Right owners vs Creator

[Vezild]

I don´t know how much of DMC 1 is Hidekis work. But i know this much - he is called the creator so it must be alot. And with that said Vezild has someone ruined your work like this case with Dante?

Have you created a character only to see it be ruined by someone else and u had no rights to complain? Yes/No please.

Well, no, because I haven't really created much. Now, I'm working on a novel, and I know how I'd feel if someone ruined my work (wait, are you saying Dante was ruined? I say otherwise). I'd just move on. Nothing much I can do about it. Sure, it'll annoy me (has Kamiya shown distaste for DmC, by the way?). But, hey, if that person has the rights, it's beyond me. I can work to fix it later on, though. It's a flexible world and nothing is eternal.

 

[Virago]

And how is that fair?

It's fair because I did the work as part of my normal job functions. My former employer didn't need to keep my work as-is. They were within their rights to scrap everything I did. And by "they" what I really mean is my replacement.

That's life.

 

[CoolDemon]

It's fair because I did the work as part of my normal job functions. My former employer didn't need to keep my work as-is. They were within their rights to scrap everything I did. And by "they" what I really mean is my replacement.

That's life.

Could you explain that in a other way again? I got confused by "work as-is" and so on.

 

[Virago]

Could you explain that in a other way again? I got confused by "work as-is" and so on.

Long story short, I designed some marketing materials for a business. Mostly I did some flyers, cards and a tiny website.

Well, as you may have guessed, I can write a good piece. Unfortunately, however, I didn't have any kind of graphic design software. Not even Photoshop. So when I left the position, the company hired a replacement who took apart everything I did and kept all of my wording and website coding. All of this was within the company's rights - they paid me to write and design for them and, after I left, they decided to take what they liked about my work and mash it with their new employee's work. They don't have to stop using everything just because I'm not there anymore.

It was a reboot, if you will, of my former employer's marketing campaign!

 

[ToCool74]

(has Kamiya shown distaste for DmC, by the way?)l.

Actually he has.

A while back some fans where saying how much they hate the new Dante and want the old one back. And he said something along the lines of "Yea, I miss the old Dante to". And than later he said if Capcom wanted he and Platinum Games would be happy to take over the development of the game if Capcom asked.

But it finally got to the point where so many fans where flooding his twitter bitching about the reboot that he finally had enough and went off on the fans telling them there is nothing he can do and to go and bitch to Capcom.

I can not really blame the guy.

Its bad enough you do not have control over your creation anymore but having fans bitch at you talking about "do something Kamiya" or "Please Kamiya take over this reboot" this will surely get on your nerves after a couple 100 times hearing it and knowing there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[Vezild]

Actually he has.

A while back some fans where saying how much they hate the new Dante and want the old one back. And he said something along the lines of "Yea, I miss the old Dante to". And than later he said if Capcom wanted he and Platinum Games would be happy to take over the development of the game if Capcom asked.

But it finally got to the point where so many fans where flooding his twitter bitching about the reboot that he finally had enough and went off on the fans telling them there is nothing he can do and to go and bitch to Capcom.

I can not really blame the guy.

Its bad enough you do not have control over your creation anymore but having fans bitch at you talking about "do something Kamiya" or "Please Kamiya take over this reboot" this will surely get on your nerves after a couple 100 times hearing it and knowing there is nothing you can do about it.

I just hate how it seems some people turn into five year olds with this! That really is annoying.
But, in any case, I'm sticking with my stance. Kamiya has the reputation, but no right.

 

[CoolDemon]

Long story short, I designed some marketing materials for a business. Mostly I did some flyers, cards and a tiny website.

Well, as you may have guessed, I can write a good piece. Unfortunately, however, I didn't have any kind of graphic design software. Not even Photoshop. So when I left the position, the company hired a replacement who took apart everything I did and kept all of my wording and website coding. All of this was within the company's rights - they paid me to write and design for them and, after I left, they decided to take what they liked about my work and mash it with their new employee's work. They don't have to stop using everything just because I'm not there anymore.

It was a reboot, if you will, of my former employer's marketing campaign!

But it was your job to make the stuff for them. So they had the rights so i dont see how its right to compare your situation to a situation where someones work is stolen.

For example i thought Hideki Kamiyas work got stolen, but when u told me he got paid to make the stuff for Capcom i was like "Oh ok".

 

[Asmodaius]

The creator cannot be entitled to anything if he doesn't have the rights to have it.
That's not how it works. Capcom has the rights to Dante, so though Hideki Kamiya created Dante, he isn't entitled to use Dante in anything he wants, because Dante isn't his to do so.

Should Hideki Kamiya use Dante in something, like, a game of his own, then Capcom can sue him, because they own Dante and the rights to use him. That's the law.

Though I am glad and thankful that Hideki Kamiya created Dante, one of the most awesome characters in the videogame world, then Capcom are the ones who are entitled to him.

That's how it works.

 

[Virago]

But it was your job to make the stuff for them. So they had the rights so i dont see how its right to compare your situation to a situation where someones work is stolen.

For example i thought Hideki Kamiyas work got stolen, but when u told me he got paid to make the stuff for Capcom i was like "Oh ok".

Exactly!

 

[CoolDemon]

Exactly!

 

[CoolDemon]

Virago enlightened me about why Capcom is the owner of Dante. And with that said we have all voted for Hideki wrongly. He got paid for making Dante for Capcom.

That i did not know until Virago told me.

 

[V's patron]

Well, it would be cool for capcom to sell the rights to DMC to kamiya as a gesture of good will to fans but that not ever gonna happen.

I would support the right owners since legally they do own the rights to DMC but that doesnt mean they know what to do with them.

 

[berto]

Hold on a second. It isn't as simple as that. Kamiya isn't the only one who created Dante, Shinji Mikami was executive producer in that game and he put in alot to Dante, as well, and Kobayashi did, too. When you talk about the creator you can't just say 'it was that one guy,' and give him all the credit. More than a few people went into Dante's creation, character designer, directors, producers, modelers, animators, and so on.

This is why this isn't just as clean cut as that. He isn't the creation of one man, even as the director, the people who created Dante are more than one, so out of all of them, hell, just out of the three head honchos who made him who'd get to keep him? Kamiya? Why not, he's the director. Why not Mikami? If you've ever played a Mikami game you'll recognice that sass in any of his characters, Vanessa, Leon, Sam, Gene... Well, maybe not Gene, but you definitly feel his hand in Dante's creation. How 'bout Kobayashi? He worked on more DMC titles than the other two including the original and the most finacially succesful (4) of all of them, why can't it go to him?

We are saying Kamiya tight now because we rather see him do DMC than Bayonetta but the reality of it is that there are several people involved in his creation and it isn't as clean cut as all that.

 

[CoolDemon]

Hold on a second. It isn't as simple as that. Kamiya isn't the only one who created Dante, Shinji Mikami was executive producer in that game and he put in alot to Dante, as well, and Kobayashi did, too. When you talk about the creator you can't just say 'it was that one guy,' and give him all the credit. More than a few people went into Dante's creation, character designer, directors, producers, modelers, animators, and so on.

This is why this isn't just as clean cut as that. He isn't the creation of one man, even as the director, the people who created Dante are more than one, so out of all of them, hell, just out of the three head honchos who made him who'd get to keep him? Kamiya? Why not, he's the director. Why not Mikami? If you've ever played a Mikami game you'll recognice that sass in any of his characters, Vanessa, Leon, Sam, Gene... Well, maybe not Gene, but you definitly feel his hand in Dante's creation. How 'bout Kobayashi? He worked on more DMC titles than the other two including the original and the most finacially succesful (4) of all of them, why can't it go to him?

We are saying Kamiya tight now because we rather see him do DMC than Bayonetta but the reality of it is that there are several people involved in his creation and it isn't as clean cut as all that.

I thought that Hideki was the creator of Dante. But whoever the creator is, i want Dante to go to the creator, if it was stolen from him/her. If it was his/her job to make Dante then its no problem.

 

[V's patron]

lets not give it to kobayashi, i dont want it to get worse.

well i think the choices should be amended to to the rights of the capcom board versus the the rights of team clover, the studio that made the dmc games.

 

[CoolDemon]

lets not give it to kobayashi, i dont want it to get worse.

well i think the choices should be amended to to the rights of the capcom board versus the the rights of team clover, the studio that made the dmc games.

This thread has no more discussion value in it if the person who made Dante was paid for making Dante. So if that person is no longer in Capcom - Dante is Capcoms property. And if that person is in Capcom - then same thing if Capcom paid the person.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

^So, shall I close the thread?
To be honest I think, it has some potential to remain open, but since you're the creator I'll leave it up to you

 

[berto]

I feel like i should say something just in case the thing closes and there are things left unsaid...

What a to-do to die today, at a minute or two to two;
a thing distinctly hard to say, but harder still to do.
We'll beat a tattoo, at twenty to two
a rat-tat-tat- tat-tat-tat- tat-tat-tattoo
and the dragon will come when he hears the drum
at a minute or two to two today, at a minute or two to two.

 

[CoolDemon]

^So, shall I close the thread?
To be honest I think, it has some potential to remain open, but since you're the creator I'll leave it up to you

Better close so that forum has popular topics up.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Alrighty then.

I feel like i should say something just in case the thing closes and there are things left unsaid...

What a to-do to die today, at a minute or two to two;
a thing distinctly hard to say, but harder still to do.
We'll beat a tattoo, at twenty to two
a rat-tat-tat- tat-tat-tat- tat-tat-tattoo
and the dragon will come when he hears the drum
at a minute or two to two today, at a minute or two to two.

This made everything more clear