New development for Kyrie in DMC6?

[Ronin]

Didn't some leaks say she was running an orphanage?

If you want to make a non-combatant into a fighter, you're better off choosing Patty giving her family's magical lineage. Kyrie is fine as a non-combatant.

She doesn't have to be a fighter. Just find some ways of defending herself and the kids. Learn how to use a gun like Nero's Blue Rose.

 

[berto]

Didn't some leaks say she was running an orphanage?

No leaks, it's actual cannon. It's in the light novel prequel and probably in that giant archive ingame. They even have the names of the orphans.

 

[Ronin]

Everyone around him have ideas on giving Kyrie purpose in the next game? She never appeared in DMC5 only as a voice. Which saddens me.

She needs a lot of development, even though she's looking after the kids.

What about some corporation captures Kyrie to make Nero do what they want in exterminating demons? Maybe they'll inject some demon blood in her (at least half-breed).

 

[Morgan]

1. Just have her be a defensive/support character that learns how to cast barriers, augment healing abilities, etc. At this point it's kind of ridiculous that the series sans the first game has had Hellgates opening in human populaces and either the humans die from demons or they turn into demons. What about exploring what happens if Hellgate energy flows out and "grazes" a human, not enough to change them into a demon outright but altering them into being able to have powers? Do some Inhumans, Terrigen Mist type of thing, I don't know.
2. Do the above except have Kyrie attain that power for herself on purpose and don't demonize her (morally) for it. Seriously. The way this series has handled humans "getting out of their lane" and attaining the power that allows them to survive is totally ass-backwards. The only way human-adjacent characters get ahead in this series is by attaining power through circumstances outside of their control, usually birth or bloodline. Patty and Nina couldn't not be from Aeron's bloodline, Lady couldn't not be descended from a mortal priestess, etc. Nero, Dante, and Vergil have human blood in them but their demonic blood is way more important because reasons. All the other humans that get into rituals and purposely infuse themselves with demonic power are treated like villains, and their intentions made inherently villainous and irredeemable. Not even Credo was spared and he had the most understandable motivations of all. The worst crime he did was being silently complicit in things like the Ascension Ceremony and the Savior but he was deceived for that too by Sanctus exploiting him. That's a crime now?
3. Kyrie should still be affected by Credo's death. There's no reason why "not being able to save Credo" is solely a Nero hang-up like Kyrie wasn't right there and had a front row seat to Credo getting shanked by the Pope. Considering it was Agnus holding her hostage and kidnapping her that lured Nero and Credo to the Savior, then Credo's death and Nero's capture, then the activation of the Savior and the deaths of more innocent people, she should still be feeling metric F-tons of survivor's guilt and remorse for her inability to protect herself and thus becoming a liability to everyone she cares for and others besides. But instead it's like her mind got wiped even of Credo's presence and the entire series of events, so all she had in the 4th game is "I am still alive, right?" and making sure Nero doesn't feel bad about his arm and validating him. Then all she does is support Nero in 5 like it wasn't her effing brother that died. Like, yeah, nothing to do there. Saving things is purely a Nero function and not anything Kyrie could see herself doing because even she's aware of her own narrative helplessness and how little the plot expects from her. S'all Gucci.

 

[V's patron]

In an animated series, I'd settle for Kyrie becoming the manager of Nero's demon hunting business. She's in charge of interfacing with the clients, negotating with the government etc. Its a chance to explore Kyrie's character and allow some much needed agency/development. Outside of making her a fighter, your options are limited because DMC is an action based show that isn't good at non-action elements.

The anime had a good setup but squandered it. It lacked both style and substance so learning from its mistakes is recommended for future endeavors.

Technically Morrison could just be his manager but I never cared for him or Patty. Plus the goal is to make Nero less Dante-lite not more so not repeating Dante's life is theway to go.

PS- You could always give her a sexy makeover and teach her how to fight offscreen. It worked for Yuna in FF10/FF10-2 and she's a better version of Kyrie, Kairi from KH, Luna from FFXV etc.

Redirect Notice

Yuna

Daughter of High Summoner Braska. Honest and determined, Yuna embarks on a pilgrimage to obtain the Final Aeon and defeat Sin. Yuna is learning the mystical art of summoning aeons—powerful spirits of yore.Booklet description Yuna is a playable character in Final Fantasy X, and the main...

finalfantasy.fandom.com

.

PSS- I should probably get back to daydreaming/planning about my Jak and Daxter/FF10-2 fanfic.

 

[Morgan]

PS- You could always give her a sexy makeover and teach her how to fight offscreen. It worked for Yuna in FF10/FF10-2 and she's a better version of Kyrie, Kairi from KH, Luna from FFXV etc.

Literally every female character in the FF series and Kairi is better than Luna from FFXV. Even Rinoa. Lemme not get started on the salt towards how bootlegged Luna's character comes across.

I'm just gonna go back and finish taking notes.

 

[V's patron]

I'd probably add her to a Lady/Trish spinoff if they ever get one. Kyrie's problem as a character stem from her not having much of a personality outside of being "Nero's understanding girlfriend".

So having her interact with other characters beyond Nero is a good place to start.

 

[Ronin]

I'd probably add her to a Lady/Trish spinoff if they ever get one. Kyrie's problem as a character stem from her not having much of a personality outside of being "Nero's understanding girlfriend".

So having her interact with other characters beyond Nero is a good place to start.

That would work. Kyrie appearing in DMC: Ladies' Night!

It could hold the key to develop Kyrie into a character every DMC fan will love.

Can you imagine in some cutscenes, Nico, Trish & Lady take her out, give her some casual fashion to suit her.

 

[Morgan]

Did someone mention casual fashion?

The top left outfit on the first image should have been an option for the fourth game. The top left on the second image would be a good fit for her style, and it's a color we haven't seen on the other main characters. The bottom row of outfits on the third image could have been made into something workable for when she's in the city, and the second row is good for special occasions/home wear. Anything would be better than making her look like Not-Orihime and fueling all those "DMC4 = Bleach" comments.

 

[Ronin]

Did someone mention casual fashion?

The top left outfit on the first image should have been an option for the fourth game. The top left on the second image would be a good fit for her style, and it's a color we haven't seen on the other main characters. The bottom row of outfits on the third image could have been made into something workable for when she's in the city, and the second row is good for special occasions/home wear. Anything would be better than making her look like Not-Orihime and fueling all those "DMC4 = Bleach" comments.

i don’t see the second image. It’s blank.

 

[V's patron]

You could give her an exoskeleton suit like C.Viper. Granted someone would still have to teach her how to fight.

@Morgan the image you talked about looks like a combat outfit. I'm partial to the outfits on the bottom row, last image. The Orihime comparison came from the English voice actress but maybe she was cast because of the similiarities?

 

[Morgan]

i don’t see the second image. It’s blank.

That's weird. Image looks fine to me in the post *and* your quote of my post. Here's a link.

@Morgan the image you talked about looks like a combat outfit.

Uh, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Huge Text Incoming, not to you specifically.

I just think that outfit is neat and would work better for her than the shrink-wrapped dress she has by default, because the "long white ankle-length dress on a pure maiden with a ponytail" is generic (see: Luna). I get that the generic look is what they intended with Kyrie having no flaws and that she needs to read as "utterly likable, the heroes love her and the villains hate her" type of Mary Sue (even though it's stupid and actually contradictory, see below), but I expect better design. It still boggles me that her default dress allows her to run quickly to protect a child or run to Credo's aid in the beginning, but she's still a Damsel In Distress during the credits and requires Nero to save her from lesser demons in the whole runtime, because self-preservation is too much to ask for. That's stupid.

Her character is completely interchangeable with the other non-combatant maidens of the series: Kalina Ann is a "loving wife", "sweet girl, pure and innocent" (this was said toward Lady, but she's "just like [her] mother" so it counts), and a mere sacrifice and acceptable casualty for a man to become "a legend" (see also: that Priestess that Sparda sacrificed 2000 years ago who has no name or personality because she doesn't matter); Eva pretty much exists to die for her children and the nature of her sacrifice was downgraded in every game that mentioned her. No appealing personality traits are present as of 5 that would justify Sparda hooking up with Eva and it's debatable whether she has any "fire" of her own when she spends a good minute in DMC5 entrusting an 8 year old boy to be a "man". Even Lois Lane has "intrepid reporter" going for her to explain why Superman/Clark likes her so much.

Really. Kyrie, Kalina, and Eva could switch places in any of the games they've been in and nothing changes because they're just there for the other characters to love them and fight because of them, dead or alive. That's it. Eva is so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that popular conversation is on whether Sparda gained humanity because of her. Kalina is so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that killing her is proof that Arkham is Evil. Kyrie's so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that even Credo's fate was determined as whatever wouldn't change Kyrie's personality too much in ways that inconvenience Nero, because this Goddess-type, Ultra Good character developing any type of negativity towards the protagonist for understandable reasons? Can't have that. She's Ultra Good and Forgiving no matter how bad other people are to her, except for if Credo were a villain. She wouldn't forgive Nero for killing a villainous Credo, but forgives him for letting Credo die, which have equal net outcomes (Dead Credo). Nero's been hung up about his death for a decade now and Kyrie's totally fine with it and shows no resentment. Somehow that makes all the sense.

In terms of design, none of the women in 4 have outfits that would sensibly read as combat-ready, primarily because of tight spandex + leather pants, cleavage exposure + no bra, no pants / booty shorts + no panties (in Gloria's case) when their fighting demons requires they be highly mobile, perform gymnastics movements and flip around in the air without any wardrobe malfunctions, while the dudes have non-tight pants like normal people. And no one wears armor, not even Lady, even though she should be a normal human and was explicitly described as "born of weak flesh and blood", not being special, and thus would need protective wear but instead leaves her skin exposed, but it doesn't matter since the sex appeal of the character clearly overrides the function, at risk of contradicting the character as stated: If not a demon hunter, Lady is supposed to be a "mature business woman" to explain why she's not as prominent, but instead is dressed to go clubbing (the dance type, or the endangering baby seals type? You decide!) and not like a professional. The booty shorts and no bra makes her "assets" pop, and they put her and that outfit into combat situations anyway. Even with her DMC3 outfit being there for "moe" reasons, I can at least come up with the good facets of it in that she looks like she's dressed in a "Catholic Schoolgirl" outfit but the skirt is literally ammo, a.k.a. "Looks can be deceiving", "Don't underestimate her, she's not a little girl". And then the story for 3 did her dirty. And then in 4 she's a gold digger. And then in 5 she's nude fanservice and part of the Protect Vergil Squad just because Itsuno didn't like her putting down her dad like the rabid psychopath he was.

But I mean. Not just Lady got shafted. Gloria is supposed to be a high-ranking member of the Order but her debut is her straddling a demon, dropkicking a demon so the camera zooms in on her labia, she has a walk cycle resorting to awkward posture solely to exploit jiggle physics, and she sheathes her weapon along her thigh to make Nero avert his eyes. Her next introduction to Dante shows her going into camera view ass-first. Then this turns out to be a disguise for Trish, which is pointless as Sanctus immediately identifies Trish as Gloria even when she's not disguised. Compared to the guys of the Order who come off as important in their fields and fully covered, where Nero deviates from the usual Order design because he's a punk, Gloria looks like a typical exotic harlot who cheats her way into power since that's pretty much her plot. In a game meant to "appeal to women gamers". And then Trish also becomes nude fanservice in 5 and magics her clothes back on, meaning her nudity was pointless and there's no reason she should have been nude at all.

My dislike for what this series has turned into is totally low-key, you guys, I swear.

Anyway, Kyrie in the first image is still wearing an outfit that covers her from head to toe as her default outfit does but does it in different ways, gives her more mobility instead of being shrink-wrapped around her body, shows she's from the Order, still maintains a predominantly white palette, and overall just looks really nice.

DMC4 was otherwise a game where the extent of how an NPC woman looks and why they're there is "she's not necessary, but we added her anyway because she's sexy", and the Rusalkas were reused Kyrie nude models for the sole purpose of being erotic and mimicking titillating lesbian imagery but have no effect on either male character the imagery is used, on which also renders them less than pointless.

I'm just saying. Kyrie's default dress is awful. F That Dress. Does it even have a zipper? I hate it. If any woman in this series is allowed to have designs that contradict their character or show off their Peaches and Kitty, Kyrie can wear something slightly more combat ready, because her default dress sucks.

I'm partial to the outfits on the bottom row, last image. The Orihime comparison came from the English voice actress but maybe she was cast because of the similiarities?

Which means Kyrie was designed to be similar to Orihime to start with. Unmemorable, overly forgiving to those who hurt her, generally no flaws, well-endowed, "basically a goddess" but also powerless for some reason, there for Nero (Ichigo) to protect and be his Morality Pet, otherwise he'd be an asshole. According to the team behind these designs and characterizations, men are incapable of empathy and humanity on their own, and they need women to carry their humanity around for them and provide some STR boosts like they're a Dark Souls character.

Take it from Bingo himself:

Bingo: She was created almost as a goddess, so her lack of flaws means that she’s not very memorable. [laughs] She’s the type to comfort and forgive someone even if they do bad things. That’s about the extent of her relationship with Nero. “DMC 4” begins with him liking her, so it only made sense to make her utterly likable. As a cookie-cutter, admirable big sister-type, she wasn’t hard to write into the scenario. She’s basically the perfect Virgin Mary, so her design wasn’t difficult either. She had to be reasonably tall, sensual, and with huge breasts. That was all a matter of course. Her backstory, though, makes you feel sorry for her.

Bingo:
When I told the team that the nature of Nero and Kyrie’s love was that line, they finally got it. Nero protects the city because he loves Kyrie so much. I really wanted to create a Hollywood blockbuster kind of experience with “DMC 4”, and somehow, so did the rest of the team. [...] We wanted to make “DMC 4” neat, clean, and straightforward; your basic “damsel in distress” story.

Because it's somehow not contradictory to base a man's humanity on how he interacts with women who have to be "almost godlike" and "perfect Virgin Mary", when by default anyone being godlike excludes them from being human since being human requires actual flaws.

There was also a bit where Bingo described Nero as "without Kyrie, he'd basically be like Vergil" but describes a carelessness/apathy that's essentially Dante's character arc in 3 with no hint of irony. DMC3's whole plot is Dante is careless to others' plight until he meets Lady, who teaches him of what's important. That's it. That's his plot. He even says so in his own words. So pretty much every dude in this game has no internal moral code, somehow, possibly up to and including Sparda himself. I don't get it. It shouldn't be wrong for these women to be flawed but still loveable anyway and just as multifaceted as the dudes they admit are Two-dimensional Jackasses without them.

.... Did I mention I hate Kyrie's default dress?

:laugh:

 

[Ronin]

Yes you did @Morgan

Looking at the designs, makes me wish they did something to make Kyrie developed. She looks after kids, she's a singer, wonder if she would be a reporter like Lois Lane, even a doctor/nurse.

I would like to see a DMC version of a "Terragin Mist" somehow. Hope DMC6 can make that happen on Nero's side.

She'll possess healing abilities to help the wounded. Wish she can wield a rapier if she gets brainwashed by a new enemy.

 

[Morgan]

Flaws and conflict to her character can still be added to her even if she were a Healer. She doesn't need an explicitly combat weapon/power/type for that. Doctors and nurses themselves aren't generic cookie-cutter personalities capable of Only One Thing, which is obvious to the general person who lives in real life, including everyone here, and excluding Bingo and his ilk because they've earned the distinction. Hayao Miyazaki's speech on how the anime industry is rife with “Some people [...] interested only in themselves" and “humans who can’t stand looking at other humans" applies here for why Kyrie is so boring and unrealistic and not distinctive at all. Anime Tropes were a Mistake.

For a doctor or nurse or EMT to, say, save someone from a drug overdose, they have to know how certain chemicals interact with each other and the body they're in. Which also means they'd know how to cause a lethal complication and make that look like an accident. There are enough conspiracy theories around Medical Kidnapping (that is, intentionally inducing a coma in a patient for organ harvesting purposes), and enough Wrongful Death Lawsuits IRL to show that Healing Professions aren't infallible, and the people in them are considered capable of causing harm/death to someone they're expected to save by either negligence or purposeful act. Surgery itself is causing minor harm to prevent further harm down the road (see: amputations and other incisions). Not to mention the period in human history where bloodletting and leeches were considered viable medical care.

Now, if Kyrie weren't saddled with her Forgives All Evils personality, there'd be a good conflict on if her duty to Do No Harm overrides her personal feelings every single time, and moments where it might not.

Like. Vergil killed a bunch of people, cut off his own son's arm, and generally was a blight all two times he's been around Dante or Nero, with his personal feelings of inadequacy having far-reaching consequences on more than just those two people simply because he had the power to hurt other people outside of an immediate area of influence.

If he showed up to her doorstep bleeding out and she knew who he was, would she bring herself to save him? How would she know he's Redeemed and Totally Good Now? What if he changes his mind for a totally petty reason and goes back to his old ways? How much does she love Humanity to justify healing him if it means risking that other people might be hurt by his actions? Who cares if he's Nero's father? Does Nero's need to Have A Family to ease his own guilt override her and others' need for safety or some simple peace and quiet? Why does Nero helping himself feel better matter more than the fact that Kyrie will never have Credo in her life again? What makes Vergil more worthy of life and Credo not? Kyrie herself is already an orphan and Nero lived as an orphan as well for at least 20 years. He should be used to not having parents, and him having a Dad doesn't change that Kyrie herself won't have her parents again. Both Nero and Dante have experienced "Vergil being dead" for longer than they'd ever known the guy, so he shouldn't be missed. He's no different than a stranger to them. So maybe she vowed to save as many lives as possible but, hey, no one is perfect. She could be excused for letting this one slip. Better men have died for less.

And if she did allow Vergil to die, who in their right mind would judge her wrong for that? None of this series is actually built on giving villains second chances no matter how much the characters preach about humanity and innate goodness. They all end the same way. One Hero decides that the One Villain (or Many Villains) are simply Too Far Gone to reason with and that they'll never redeem themselves now or in the future, and that Hero becomes judge, jury, and executioner and delivers a death penalty to the bad guy or locks them up in confinement for life, taking the Utilitarian route and putting the villain out of the board to save further lives, and that's just what Justice and Saving the World looks like in this game.

We'd have a way different game in 4 if the voice in Nero's head echoed "Compassion.... give me more... Compassion!!" but that's not the game we got. That's not even the series we got. Nero decided Sanctus lacked Compassion and could never Love, therefore he needed to die and that was that. Dante swore on Sparda's name that "I will kill Mundus!" when Mundus only killed two people that he knew of by that point (Eva and Griffon). Arkham had only one known kill and Lady said her goodbyes and emptied her clip into his head. Arius has an undetermined kill count but Lucia still destroyed him. The same world that allows Dante/Nero/Lady/Lucia to kill off the villains with impunity can't be the same one that would turn Kyrie into a villain just because she [killed/let die] the guy that tried to commit genocide twice. And anyway, shouldn't Nero have the people he abandoned to the Qliphoth at the beginning of 5 on his conscience? Why doesn't he? Damn, ya gotta wonder.

 

[Ronin]

@Morgan

what about your Terragin Mist idea of it affects Kyrie and any other human with powers based on demons?

 

[Morgan]

That can be an idea for how she gets abilities, but it relies on the writers having functioning brains and realizing that Power is Power, no more and no less, and can be used for either good or evil depending on character. Possession of it, or ambition for it, doesn't condemn someone outright. For now they seem to be stuck on arbitrary ideals where Power Corrupts Absolutely but only on people they've decided are simply evil, but Nero, Dante, Trish, etc. have never been put in any moral dilemma or made to question if being powerful enough to save the world actually makes them capable of destroying it. The series just kind of runs on there being someone who's Worse and More Evil than the protagonists so they have someone to aim their power at to frame them as heroes.

This series also has a bizarre notion that telling the audience that "humans are special" and "humanity makes someone Good" are enough to cover that no human in this series is really worth a damn. The fact that Lady can reasonably fend for herself and kill demons armed with nothing but guns and was doing that since high school should have been taken to the conclusion that an armed force of people (like, say, the military) who intend to protect their loved ones from foreign invaders (which is what demons are) should be even stronger and more successful against the mindless demon horde, and certainly better at it than a literal teenage girl, but we got treated to some soldiers getting merc'd. Humans have to rely on people like Nero to 'kick demon ass', Dante trusts Trish and Lady to take on frickin Urizen, all because Lady is the only human allowed to be who she is and Trish and Nero are Approved Protagonists.

Then, if we take that at face value and say that having demonic power or a special bloodline like Dante/Nero/Lucia/Lady/Trish is what allows the heroes to win, then humans imbuing themselves with that power should reap a net benefit of "humans that can defend themselves and protect others", but instead we've been treated to multiple games where humans taking power is directly seen as a moral failure.

So this idea coming true involves the writers going against what the games have stood for so far, and I don't see that happening anytime soon though I'd appreciate if it did. There are a lot of plots they could explore but they largely abandon it for fanservice and rehashing the same nonsense we've already seen.

 

[V's patron]

@Morgan
Not a bad thing. It's easy to forgot that Orihime actually has a black belt.

It's cool bro. I enjoy your long diatribes even if they take a while to read.

@Ronin
Part of it is putting her in a plot where her character is explored and tested.

Maybe they should return to Fortuna? To explore what Fortuna is like after Sanctus fell.

 

[Morgan]

@Morgan
Not a bad thing. It's easy to forgot that Orihime actually has a black belt.

It's cool bro. I enjoy your long diatribes even if they take a while to read.

Kubo forgot everything Orihime is capable of too. See: The Entire 1000 Year Blood War arc.

I'm still mad he bothered hyping up Orihime's powers as something that "trespasses into God's territory" but then she was useless against Yhwhatshisface and couldn't fix Ichigo's bankai without a Tsukishima assist. The hell's the point of that?

Also, thanks. I feel less bad about longposting. :laugh:

 

[V's patron]

@Morgan honestly i gave up on Bleach after the Fullbring stuff and didn't care to finish it.

Funny thing is there's this FMA/Bleach fanfic called "The Flower Princess and the Alchemist" that changed my mind on Orihime. You should check it out if you got time.

No problem. We are both verbose fellows after all .

 

[windleopard]

That's weird. Image looks fine to me in the post *and* your quote of my post. Here's a link.



Uh, is that a good thing or a bad thing?

Huge Text Incoming, not to you specifically.

I just think that outfit is neat and would work better for her than the shrink-wrapped dress she has by default, because the "long white ankle-length dress on a pure maiden with a ponytail" is generic (see: Luna). I get that the generic look is what they intended with Kyrie having no flaws and that she needs to read as "utterly likable, the heroes love her and the villains hate her" type of Mary Sue (even though it's stupid and actually contradictory, see below), but I expect better design. It still boggles me that her default dress allows her to run quickly to protect a child or run to Credo's aid in the beginning, but she's still a Damsel In Distress during the credits and requires Nero to save her from lesser demons in the whole runtime, because self-preservation is too much to ask for. That's stupid.

Her character is completely interchangeable with the other non-combatant maidens of the series: Kalina Ann is a "loving wife", "sweet girl, pure and innocent" (this was said toward Lady, but she's "just like [her] mother" so it counts), and a mere sacrifice and acceptable casualty for a man to become "a legend" (see also: that Priestess that Sparda sacrificed 2000 years ago who has no name or personality because she doesn't matter); Eva pretty much exists to die for her children and the nature of her sacrifice was downgraded in every game that mentioned her. No appealing personality traits are present as of 5 that would justify Sparda hooking up with Eva and it's debatable whether she has any "fire" of her own when she spends a good minute in DMC5 entrusting an 8 year old boy to be a "man". Even Lois Lane has "intrepid reporter" going for her to explain why Superman/Clark likes her so much.

Really. Kyrie, Kalina, and Eva could switch places in any of the games they've been in and nothing changes because they're just there for the other characters to love them and fight because of them, dead or alive. That's it. Eva is so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that popular conversation is on whether Sparda gained humanity because of her. Kalina is so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that killing her is proof that Arkham is Evil. Kyrie's so Ultra Kind and Generically Good that even Credo's fate was determined as whatever wouldn't change Kyrie's personality too much in ways that inconvenience Nero, because this Goddess-type, Ultra Good character developing any type of negativity towards the protagonist for understandable reasons? Can't have that. She's Ultra Good and Forgiving no matter how bad other people are to her, except for if Credo were a villain. She wouldn't forgive Nero for killing a villainous Credo, but forgives him for letting Credo die, which have equal net outcomes (Dead Credo). Nero's been hung up about his death for a decade now and Kyrie's totally fine with it and shows no resentment. Somehow that makes all the sense.

In terms of design, none of the women in 4 have outfits that would sensibly read as combat-ready, primarily because of tight spandex + leather pants, cleavage exposure + no bra, no pants / booty shorts + no panties (in Gloria's case) when their fighting demons requires they be highly mobile, perform gymnastics movements and flip around in the air without any wardrobe malfunctions, while the dudes have non-tight pants like normal people. And no one wears armor, not even Lady, even though she should be a normal human and was explicitly described as "born of weak flesh and blood", not being special, and thus would need protective wear but instead leaves her skin exposed, but it doesn't matter since the sex appeal of the character clearly overrides the function, at risk of contradicting the character as stated: If not a demon hunter, Lady is supposed to be a "mature business woman" to explain why she's not as prominent, but instead is dressed to go clubbing (the dance type, or the endangering baby seals type? You decide!) and not like a professional. The booty shorts and no bra makes her "assets" pop, and they put her and that outfit into combat situations anyway. Even with her DMC3 outfit being there for "moe" reasons, I can at least come up with the good facets of it in that she looks like she's dressed in a "Catholic Schoolgirl" outfit but the skirt is literally ammo, a.k.a. "Looks can be deceiving", "Don't underestimate her, she's not a little girl". And then the story for 3 did her dirty. And then in 4 she's a gold digger. And then in 5 she's nude fanservice and part of the Protect Vergil Squad just because Itsuno didn't like her putting down her dad like the rabid psychopath he was.

But I mean. Not just Lady got shafted. Gloria is supposed to be a high-ranking member of the Order but her debut is her straddling a demon, dropkicking a demon so the camera zooms in on her labia, she has a walk cycle resorting to awkward posture solely to exploit jiggle physics, and she sheathes her weapon along her thigh to make Nero avert his eyes. Her next introduction to Dante shows her going into camera view ass-first. Then this turns out to be a disguise for Trish, which is pointless as Sanctus immediately identifies Trish as Gloria even when she's not disguised. Compared to the guys of the Order who come off as important in their fields and fully covered, where Nero deviates from the usual Order design because he's a punk, Gloria looks like a typical exotic harlot who cheats her way into power since that's pretty much her plot. In a game meant to "appeal to women gamers". And then Trish also becomes nude fanservice in 5 and magics her clothes back on, meaning her nudity was pointless and there's no reason she should have been nude at all.

My dislike for what this series has turned into is totally low-key, you guys, I swear.

Anyway, Kyrie in the first image is still wearing an outfit that covers her from head to toe as her default outfit does but does it in different ways, gives her more mobility instead of being shrink-wrapped around her body, shows she's from the Order, still maintains a predominantly white palette, and overall just looks really nice.

DMC4 was otherwise a game where the extent of how an NPC woman looks and why they're there is "she's not necessary, but we added her anyway because she's sexy", and the Rusalkas were reused Kyrie nude models for the sole purpose of being erotic and mimicking titillating lesbian imagery but have no effect on either male character the imagery is used, on which also renders them less than pointless.

I'm just saying. Kyrie's default dress is awful. F That Dress. Does it even have a zipper? I hate it. If any woman in this series is allowed to have designs that contradict their character or show off their Peaches and Kitty, Kyrie can wear something slightly more combat ready, because her default dress sucks.



Which means Kyrie was designed to be similar to Orihime to start with. Unmemorable, overly forgiving to those who hurt her, generally no flaws, well-endowed, "basically a goddess" but also powerless for some reason, there for Nero (Ichigo) to protect and be his Morality Pet, otherwise he'd be an asshole. According to the team behind these designs and characterizations, men are incapable of empathy and humanity on their own, and they need women to carry their humanity around for them and provide some STR boosts like they're a Dark Souls character.

Take it from Bingo himself:

Bingo: She was created almost as a goddess, so her lack of flaws means that she’s not very memorable. [laughs] She’s the type to comfort and forgive someone even if they do bad things. That’s about the extent of her relationship with Nero. “DMC 4” begins with him liking her, so it only made sense to make her utterly likable. As a cookie-cutter, admirable big sister-type, she wasn’t hard to write into the scenario. She’s basically the perfect Virgin Mary, so her design wasn’t difficult either. She had to be reasonably tall, sensual, and with huge breasts. That was all a matter of course. Her backstory, though, makes you feel sorry for her.

Bingo:
When I told the team that the nature of Nero and Kyrie’s love was that line, they finally got it. Nero protects the city because he loves Kyrie so much. I really wanted to create a Hollywood blockbuster kind of experience with “DMC 4”, and somehow, so did the rest of the team. [...] We wanted to make “DMC 4” neat, clean, and straightforward; your basic “damsel in distress” story.

Because it's somehow not contradictory to base a man's humanity on how he interacts with women who have to be "almost godlike" and "perfect Virgin Mary", when by default anyone being godlike excludes them from being human since being human requires actual flaws.

There was also a bit where Bingo described Nero as "without Kyrie, he'd basically be like Vergil" but describes a carelessness/apathy that's essentially Dante's character arc in 3 with no hint of irony. DMC3's whole plot is Dante is careless to others' plight until he meets Lady, who teaches him of what's important. That's it. That's his plot. He even says so in his own words. So pretty much every dude in this game has no internal moral code, somehow, possibly up to and including Sparda himself. I don't get it. It shouldn't be wrong for these women to be flawed but still loveable anyway and just as multifaceted as the dudes they admit are Two-dimensional Jackasses without them.

.... Did I mention I hate Kyrie's default dress?

:laugh:

DMC 4 was supposed to appeal to women? Where was that stated?