No edit button? "Your thougths"Hey g

[ToCool74]

Hey guys.

I decided to make this thread to see what other members thought of the newest change to the forum which is definitely going to have a major impact on how people post around here (for better or worse).

Let me make this clear before I post my thoughts.

This is not a topic to try to undermine the authority around here. I know this is your forum and you can run it however you want. Just want to give my opinion and see what everyone else's thoughts.


Now that we have gotten that out of the way.

I do not agree with it and here is why.

I have never seen a forum where the edit button has been taken away from the average member. That in itself leads me to think that a edit button is essential to how a forum is run.
Without the edit button we will no longer be able to add to our posts should we make a honest mistake which really does limit the way people would feel about discussing things. I myself have made spelling error before in my haste to reply but was able to go back and correct them.

Also I don't like that now I will have to wait if we won't to reply to a new comment. Say someone makes a comment while I was posting that I was interested in replying to. Now say no one else replies for days. That in itself would handicap a discussion since we would be FORCED to wait until someone replied and if they did not we would just not be able to have a discussion with that person on that topic.

Now I understand the recent activities that have been going on. People have been making harsh comments and then editing them later on to avoid getting into trouble and I agree that it is wrong. But it was my understanding that Staff members can see these unedited comments which raises the question as to why even take the EDIT button away? You would still be able to punish the party involved in the act so why limit the posting functionality of the forum?

I just does not seem right to me.

I think there were obvious solutions to this issue besides just taking away the edit feature entirely. Some members who actually are GOOD around here and want to have peaceful discussions around here use that EDIT button.

Why should they be punished for a few bad apples in the bunch?

Tell my your thoughts please.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

My thoughts?

I don't know what you're on about. The edit button is on all of my posts. You sure it isn't there? On the left side after the time stamp next to 'report.' Just to make sure I'll try editing this post to make sure it's appearing. I just checked a post in another thread and it was there.

EDIT: Yup, still there.

 

[ToCool74]

I don't know what you're on about

What am I on about?

This
http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/double-triple-etc-posts.10059/

And it would appear that gold members will still have this features since it said "regular" members.

Also, for some reason I am able to edit in this part of the forum but not the actual DMC discussion parts.

weird...

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Hello guys and gals, hope you won't mind me saying my piece, being a member of the staff and all

To start, let me say that the usefulness of the Edit button is something well known, and since so many members seem to protest about its lack now that it has been disabled, obviously quite appreciated. To be honest that makes me quite happy, seeing as I always try to promote it through my occasional don't-double-post rants that some of you might have seen, or even received for yourself.

The Edit button allows for great freedom in your posts. People make (spelling) mistakes for many silly reasons, or think of additional information they want to add to their post, or review their post after it has been written and decide to add examples, re-write some stuff etc.

Despite the fact that most new members who are not quite the forum lurkers, and decide to start their forum career here, do not actually use it that often, it is not wrong to say in my opinion, that the Edit function is probably the best "power" that members (used to) possess.

However, when members break the rules and try to run off with it, if punishment is not made then nothing will change and more will continue to break the rules until this place turns to a warzone.

I'm sure most of you know the ahem.. cause for this already, along with the reasoning behind it.

What I'm trying to say is that some times, the measures taken might appear quite drastic, annoying, even unfair. And in some cases they may be right in feeling so. It's the typical school behaviour (I'm not being sarcastic, bear with me) when the teacher scolds/punishes the whole class because only 2 students were making a fuss. You might have found it annoying and unfair back then, but it was actually quite effective - of course not always, no solution is perfect.
The same thing happened here. I hope you will not stay at the example and start thinking that the members are treated as kids. Remember that a class is a very small society, before doing so. A Forum, is the same thing.

Seeing as the Edit function is so much loved, as I said to Meg in the other thread, it might return sooner or later. Don't forget that the forum = the members, and we staff are not the jailors, but people like you who just try to keep the community under control.

Also, seeing as Angel was the one who enforced this decision first, I'd like for everyone to wait and see her point of view. There are always two sides of a coin (ok besides Dante's coin) and starting to create threads like that before hearing both - and then deciding might be premature. I'm not going to say anymore on the subject, but I hope this thread will not become some sort of flame "bring back the edit!!!!!! you.." because it will actually work against you. I'm not saying it will become, I'm hoping it won't.
Anyway, this is my piece. Thank you for your time.

Edit: As far as the mechanics of where the edit is possible and where it isn't I have no idea same as you as I can't really access it.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

What am I on about?

This
http://devilmaycry.org/community/threads/double-triple-etc-posts.10059/

Ah, that sticky. I missed that little update, my mistake.

It makes sense that it would be disabled in the DMC discussion boards since that's where the arguing and drama tends to come from. I can understand why it could be seen as a good idea because I have seen first hand what the edit button is capable of when used by someone who is immature. They could lose an argument and edit out all of the things they dared to say at one point because they realize how embarrassing it is after the fact. I've also seen people say one thing to **** people off and edit their post to something else immediately to make the other person look bad. I don't frequent those sections so I don't know how bad things are presently with the arguing. If it's bad enough that Shaz decided to take some toys away than I would think it was warranted. She's not one to just do something like this in the heat of the moment so I'm sure it was not done impulsively.

My only concern is that there isn't a way to measure whether removing the edit button is warranted or not. It was taken away for one reason or another (assuming that it's edit button abuse) but how do you decide what is bad enough to remove it? Would it not be better to just make abusing the edit button a major offense worthy of an instant infraction? Say it's not better to do that and we are where we are now: how do you measure whether the time is right to bring it back or not?

But oh well. I don't involve myself in all the nonsense that goes on in those sections so I won't begin to claim what's best for them. All I know is they've caused some major headache over the past year+ and drastic action may seem more warranted. In Shaz we trust.

Now I understand the recent activities that have been going on. People have been making harsh comments and then editing them later on to avoid getting into trouble and I agree that it is wrong. But it was my understanding that Staff members can see these unedited comments which raises the question as to why even take the EDIT button away? You would still be able to punish the party involved in the act so why limit the posting functionality of the forum?

Now this I do have some thoughts on. If someone is going to go and post something that makes them look like an idiot to get at people, they shouldn't be able to erase that. Sure the staff can see it, but that's not enough. The edit button can be looked at as a priveledge that does have the potential to be abused and people do try to hide the times they were idiots using it, which I am firmly against. You can take as much time as you need to make a post correctly. People shouldn't have the right to say something dumb and then erase it after the damage is done. Everyone in the community has a right to laugh at these people, not just the staff. For the sake of everyone's entertainment I say take the edit button away if need be. Let's just enjoy not having an edit button so we can laugh at people, eh?

 

[Chaos Raiden]

Since I am not either an administrator or a moderator, I have no comments on this except to say this is what the administrators decided to do with a reason, and it is not in our place to say something.

If any of the members want to rant about this minor thing, he/she can always go to another forum and have fun with the Edit function. Simple.

 

[chocolateghost79]

it sucks lol
i hate that the action of one had to affect everyone as a whole.

 

[Angel]

Some pointers worth noting.

XenForo software DOES NOT allow staff to see original posts that have since been edited, only those which a member has deleted (as they are "soft-deleted" and not permanently removed), so that particular argument is now invalid. I happened to be online at the time of the most recent offence and saw the original post before it was changed to something else. If that gives off the impression that we can see stuff after it's been edited, then that's all it is because we really can't.

Until we switched software options, the edit button was a PRIVILEGE and not STANDARD ISSUE for regular members. In fact, it was one of the bonuses of being a Gold Supporter, hence why those who are Gold members can still edit.

The edit button is not meant for the use of being disgusting towards other people and then when you've been called on it, changing your words to appear innocent and for the other person to seem as though they are completely overreacting.

The edit button made virtually NO DIFFERENCE to how many people were double and triple posting, as was evident by the number of times Tony had to keep telling people to stop.

Whilst I understand the whole issue of spelling errors, most browsers have a built-in spell checker and even if they don't, it's not hard to find one you can install. I appreciate that for a number of you, English is not your first language, but to be perfectly honest, the odd word here and there that isn't spelt correctly is not a big deal. We've always been able to communicate as a group without too many issues in that regard and people only tend to pick on someone else's spelling mistakes when they are trolling.

If it were at all possible to remove the edit function on a person to person basis, I would have done. In fact, that was what I looked for first. But it's not possible and therefore, thanks to the actions of a few, everyone is having to go without.

I understand how you feel - it sucks. Of course it does. You're being punished, effectively, because a handful of other people cannot wind their necks in and behave themselves. But it is only an edit button - I've not blocked the ability to upload avatars, create sigs, use your profiles, have private conversations with each other etc. Now those things would be far worse, in my view, than the option to correct a spelling error or to include stuff after the fact, as it were.

It is, however, a TEMPORARY MEASURE. This is NOT PERMANENT. I really want to stress this to you all - this isn't lasting forever and certainly not for long-term. I want to see a genuine improvement in how people speak with each other across the boards before I can allow the option to edit your posts back again. I am so totally sick of how some are behaving and getting away with it because of swift editing before staff notice or it gets reported. I only hear of some misdemeanours when I get a PM from an upset member saying "this is what they said", only to follow the link and find it's been changed drastically from what was originally quoted.

I'm giving this removal until the weekend (as in, Saturday morning GMT). If I see an improvement, the button returns and you can all have fun with it again. If people are still being horrible to each other then those people shall be more directly affected, shall we say, and I will ensure the rest of you are able to edit once more.

HOWEVER - if this should have to happen again, the edit button will go for good. I don't want this - you certainly don't want this. So if you know someone who likes to make trouble, have a quiet word and see if they won't listen to you about this whole issue. Because they sure as hell don't listen to the staff. I don't particularly want to go around the board banning people left, right and centre - I don't understand why it's so incredibly hard for some of you to just think before posting.

tl;dr - if people behave, the button returns. It's really up to you guys.

P.S. - I would like to hear some genuinely applicable alternatives to this - I'm not trolling you here. If you have a better solution other than banning someone every time they say something out of line, then I would appreciate the input. If we use banning as the appropriate action, most of the forum will be gone so alternative measures are preferable. Ideas?

 

[ZeroLove]

I can understand why this decision was made due to some of the problems that has happened on this forum recently. However, I also find it missing when I noticed some spelling errors on my own behalf or if I wish to answer a post made just before I posted my own which has happened a few times now. To wait until someone else post after me so I can finally make another post to respond as well, so I won't have to double-post, is tedious and annoying.

A suggestion:
Instead of punishing everyone by removing the edit button, then maybe only punish those who are abusing it?

 

[Angel]

3 days of thinking before posting is not going to hurt anyone. Come Saturday, editing PRIVILEGES will be returned. And come Saturday, some members may well find that they can no longer login. Instead of complaining about it, it would be better to take the time to think before posting and ensure that a banning needn't take place. There are very few threads that are so dead that you have to wait ages before getting to reply, especially in the sections that seem to cause the most problems.

Don't misunderstand me - punishment to those in error is coming. I just want to give everyone a chance to readjust how they behave in the meantime. It's 3 days, that's all. Like I already said, double posting was an issue way before I took this action so the edit button was clearly not being used in that case. You don't have to look for very long before you see Tony having to warn people about multiple posts.

And again, spellcheckers are easy enough to come by if you're concerned about spelling errors.

 

[ToCool74]

Since I am not either an administrator or a moderator, I have no comments on this except to say this is what the administrators decided to do with a reason, and it is not in our place to say something.
If any of the members want to rant about this minor thing, he/she can always go to another forum and have fun with the Edit function. Simple.

sooooo.....

Because I am a regular member I am not allowed to have an opinion?

I should just go to a another forum if I have a slight disagreement with the staff's policy?

I think that is ridiculous.

And here I thought it was ok to give your opinion around here as long as you did not do it in a disrespectful way or attack anyone...

@Angel

Great post and I agree with alot of what you said.

Its nice to hear that this will only be "test drive" so to speak to see how things work.

 

[Chaos Raiden]

sooooo.....

Because I am a regular member I am not allowed to have an opinion?

I should just go to a another forum if I have a slight disagreement with the staff's policy?

I think that is ridiculous.

And here I thought it was ok to give your opinion around here as long as you did not do it in a disrespectful way or attack anyone...

@Angel

Great post and I agree with alot of what you said.

Its nice to hear that this will only be "test drive" so to speak to see how things work.

You can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean everyone will have same opinion with you.

Yes, if you think the staff's policy is wrong.

I don't care if it is ridiculous to you.

This is my opinion on this matter, and if you don't like it, just put me in Ignore List or whatever.

 

[Angel]

@ToCool - Oh absolutely. The edit button is a cool handy little gizmo to have and I would never sanction the permanent removal of it unless this place turned into GameFAQS or something

But for everyone's information - when it returns, we will be putting a time-limit on editing so that someone can't return to a post hours later and change it. It's a compromise of sorts, I suppose. It's 11.51am here right now so by 9am Saturday (using UK time), editing will be back. But some people might not be.

 

[ToCool74]

You can have an opinion, but that doesn't mean everyone will have same opinion with you.

.

And where did I give the impression that everyone must have the same opinion as mine?

And just gave my input and opinion on the situation and wanted to know others.

As I pointed out in my initial post, my intentions where not to try to undermine the staff around here or be disrespectful in any way.

I just gave my thoughts on the situation actually.

Angel replied back with a great post that really gave some insight as to what was planned from the beginning.

And no need to be so defensive with me because I do not agree with any and everything the staff does around here.

I definitely appreciate their effort greatly but that doesn't mean that I should agree or GET OUT!

Angel seemed ok with answering.

Why should you be so quick to defend?

 

[Chaos Raiden]

And where did I give the impression that everyone must have the same opinion as mine?

And just gave my input and opinion on the situation and wanted to know others.

As I pointed out in my initial post, my intentions where not to try to undermine the staff around here or be disrespectful in any way.

I just gave my thoughts on the situation actually.

Angel replied back with a great post that really gave some insight as to what was planned from the beginning.

And no need to be so defensive with me because I do not agree with any and everything the staff does around here.

I definitely appreciate their effort greatly but that doesn't mean that I should agree or GET OUT!

Angel seemed ok with answering.

Why should you be so quick to defend?

Ignore list.

 

[Angel]

Look at what is circled - just to show this includes me too. Other staff and Gold members remain unaffected by the edit change, but I figured it would only be right if I applied my own "punishment" to me as well.

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

I don't suggest banning, but I think it's worthy of an infraction. It shows a distinct lack of maturity and character on their part. If you post it, it's there for all the search engines and archive readers to see and people should understand that. It seems less harsh than taking away the edit button for all regular members at least.

 

[darkslayer13]

a good solution does not cause problems for more people than the problem it solves. taking away the edit button for any amount of time causes problems for all users. editing insulting posts only causes a problem for the person insulted by that post.

 

[Dark Drakan]

Bottom line is that we have tolerated people doing certain actions long enough. Everyone who has any forum know how knows that double posting isnt allowed and us having to merge them for you is a job we shouldnt have to do. Therefore now the option is suddenly not there maybe people wont take it for granted again when it returns and start using it for the purpose it was intended. Rather than those people abusing the system by doing such things as editing their trolling posts to seem innocent and like another member has overreacted.

It will return but we are disappointed in those people ive described above as they have behaved like children and its quite pathetic we had no choice but to resort to this sort of action. You all agreed to the rules when you signed up so abide by them or leave.

Heres the link so no-one has an excuse...

RULES

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Bottom line is that we have tolerated people doing certain actions long enough. Everyone who has any forum know how knows that double posting isnt allowed and us having to merge them for you is a job we shouldnt have to do. Therefore now the option is suddenly not there maybe people wont take it for granted again when it returns and start using it for the purpose it was intended. Rather than those people abusing the system by doing such things as editing their trolling posts to seem innocent and like another member has overreacted.

It will return but we are disappointed in those people ive described above as they have behaved like children and its quite pathetic we had no choice but to resort to this sort of action. You all agreed to the rules when you signed up so abide by them or leave.

Heres the link so no-one has an excuse...

RULES

i just thought i would respond to justice in my own special way XD