HailTheKing
Battousai The Manslayer
Agreed! Nice move from Crapcom! :shifty:
MAJOR SPOILERS! ENDING SHOWN HERE
- Thread starter SonofMundus
- Start date
Agreed! Nice move from Crapcom! :shifty:
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
Now if only they won't make a stupid move again and market the true ending like what happens to Asura's wrath......
Martius
SSSmokin!
Remind me, who Vergil used as sacrifce?
Gbraga
Well-known Member
Ok, so now that I slept and got over the ending, I'll give my 2 cents on it, please like if you agree.
So, the build up to the fight is great, because it raises questions about human nature and how we should work it out in order to achieve peace, Vergil represents Thomas Hobbes, that believes that the human nature is corrupt and evil, so in order to achieve peace and maintain order, we need a solid state directly acting upon our society, and he calls that the Leviathan, while Dante, in the other hand, represents Rousseau, that believes that the human nature is good (and exemplifies with a child's innocence), and that the state of society that may or may not corrupt them. This is a GREAT discussion and I love that it's being raised by a videogame, huge props to Tameem for that.
But then comes the after fight ending and throws it all away when Dante stabs Vergil like a mad man, Vergil admits defeat and Dante becomes our protector and fanboys and fangirls have nerdgasms with him and Kat possibly becoming a couple, it's just too bland, too straightforward, in a way that it invalidates the discussion beyond "#TEAMDANTE" and "#TEAMVERGIL", so what I'd do would have a physical object of their conflict, like a power core Mundus uses to control society, and Vergil wants to take over that (his very own Leviathan) to maintain order and peace for mankind, while Dante believes that humans will end up just fine and we don't need an opressing power guiding us, so he wants to destroy the power core, then their conflict happen, they fight, and both during and after the fight Vergil gives GOOD REASONS for his point of view, and maybe even a twist involving humans in what happened to their parents, making Dante question himself. Dante beats Vergil and gets to the core, and he's hesitant, he's not so sure anymore about what's the right thing to do, and then we have this open ending (or they can end it with Dante destroying the core, but make he question himself first!). The way I see it, the best way to make your players wonder about the conflicts you proposed is to have the character they impersonate question it himself. Dante not even thinking twice about it renders all the discussion useless. Had he doubted himself in the end, even if he did destroy such power core (just like stating that he doesn't know if he did the right thing or whatever) you will raise this great discussion about human nature, what defines a dictatorship and the value of freedom, which would make for an amazing ending with months and months of discussion (that wouldn't even achieve a final answer) over the themes themselves, instead of just the superficial "what did you think of that scene when Dante stabbed Vergil??".
In the end, it was still a great ending if you consider all the build up as part of the ending, but if you just consider the post-fight scene as the ending, you'll get something very bland and disappointing, lacking the final "punch".
So, the build up to the fight is great, because it raises questions about human nature and how we should work it out in order to achieve peace, Vergil represents Thomas Hobbes, that believes that the human nature is corrupt and evil, so in order to achieve peace and maintain order, we need a solid state directly acting upon our society, and he calls that the Leviathan, while Dante, in the other hand, represents Rousseau, that believes that the human nature is good (and exemplifies with a child's innocence), and that the state of society that may or may not corrupt them. This is a GREAT discussion and I love that it's being raised by a videogame, huge props to Tameem for that.
But then comes the after fight ending and throws it all away when Dante stabs Vergil like a mad man, Vergil admits defeat and Dante becomes our protector and fanboys and fangirls have nerdgasms with him and Kat possibly becoming a couple, it's just too bland, too straightforward, in a way that it invalidates the discussion beyond "#TEAMDANTE" and "#TEAMVERGIL", so what I'd do would have a physical object of their conflict, like a power core Mundus uses to control society, and Vergil wants to take over that (his very own Leviathan) to maintain order and peace for mankind, while Dante believes that humans will end up just fine and we don't need an opressing power guiding us, so he wants to destroy the power core, then their conflict happen, they fight, and both during and after the fight Vergil gives GOOD REASONS for his point of view, and maybe even a twist involving humans in what happened to their parents, making Dante question himself. Dante beats Vergil and gets to the core, and he's hesitant, he's not so sure anymore about what's the right thing to do, and then we have this open ending (or they can end it with Dante destroying the core, but make he question himself first!). The way I see it, the best way to make your players wonder about the conflicts you proposed is to have the character they impersonate question it himself. Dante not even thinking twice about it renders all the discussion useless. Had he doubted himself in the end, even if he did destroy such power core (just like stating that he doesn't know if he did the right thing or whatever) you will raise this great discussion about human nature, what defines a dictatorship and the value of freedom, which would make for an amazing ending with months and months of discussion (that wouldn't even achieve a final answer) over the themes themselves, instead of just the superficial "what did you think of that scene when Dante stabbed Vergil??".
In the end, it was still a great ending if you consider all the build up as part of the ending, but if you just consider the post-fight scene as the ending, you'll get something very bland and disappointing, lacking the final "punch".
VergilNeroDante
Well-known Member
Any your the one getting all bent outta shape dude, get over it. You didn't have to respond but you rather enrage unto others because they didn't like your so called "masterpiece" of a reboot. It might be irrelevant to you but I find it quite humorus actually.
Sieghart
"Plough the lilies"
The build up in DmC's final ending is definitely good and they made Vergil reasonable enough or they show what Vergil in DMC 3 really wants in this Vergil. I also like the conflict of ideals between dante and vergil but in the end, there is no right between them. Humanity will always have conflict whether we are free nor we being ruled because that is what the human nature is.
I hope Vergil redeems himself and at least beat dante once or twice if there will be a DmC 2. I don't honestly see how vergil lose here when have more control to his power and "assuming" that he have a original devil form. Saying because of emotions? That's nothing more than Deus ex machina. That's just me.
I hope Vergil redeems himself and at least beat dante once or twice if there will be a DmC 2. I don't honestly see how vergil lose here when have more control to his power and "assuming" that he have a original devil form. Saying because of emotions? That's nothing more than Deus ex machina. That's just me.
VergilNeroDante
Well-known Member
Do you have proof of this good sir?
Blacknerd
Well-known Member
To me it was vergils way of leaving. He literally pulled a I must go now my people need me. Instead of dante booting him away or someone pulling him into Hell. So im wondering what the ef hes going to do now. As in 3 he just let himself go and in this he literally walked into hell. For both Vergils they have no reason to be in hell other than accepting who they are or fighting to survive. I mean honestly this vergil had more of an option to stay but he saw that he had no real place. As he mentioned to dante. You(we) arent human. Thats why dante is like wtf do I do with myself now
Also I dont see them as a couple. They even noted that long ago. Shes the part that makes him human the part that makes him who he is. Same as trish they never became a "couple" just two beings with a deeper connection.
Thats what I think anyway
-BN unrustled
Also I dont see them as a couple. They even noted that long ago. Shes the part that makes him human the part that makes him who he is. Same as trish they never became a "couple" just two beings with a deeper connection.
Thats what I think anyway
-BN unrustled
crush
Well-known Member
In the manga he went on a killing spree on the guild which was friendly to Dante.
He is no doubt damn EVIL. And wearing bandages on his face is look just like a psycho no matter what.
Alittleacorn
Smile it confuses people
I know full well what I'm talking about, I don't need you to clarify otherwise.
I did, just proves why Capcom should never make a Devil May Cry 5. I'm just glad I'm never going to have any kids. @_@
But oh what fun we have to look forward to these next few months. Still, what ever ways the ending could've gone down, some fans would've complained regardless. Personally I wouldn't have minded an epilogue though, that would've wrapped things up better. I don't think it's a bad ending, it just needed a little more to give you closure.
One thing I did like though was that it didn't end all gung-ho. It went for a more quieter ending instead of Dante preparing it duke it out with some demons. That and I'm interested to see how things with Vergil and Dante go in the future.
But yeah, whether that guy was playing on easy or not, Vergil's fight could've been done with being a little longer. Who knows, maybe if people make enough noise we'll get a Mass Effect 3 result and they'll add something on at the end. I'd be open to it personally. ^_^
DAT GIF!!! May I ask what you used to create the GIF? Be it a website or some type of application, I really want to know
I didn't make it, got it from this thread. ^^
http://www.ninjatheory.com/forums/showthread.php?4783-Everybody-Loves-Vergil
By avoiding the internet for a couple of weeks, or disconnecting the entire internet completely. I would :lol:
Being serious, I don't know. I think they'll wait for full reviews on the game first, because seeing only the ending doesn't count much for anything. For all we know we might feel a little different afterwards on playing the whole game.
darkmanifest
Unleash the blood
...you know, I think I'm going to literally end up writing an essay about everything this ending just failed at achieving from a moral and thematic standpoint. But I'm going to hold off until I see an entire walkthrough, including Vergil's DLC, just to be absolutely certain the writers tripped up as badly as it looks like they did. The one thing I expected NT to do fantastically with this reboot is the story, because they certainly couldn't do any worse than the simplistic melodrama of previous entries. Or so I thought. Please, may the walkthroughs be better than what I just witnessed.
Martius
SSSmokin!
Hm i did not read manga, i was refering only do DMC3 because i played it. I agree, Vergily is evil, but after his lost fight with Dante,he took it with honor.
zarion
Well-known Member
Gbraga, are you done creaming yourself to pseudo-intellectual psychological debate that has been repeated endlessly to the point that it is almost a cliche these days?
Dante running Vergil through with his sword mirrors the demonic and ruthless nature of Mundus and serves as a reminder that neither of them are human, not even a tiny bit.
One might even question if they're angels at all, seeing how they barely have any angelic traits, yet have heaps of demonic ones.
Maybe a sequel will expand on this in the future.
Also, note that Vergil goes to the Demon World by his own volition, meaning that there is something there that he wants, the Vergil DLC is going to be crucial to get all the pieces of the puzzle.
Dante running Vergil through with his sword mirrors the demonic and ruthless nature of Mundus and serves as a reminder that neither of them are human, not even a tiny bit.
One might even question if they're angels at all, seeing how they barely have any angelic traits, yet have heaps of demonic ones.
Maybe a sequel will expand on this in the future.
Also, note that Vergil goes to the Demon World by his own volition, meaning that there is something there that he wants, the Vergil DLC is going to be crucial to get all the pieces of the puzzle.
Gbraga
Well-known Member
How is a debate relevant to the current state of society and forms of government "cliche"? Seriously? Are you one of those people who "hates politics"?
What's pseudo-intellectual about something you learn (or should learn) in high school?
CheeseKao
Lord Cheesington
He's honorable only as a fighter but not as a person.