Out of Style - Dante's Controls

[Goldsickle]

It didn't matter if it was Dante, Nero or Vergil.
Long before DMC5 even was confirmed, I already disliked the mutated Resident Evil control scheme, where you need to press R1 for f***ing everything.

They had something going for with DmC, focusing on a lock-on-free mechanic, where you don't fail a Stinger or Split because you press slightly sideways against the locked-on enemy, while the camera is turning without your authorization.

I believe the best way to compact things is to merge signature moves and the dash button.
For example, if R1 is the dash/sprint button.
Dashing into a Stinger, Jet Stream, Revolver or Reverb Shock would actually feel natural.
You can press R1+Forward (towards enemy)+Sword to execute it, like normal.
I got this idea from doing slides in Metal Gear Rising, where the command for sliding is the same as a Stinger (R1+Forward+Triangle).
There was no need to "lock-on" to the enemy first or even tilt the stick directly at the enemy and the slide will always pull off.

 

[D.Dark]

Most of what you guys suggest will break Dante and the finesse of the control scheme. Makes me wonder if you people even tried playing the game properly. Since there is no inertia there isn't even a need to style switch as quickly now. There are no directional swordmaster inputs in air for a lot of things etc.. the current control scheme works fine.

It seems like you guys want to change the design of the game to something significantly worse because of your inability to let go of the analogue stick.

And even then, every enemy can be beaten with every style. So I don't even understand why you guys need to btch to make it significantly worse for the people who care.

Although I do admit, some styles could use some streamlining. But not the extent any one of you suggest.

 

[DarkSlayer54]

Most of what you guys suggest will break Dante and the finesse of the control scheme. Makes me wonder if you people even tried playing the game properly. Since there is no inertia there isn't even a need to style switch as quickly now. There are no directional swordmaster inputs in air for a lot of things etc.. the current control scheme works fine.

It seems like you guys want to change the design of the game to something significantly worse because of your inability to let go of the analogue stick.

And even then, every enemy can be beaten with every style. So I don't even understand why you guys need to btch to make it significantly worse for the people who care.

Although I do admit, some styles could use some streamlining. But not the extent any one of you suggest.

Dante sure isn't broken for me. DmC control scheme works well, and makes the experience several times better for me.

There are objective advantages to both schemes... I would argue the DmC scheme is better for newer players, but ultimately it's subjective as hell.

You can't tell me the DmC control scheme doesn't work with DMC5, because I'm literally using it to enjoy his gameplay by a significantly higher margin.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@D.Dark - Well it’s pretty evident they played the games since they wouldn’t be here otherwise. There’s ways of making your point without just saying “stop your bìtching and moaning” as that’s not nice and is more likely for nobody to pay your points much attention.

Furthermore if you’re happy with how the styles are implemented in the games then that’s great. But if there are people that aren’t then they should be allowed to discuss their issues with it and concerns without people telling them to shut up and get over it essentially.

Besides it makes no difference since I doubt the game developers are going to implement any of the ideas suggested here if they are already happy with what they’ve got going.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

I am just so used to my control shceme I used since 3 that having the main entry purely streamlined would be completely alien to me

But then, you got by just fine controlling characters like Nero and Vergil, right? They have the streamlined controls that I'm looking for in Dante (and what a certain sword does to an extent). It's not really changing things all that much. It's not demanding you to start learning, like, literally Nioh and its three stances and two attack types, it's just...having all the sword attacks be on the aptly named Sword Attack button. It's asking for a little more consistency in the controls, improving the user experience.

And sorry, I don't mean to call you out or anything.

Most of what you guys suggest will break Dante and the finesse of the control scheme.

Gotta disagree. How does it break Dante when it's simply streamlining where actions are executed on the controller?

I would heavily disagree with it breaking his finesse. Literally my point is that Dante has very little finesse when compared to not just every other character's control scheme in the franchise, but every other action game. His scheme lacks finesse because it strictly relies on a system that is incredibly clunky in both mechanics and theme.

In mechanics? The functions for Dante to execute moves is literally spread across the entire controller, from left to right. If I wanna do an Aerial Rave, I have to hit D-Pad Right for Swordmaster, then use an entirely different button for the sword attack, instead of the actual designated Sword Attack button. How that isn't found to be clunky is beyond me, and I can only assume it's people that are so stuck on being purists that it is actually a detriment to this entire franchise, so resistant to change and any inclusion and accessibility.

In theme? Why does Dante have to forego the use of all other abilities from other Styles when he selects one, when this guy can use swords and guns in tandem no matter what? Obviously, it's because it's a holdover from DMC3 where you had to run with a single style until you found a Divinity Statue to switch (if you so desired), but this is no longer a problem.

Makes me wonder if you people even tried playing the game properly.

That's a pretty strange assumption to make. How does one "play the game properly" in your regard?

the current control scheme works fine.

Well yeah, I'm just saying it could work better. There's no reason for Dante to not have a more streamlined system, especially since now they literally gave him weapons that do just that. Balrog, Cavalier, and Cerberus all have aerial raves on the Sword Attack key. The only weapons now that behave like his old control scheme are literally broken and absorbed to make a better sword.

It seems like you guys want to change the design of the game to something significantly worse because of your inability to let go of the analogue stick.

For one, "significantly worse" is wholly subjective. For another, it has zero to do with an "inability to let go for the analogue stick" and everything to do with how outdated Dante's control scheme is, how you can play all of DMC4 with characters that feel great, and then when you switch to Dante suddenly the entire core philosophy of how certain buttons work hops in a DeLorean, hits 88 mph, and blasts back to 2005 to divorce any finesse streamlined into the control scheme since then.

And even then, every enemy can be beaten with every style. So I don't even understand why you guys need to btch to make it significantly worse for the people who care.

What are you even talking about? It'd just be nice of Dante felt as nice to control as all the other characters that came out that emulate his playstyle, yet do it better. This entire thing of mine literally comes to "Styles are dumb and old, put Aerial Rave on Triangle you cowards."

What even makes it "significantly worse" to you? Use your words to articulate your point, rather than just repeating the thesis.

You can't tell me the DmC control scheme doesn't work with DMC5, because I'm literally using it to enjoy his gameplay by a significantly higher margin.

I'm really interested to see how this all works.

 

[ef9dante_oSsshea]

Nah your not calling me out bud , v was simple which felt bland to me

Vergil and Nero have their own depth to their combat which isn't as diverse but they still have it so I enjoy their combat a lot too

As for Dante he is unique and in his own league with what can be done with him

I completely understand making things less complicated button commands wise

I just love the styles , they are cool and allow me in tandem with jump canceling to have a lot of fun in combat

And to me combat should be about fun

I'm all for the options to change inputs for people who prefer it that way, maybe a system where u can choose would be cool

 

[DarkSlayer54]

I'm really interested to see how this all works.

Sure, do you want to know just a high level explanation of how the controls were translated, or do you want to see the source code as well?

 

[Taramafor]

Thing is Dante's style works. It's simple but effective. Nero seems a little more clunky somehow. Especially given the fact that he only has two weapons (three if we count his arm but it's limited). It's most likely because Nero's move sets are much more limited in number (goes double in 4).

V has his own odd style but it's two at once with the third now and then. Slightly annoying having to do two attack types at once (especially with the hold attacks). But just about manageable. Having an AI option for self attacking on one of them could have helped (risking them getting hit more easily but negating having to control at all times).

Dante has... ALL THAT STUFF! How else would you do it? Quick swapping with a button press is the most effective. No question. And another for a change of combat styles. It's simple but it works. I only have a problem with two things myself. First, have a BACK and a FORTH key/button for swords and guns. Second, let me change between fists and feet more easily on the fly. The way it's handled here is kind of clunky.

I think the main problem is we can't select EXACTLY what weapon we want between combos. Which I can understand. Possible to do that on the PC quite easily. But blame limited gamepad controls. We do NOT need a repeat of the awkward combat controls from the reboot either (seriously, holding instead of PRESSING?). That was annoying as hell. But I can see some sort of "weapon wheel" working. Where it slows time as you select in the middle of a combo.

 

[DarkSlayerVergil]

Thing is Dante's style works. It's simple but effective. Nero seems a little more clunky somehow. Especially given the fact that he only has two weapons (three if we count his arm but it's limited). It's most likely because Nero's move sets are much more limited in number (goes double in 4).

V has his own odd style but it's two at once with the third now and then. Slightly annoying having to do two attack types at once (especially with the hold attacks). But just about manageable. Having an AI option for self attacking on one of them could have helped (risking them getting hit more easily but negating having to control at all times).

Dante has... ALL THAT STUFF! How else would you do it? Quick swapping with a button press is the most effective. No question. And another for a change of combat styles. It's simple but it works. I only have a problem with two things myself. First, have a BACK and a FORTH key/button for swords and guns. Second, let me change between fists and feet more easily on the fly. The way it's handled here is kind of clunky.

I think the main problem is we can't select EXACTLY what weapon we want between combos. Which I can understand. Possible to do that on the PC quite easily. But blame limited gamepad controls. We do NOT need a repeat of the awkward combat controls from the reboot either (seriously, holding instead of PRESSING?). That was annoying as hell. But I can see some sort of "weapon wheel" working. Where it slows time as you select in the middle of a combo.

Copy and pasted my post from the "Dante trailer" thread: after thinking about it some more, I'd still have GS moves mapped to □+X, SM mapped to ○+/\, and Trickster movement mechanic would be only be active while you're locked onto an enemy. This would let the player freely maneuver around the environment while still locked onto on top of keeping the momentum up. RG would be treated similar to MGS:Rising parry system where you'll parry by simply pressing forward right as the enemy attacks and then what energy you'd could be released through your next attack(dreadnaught would be activated through R3+L3). L1 could still be devil trigger(so people can still damage burst with it) and the triggers would still be used for shuffling devil-arms and firearms.

 

[Goldsickle]

Alex getting screwed over by the Style system.

1:52:30.
Presses Circle to Dash, except that he was in Sword Master Style.

I'm sure a lot of people keep having the wrong Style activated whenever they press Circle more than they're willing to admit, especially when they're tense or having a bad day.