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Internet Idealology

Mr. Fuzzums

Destroyer of Worlds
After being on the internet for a time I realize that people on the internet are pricks most of the time and they do it because in the vast world of information there is no real consiquence for being a prick like there is in the real world.
but in that since no-one on the internet is a real person because they do things that they would not normaly do in life's context. there-for my policy is to not take anything said on the internet siriosly(misspell)

your thoughts.
 

aka958

Don't trust people
Indeed. Many are being pricks and idiots just because they can.

I'm not such a prick though, since I act the same outside of this forum. :cool: XD
 

Ronan

oakheart
Premium
I'll admit, the internet often provides a sense of liberty to those who surf it, enabling them to act as they normally wouldn't. I wouldn't generalize the whole Internet as prickish though, because the vast majority of the people I have met are anything but ^_^
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
I wouldn't personally say that people act as 'pricks' and such, but I can sort of understand where you are coming from. To me, I feel it boils down to two things. And that is the fact that feelings and emotions can't be as greatly portrayed in text, as they can through words in person. Therefore things are taken out of context and 'not as they are truly meant'. So ultimately people will take more offence over what other people say on the Internet, because their minds will take it in the wrong manner, as oppose to the manner in which it was properly meant.

And also the fact that you can be who you so wish to be. Have a different attitude or persona. If you wish to act like a jerk, because you think it to be fun, you are free to. As technically, there aren't any laws in the Virtual World.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
I dunno if I agree with that, Fuzz. Sure a lot of people are insensitive pricks, but there are a lot of people with actual morals (le gasp) that try to do what's right amidst the sea of prickitude.

No, I'm not trying to say I'm any better than anyone else. It's just something that I've noticed after being on here for almost a year.
 

Angelo Credo

Kept you waiting, huh?
215499488_8pSZr-L-2.jpg

That is all.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
^ Nice.

I think a lot of people act like idiots on the net because they can get away with it. They can unleash whatever they want because no one knows who they are. Except Mark Zuckerberg. o_O
 

BlueDevil

Super Penguin Number 2
Premium
LMAO Credo, you never fail to be awesome.

While there are "Total F*ckwads" on the internet, I find that most people have some sense of online right-and-wrong, and a lot of people are nice. Now...I haven't been everywhere, I know, but I'm just saying, from what I've seen, good people outnumber bad. Or at least, good acting people outnumber bad people.

Never know who someone really is until you do some research and make sure.
 

LordOfDarkness

The Dark Avenger © †
Moderator
Premium Elite
Premium
Supporter 2014
Xen-Omni 2020
BlueDevil;285753 said:
LMAO Credo, you never fail to be awesome.

While there are "Total F*ckwads" on the internet, I find that most people have some sense of online right-and-wrong, and a lot of people are nice. Now...I haven't been everywhere, I know, but I'm just saying, from what I've seen, good people outnumber bad. Or at least, good acting people outnumber bad people.

Never know who someone really is until you do some research and make sure.

Exactly, I totally agree with your point BD :)

And also, after a lot of background research into who you truly are, I found this underlined fact.

You're totally awesome ^_^
 

Richtofen

Nein, not ze puppies!
Premium
Lol, Credo...that was awesome! I agree though, I have met lots of nice people online, but I have met f*ckwads on online MMO games. Just sometimes you gotta ignore it and move on. :\
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
These people are jerks offline as well, in some sense, but the pressures of society force them to hide their jerkitude. It is just classic id vs. superego stuff.

The internet provides, generally, two of the main ingredients for bringing out the worst in humans:
-Deindividuation, loss of any real sense of individual identity and thus of any consequences for actions (after all, these aren't real words, they are just 1s and 0s being parsed by a computer program etc.)
-Anonymity, impossibility of tracing one's actions back to oneself, which gives the sense of nullifying them. If you can't prove someone did it, in their mind, then they didn't.

Put these things together, add a few imperfect human beings, and you have what Jung might call a Playground for the Shadow. Obviously, both of these work in the classical sense of objectifying and dehumanizing other human beings, which forms the most basic stages in the pathology of human evil. That, and the egoistic idea, that I am wholly separate from you, could probably characterize every act of willful human evil ever committed.

It seems that simply, all of us have this urge to be jackasses, you might call it a vestige of our days as animals, before we engaged in the process of becoming human (since the process is nowhere near finished). They key, as with most human ills, is getting people to understand how we are all profoundly connected, so connected in fact, that in the deepest sense we are each other, and thus to have them consider how their actions will affect others, which would lead them to act in a manner more befitting their humanity.

Alas.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
Mr. Fuzzums;285721 said:
After being on the internet for a time I realize that people on the internet are pricks most of the time and they do it because in the vast world of information there is no real consiquence for being a prick like there is in the real world.
but in that since no-one on the internet is a real person because they do things that they would not normaly do in life's context. there-for my policy is to not take anything said on the internet siriosly(misspell)

your thoughts.

This was why mask-wearing was banned in medieval Venice (except at carnivals), because the identities of people could be hidden and their behaviour changed as a result.

But I personally think it is a good thing to have anonimity on the Internet. For one thing, it is impossible for someone to physically hurt you over the Internet, or for you to hurt anyone else - so as long as you are careful and approach it with the right attitude, the Internet is not a dangerous place. Cyber-bullying is only a problem where you take that bullying to heart - it is quite different from being physically bullied - especially where you can scrap your old identity and begin again, because bullies operate against someone based on what they know of their identity. You have more control over your Internet life than your real life and I think that is a good thing. It is like a breath of fresh air not to be immediately and automatically judged by others based on your appearance, gender, age, origin and so on because you can show or hide whatever you wish of yourself.

I also think that the Internet is a fantastic place to vent and be yourself, and that too is a good thing. I remember before most people had Internet access in their homes in the early 80s, and there was no such place you could find like-minded people so easily, or voice your thoughts anonymously so easily, or just have a good rant. I very much hope the Internet is allowed to continue to be the most powerful bastion of Free Speech and anonimity (although it is slowly coming under fire and under control from governments wanting to restrict that). Whether people online act like pricks or not, or lie or not, that is the price you pay for Free Speech - you have to accept that people can say whatever they want - but so can you. Free Speech is worth a few pricks, and very much more, in my opinion.

If you exercise common sense on the Internet, there's no reason you can't enjoy it for all it's worth. Anonimity should continue to be protected as well. How many of us would be able to use the Internet as a refuge or a place to speak our minds, if our real names and addresses and photographs had to be displayed to everyone else alongside anything we ever said? It would probably no longer be an enjoyable experience with the threat of retaliation for our views. Which is why, pricks accepted, the Internet should stay the way it is, I believe. I also don't think it needs to be regulated because a few people can't stomach what you can find on it. If you don't like gross things, don't go looking for them... again I can't accept curtailment of Free Speech just because someone doesn't want to supervise their kids or because someone accidentally finds themselves on Faces of Death or something. Some need to wise up and understand that the Internet has an ugly side, of course... but if you look in the right places, you're not likely to meet it anyway. It shouldn't be censored just so a few easily-offended people can sit at their computers without trembling in fear at what they or their kids might find.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
Lexy;285859 said:
Cyber-bullying is only a problem where you take that bullying to heart - it is quite different from being physically bullied - especially where you can scrap your old identity and begin again, because bullies operate against someone based on what they know of their identity. You have more control over your Internet life than your real life and I think that is a good thing. It is like a breath of fresh air not to be immediately and automatically judged by others based on your appearance, gender, age, origin and so on because you can show or hide whatever you wish of yourself.
I think maybe you are speaking to two separate aspects of the internet. There is the anonymity, and then there is the ability to control one's identity. The problem with cyber-bullying is really only a problem for those people on sites where their identity is known, like Myspace, Facebook, etc. so anonymity is really no help in that situation, and indeed, the detachment which the Internet brings with it only makes cyber-bullying easier and more severe than bullying would be in the same situation in real life. I do agree that it is nice to be able to recreate yourself, but I don't know if putting total control in someone's hands is a good thing to do. That is what makes the Internet such a great place for deception, because there is no responsibility to the actual reality. That's why Chris Hansen catches all those predators. And why those predators catch all those children...
I also think that the Internet is a fantastic place to vent and be yourself, and that too is a good thing. I remember before most people had Internet access in their homes in the early 80s, and there was no such place you could find like-minded people so easily, or voice your thoughts anonymously so easily, or just have a good rant. I very much hope the Internet is allowed to continue to be the most powerful bastion of Free Speech and anonimity (although it is slowly coming under fire and under control from governments wanting to restrict that). Whether people online act like pricks or not, or lie or not, that is the price you pay for Free Speech - you have to accept that people can say whatever they want - but so can you. Free Speech is worth a few pricks, and very much more, in my opinion.
But is it really "being yourself" if you fashion a persona for public consumption? Can one really be oneself in the absence of others? I wouldn't exactly call Facebook pages sincere. The problem is the same as those with reality shows: the fact that the cameras are there makes people act different than they normal would.

Certainly, there are certain pressures of society that we feel are vain and arbitrary that the Internet can liberate us from, but I think that this can lend itself to a great deal of abuse, as some of these pressures are simply necessary for many people. After all, if the only thing keeping Joe from being a sadistic dickface is that people know who he is, then the Internet basically unlocks the cage and frees the beast. Is the reward of being able to find people in other countries who like DMC worth the price of connecting neoNazis and white supremacists across the world? of course, before the internet they had actual forums and actually bulletin boards, and actual groups of people physically getting together.

I don't know. I just don't believe in freedom for its own sake, and I don't believe in using free speech as a shield to hide behind when you are being an ass. (See: Westboro Baptist Church).

Anonimity should continue to be protected as well. How many of us would be able to use the Internet as a refuge or a place to speak our minds, if our real names and addresses and photographs had to be displayed to everyone else alongside anything we ever said? It would probably no longer be an enjoyable experience with the threat of retaliation for our views. Which is why, pricks accepted, the Internet should stay the way it is, I believe. I also don't think it needs to be regulated because a few people can't stomach what you can find on it. If you don't like gross things, don't go looking for them... again I can't accept curtailment of Free Speech just because someone doesn't want to supervise their kids or because someone accidentally finds themselves on Faces of Death or something. Some need to wise up and understand that the Internet has an ugly side, of course... but if you look in the right places, you're not likely to meet it anyway. It shouldn't be censored just so a few easily-offended people can sit at their computers without trembling in fear at what they or their kids might find.
Actually, I don't surf the internet assuming anonymity, because I know if someone wanted to find out who I was, they could easily do so. So I only go to websites that I would be comfortable explaining to whatever authorities that are watching. I'm also not one to think the internet should be regulated, but only for practical reasons, because corporations will just use it for their gain. But in an ideal world where things were totally clear, would I support censorship? I think I would. Again, I don't believe in freedom for its own sake because that only leads to abuse of it.

Anonymity and deindividuation have always proved to be a deadly combination, and the Internet provides them both. Should we protect a mob's right to be a mob? I don't think so.

I don't think the Internet is a bad thing, as for someone like me it is somewhat ideal. But I think, given the nature of people, it tends more toward the bad than the good, and it will until more responsible, mature users outnumber the scum. For good people, it perhaps weakens their resolve to remain virtuous, for bad people, it emphasizes their depravity.
 

Meg

Well-known Member
Moderator
I diffeniatly act differently on the net than I do in real life. I'm more open to talk about myself and share my interests. For instance, I would NEVER go Lightning crazy irl because I'd be to worried that people wouldn't see that it was a joke and think I'm weird. But on here everyone (hopefully) realizes that the level of Lightning-ness is in fact a joke.
 

moseslmpg

Well-known Member
I don't think that is at issue, the freedom of expression. What the problem is, is the removal of beneficial inhibitions necessary for civilization. If everyone acted like they did on the internet, society would crumble. It is a caveat more than a damnation of the Internet though.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
moseslmpg;285998 said:
I don't think that is at issue, the freedom of expression. What the problem is, is the removal of beneficial inhibitions necessary for civilization. If everyone acted like they did on the internet, society would crumble. It is a caveat more than a damnation of the Internet though.

The Internet is not the 'real world' - as I mentioned, as long as you are careful, mindful of its nature and associated trends and exercise caution with the Internet, the statistical chances of it being directly destructive to your life are slim. Children should be supervised or else taught to use the Internet properly, just as they must be supervised and taught to cross a road properly. You cannot expect the world to be made safe because it never will be - instead, you should educate people on its pitfalls so that they do not fall victim to them.

In the medium of the Internet, like the medium of language, I do support freedom for freedom's sake - because it is not the real world. Not to say it cannot affect the real world - it can and does, but nonetheless it has been shown and demonstrated already that society has not fallen apart as a result of people having anonimity, equality and potential freedom in a virtual world. It is not feasible in the real world, naturally, and there's little point dicussing whether absolute freedom can be given to all - clearly it can't, without a state of 'anarchy', which Nature will not entertain for long, anywhere.

I don't think people should be forced to act as they do in real life on the Internet for the sake of itself, either. We could have a world where everyone is restricted by social convention - which we all know about from living in one - that extends to every aspect of communication, including the 'Net, in the hope of safety. In the hope of people not being offended? That's ridiculous. You can no more have a world that is completely safe and respectful for everyone at all times, that we can live in the clouds. A knowledge of human nature ought to tell you that, closely followed by a knowledge of the world and existence itself.

As a sentient, fairly intelligent being I consider myself capable of enjoying freedom without abusing it, and so I support it and dismiss the idea that I should be controlled along with everyone else simply because some individuals are too stupid or predatory to use it respectfully. Of course those individuals would be the price to pay. But there is a price to pay for everything in life, and freedom is one that's just too high for me personally. It's a price many people are willing to pay for the sake of their own safety and sensibilities, but not one that I am happy to. And that's just me.

What many worried governments and people are forgetting is that the Internet has existed in this chaotic and unregulated state for over ten years, and the world hasn't fallen apart. If anything, it has made many people's lives much easier. Child porn? Child exploitation has existed long before the Internet and will continue to exist for as long as human beings do, probably, much like paedophilia. It won't be 'resolved' like some seem to think by shutting down child porn sites or catching paedophile rings. There will always be some existing, somewhere. And the same with all the other unsavoury things that may be found on the Internet - it is people, not the access, that are the primary and overwhelming originators/perpetrators of these things; they supply because there is demand. Demand from human beings, not the Internet itself, and they aren't going anywhere.

Society is changing of course, as a result - but society is always in a constant state of change. My point is, that the best thing to do is to make people smarter, not dumber, to be able to discern and navigate their path through the virtual world. Promote a healthy understanding and ability to dissect and discuss other opinons, not censorship and outrage. That's the way forward for human beings, mentally, at any rate - censoring ourselves and our expression serves to hold back society's progress toward better quality of life, as you can see in places in the world where there is so much censorship and restriction, the countries still appear to live and think in the Middle Ages. Growth is a not altogether pleasant process - and if human beings want to continue to develop and explore and improve ourselves, preventing that growth and exploration through censorship to maintain a status quo will achieve nothing. I personally feel I am still living in the 'dark ages' with the way governments and countries and indeed many people still act, and I'm all for people learning how to behave in a more civilised manner - but it won't be done through forcible restriction. People have to want to be civilised to achieve that kind of reality, and they are better off being intelligent than not for that to occur. And censorship and intellectual enlightenment do not go hand in hand.

To finish - there will always be pricks and dangerous people in the world, and sweeping them under the carpet, punishing or gagging them won't ever stop them existing. There will always be a small % of society that is destructive, hateful and predatory, and they can't be prevented. So - no, I wouldn't consider killing the Internet as we know it just to prevent these people existing online too, as quite frankly, they are less dangerous online to someone who is smart enough.
 
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