This fits in here:
Okay its not even a debate that DmC isn't all that great of a story as promised by NT or even close to their past works but now its being debated whether its better than the past DMC games.
Well I'm not here to discuss if that is the case but I will say this. DmC's story on its own is rather poorly written, incoherent, sloppy, inconsistent, and bad not just in dialogue (God no that was below average) but just as a whole.
I'll start it off with the plot holes.
Minor Plot hole #1: The Hunter...or Hunter(s). Why did Lilith mentioned that the Hunters not Hunter but HunterS will find Dante but only one was shown and it was stated that they were more of them (hell Lilith referred to them as a group) but after the first one none where shown afterwards. A really huge missed opportunity for this game's story and a minor contradiction.
MAJOR Plot hole #2: Why did it take Mundus so long to find Dante or even find out that he lives for 1) Dante himself stated that he is always thrown into Limbo for quite sometime and yet Mundus never figured out a punk with a sword who is constantly thrown into Limbo by HIS OWN demon minions and manages to fend them off like they were nothing. Really Mundus??? 2) Doesn't he have f*cking cameras everywhere that can drag people into Limbo for surveillance cameras and the fact demons see everything with them Mundus couldn't tell this guy with a sword that belongs to one his most if not most loyal former lieutenant but worst of all he has a screen that shows what those cameras and the news project in his room...the room he is ALWAYS in for the most part but yet never noticed Dante til recently and not because of them either 3) Dante for awhile goes to a club that Lilith HIS mistress Lilith owns and he is VERY infamous there so I'm all like the dafuq. So Mundus is finding about him NOW...or better yet that he was orphaned in a orphanage and has a HUGE and not just minor but HUGE history of crime and violence in the city and so Mundus who rules the world apparently should know about him and yet one day after 10 years from killing Eva and enslaving Sparda he goes "Oh...the Son of Sparda is alive" just like that....so now I'm like..
Jesus this is as bad if not worst than when Dante left the Sword of Sparda in the demon world but at least than you can justify it as Dante's kindness over thinking his way of thinking and it wasn't a plot hole. Either Mundus really don't rule the world, just suck at it, or wasn't paying attention when Dante is parading in his town with traffic signs and major hints saying "SON OF SPARDA HERE!!!! RIGHT IN THE OPEN!!! FIGHTING DEMONS IN LIMBO!!!! FAMOUS REBELLION SWORD FROM SPARDA!!! RANDOM PUNK EVERYONE, THE NEWS YOU OWN, THE SECURITY YOU OWN, AND THE CLUB YOUR B*TCH OWNS KNOW ABOUT ME!!!" and Mundus one day without even looking at the obvious hints just feels the Son of Sparda is alive......
Now those were just plot holes and there are plenty of other BS in this story that could be considered plot holes but to me aren't from a technical stand point just stupid sh*t.
Now onto missed opportunities/questioning the story.
Fail #1: Why would Sparda hide him, his wife, and family in a mansion in the beach side from the demon king and his army...not really that good really and not do crap about it in case they tried to looking for him which is pretty obvious they'll look for him?
Fail #2: How can they find Sparda and his family when they tried hiding but couldn't notice Dante when he clearly wasn't hiding and was out in the open...in a trailer park...on a pier?
Fail #3: How is Mundus afraid of Nephilim or is considered his only weakness or the thing that can kill him when regardless he has a hell gate that makes him immortal so whats the point of hyping up Dante and Vergil when Mundus can't be killed regardless and if his hell gate is gone then a Nephilim really isn't the only thing that can slay him then for trust me Mundus as a boss didn't show off anything impressive to say only this species can beat him?
Vergil: As Nephilim we are the only ones who can kill Mundus.
Later
Vergil: Mundus has a hell gate that makes him immortal so if we can shut it down (via my Yamato) he is mortal and we can slay him.
Dante: So as Nephilim we really can't kill him.
Vergil:..........shut up Dante.
Fail #4: How come killing Bob, a demon, granted him an Angel weapon and how come beating the Hunter, an highly skilled demon made for fighting unlike Bob and Poison...so says the story, didn't grant him a weapon (for Bob was taken down by a bullet, Hunter was impervious to that sh*t so he is clearly a better fighter and stronger demon than Bob but no demon weapon)?
Fail #5(not really a fail but a WTH): How come Dante has his sword hidden and can summon on his back it at will but Vergil must carry his sword around and in fact he is always shown holding it and most of all how come Vergil's sword can destroy the hell gate or was made to close the hell gate (its nice to see them reuse plot elements from DMC4 the one game every DmC-pro hate on for its story)?
Fail #6: How come Dante (even Vergil) was more invulnerable to pain despite being half demon and half angel compared to his half demon half human counterpart? Shouldn't being half demon and half angel...both beings above human strength and ability make him more OP not much less than half demon half human?
Fail #7: Why was his fight with Vergil gave him full white hair instantly (went from partial white to full white) and yet Vergil was born with white hair and Dante didn't? Don't give me the dominant genes crap for Dante was stronger Vergil and Vergil recently unlocked or achieved his full demonic power after losing to Dante.
Fail #8: Why were the pendants completely irrelevant to the plot if they were shown and not only shown but made a big deal of...I mean the pendants(well Dante's) were shown on the title screen and parading around as if it were significant but nothing happened? You can take them out and the overall story wouldn't change at all..hell even Vergil's Downfall wouldn't change and there they tried to remotely make it relevant. Having them (amulets not pendants) there would be as if DMC2 & DMC4 had them there and they didn't.
Fail #9: How come at their old home Dante was able to get the gifts/special weapons/abilities/gear their parents left them but Vergil who was their before Dante (hinted I think)..didn't get crap from his parents? Don't give me the Limbo excuse...for Dante wasn't dragged into there, Vergil and Kat send him there and Vergil apparently has ways of getting into Limbo as how would he have saved Kat in Limbo.
Fail #10: WHERE THE HELL ARE THE ANGELS??? For some big war going between them....somewhere...we sure as hell didn't see any angels. I'm surprised that Dante and Vergil didn't make a run into any angels (good, evil, or neutral). Its like while humans and the sons of Eva and Sparda were fighting their battles they just stayed in Heaven with their thumb stuck up their bums doing jack sh*t about it. Their was SOOOO much opportunities they could've been used as (prisoners of war in Mundus's penitentiary, wounded soldiers on the battlefield, twisted souls used by Mundus...would've been awesome to fight a dark angel boss would've made more sense getting a angel weapon from it than Bob...a demon, hell even members/guardian angels of the Order)..yet no...not even a special minor role in the universe/story like how demons have a role but no nothing they're there for the sake of being there.
Fail #11: What was in Vergil's data collection that it had to been saved? It doesn't matter for not only was it not answered or explored its made completely irrelevant by the end of the game.
Fail #12: Why does that penitentiary Mundus own have such low security? Based on what I've seen Dante busted into that place quite easily and it apparently harbors not just victims but other Nephilim and a guy who knows all of Mundus's secrets (Phineas) so you think it would have much better security or better yet why does Mundus keep people he would consider dangerous enough to lock away alive especially the Nephilims and Phineas or at least seal them away somewhere WHERE NO ONE can get to them...like Sparda....which leads me to another point.
Fail #13: How does Phineas GAIN SO MUCH INFO ABOUT MUNDUS despite being LOCKED AWAY? This is a problem as Phineas knows stuff not even Vergil who has agents and intel gatherers everywhere apparently. So one guy locked away in a prison...a pretty crappy one too, can gain more valuable info than a guy with a whole network resources?
Fail #14: Why did that floating statue....Nephilim..Asziel...forgot how to spell her name...unlock his Devil Trigger? Is this Crash Bandicoot? If so how did Vergil unlock his Devil Trigger?Another question...how come that Nephilim chick didn't look human while Dante and Vergil both looked human?
Fail #15: Why did Vergil get witch tim...I mean Bullet Time or slowed down time in that scene in the car when they're about to crash after the Trade but doesn't afterwards without any explanation? Since when did time slowed down in Limbo or can slow down in Limbo?
Fail #16: Why did Mundus create a world of stability when his plan was to harvest human souls? What harvesting human souls even do anyway?
Most of all..
Fail #17: Why wasn't the Order developed on or used a bit more....f*ck it...AT ALL!? I mean they're mentioned to be an organization of what I guess are humans who are out to overthrow the demon empire on Earth and work for Vergil and that is it and after that THAT IS IT. They're easily taken down by the demons and the SWAT team and made irrelevant like they never happened and to tell you the truth it felt like they never existed as they didn't do anything. We physically or literally don't see any other members or is mentioned of their works nor did they have any impact on the story. They were practically like the angels. They were virtually there to make Vergil more cooler or add more to him as a character or add more dramatic effect when he decides to leave them behind so we can judge Vergil but it DOESN'T F*CKING WORK as no attempt is made to make us care for the Order as there is NOTHING TO CARE about. They're the least most developed part of the game's "STRONG FOCUS ON NARRATIVE" that shouldn't have been. Jesus The Order of the Sword was more developed on in DMC4 than these guys who we know nothing about their works and effect on the overall story wasn't there even if NT tried it to be through Vergil.
These are just merely missed opportunities and show casings of Tameem's (he wrote it himself) writing skills.
Now onto characters.
Dante in DmC is basically Dante in DMC3. A party boy who just don't give a crap and have no purpose in life but to party and go crazy and doesn't take things seriously but DmC pushed this notion to the extreme. In DmC, in the beginning Dante was literally 10x more of a wild party boy than DMC3 Dante he went out drank, caused fights, had TONS of casual sex with random strippers/prostitutes and fought demons too. He was that douchebag at the party that almost everyone hated (or loved if you were chick turned on by sexy a$$holes) and was an overall juvenile delinquent with a track record. DMC3 Dante though he loved partying he only did out of boredom and doesn't like being bored. He wants excitement but nothing in his life was exciting and later tries to start up a job/career/his shop for random business (usually mercenary work) to find this excitement. He wasn't a party boy like DmC Dante he just wanted excitement in his life...don't we all. DMC3 Dante really speaks to the gamer as we play games to find some sort of excitement especially stylish action games so we can easily relate to DMC3 Dante. Plus it suits his tragic past really well as possibly his constant lust for excitement and fuddyduddy attitude is used as a way for him to get over his tragic past of his mother's death and the fact he learns that his brother is alive but potentially evil probably. So Dante wasn't a juvenile delinquent, or really a crazy part boy but some dude who wanted to get over his past with excitement the same way we play games to unwind and unload and forget about most of our troubles. From a GAMING NARRATIVE this works much better than making the protagonist an unlikeable prick (Tameem himself stated this Dante is meant to be..MEANT TO BE an a$$hole) not just to the player but even various other characters in the game's narrative because he doesn't remember his past and was tortured by demons since he was young but from a psychological standpoint Dante's character can be anything (he can be insane or like how he was in the first DmC trailer, suffer from hysteria or phobia, or even conspirator, but a partying a$$hole who doesn't care and doesn't question the unnormal or supernatural seems to be what Tameem chose to do).
Now as progression of character. DmC's came off as sloppy when it came to Dante. They tried to throw in the whole revenge plot like they did in DMC1 as a way to make Dante care or slowly progress him into caring and developing as a character and went with it from there. However, it failed for after they threw it in there but making him change his own agenda of revenge to it being about freedom and justice but went about it so poorly to the point his whole development felt too structured and written in a step by step process on how to make an unlikeable character likeable.
Step 1: Make him an uncaring, don't take anything seriously party boying a$$hole.
Step 2: Introduce his long lost brother and make him learn about his past and the memories he forgotten.
Step 3: Have him develop a vendetta against main antagonist
Step 4: Make him have a relationship with chick who will make him question his humanity
Step 5: Make him develop a sense of justice from getting a tough decision (killing the child or not killing the child)
Step 6: Make him care about humanity because of one girl being put in danger
Step 7: Now he cares about humanity make him fight his brother and later question his humanity..end game.
They must've f*cked up somewhere after Step 3....maybe step 4. Yes Kat, his interactions with her was supposed to help develop his character to care about mankind but those felt lackluster. They only had like 4 quick conversations (not all of the were character building conversations) and even then it would be enough for him to care about Kat not all of a sudden change his goal of revenge to a goal of justice/freedom when in reality, he and his brother's actions caused more human casualties than Mundus even thought of doing. I wasn't convinced at all he threw away his goal for revenge for freedom because of one girl. It did work out a bit for when he decided to fight Vergil but WHY THE FLYING F*CK DID IT TAKE KAT to have Dante not kill his own brother. Jesus DMC3 Vergil was about to unleash the Apocalypse on mankind and Dante there tried to save him cause they're blood and brothers...something DmC Dante said (cause we're brothers afterall). Practically throwing away DmC Dante's relationship building with Vergil over the course of the game. That ruins DmC Dante's character development in DmC versus DMC3. Now lets take a quick look at DMC3 Dante...that Dante never said he CARED about MANKIND now did he, he embraced his humanity (as stated in DMC4) but if anything he didn't care much if mankind was thrown into an everlasting hell for the overall story wasn't developed or was leading us to think that way he if anything developed a SENSE OF RESPONSIBILITY. Before he thought it was only about him and his own family problems that he tries to either run away from or fix but doesn't concern others. After seeing Lady, who too was like him in this criteria he realized that his family problems were negatively affecting others, its his family problems that Vergil, his brother, unleashed Temen-ni-Gru upon the world, its his family problem that Lady suffered because her father went bat-sh*t crazy craving Sparda's, his father, power, and its due to his family problems that the world was about to thrown into chaos because he and his brother's petty rivalry led to Arkham obtaining HIS mother's perfect amulet. Before he was only in this for the fun and excitement to see what Vergil was up to..he wasn't fully aware of the full issue but when he did he soon "realized was important" and that was taking responsibility of his own family problems and soon maturing to an adult who would pick up his father's legacy, a legacy he ignored because either of some grudge against his father for causing all of these problems or wasn't for him.
Vergil......nope....forget ruining Vergil in the image of DMC1/3 Vergil this Vergil as a character is a rather poorly written character on his own. Its mostly of Downfall, where his character from the main story is contradicting now all of a sudden he cares about Kat despite trying to abandon her before then he complains about his mom loving Dante more than him because Dante is better than him. Now he comes off as petty and a big baby really blaming his defeat to Dante on his mother and tied into the comic his hatred (cause calling your own mom a whore doesn't signify hatred) for his mom makes no sense nor was it ever properly developed or comes off as pathetic. Vergil's character over the course of the story and Downfall just make him seem more pathetic and whiney. Its practically like his DMC3 counterpart because both want to achieve something selfish despite who gets hurt. However, Vergil in DMC3 managed to have honor and some values. This Vergil is dirty, cheap, manipulative, though good traits as a villain but are used so wrong to the point he becomes unlikeable even as a villain. Plus people say this Vergil is better because he have clear motifs unlike his DMC3 self who wants power for the sake of power well..WRONG.
First of the 2 Vergils have different motivations for their actions and ones motivations/reasoning must be higher to meet the logic behind your goals or motivations. DmC Vergil wanted to rule mankind because he viewed them similar to Mundus or felt he was above them....problem is this makes no sense for the reason is that he didn't develop a reason to want to rule them or feel that they can't rule themselves for here is why. A) He grew up in an age runned by Mundus so there was no indication during his life time humans can't lead themselves if Mundus was running the shots all along B) He has no virtual experience or even a hint to want to develop this goal as he personally never witness the true errors of mankind. I mean he lived a peaceful life and it was f*cked up by demons not humans. At Mundus who has been around for over 4000 years have witnessed the errors of mankind and wanted to bring order. There was no hint that Vergil viewed them the same until the end and there was tension or build up...its just "I wanna rule". If it is because "I'm a Nephilim so I'm above them so I must rule them its my destiny"..which frankly due to Downfall I think it was just so. At least with DMC3 Vergil, he did have a bad experience that showed how powerless he was to protect his mother and brother and the feeling of powerlessness drove him to want more power to the point he shun his humanity. It may not have been directly in your face...VERGIL WANTED MORE POWER TO MAKE UP FOR NOT BEING ABLE TO PROTECT HIS MUMMY!!!! but Arkham taunted him on it.
The 2 Vergil's wanted different things.
DMC3 Vergil just more power.
DmC Vergil to rule mankind.
DmC Vergil's goals are much higher so his reasoning and logic must be set a higher precipitate than DMC3 Vergil whose implied reason was enough to justify him just wanting to become like his father. DmC Vergil wants to rule mankind because he think he should. By DF he only wanted power just to meet this goal.
Lastly, Kat.....man I'm tired. Yes Kat is a weak female protagonist. She is just to help boost up and empower the main male protagonist and people go on about how she is not oversexualized like Trish and Lady in DMC4 when they tend to ignore how often she bends over, how extremely short her jeans are for no reason, and implied rape signifying to have a female protagonist they need to be physically or sexually abused. Being oversexualized doesn't mean just having big tits you know, Kat was JAILBAIT...skinny, fragile girl (man she look a doll made from sticks and twigs) with a rather exposing top meant to be a more subtle piece of ass.
Now back to her character, as a defining female character in an action game especially DMC she is much below Trish, Lady, and even Lucia. I'll put her on the same level as Kyrie (probably lower as Kyrie isn't treated as Jail Bait) for granted unlike Kyrie she was useful at the beginning...THE BEGINNING but Kyrie did bring Nero his sword and risked her life to save a kid but Kyrie isn't a medium, psychic, or demon hunter. The fact is she did something not of her jurisdiction or power that kind of put her as a likeable character she was practically no different than the tons of civilians being slaughtered and massacred by the demons but regardless she risked her life to save a boy when she could've did nothing and have Nero or Credo (who were next to her) do it. Though Kat was useful in helping Dante and Vergil halfway in her character is downgraded to Kyrie levels, a girl who needed saving by the main protagonist and was only there to serve the development of the main protagonist. She didn't even get her own character arc and all of her actions were done in benefit to be used as substances for Dante or Vergil's character building arcs. She barely developed as a character, scratch that she didn't develop at all. We heard her backstory and after that became a damsel in distress and forgotten til the end and the thing is she was poorly put in there for a rather selfish purpose (like a majority if not all of the Sonic cast) to be a new female protagonist, because all the past DMC games did that, which is to used to be build Dante's character and that is it. Hell the story would work fine WITHOUT her and I think she is what bring the story down. I find Dante coming to gripes with his own humanity and questioning himself through his own actions and their effects as well as him finding himself in the world and developing a sense of responsibility rather than developing a care for mankind because of one girl (shallow and done plenty of times before and much better too) it would've worked much better with Vergil's who want to rule mankind because he feels he has to which will conflict with Dante who wants to protect them and their freedom, the freedom he lost, because he feels he must that its his responsibility.
Worst of all they tried to emulate DMC4's ending with Kyrie and Nero (though not as romantic) but its the same the main character (Nero/Dante) starts to question his humanity and the female lead (Kyrie/Kat) reassures him as a human and welcomes him into the human race. However, with DMC4 it works better as Kyrie knows Nero much longer and much better than Kat has known Dante and at the beginning Dante came off as an a$$hole to Kat and she even shown disliking to him at the beginning and worked with him to make sure he compromises and works with them then they have one or two meaningful conversation and some interaction..but I digress...DmC unlike DMC1, DMC2, & DMC3 and hell even DMC4, the story would've been much better without the leading female (Kat).
Anyway...I've typed too much so now I must leave. Take it as you will.
Hell I could go on with the game's very terrible dialogue and pointless moments (hyping up the Dreamrunner for it to go nowhere).
Evident this Tameem's first attempt at writing as the other 2 games (Enslaved and Heavenly Sword) were written by PROFESSIONAL writers who scrapped Tameem's original script because they were terrible. The same chick who wrote Heavenly Sword wrote Tomb Raider and it shows. If Capcom wanted great writing they should've contacted them not this failure of a company (narrative as their strong point my ass).
