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"Nothing is True. Everything is Permitted". Your Interpretation?

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
Now I for one have never played any of the Assassin's Creed games to date, including the first one!

But somehow, the Assassin maxim of "Nothing is true; everything is permitted" kinda made sense... And, seeing how I interpret it in different ways as seen below:
  1. There is no such thing as "real"/"actual" Dante (nothing is true); Dante has become different interpretations of himself ever since DMC2, in which I understand Hideki Kamiya's tweet regarding Dante has changed quite well (everything is permitted). I said this in the thread "At the end of the day, the real Dante is..." in which I agree with DragonMaster2010. (DMC-related; I know some of you would disagree...)
  2. No interpretation is "right" or "wrong" (nothing is true); everybody has their own interpretations of something (everything is permitted) in which I agree with Jak in the thread "why are "the fans" are so hard to please?". (not limited to DMC here...)
Now it's your turn how you can interpret this saying because I saw throughout the net people making their interpretations of it when I Googled it up in which its origin came from the 1938 novel Alamut, which is the story of Hassan i-Sabbah and the Hashshashin with its title named after their Alamut fortress, different websites, including Yahoo! Answers and Ask.com, since I already said my interpretations for it. Tell me your interpretation of the Assassin maxim of "Nothing is true; everything is permitted" or rather Hassan i-Sabbah's "Nothing is an absolute reality, all is permitted".

Anyone?
 

aoshi

Well-known Member
I don't agree to it. There is definitely 'truth' in any subject of the matter and there are our imaginations/fantasy. We can call 'truth' as 'fact' as well. Which brings me to 'destiny'. I don't know how many believe in it but i do. And some times 'fate' too. We can say we ought to fight fate but can't deny its existence cuz without it we can't fight to change it.But believing or non-believing in destiny, fate would make the difference to the subject matter.

P.S. I don't do religion....:tongue:
 

VOLPE

SSStylish Swordsman
It means that this world is a matter of perspective-nothing is true means that anything at anytime can change in perspective and in reality good can all of a sudden become evil and vice versa nothing except death is concrete and even that can change everything is permitted means that everything is possible there is no impossibility it is still a matter of perspective it also means that the means in some case's justify the ends that that in some matters everything is permitted to reach the end goal but in my opinion everything is permitted means primarily everything is possibly everything is probable nothing is impossible
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
It's the supreme Ismaili motto in the book but I think it was only understood by the top members of the sect.

If you asked me it means something to them - not to the lowly pawns: you can do anything, lie to anyone and manipulate anyone for your agenda. I back this up with the fact their pawns and 'living daggers' were not permitted to believe or do what they wanted, they were subject to strict rules, but Hasan and his friends used, abused, killed and lied to whoever they wished for their own goals of conquest.

Nothing is true is also somewhat true - a lot of what people believe in is malleable and can be bent to make them do what you want, a massive deception plot being a major part of the story.

It makes sense that way to me in Alamut, but I don't think anyone explains it properly in AC. Maybe because they took the idea of assassins not as political tools but as freedom fighters, and the 'leap of faith' part of the book was changed drastically in the game so that Altair and his brothers were not actually killed. So maybe from that perspective it means that assassins can and should harness the power of illusion for their fight (grasping straws there). Given how sensitive the topic of suicide fighters is now, you can see why this was totally scrapped for the game and used in a way that makes the assassins some force for 'good.' Though in doing so I think it leaves the motto a bit redundant.
 
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Railazel

Well-known Member
Now I for one have never played any of the Assassin's Creed games to date, including the first one!

But somehow, the Assassin maxim of "Nothing is true; everything is permitted" kinda made sense... And, seeing how I interpret it in different ways as seen below:
  1. There is no such thing as "real"/"actual" Dante (nothing is true); Dante has become different interpretations of himself ever since DMC2, in which I understand Hideki Kamiya's tweet regarding Dante has changed quite well (everything is permitted). I said this in the thread "At the end of the day, the real Dante is..." in which I agree with DragonMaster2010. (DMC-related; I know some of you would disagree...)
  2. No interpretation is "right" or "wrong" (nothing is true); everybody has their own interpretations of something (everything is permitted) in which I agree with Jak in the thread "why are "the fans" are so hard to please?". (not limited to DMC here...)
Now it's your turn how you can interpret this saying because I saw throughout the net people making their interpretations of it when I Googled it up in which its origin came from the 1938 novel Alamut, which is the story of Hassan i-Sabbah and the Hashshashin with its title named after their Alamut fortress, different websites, including Yahoo! Answers and Ask.com, since I already said my interpretations for it. Tell me your interpretation of the Assassin maxim of "Nothing is true; everything is permitted" or rather Hassan i-Sabbah's "Nothing is an absolute reality, all is permitted".

Anyone?

Well, the qoute demands some clarity because "Nothing is true" is either referring to Subjectivism or Anti- Realism and the word "permitted" either means allowed or accepted which gives the entire phrase two different meanings. So I'll take Hassan's version with "Nothing is an absolute reality" because that seems to be suggesting Anti- Realism. Basically, the intended interpretation of the phrase would be that everything is a lie and those lies are accepted by the people who hear them. It means always be skeptical of what you sense and don't trust anyone or anything. This makes sense for the Assassins because their entire world is conspiracy and secrecy. To them, this maxim isn't just stating to trust nothing but to accept the fact that their new world, their new lives as assassins, are now surrounded by deceit.

Qoutes like these are never really meant to be put under personal interpretation but rather to be inquired of as to understand the thoughts and beliefs of those who followed such creeds. You would be amazed at how deep such beliefs were.
 

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
Well, the qoute demands some clarity because "Nothing is true" is either referring to Subjectivism or Anti- Realism and the word "permitted" either means allowed or accepted which gives the entire phrase two different meanings. So I'll take Hassan's version with "Nothing is an absolute reality" because that seems to be suggesting Anti- Realism. Basically, the intended interpretation of the phrase would be that everything is a lie and those lies are accepted by the people who hear them. It means always be skeptical of what you sense and don't trust anyone or anything. This makes sense for the Assassins because their entire world is conspiracy and secrecy. To them, this maxim isn't just stating to trust nothing but to accept the fact that their new world, their new lives as assassins, are now surrounded by deceit.

Qoutes like these are never really meant to be put under personal interpretation but rather to be inquired of as to understand the thoughts and beliefs of those who followed such creeds. You would be amazed at how deep such beliefs were.
I think this is also for the Escapist type of person, such as myself. Reality is such a harsh thing...!
 

Railazel

Well-known Member
I think this is also for the Escapist type of person, such as myself. Reality is such a harsh thing...!

I wouldn't say so. The second clause, "all is permitted", is a mantra of acceptance that your reality is formed by the lies you accept. On a deeper level, it means you are accepting the world of lies around you without necessarily believing them. This would be perfect for the Skeptical/Anti- Realist who lives in a world he denies but doesn't aid the Escapist who just simply enters his own reality to temporarily leave the one he resides in.
 

MigsRZXAStylish

In a place where no one follows me. i Walk Alone!
I wouldn't say so. The second clause, "all is permitted", is a mantra of acceptance that your reality is formed by the lies you accept. On a deeper level, it means you are accepting the world of lies around you without necessarily believing them. This would be perfect for the Skeptical/Anti- Realist who lives in a world he denies but doesn't aid the Escapist who just simply enters his own reality to temporarily leave the one he resides in.
Ah! OK! :)
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
This is how I see it: Everyone create your own interpretation of life and that will be true for you. Truth is subjective: what is true for one, is a lie for another.

Sometimes I wonder if it is a nihilistic approach where it means that it doesn't matter what you do because nothing is real. You can kill a person, but it will not matter.

Or it could also be referring to the world being a load of lies and that you might as well do what you and create your own truth.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
In short it means:
Do whatever the **** you want.
There are no rules.

Also what exactly is an Escapist? Because it kinda sounds like a fiction writer to me :whistle:
On a very basic level, an escapist is someone who creates a fantasy world, maybe daydreams a lot, to escape their (possibly crappy) life. It doesn't always have to be a fiction writer; could be an artist or musician too.
It can also become a mental illness when a person spends more time in their fantasy and the two begin to bleed into each other.
Most of the time though, that kind of thing is harmless unless a person can't tell the difference.
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
On a very basic level, an escapist is someone who creates a fantasy world, maybe daydreams a lot, to escape their (possibly crappy) life. It doesn't always have to be a fiction writer; could be an artist or musician too.
It can also become a mental illness when a person spends more time in their fantasy and the two begin to bleed into each other.
Most of the time though, that kind of thing is harmless unless a person can't tell the difference.
LOL oh okay. Wouldn't people who like listening to music or going to art galleries or reading books be classed as Escapists too then? This is one of those things where someone is just trying to put a label on creative people, isn't it? Or it sounds that way to me.
Also, highly doubt that daydreaming or fantasising about stuff is going to give you a mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice, you don't choose to live in your fantasy world. You get sucked into it involuntarily. I also think you're referring to schizophrenia and psychosis. There is a vast difference. Daydreaming a lot and being a creative individual who prefers their own little world above that of their lives does not put you more at risk of mental illness. :frown:
 

Railazel

Well-known Member
This is how I see it: Everyone create your own interpretation of life and that will be true for you. Truth is subjective: what is true for one, is a lie for another.

Sometimes I wonder if it is a nihilistic approach where it means that it doesn't matter what you do because nothing is real. You can kill a person, but it will not matter.

Or it could also be referring to the world being a load of lies and that you might as well do what you and create your own truth.
In short it means:
Do whatever the **** you want.
There are no rules.

It means that this world is a matter of perspective-nothing is true means that anything at anytime can change in perspective and in reality good can all of a sudden become evil and vice versa nothing except death is concrete and even that can change everything is permitted means that everything is possible there is no impossibility it is still a matter of perspective it also means that the means in some case's justify the ends that that in some matters everything is permitted to reach the end goal but in my opinion everything is permitted means primarily everything is possibly everything is probable nothing is impossible

While I like the subjective interpretation of the phrase, you have to remember that the qoute is "Nothing is true" as opposed to "Nothing is absolute", it's a small difference but an important one since things are true aren't always absolute. For example, "racism is wrong" is true but not absolute since racism still continues to exist. With that said, to say that nothing is true (or an absolute reality) touches on the idea that human beings have a defined reality based on a set of truths. These truths aren't really true and thus you have to give up on that reality. So a subjective interpretation of that part of the motto won't work since Subjectivism basically says that what's true for you would still be true, just not absolute.

It's good to note that the motto itself hits a paradox when you consider it's intention of being true. If nothing is true, and the phrase is itself is meant to be true, then is the phrase not true? To assume a Subjectivist interpretation would get rid of this paradox which directs the follower to the fact that the mantra isn't itself a truth but an instruction of being skeptical and aware of the secrecy around you.

LOL oh okay. Wouldn't people who like listening to music or going to art galleries or reading books be classed as Escapists too then? This is one of those things where someone is just trying to put a label on creative people, isn't it? Or it sounds that way to me.

The title is an expression of how people "escape" certain aspects of their lives through creative means. So it's not as much a label as it is title.
Also, highly doubt that daydreaming or fantasising about stuff is going to give you a mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice, you don't choose to live in your fantasy world. You get sucked into it involuntarily. I also think you're referring to schizophrenia and psychosis. There is a vast difference. Daydreaming a lot and being a creative individual who prefers their own little world above that of their lives does not put you more at risk of mental illness. :frown:

Actually it does, if you fantasize enough times, your fantasies will become part of your daily lives. For example, if you have think about an attractive woman in heels enough times, you will find yourself more attracted to women with heels than women without them. This prinicple is, believe it or not, a training method used by athletes. It is the basis of shadow boxing, and a method is used where an athlete would envision himself doing his goal and would later find himself improving and reaching that goal. The reason behind this is that your body can't tell the difference between what's real or what's not, it just reacts to whatever the mind sees.

With that said, there have been times where a person's fantasies have been indistinguishable from his/her reality and they have a hard time telling them apart. So, yes, daydreaming too much can cause a mental illness.
 
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Loopy

Devil hunter in training
LOL oh okay. Wouldn't people who like listening to music or going to art galleries or reading books be classed as Escapists too then? This is one of those things where someone is just trying to put a label on creative people, isn't it? Or it sounds that way to me.
Also, highly doubt that daydreaming or fantasising about stuff is going to give you a mental illness. Mental illness is not a choice, you don't choose to live in your fantasy world. You get sucked into it involuntarily. I also think you're referring to schizophrenia and psychosis. There is a vast difference. Daydreaming a lot and being a creative individual who prefers their own little world above that of their lives does not put you more at risk of mental illness. :frown:
Yes, I suppose art galleries and music concerts would also count. Not that all escapism is unhealthy. Some can be very therapeutic and uplifting.
When some people are having a low day, looking at a painting can lift their mood. Some of the most praised artists were also pretty troubled people, sometimes depressed or schizophrenic, who painted their pain or created worlds they preferred to the reality around them, and from their pain came beauty.
Same for musicians. Some of the best pieces of music have come from adverse situations where the artist has turned to music to help them as a form of escape or healing.
I know when I listen to music, sometimes I imagine images to go with it, a bit like a music video. I have also begun to do a little creative writing as part of my dissertation. But I know it's not real, I know the difference between the real world and whatever is in my head. I also don't shun the real world in favour of imaginary things.

I guess escapism can be a gateway to mental illness for some people. Not that every person who likes escapism, daydreams or is creative is automatically mentally ill. I think there have to be other existing psychological or lifestyle factors in play as well; not just a vivid imagination. There's nothing wrong with imagining.
But there are a lot of studies showing that some people who spend too long in their fantasy world are more prone to or already have existing types of mental illness, preferring that to real life, and then go on to shun real life interactions because the world in their head is so much better.
I guess that could also be a symptom of social anxiety though and the escapism is a way to cope with the perceived threat the real world represents. That or avoidant personality disorder, or maybe schizophrenia, as you have said. I also read that there is a strong link between depression and escapism, but I don't know what percentage of people that would account for.
Got to admit though, that would make sense. If a person was depressed, what better way to escape than to retreat into world of their own creation, a world they can control completely, a bit like a safety place to go when life it too much. Sometimes that kind of thing can save a persons life when the world around them is so bad.

My only worry would be getting the person out of that imaginary world if they have become too lost in it; like Harry Potter with that mirror. It shows them the ideal fantasy that they really want, then people waste their lives in that fantasy and forget there is a real world for living in. Good advice for a supposed children's book. :thumbsup:

But I can't deny that this creative writing thing is fun. I wish I'd tried it sooner. Getting to make these characters and working out all their quirks, getting to know them and giving them motivation is fun. :laugh:

It's good to note that the motto itself hits a paradox when you consider it's intention of being true. If nothing is true, and the phrase is itself is meant to be true, then is the phrase not true? To assume a Subjectivist interpretation would get rid of this paradox which directs the follower to the fact that the mantra isn't itself a truth but an instruction of being skeptical and aware of the secrecy around you.
That is very true...or is it false:laugh: Bad joke. Anyway, there is a paradox to that. It's like saying 'this statement is false' or something like that. But I guess in the case of nothing being true, a person would have to believe that statement, and so wouldn't it go back to the individual to make of that statement what the wished? Yet in believing it, the statement would also become false on the premise of nothing is true. It's like some kind of circular logic, no?:cautious:

The title is an expression of how people "escape" certain aspects of their lives through creative means. So it's not as much a label as it is title.


Actually it does, if you fantasize enough times, your fantasies will become part of your daily lives. For example, if you have think about an attractive woman in heels enough times, you will find yourself more attracted to women with heels than women without them. This prinicple is, believe it or not, a training method used by athletes. It is the basis of shadow boxing, and a method is used where an athlete would envision himself doing his goal and would later find himself improving and reaching that goal. The reason behind this is that your body can't tell the difference between what's real or what's not, it just reacts to whatever the mind sees.

With that said, there have been times where a person's fantasies have been indistinguishable from his/her reality and they have a hard time telling them apart. So, yes, daydreaming too much can cause a mental illness
Yes, that was what I meant. People who are unable to tell reality from fantasy worlds. But I think there has to be some level of predisposition to other mental illnesses for anything seriously wrong to come of imagination.
I know of one person who would not date a guy because she had a crush on Edward Cullen, and wrote fantasy about her with him a lot. It really impacted on her ability to find a man because she was stuck on the fantasy. Then again, I guess it would be worse if she dated a man and he found out, then was devastated because he had to compete with an imaginary person in her head....:cautious: Or, like you say, guys who envision a particular woman, and then turn down other women who do not look like the fantasy lady, and so might miss out on chances to date other women who are just as nice.

Or, what about when a person has a very vivid dream, they wake, and they cannot tell the difference? Would that count as a mild form? Or people who have dreams they prefer to reality, so they take sleeping pills to spend more time in the dream world...and we all know what abuse of sleeping pills can lead to...That's when it becomes a danger to a person, when it impacts on the psychological, emotional and physical health of a person, especially when that person has other people relying on them.
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
So, yes, daydreaming too much can cause a mental illness.
http://mindhacks.com/2008/12/17/excessive-and-highly-structured-daydreaming/
Just sayin' so people don't get paranoid and think they're going nuts if they daydream in class or on the bus or whilst doing something excruciatingly boring.

Daydreaming a lot and being a creative individual who prefers their own little world above that of their lives does not put you more at risk of mental illness. :frown:
I'm not taking back what I said, but I should probably elaborate just for the sake of elaboration: if you have suffered some kind of trauma (be it physical, emotional, mental or spiritual) or depression or some mental illness is somewhere in your family line, you are naturally more prone to mental illness than others who do not have any mental health issues in their family. It's something to do with no sufficient neurotransmitters in the brain and how easily influenced ones brain chemistry is toward external and internal events and how the communication between the transmitters and the nerve cells is off: this leads to a whole bunch of jargon like low serotonin and stuff. Etc etc etc.
Genetics.
Blame the effin genetics, I say. Not the daydreams.
 

Railazel

Well-known Member
That is very true...or is it false:laugh: Bad joke. Anyway, there is a paradox to that. It's like saying 'this statement is false' or something like that. But I guess in the case of nothing being true, a person would have to believe that statement, and so wouldn't it go back to the individual to make of that statement what the wished? Yet in believing it, the statement would also become false on the premise of nothing is true. It's like some kind of circular logic, no?:cautious:

Indeed, and the only way to remedy that is by taking the idea that the phrase is a description rather than a claim of universal falsehood. So instead of it saying that everything is false, it is describing the world as being false in nature. So the circular logic stops because "nothing is true" would actually be true.
 

Loopy

Devil hunter in training
http://mindhacks.com/2008/12/17/excessive-and-highly-structured-daydreaming/
Just sayin' so people don't get paranoid and think they're going nuts if they daydream in class or on the bus or whilst doing something excruciatingly boring.
Gosh, I don't think daydreaming to alleviate boredom would count as a serious problem. That would be taking it too far. Honestly, I'm considering daydreaming in some of my lectures.:tongue:

I'm not taking back what I said, but I should probably elaborate just for the sake of elaboration: if you have suffered some kind of trauma (be it physical, emotional, mental or spiritual) or depression or some mental illness is somewhere in your family line, you are naturally more prone to mental illness than others who do not have any mental health issues in their family. It's something to do with no sufficient neurotransmitters in the brain and how easily influenced ones brain chemistry is toward external and internal events and how the communication between the transmitters and the nerve cells is off: this leads to a whole bunch of jargon like low serotonin and stuff. Etc etc etc.
Genetics.
Blame the effin genetics, I say. Not the daydreams.
You mean like how postnatal depression has been found to run in the family? I hear that's a common one, and anxiety attacks also. I wish it hadn't taken researchers this long to figure out because people who have anything like that could get help.
I think the hereditary nature of mental illness would also need to be considered when having children, just in case severe anxiety, schizophrenia or depression was passed down. I don't know how I'd feel if I passed that on to a child.:unsure: I mean, I wouldn't want to set them up with a life of panic attacks, possible therapy and medication. The again, I guess some people don't know until it's too late.
 
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