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Is the Masked man really Vergil?

Lionheart1991 said:
I don't know what Vergil will be like in this game. I doubt he'll be exactly like in DMC3, and that he's just using the order to increase his power. It's Ninja Theory who are in charge of the story, after all.
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aaah but its like loki, or two face or venom. no matter how they tell the story hes always a villain
 
darkslayer13 said:
the original Venom was not a Villain the entire time:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Edward_Brock_(Earth-616)
and Loki is currently on the same side as Thor in the comics:
http://marvel.wikia.com/Loki_Laufeyson_(Earth-616)
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well played i see a fellow comic book fan :D but you see my point. Vergil is a villain, no matter what universe you put him in hes still a villain. he may be good for a while, he may deviate between the two at some point or he may even become and anti villain at one point. buuuuut he is still a villain.
 
788Masri said:
well played i see a fellow comic book fan :D but you see my point. Vergil is a villain, no matter what universe you put him in hes still a villain. he may be good for a while, he may deviate between the two at some point or he may even become and anti villain at one point. buuuuut he is still a villain.
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Who said that he must be a villain or antagonist ??? this is supposed to be a "Re-imagining" of DMC series in a Ninja theory way so they don't have to follow any type of traditional rule as you're insisting
 
Donte said:
Who said that he must be a villain or antagonist ??? this is supposed to be a "Re-imagining" of DMC series in a Ninja theory way so they don't have to follow any type of traditional rule as you're insisting
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fair point they could easily change the basis of Vergil entirely if they wanted. buuut i dont think so, i mean i think the brother conflict angle is just too awesome to pass off and im pretty sure theyll keep Vergil as an antagonist, perhaps not in this game but maybe future instalments, which would be awesome as wed bee able to hopefully see why Vergil ends up the way he does rather than have to speculate on what he says every now and then...but only time will tell
 
788Masri said:
fair point they could easily change the basis of Vergil entirely if they wanted. buuut i dont think so, i mean i think the brother conflict angle is just too awesome to pass off and im pretty sure theyll keep Vergil as an antagonist, perhaps not in this game but maybe future instalments, which would be awesome as wed bee able to hopefully see why Vergil ends up the way he does rather than have to speculate on what he says every now and then...but only time will tell
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Hmm maybe but this game seems to be more focused on developing New Dante's Character so vergil may not even appear in this game
 
788Masri said:
well played i see a fellow comic book fan :D but you see my point. Vergil is a villain, no matter what universe you put him in hes still a villain. he may be good for a while, he may deviate between the two at some point or he may even become and anti villain at one point. buuuuut he is still a villain.
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1. Vergil has always been an anti-villain. an anti-villain is a character that does evil things but has some not evil traits.(honor and morality, a sympathetic backstory and motive etc.) or a character that is forced to do evil actions. Vergil remains honorable and avoids doing any harm that does not contribute to his goal and Nelo Angelo had no free will.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfAntiVillains
and for the explaination of how Vergil fits in this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DevilMayCryVillains

2. at the end of DMC3 Vergil no longer had any desire to fight Dante or gain power if he had not been controlled by Mundus he would have become an anti-hero like Dante and probably would have been closer to a pure hero than Dante.

3. Vergil's motive for seeking power was his mother's death. in DmC the twins did not know their mother (we know Dante didn't and there is no reason to think that Vergil did if Dante didn't). so Vergil's motive for seeking power does not exist in DmC. Ninja Theory seems to understand enough about Devil May Cry to know that Vergil is not a pure villain so i doubt they would turn him into one and there has not been a single theory suggested by anyone for why Vergil would seek power in DmC other than random evil. remaining mostly good would actually be more consistent with Vergil's true character than seeking power without a reason. without a motive the role that fits Vergil the most is as an anti-hero. they would probably make him a very dark example of one because that fits the direction they are going in but there is still no reason to think that he would betray the Order if the is their leader.
 
darkslayer13 said:
2. at the end of DMC3 Vergil no longer had any desire to fight Dante or gain power if he had not been controlled by Mundus he would have become an anti-hero like Dante and probably would have been closer to a pure hero than Dante.
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I'm hoping NT will make Vergil like this.

I think he'll be an anti-hero though. It would be just too cliche for Vergil to betray Dante. It also seems too dark for Vergil's character. If he's truly honorable, then betrayal wouldn't even be a choice for him to make. Just my two cents.
 
darkslayer13 said:
1. Vergil has always been an anti-villain. an anti-villain is a character that does evil things but has some not evil traits.(honor and morality, a sympathetic backstory and motive etc.) or a character that is forced to do evil actions. Vergil remains honorable and avoids doing any harm that does not contribute to his goal and Nelo Angelo had no free will.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AntiVillain
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SlidingScaleOfAntiVillains
and for the explaination of how Vergil fits in this:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Characters/DevilMayCryVillains

2. at the end of DMC3 Vergil no longer had any desire to fight Dante or gain power if he had not been controlled by Mundus he would have become an anti-hero like Dante and probably would have been closer to a pure hero than Dante.

3. Vergil's motive for seeking power was his mother's death. in DmC the twins did not know their mother (we know Dante didn't and there is no reason to think that Vergil did if Dante didn't). so Vergil's motive for seeking power does not exist in DmC. Ninja Theory seems to understand enough about Devil May Cry to know that Vergil is not a pure villain so i doubt they would turn him into one and there has not been a single theory suggested by anyone for why Vergil would seek power in DmC other than random evil. remaining mostly good would actually be more consistent with Vergil's true character than seeking power without a reason. without a motive the role that fits Vergil the most is as an anti-hero. they would probably make him a very dark example of one because that fits the direction they are going in but there is still no reason to think that he would betray the Order if the is their leader.
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sorry but i have never and will never see DMC Vergil as an anti hero. just because you have SOME standards when you commit murder and plan a mass genocide doesnt redeem you. in the end the actions speak for themselves. Vergil kills innocents, tries to kill his brother and attempted to open the gateway to hell to gain power even though he knew it would lead to millions dieing. he is a sad example of someone trying to be what they werent. he wanted to be just like his father, but by trying he threw away his fathers most powerful asset. his humanity. as such i can never see him as anything more than something to sympathise with. if he is in DmC i hope they flush out his character a bit more as he really does intrigue me.
 
788Masri said:
sorry but i have never and will never see DMC Vergil as an anti hero. just because you have SOME standards when you commit murder and plan a mass genocide doesnt redeem you. in the end the actions speak for themselves. Vergil kills innocents, tries to kill his brother and attempted to open the gateway to hell to gain power even though he knew it would lead to millions dieing. he is a sad example of someone trying to be what they werent. he wanted to be just like his father, but by trying he threw away his fathers most powerful asset. his humanity. as such i can never see him as anything more than something to sympathise with. if he is in DmC i hope they flush out his character a bit more as he really does intrigue me.
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i didn't say that the original Vergil was an anti-hero i said that he is likely to become one. many anti-hero characters were once anti-villain characters so it wouldn't be odd for Vergil to become one. he lost his reason to be a villain but still has a reason to be a hero (he wasn't exactly fond of demons even as Dante's enemy). there are pure heroes who committed worse sins as villains before becoming good.
 
well in the end theres no way of knowing who the man is. we could all guess Vergil, but even if he is in the game he could be Mundus's assistant for all we know. tho i have a sinking feeling the reveal will surprise me no matter what.
3OFvy.png
 
An anti-hero is just a hero without being all 'sweetness and light', without being the typical 'perfect' hero with infinite endurance and empathy. In the more extreme examples of anti-hero characters you might get one who is misanthropic, or has some major flaws, or who has committed wrongful acts and attempted to redeem themselves, but still does the 'right thing'. From what I know of Vergil he is not an anti-hero in the slightest. Dante is closer to being one. While it could be interesting to see how someone might make an anti-hero of Vergil in a reboot, it's not - and has never really been - what he 'is' as a character. He does not have heroic aspirations, or if he does, they're twisted so much they are beyond all recognition of being heroic and might as well not be. He is self-serving, which is the antithesis of a hero, who sacrifices or fights for others and not himself.

I can only imagine this new Vergil - if it is indeed he - will be the same. Or - that he will begin with good intentions, and become corrupt, (because we have not yet been shown exactly HOW Vergil starts down the path of being 'villainous' or selfish).
 
Lexy said:
An anti-hero is just a hero without being all 'sweetness and light', without being the typical 'perfect' hero with infinite endurance and empathy. In the more extreme examples of anti-hero characters you might get one who is misanthropic, or has some major flaws, or who has committed wrongful acts and attempted to redeem themselves, but still does the 'right thing'. From what I know of Vergil he is not an anti-hero in the slightest. Dante is closer to being one. While it could be interesting to see how someone might make an anti-hero of Vergil in a reboot, it's not - and has never really been - what he 'is' as a character. He does not have heroic aspirations, or if he does, they're twisted so much they are beyond all recognition of being heroic and might as well not be. He is self-serving, which is the antithesis of a hero, who sacrifices or fights for others and not himself.

I can only imagine this new Vergil - if it is indeed he - will be the same. Or - that he will begin with good intentions, and become corrupt, (because we have not yet been shown exactly HOW Vergil starts down the path of being 'villainous' or selfish).
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well said.

I've been interested in seeing how vergil would act on his own so if they could show us that, it would be cool.
 
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