Evil Character Appologists

[TerrorA]

Honestly, what the hell has happened to fans in recent years?

I can not believe some of the stuff I come across in my travels along the internet!

Once upon a time, if a character was evil, no one made excuses for them, we just accepted they were evil. We didn't make convoluted explanations for them, or throw other characters under a bus to make them look better. We didn't ignore their canon misdeeds.

I'm speaking of this, a 28 chapter essay on Griffith from Berserk. The author makes some valid points in some of her reasoning, then her Insane Troll Logic blows it all away.

Why do people (both male and female) do this? Why do fans utterly refuse to see evil in these characters? Why do they go out of their way to romanticize them?

 

[Loopy]

It's like Loki and Thor. Since the movie came out, Loki has been turned into a character who's tragic background is now used as an excuse to justify his behaviour. Yes, he has it rough in the movie, being lied to about his origin, being second best to Thor, but it shouldn't be an excuse for him going so unhinged.
I think it's something to do with villains being more interesting than the protagonists in the majority of cases, so people want to explain why a villain would act in that way. Now, I don't mind using a villain's past to explain why they behave like that, but using it as an excuse as to why a villain went on a massacre or something extreme is just silly. Sure, their tragic backstory is a reason for why they did it, but it does not excuse what they have done.

Got to say though, this sort of defending also happens with protagonists who do questionable things for the greater good. It's not just villains who get this treatment of fans looking into the backstory to explain why they do what they do and hen using it as an excuse.

Maybe it is because villains have become more fleshed out, more backstory, more realistic, instead of the usual just wanting power to rule the world because they can. Without fleshed out villains, there would be no excusing their bad behaviour. It would just be accepted that they were bad because they had no backstory to try and find out a reason why they were so bad.
To add to that, I think a protagonist is only as good as their antagonist. So if you have a weak villain, then the protagonist is going to have a very boring story. So I'd prefer to have a villain with a tragic past over just a boring villain who wants power for no reason. If I can't find the villain believable, then how am I going to cheer on the protagonist. ^_^

 

[Chancey289]

Hitler did nothing wrong! He was just misunderstood! :troll:

Ok, I'm gonna just go back in my hole. :steve:

I do love villains though. Trying to romanticize certain villains though is a little silly though. I love people like The Joker but I'll never justify most of the sh!t he does. Instead I'll enjoy the ride and love just how evil he can be. It's just my love for a good villain.

 

[TerrorA]

It's like Loki and Thor. Since the movie came out, Loki has been turned into a character who's tragic background is now used as an excuse to justify his behaviour. Yes, he has it rough in the movie, being lied to about his origin, being second best to Thor, but it shouldn't be an excuse for him going so unhinged.
I think it's something to do with villains being more interesting than the protagonists in the majority of cases, so people want to explain why a villain would act in that way. Now, I don't mind using a villain's past to explain why they behave like that, but using it as an excuse as to why a villain went on a massacre or something extreme is just silly. Sure, their tragic backstory is a reason for why they did it, but it does not excuse what they have done.

To add to that, I think a protagonist is only as good as their antagonist. So if you have a weak villain, then the protagonist is going to have a very boring story. So I'd prefer to have a villain with a tragic past over just a boring villain who wants power for no reason. If I can't find the villain believable, then how am I going to cheer on the protagonist. ^_^

I get that. I'm not asking for 2D, hamfisted "Because I'm ****ing evil!" Villians. I'm just asking that certain individuals stop the "Guts is the true monster! Dante's the one in the wrong! How dare Cloud kill poor, sweet Sephiroth!" bullshit.

 

[Loopy]

I get that. I'm not asking for 2D, hamfisted "Because I'm ******* evil!" Villians. I'm just asking that certain individuals stop the "Guts is the true monster! Dante's the one in the wrong! How dare Cloud kill poor, sweet Sephiroth!" bullshit.

Seriously...someone is hating Cloud for killing Sephiroth?!:blink: And I'm not sure what Dante has done that is so terrible. He killed demons who were going to destroy the world.


Who are these people making excuses?:blink: Villains are there to be evil, to be a challenge for the protagonist. They're not there to be given a pity party for their past.

As for the people writing this...it's not like they can be made to stop. Besides, some of the reasoning gives me a few giggles. I can't wait for someone to start giving Sephiroth an excuse, how Sephiroth didn't mean to kill Aerith. He acted in self defence because she hit him with her basket of flowers or something stupid.:lol:

And Voldemort was just trying to save the wizards from the evil muggles; and being abandoned by his parents totally excuses his killing spree.:troll:

 

[aoshi]

 

[darkslayer13]

people feel that they are not supposed to support evil things. so if they like a character that is evil they feel that they have to justify that character's actions to justify liking that character. ( or something like that. i'm just guessing, but it makes sense )

 

[DanteStyle]

Seriously...someone is hating Cloud for killing Sephiroth?!:blink: And I'm not sure what Dante has done that is so terrible. He killed demons who were going to destroy the world.

:lol: WTF why is DANTE even in this discussion? He's not the villain, last time I checked. Don't tarnish his badass rep! He's the good guy! rofl

With that said, Dante has done some pretty questionable things *cough*demon-possession-massacre*cough*. But hey, at least he did it for the right reasons.
Vergil is a decent villain. VILLAIN. Yes, villain. Shut up, he's not the antagonist. Vergil just went after power because his ego-bloated head told him he deserved/needed it. Oh, and he was crazy. I love villains who are a bit demented and have ambition. You can argue both ways, depending on which side of the spectrum you're on, but the whole 'he's trying to get power to protect his mother' BS doesn't cut it for me. It makes no sense. And if it was legit, then Vergil is even more psychotic than I thought with a side order of delusional.

And Dexter is pretty cool, too. Yeah, I get he's got a back story, but taking out bad guys because it's the right thing to do? I guess it depends on your point of view but morally, that's unacceptable. You can't play god, and yet he does. You can't cast judgement, and yet he does. And then he sends them to hell himself, all the while telling himself that he's doing the community a greater good by getting rid of the scum, when in fact, he's no better than the people he kills. You kind of get that guilty sense of glee when he takes out criminals because he's doing what probably half the populace want to do to them, and that is what makes him a likable villain. Not his sad history.

The same with Light- he's got no back story. He's just some immature, bored genius who gets a god complex by eliminating all the bad in the world. There's nothing driving him but his own self-centered ambition for power because he deserves it.

And Chucky. YESSSSS. He's got no excuse. He was a guy who liked killing people, then he died and came back by possessing a doll to kill more people. What's his motivation? Nothing. He is as he is simply because he can be.

And Freddy Kruger. Huh, huh, huh? What about him? He's got no sob story either. He molested children and got burnt for it (serves him right, the dickhead) and then came back to haunt them in their nightmares.

And Julian? He....no. Wait. Nope, he's antagonist, never mind.

Those are the only villains I can think of offhand who are bad simply because they can be and chose to be, rather than some tragic event motivating them.

 

[Gel]

Sometimes happens people see villains as a "symbol of freedom".Why?
-Because they are not obligated to follow someone's rules, they choose to make their own.
-They could say whatever they want without being afraid of general public judgement about their persona.
- If they decide to do something good or generous towards other people, they can do it because they want to.(the opposite of being the good guy who is always questioned why he does wrong deeds.)
- Maybe because people are fed up with the "good guys"?!They can be very bothersome at times, you know.Even predicable.
-Or they are just unbearably charming with their evilness.:troll:

 

[TerrorA]

Sometimes happens people see villains as a "symbol of freedom".Why?
-Because they are not obligated to follow someone's rules, they choose to make their own.
-They could say whatever they want without being afraid of general public judgement about their persona.
- If they decide to do something good or generous towards other people, they can do it because they want to.(the opposite of being the good guy who is always questioned why he does wrong deeds.)
- Maybe because people are fed up with the "good guys"?!They can be very bothersome at times, you know.Even predicable.
-Or they are just unbearably charming with their evilness.:troll:

I find nothing "charming" about a manipulative sociopath (that's not an insult, he shows clear signs!) who raped his best friend's girlfriend TO INSANITY IN FRONT OF HIM!

God, I hate the fact that a good 45-50% Berserk readers bend over backwards to excuse that. I swear to god, some of them said "Casca wanted it." There are both males and females saying this stuff.

WHAT THE HELL, PEOPLE!? WHAT THE ACTUAL HELL!?

 

[TerrorA]

Hell, Dio ****ing Brando has more fan girls than ANY of the Jojo's.

Let's list all the evil things he did.

As a kid:

poisoned his own father.

turned all of Jonathan's friends against him

kicked Danny, Jonathan's dog

beat the snot out of Jonathan on a near daily basis, under the guise of "sportsman like play"

kissed and then slapped Erina, Jonathan's girlfriend (kissing was a big deal in the 1800's, ok)

After Jonathan hauls off and owns him something proper, Dio SETS HIS DOG ON FIRE!!!

As an adult:

poisons George Joestar, Jonathan's father and Dio's adopted father.

attempts to kill Jonathan

Stabs George to death with a knife

As a vampire

turns a woman into a vampire and forces her to feed on her own child.

turns Jack the Ripper into a vampire, then sends him after Jonathan

attacks Jonathan and Erina ON THIER HONEYMOON!

Forces Jonathan to sacrifice himself to stop him, leaving Erina a widow and Jonathan's unborn child fatherless.

Steals Jonathan's body

Sickens Jotaro Kujo's (Jonathan's great, great grandson) mother, Holly.

Has his minions murder the crap out of Jotaro's team

Kills one of Jotaro's friends, Kakyoin

Drains Joseph Joestar of blood.

Nearly kills EVERYONE!

Good things he's done:
.
..
...
....
.....
(reading a Dio fan's comment in a stilted voice) He looks good in yellow.

 

[Gel]

You don't need to go further, friend!Look at reality!Look around you!
There are a LOT of people who have a thing or even worship mass murders, rapists, serial killers.They excuse these criminal behaviors with " a bad childhood", " bad parents", bullying, whatever!
What these sick people forget is most of us had suffered from bullying, bad parenting and whatever and here we are , trying to make this world or at least the "world" which we are part of, into a better place.
I'll give other example( even if it is not directly connected to this subject): "Fifty Shades of Grey".If you dissect it to its core, it's only about domestic violence, dominance, chauvinism, psichopaty, but everybody describes it as being a "hot story of love".
Is the world hypocrite or just plain stupid?

 

[TerrorA]

"Fifty Shades of Grey". "hot story of love".

Oh, you mean that piece of slag I'm petitioning to get banned under to the Geneva Convention's subsection on torture.

 

[DanteStyle]

I'll give other example( even if it is not directly connected to this subject): "Fifty Shades of Grey".If you dissect it to its core, it's only about domestic violence, dominance, chauvinism, psichopaty, but everybody describes it as being a "hot story of love".
Is the world hypocrite or just plain stupid?

Well the writer was inspired by Twilight, so no surprises there.
-edit-
I vote the latter.

 

[Gel]

The same "work of art" terapists, sociologists and more professional people describe as "highly damaging towards female dignity and sanity.

This type of...whatever is only made to appeal to some fetichism dormant in humanity.On day, when you feel prepared to hold some "squick", you should check TVtropes.org. You will see tropes you never expect to see.Really!

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

Like Tony Montana said:

Just because someone acts virtues does not mean that they are that. It may be a construct of your mind.

 

[Loopy]

Well the writer was inspired by Twilight, so no surprises there.
-edit-
I vote the latter.

As for Twilight....I hear that was the product of the author's wish fulfilment fantasy dream about what she wanted to happen to her when she was a teenager....says it all really. Adult acting out her teenage fantasy by writing fan fiction that somehow got published. >_<

The same "work of art" terapists, sociologists and more professional people describe as "highly damaging towards female dignity and sanity.

This type of...whatever is only made to appeal to some fetichism dormant in humanity.On day, when you feel prepared to hold some "squick", you should check TVtropes.org. You will see tropes you never expect to see.Really!

Those kind of things are damaging to people who were brought up to be submissive. People who were brought up to stand up for themselves will just laugh at the book and realise what a load of rubbish it is.
Yet another badly written fan fiction by a woman who, I quote, says this about herself: "my midlife crisis, writ large. All my fantasies in there, and that's it."
Another adult woman who wasted her best years, realised her life was over and turned to writing sad drivel about being a student again to compensate for her failings.

Like Tony Montana said:

Just because someone acts virtues does not mean that they are that. It may be a construct of your mind.

Of course. That's why there are Catholic priests being arrested. They act like virtuous men of the church, but then they are perverts to children when they think no one can see.

I think everyone puts on a face for the world, and no one can ever truly know what is inside another persons head. They could seem nice on the outisde, but inside they could be the opposite.

 

[D-Sparda]

And Dexter is pretty cool, too. Yeah, I get he's got a back story, but taking out bad guys because it's the right thing to do? I guess it depends on your point of view but morally, that's unacceptable. You can't play god, and yet he does. You can't cast judgement, and yet he does. And then he sends them to hell himself, all the while telling himself that he's doing the community a greater good by getting rid of the scum, when in fact, he's no better than the people he kills. You kind of get that guilty sense of glee when he takes out criminals because he's doing what probably half the populace want to do to them, and that is what makes him a likable villain. Not his sad history.

Dexter is a superior individual to those he kills simply because in contrast to them, he uses his killing urges for something useful: taking out the "trash".

 

[TerrorA]

Dexter actually straddles the line between Punisher style Anti-hero and Villian protagonist.

 

[Demi-fiend]