. This isn't Iraq, a conventional invasion, easily won with superior power in a matter of weeks. What would you bet that killing Bin Laden will actually stop "Al-Qaeda" dead in its tracks? I wouldn't bet anything, because if they're serious, they've got ten guys lined up already to take his place and carry on. And why are they attacking us in the first place, and why do they attack places and symbols of Western prosperity? Western influence, presence and pressure in the ME which the West is well aware aggravates groups in the ME; AQ don't like it and since they don't have the means to confront it physically, this is the only way they can. Unfortunately for us, it is very easy and cheap for them to make bombs and recruit people. I suspect this problem will be with us for a long time to come; but it might just ease off if our governments too eased off in the ME. Which they won't - too much oil interest. Terrorism, war and unrest is a price I'm sure our governments are prepared to bear to maintain their interests there.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
P.S. China has a bigger military. ;)

I can't see the military being able to stop terrorism, full-stop, ever. You can't fight an ideology like this with fire, only with education and a better foreign policy. And I'm not entirely sure what 'progress' has been made in the Middle East? If you're referring to Iraq, we invaded on the pretext of WMDs that weren't there, found Saddam cowering in a hole and fed him to his own people, but the average Iraqi's situation nor safety hasn't improved in reality a whole lot. In Afghanistan we are fighting a war that doesn't seem winnable because the governments, police and to some extent the people are not entirely on our side, nor anti-Taliban. How can that be won? We kill Bin Laden up the road and down the road 300+ Taliban commanders dig their way out of an Afghan prison just a couple of weeks before for the third time in just a few years, obviously with help from the prison guards. Not to belittle the efforts of our soldiers - it's our governments I have problems with, sending them off to do things evidently not thought out properly.

Personally I see the military of either of our countries as professionals, there to do a job, and thank God they do. I respect their willingness to put their lives on the line for others, it's admirable, truly. But they can't stop everyday people or disgruntled foreign converts being indoctrinated into bombers... all you need to spread 'terror' is an explosive device, a backpack, and someone willing to carry it; and they can't stop the cause and effect that is sometimes perpetrated by yours and mine own governments that fuels this fire of terrorism. Our governments are by no means innocent in this - hit up a little history of the ME and you'll see we've been poking our fingers in their pies for a long time, and nothing is without consequence. "Al-Qaeda" mind you, is almost certainly political, not religious ideology and intent, it just hangs out in the guise of religious ideology (or people actually think it's Muslims vs Christians) and it's to do with power struggles of select groups and sects in the ME. As long as our countries continue to involve themselves in this and in the ME, this will continue to be our problem.

You can't wage war on terrorists with conventional methods and means, so we are more than likely in for long, long haul here - just like the UK is with Northern Ireland's Troubles, and terrorism hasn't really gone away there either after 40 years, they're still at it and will be until the separatist ideology (or just the wanton violence) finally passes on or there is some other change. This isn't Iraq, a conventional invasion, easily won with superior power in a matter of weeks. What would you bet that killing Bin Laden will actually stop "Al-Qaeda" dead in its tracks? I wouldn't bet anything, because if they're serious, they've got ten guys lined up already to take his place and carry on. And why are they attacking us in the first place, and why do they attack places and symbols of Western prosperity? Western influence, presence and pressure in the ME which the West is well aware aggravates groups in the ME; AQ don't like it and since they don't have the means to confront it physically, this is the only way they can. Unfortunately for us, it is very easy and cheap for them to make bombs and recruit people. I suspect this problem will be with us for a long time to come; but it might just ease off if our governments too eased off in the ME. Which they won't - too much oil interest. Terrorism, war and unrest is a price I'm sure our governments are prepared to bear to maintain their interests there.

About China- that I know. XD

I also haven't got the slightest idea was I was talking about it that post. I just reread it and was like, "lol wut?" I had just woken up after not getting much sleep though sooooo.......yeah. :cool:
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Only four countries in the world scare me, and one of them is China (the other three being Iran, N. Korea and Russia).

The Pakistan government are saying that from the pictures released, it wasn't Bin Laden, but his next door neighbor. :S
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
China doesn't seem so bad, they mind their own business - their government gets annoyed when we point fingers because they know we're hypocrites (the U.S. for example will harp on about their lousy human rights record, and they will shoot back with the fact the U.S. still permits the death penalty). To be honest, they're right - the West can be extremely hypocritical, and expects everyone to follow their lead, and China insists that its human rights and border issues are its own to deal with as it sees fit (which I kind of agree with, we can't always go sticking our oar in everywhere when we ourselves are far from perfect). The government and 'secret police' however I would be very careful to step around, if I lived there. They know how to make inconvenient people 'disappear'.

I think the U.S. fears China's increasing financial power rather than military might. After all, they owe China a tidy sum - as do we! Better brush up on that Mandarin, we'll probably all be speaking it in 25 years. XD
 
Only four countries in the world scare me, and one of them is China (the other three being Iran, N. Korea and Russia).

The Pakistan government are saying that from the pictures released, it wasn't Bin Laden, but his next door neighbor. :S
Never noticed Iran as a scary country!! why?
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I'm joking really... but, China is emerging as a strong world power, ironically due to our capitalist tendencies to import the cheapest possible labour and goods. Also picked it up in a few films, TV shows and games where the future is portrayed as the two world powers being The U.S. and China, or just China... with Chinese writing commonplace where people are speaking English?

It's also one of the most useful languages to take alongside a business course now, apparently.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
Never noticed Iran as a scary country!! why?
Sorry Drakkar. I just think its the way countries (and their leaders) are portrayed in the media.

Lexy: i heard about the mandarin and business thing back in college. (5/6 years ago). I can remember my IT art tutor saying that one day Google will be set out in Madarin... the whole class started to panic. He tried to reassure them all, but they spent the next 2 hours worrying about learning a new language.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
English has been one of the main languages everyone from non-English speaking countries learns second due to our domination of the business world so far, so I guess we've been lucky (or lazy...); but having said that, English is seemingly a lot easier to pick up than Chinese and Chinese ideograms.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
It was something that was metioned on the BBC UK news. The picture that they had shown was of a guy from behind with a beard... who knows where they got it from, or who it is. But that Is the only picture I've seen. So really that picture could be of anyone.
Personally, i don't think those pics will be released to the public. But, thats my opinion
 
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