How does Kat compare to Lady?

[AlchemistFromEden]

-That is nonsensical, they are part of a secret organization and aware that it is them against the world, and the demons that control it, to not try to have as much in the way of weapons and training in the use of those weapons as possible in case their location was outed somehow sounds like the very pinnacle of stupidity. And if they had proper weapons and training, they could have fought against trained guards, especially if they had set booby traps throughout their base in case of such a situation to give them a further advantage. That they did none of those things makes no sense.
-The same applies to Kat, why was she not armed, and trained in those armaments, that she had magic is no reason for her to not also have weapons and learn how to use them, especially given how hostile she knows the demon controlled world is to her and her group. When everything in the world is potentially against you, why would she not be armed and trained, why would the Order not be armed and trained?
-Were any of the people killed shown to be armed? And were any escape routes shown? Did they at least have flash bangs or use smoke grenades (which are easy to make) to make it harder for the raiding Swat group to take them out?

-kat says in the beginning of the game that some of them do use force but the order is meant mostly for intel gathering, and once again, they are NORMAL HUMANS, so they can't even see what they would be fighting, and they aren't trained for combat, i'm sorry if there is some un-written rule that every group of freedom fighters has to be completely capable of combat, when once again, dante arrived late so he doesn't even know what happened
-she is trained to be the ultimate intel gathering tool, she fades into limbo, seriously, consider for once that they weren't going for an anime feel, the people in the order are normal everyday humans who aren't controlled by the demons, in a world full of demons you can't just have any random joe come in to train you group of rebels period, and i doubt that with things like virility, there are many people out there who would be capable of teaching them how to fight against a completely unexpected assault where most of them tried to save their information and probably evacuate and WHO said there were no escape routes? i don't remember that being said, the only time it is said is when Kat got trapped in the room

 

[SryCauldon]

-kat says in the beginning of the game that some of them do use force but the order is meant mostly for intel gathering, and once again, they are NORMAL HUMANS, so they can't even see what they would be fighting, and they aren't trained for combat, i'm sorry if there is some un-written rule that every group of freedom fighters has to be completely capable of combat, when once again, dante arrived late so he doesn't even know what happened
-she is trained to be the ultimate intel gathering tool, she fades into limbo, seriously, consider for once that they weren't going for an anime feel, the people in the order are normal everyday humans who aren't controlled by the demons, in a world full of demons you can't just have any random joe come in to train you group of rebels period, and i doubt that with things like virility, there are many people out there who would be capable of teaching them how to fight against a completely unexpected assault where most of them tried to save their information and probably evacuate and WHO said there were no escape routes? i don't remember that being said, the only time it is said is when Kat got trapped in the room

And are you saying that "Normal humans" would not try their best to train themselves in combat if the possibility existed they might be hunted down by the human forces that are at said demons beck and calls, and I already mentioned, why on Earth does Kat's powers make it so she could not, would not, use every available means to increase her survivability, and the same for the group. I mean honestly, have you ever heard of any secret organization through history that lived in a place ruled by a tyrant that was not heavily armed with everything they could get? Humans are adaptive, and unless stupid, able to gauge risk. Are you saying no one would think the demons that rule the world would send the police force under their control after them if they were found out?

 

[darkmanifest]

-considering that the order was full of normal everyday humans and kat being "special" i'm not surprised that they couldn't go rambo and fight back against all of those trained guards
-Kat also only uses wiccan recipes and simple magic, not things such as blasting balls of energy remember this isn't old dmc when that was the norm so we shouldn't at all over estimate humans
-the game never actually says that no one escaped or that no one fought back, all we saw was multiple people getting killed doesn't mean they got them all and think about the way you get into the order's hideout with the eye scanner and code

Nobody has to be Rambo or use gun-kata to know how to point a gun in the right direction. They weren't facing off against demons, they were dealing with demon-owned humans in the raid. How believable is it that Vergil never showed Kat how to use a firearm if her life was on the line? The point isn't for them to be victorious against a trained SWAT team, but to show some effort to fight back at all.

And the game does show us none of the Order members fighting back, and Kat's dialogue implies no one escaped ("Why did they have to kill everyone?") She also said she "knows this place like the back of [her] hand", and even she couldn't find an escape route for a human, because there weren't any. They weren't prepared for being discovered, which is hard to believe for a group that knows they're the last line of defense against a violent, worldwide conspiracy and therefore went through a ton of trouble to camouflage their facility and set it up with alarms and security doors.

 

[Triceranuke]

Like I said, I didn't expect her to snipe people from a rooftop like a boss. But she had magical powers and a lot of backbone, and couldn't do anything. This is the same girl who put together a magical Molotov to render a massive Hunter demon vulnerable enough for Dante to kill. I had trouble accepting she had zero skills to deploy against mere humans. How about a few regular Molotovs?

Also, DmC is modeled after Western action movies where the cops, including SWAT, tend to be hilariously incompetent, as evidenced by their inability to injure Kat again despite spraying hundreds of bullets in her direction while she was exposed later in the game.

She was the only person left in that room against an entire team of armed SWAT members and she doesn't even have a bullet proof vest. Not to mention she's pretty waifish.
Dante specifically told her what to do, and complying perfectly she was still shot and kicked. Imagine if she had tried to fight back with no weapons. She's a normal human vs bigger, stronger and better armed normal humans.
Her spells only affect limbo.

 

[darkmanifest]

She was the only person left in that room against an entire team of armed SWAT members and she doesn't even have a bullet proof vest. Not to mention she's pretty waifish.
Dante specifically told her what to do, and complying perfectly she was still shot and kicked. Imagine if she had tried to fight back with no weapons. She's a normal human vs bigger, stronger and better armed normal humans.
Her spells only affect limbo.

That's my point entirely. Why didn't she have a bulletproof vest or better weapons? Why didn't the server room have any escape routes besides the one in Limbo? Why was that place and all its members so poorly equipped to defend against any kind of attack, when they knew the entire city, its police force, its government, and a buttload of demons was out to get them?

These things could have been avoided without even breaking the sequence of events: Show the few Order members we do see firing back and throwing grenades and smoke bombs at the SWAT team and getting mowed down anyway. Show Kat guiding Dante in the real world by knowing how to disarm all the security measures that were activated by the building going into Defcon One, or activating those measures as she goes. Reveal in dialogue that some of the emergency escape routes, including the ones out of the server room, have been compromised. Show Kat pulling out a gun herself to make a last stand and Dante telling her not to do it, that she's less likely to be killed if she surrenders when they bust through the door. Finish up with Vergil remarking how only a few survivors made it out of the building (in the safehouse scene with Dante).

Voila, same story, but without making the Order look pointless and incompetent. They're little changes that would have given a dramatically different impression of what kind of place Kat and Vergil were running.

 

[ZeroLove]

From what I have seen, KAt and Lady are two COMPLETELY different characters. They are both human women and brunettes, but that's about all they have in common.

 

[AlchemistFromEden]

That's my point entirely. Why didn't she have a bulletproof vest or better weapons? Why didn't the server room have any escape routes besides the one in Limbo? Why was that place and all its members so poorly equipped to defend against any kind of attack, when they knew the entire city, its police force, its government, and a buttload of demons was out to get them?

These things could have been avoided without even breaking the sequence of events: Show the few Order members we do see firing back and throwing grenades and smoke bombs at the SWAT team and getting mowed down anyway. Show Kat guiding Dante in the real world by knowing how to disarm all the security measures that were activated by the building going into Defcon One, or activating those measures as she goes. Reveal in dialogue that some of the emergency escape routes, including the ones out of the server room, have been compromised. Show Kat pulling out a gun herself to make a last stand and Dante telling her not to do it, that she's less likely to be killed if she surrenders when they bust through the door. Finish up with Vergil remarking how only a few survivors made it out of the building (in the safehouse scene with Dante).

Voila, same story, but without making the Order look pointless and incompetent. They're little changes that would have given a dramatically different impression of what kind of place Kat and Vergil were running.

or you could just let NT do storytelling and secret organizations their way instead of adhering to the stereotype of a rebel organization being filled with people who know how to defend themselves or have the means to acquire weapons, because you know, NT have a group of competent writers and there's a reason for why they wrote the story and why YOU weren't asked, the fighters aren't this

They are this

now which one seems more capable of defending itself,

 

[SryCauldon]

It is not a "Stereotype" it is fact, can you name a single rebel group through history that was trying to subvert a dangerous tyrannical government that was not well armed, did not train their members to at least use basic fire arms, and that did not have escape routes and fall back positions? Well, besides the ones that tried to do things purely peacefully and were crushed immediately.

It is not a matter of of story telling, it is the simple fact that if I was in such a group, if any person was, they would want a weapon, and would want to know how to use it.

Are you saying if you were in such a group, aware the world was against you, and that if they caught you you would very likely be tortured or killed, you would not want weapons or training in their use? And the lack of escape routes or fallback plans would not worry you?

You would just happily work at your computer not worried that you would ever be found by armed men and killed?

 

[Britt690]

I prefer Lady all the way. Given what she's gone through with her father betraying her and killing off her mother, she had a right to act the way she did. I'd probably be like that too; hard to trust people and keep pretty much to myself. What drew me to her was that she's able to handle herself and didn't play the damsel-in-distress role. And when Dante tried to kiss her she was all like "uh-uh." Girl's got some kick to her but she was also vulnerable. Under all that tough exterior lies a broken soul and she showed it, towards the end of DMC 3. She was her own stand alone character (not some love token/motivation) and it was refreshing for me to see that.

Kat...

I don't know yet...other than she needs to eat a sandwich or two.

I mean, I guess she could create portals and stuff and she gathers intel and collects dessicated squirrel semen, but I didn't get the same presence as Lady. Or maybe they didn't have enough time to develop into her character enough for me to care. They gave that little snippet into her world with her stepfather but...that was it. Comparing her to Kyrie would be out of the question as I can't stand that girl, but Kat just kinda felt...there in my opinion. And Vergil casting her aside didn't help much either. She didn't have to be a gun-toting femme fatale, but something's missing with her. And why couldn't Vergil go and create portals himself? Or was he above doing such menial tasks?

 

[Janoosen]

or you could just let NT do storytelling and secret organizations their way instead of adhering to the stereotype of a rebel organization being filled with people who know how to defend themselves or have the means to acquire weapons, because you know, NT have a group of competent writers and there's a reason for why they wrote the story and why YOU weren't asked

darkmanifest makes a pretty good point if you ask me. If you run a rebel organization acquiring weapons and making sure everyone knows how to use them in case of an emergency, such as the enemy finding your hidden base with no escape routes, is pretty much standard procedure for any rebel organization. A rebel organization without any means of defending themselves or escape isn't a rebel organization, they're just sitting ducks waiting to be annihilated. It's simple logic. Trying something different is alright by me, but making it completely illogical in the process is something else.

Competent writers? That's debatable. Are you referring to the competent writers who had to hire outside writers for Heavenly Sword and Enslaved because their scripts for those games were THAT bad? Rhianna Pratchett who wrote Heavenly Sword had to rewrite the majority of the script for Heavenly Sword and Alex Garland who wrote Enslaved had to rewrite their characterization of Monkey. The original draft had Monkey kick a slave off a ledge for no reason because NT deemed it "badass" when it only made Monkey look stupid. So you'll have to excuse me for questioning NT's literary capabilities.

Don't get me wrong though. The story in DmC isn't bad, in fact it has a lot of potential especially for a sequel...but it's by no means a pulitzer either.

On topic: I prefer Lady but Britt690 already said everything I wanted to say about Lady and beautifully at that. I like Kat too, but she didn't have the same impact on me that Lady did.

 

[devil_inside123]

or you could just let NT do storytelling and secret organizations their way instead of adhering to the stereotype of a rebel organization being filled with people who know how to defend themselves or have the means to acquire weapons, because you know, NT have a group of competent writers and there's a reason for why they wrote the story and why YOU weren't asked, the fighters aren't this

They are this

now which one seems more capable of defending itself,

They would at least have SOMETHING heck, I'd be ok with just bullet proof vest just to show that there plan wasn't just "build a rebellion and hope we dont get caught and if we do, we're screwed." I think the other guy means just some sort of resistance even if they sucked with the guns and can't hit anything with them just show that they didn't just give up when the swat got there

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@devil_inside123: This thread is over two years old. Please check the date of the last post before replying. Thanks.