@D0NN1E
You know what?
I think "????" is a better fit for Vergil. I just thought it was a goof, ya know? Or some sort of prank. Good to see him keeping up with the whole "mysterious" image.
On a side note: I'm glad you liked the mask idea as much as I did. It's a shame that it wasn't there, but, a small detail like that won't lesson the experience, so in the end, it's not really that big of a deal.
Ah, so you didn't have to hire a martial artist to mo-cap the moves?
That's good because you got to save money on an already tight budget, and the moves that Vergil already has in Downfall look accurate enough as they are, imo. Personally, I think it was well done.
[Yes, there have been a few complaints here and there, but I honestly don't put much stock in them, so it's better not to think about that if you can't add more moves in such a limited time frame to begin with.]
So... what would Vergil have instead of straight up hand-to-hand combat moves?
I know you're going to hate this idea, but just mull on it for a second...
The katars.
http://soulcalibur.wikia.com/wiki/Manas_&_Ayus
It's not strictly hand-to-hand, but it's close enough to be able to um... "scratch that close quarters feel" if you will.
I agree with you on Vergil being an "economic fighter". It makes sense, considering the fact that his moves are "just showy enough" and he doesn't fool around when taking demons down like Dante does.
It's all about (surgical) precision.
However, I'm not saying that he should have Voldo's moveset. Absolutely not. Just the katar weapons -- in my opinion, they suit him quite well, personality-wise.
It would act as an excellent balance between getting close, but not too close to the enemy.
But hey, if you disagree, and think he should maintain his distance, then that's fine with me. You know more about this whole gaming business than I, after all.
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@InfernalOverkill
JJJ, in my honest, most humble opinion, was the original mixed martial art.
While it didn't have high kicks, it did have a bevy of striking moves; the reason it was comprised mostly of chokes and whatnot was because they had to get past the armored defenses of the enemy samurai. However, strikes were very much a part of their repertoire.
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http://goshinryu.orgfree.com/jujutsu.html
"Jujutsu uses a wide variety that striking in orderto unbalance or redirect the attacker's attention, gaining controlof the situation. Judo is primarily a grappling system that placesrules and restriction on the use of striking techniques, becauseof this lack of striking, judo is in-effective as a self-defensesystem. This element of control is an advantage of jujutsu overpunch and kick defense systems (karate, tae kwon do, etc.). However,controlling techniques can regulate the amount of force so thatthe effects can be judged immediately and adjustments made inthe technique, if necessary.
There are three kicksfound in traditional jujutsu; the front kick, side kick, and backkick. With the popularity of karate, and the blending of techniquesby students and instructors, many systems now claim the same kickingtechniques as the karate systems, but traditionally, there areno high kicks, no turning kicks, and no aerial kicks in the art.The kicks of jujutsu are also used as secondary weapons designedto set up an attacker or to inhibit his motion. Once control ofthe attacker has been gained, a kick may be used as a stunningweapon should control prove difficult."
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http://www.taijutsukai.co.uk/
"TJK upholds the original concepts of Ju Jutsu and addresses all aspects of self defence both standing and on the ground. It's STRUCTURED and FUNCTIONAL self defence syllabus is based on a blend of both traditional and modern aspects of the art and provides effective reality based self defence skills"
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Not trying to start an argument, not saying that there were any high kicks in JJJ, but I am saying that it did indeed have striking moves.
So yes, while Bruce Lee may have been the "father" of "Modern MMA", he wasn't necessarily its "inventor" -- at least not when looking at the big picture.
Not saying that you implied that, I'm just thinking that that was where the conversation would lead to, eventually -- so I decided to clear that up early on.
Also, I liked your ideas on Vergil (except for the Muay Thai). However, a side step isn't really all that great of an idea, imo.
The Darkslayer style keeps everything fast, yet still brutal at the same time.
You know what I mean: fast strikes with long recovery times due to the fact that so much power was being put into his moves.
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Side note: Just to make this (very off-topic) part of the conversation perfectly clear, I'm not confusing JJJ with Ninjutsu, which is NOT a martial art, but is rather the art of "independent" espionage (and arson).
Today's "espionage" consists more of following and tapping phones (Cold War tactics), hacking, or spying with drones (and all out of the government budget/taxpayers pockets, no less) as opposed to straight up having to "do everything yourself" (Historical Ninjutsu) and living in the wild so that you're better able to scout enemy territory (with nearly zero, if any, government spending -- reportedly).
https://thehistorypressuk.wordpress.com/2012/09/26/the-ninja-or-samuari-myth-by-antony-cummins/
Also, they only conducted assassinations very occasionally; it was much more effective to just destroy the entire base/castle with fire after sneaking in or after infiltrating the enemy ranks (and
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Here are some vids from games that have used martial arts experts and used traditional fighting moves when recording during motion capture.
Also, the first vid demonstrates how JJJ uses almost all aspects of defense. If you just used grapples, you'd be pummeled by your opponent's friends and whatnot.
And yes, it is of my strong opinion that both Kage Maru and Ryo Hazuki used a "stylized" version of Japanese Ju Jutsu. Exaggerated yes, but the core "principles" are still very much there, imo.
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Look, I'm sure you're familiar with all of this, but I just thought it'd be better to clear the air here, so that there would be no misunderstanding.
While I know that muay thai is a functional martial art, it doesn't exactly suit my tastes.
Besides, Tony Jaa was using Muay Boran and other martial arts moves during his movies -- Muay Thai only enters into the equation sometimes.
Not trying to get into an argument about Tony Jaa, either. Just saying that even though his movies (except his latest one, Honor of the Beast 2/The Protector 2, that one was just plain awful) are great, it's still not my martial art of choice.
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Sorry to go so far off-topic, but I really thought that this should be discussed.
Anyway, I'm not going to be on for a little bit, so I might not get back to you guys for a while. Cheers.
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Side note: Just in case you're wondering, the sword in my sig is a "Shikomizue" the weapon that was used in "Zatoichi: The Blind Samurai".
It's basically a Japanese sword cane... but I like to call it a "Staffsword" because it just sounds cooler that way.
(Yes, I know that the "Swordstaff" was a polearm, but I still prefer to use a variation of the term)
The quarterstaff/short staff/jo staff is my favorite weapon (because you can use both kendo and bo staff techniques); but when you combine that concept with a sword, it just makes it that much better, imo.
Try to be more specific.
