ESSAY: Why it's not just about the games

[Angel]

@ Berto = But there will be no work if no one is buying the product. So people are screwed regardless of how long their contract is. In large companies, yes people go from place to place as necessary. But if we're to include smaller devs and publishers in this particular argument then there is less of that happening because it simply isn't feasible. No job is utterly secure in this world, that I know of, but there is a difference between contracts ending and having your job taken from you because no one can afford to pay you. And not everyone in a gaming company is working on the game - there are those doing stuff like mentioned such as internal mail delivery, running errands, cleaning etc. Granted, it may be easier for them to get new jobs but they shouldn't have to have lost them in the first place in this way.

Plus a company changing can still involve a loss of jobs - sometimes that's the first change made.

@ Tony - So how do gamers show companies what they want/how they feel without boycotting games? I'm interested to see what people can suggest because there must be SOMETHING that works

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

It isn't necessary to do something major. Companies are like a donkey who goes where the carrot points.
Money is the carrot, and we, the customers/gamers, point it. If we all do not actually like stuff like DLCs, the general prices of the games, and whatever else, it shows in what we DO buy. And in what we DO play. If people (a majority) actually like the prices/etc. then it will continue. If not, it will become obvious to the companies by the gamers'actions

For example, I never said I'll stop buying games. I will always love them and besides food/a house/electricity/etc. my first paycheck when I finaly manage to find that damn job, will definitely go to a game (Skyrim here I come). What I said is that the game won't necessarily be new. I'd try to look and search to find games (old ones) with special/platinum/golden/bronze/whatever editions that have all the DLCs already in one disc. Or games without DLCs and all that. This is my way for showing them that I don't support that.

If this won't change their mind, it probably means that many people DO support that, so there would be nothing to be done. The company isn't try to show us that it takes our money needlessly. It tries to make us WANT to give it to them. So yeah, they'll definitely adapt if we do

 

[wallenb]

I have to disagree with you on this. If you want a game to be made especially for you, then go make it yourself. If you can't appreciate or have the sense to just say i'll pass on this title, and move onto the hundreds of games out there, then something might be wrong there. No need to point fingers because you bought a game you don't like. There are too many games out there for you to need to write an essay about how screwed gamers are.

I actually thought MGS4 was lame but i just traded it back in and got another game. Problem solved.

I'm a gamer, and the only way to have the game of my dreams is to go out there and go to school (currently doing) and make a game i want to play. I just hope people will like it the way i will so i can get paid for doing something that i love.

and why is this thread here in the (reboot) section anyways?

 

[Meg]

Well, I agree with the essay to an extent. Though the fact that you started this (brilliant nevertheless!) conversation about games and then elaborated to transform - or evolve if you would prefer - the topic in something much more important somehow perplexed me for a moment to be completely honest. Let's see.

What perplexed you about it?
You made some lovely points though!

To be honest i liked it but i felt that you digressed too much by bringing in the examples that are mismatched with your topic.
Am i supposed to be reading about occupy wall street or douchebag developers?

I never mentioned Occupy Wall Street. And either way the whole point of the essay was to tie games to a much larger issue.

i think your essay would have been better if it did show examples of developers underhandness outside of dlcs.
Some examples wold have been nice.

Excellent point. Like I said, I'll be adding to the essay soon. I just wanted to get a rough draft down. I will be sure to bring more examples in my revisions.

snip to save space

But if gamers don't get bored with the same thing then developers won't come up with something different. (If i understand you correctly.)

I'm not trying to be rude, but what was the point of this essay? I get that DLC makes you mad but what does that have to do with anything about the reboot or this forum? Has there been anything about DmC having downloadable content or is this about something that NT or Capcom has done because I don't get the reason for any of this. Also,(again, not trying to be rude) if you want people to listen to you, you shouldn't bring up things like women gaining basic rights to being free of companies charging you for DLC/not completing games or bring up the book that Andrew Ryan was based off of to help with your argument.

The reboot and all the discussion about it got me thinking about all of this. That's why I posted in in this section. And the whole point of bringing up examples of women gaining rights and so on is because the whole point of the essay is to tie games to a larger issue. I was using the second wave as an example to to show this larger issue.

And dear lord, please don't refer to one of the most important and influential books of the 20th century as "the book that Andrew Ryan was based off of." Have some respect for Ms. Rand's work please. -_- (Coming from a big Bioshock fan.)

snip to save space

That is a very good point! Let me ponder over that thought and get back to you. *thinks*

I have to disagree with you on this. If you want a game to be made especially for you, then go make it yourself. If you can't appreciate or have the sense to just say i'll pass on this title, and move onto the hundreds of games out there, then something might be wrong there. No need to point fingers because you bought a game you don't like. There are too many games out there for you to need to write an essay about how screwed gamers are.

I actually thought MGS4 was lame but i just traded it back in and got another game. Problem solved.

I'm a gamer, and the only way to have the game of my dreams is to go out there and go to school (currently doing) and make a game i want to play. I just hope people will like it the way i will so i can get paid for doing something that i love.

and why is this thread here in the (reboot) section anyways?

Whoa whoa whoa! Calm down your socks. No need to get heated and put words in my mouth.
I never said I want games to be made especially for me. And I don't have the sense to pass on a title? What? I have said time and time again that I don't buy games at full price, or at all, for reasons stated in my essay. Where are you getting all this?

I'm pointing fingers because I bought a game I didn't like? Why are you putting words in my mouth again? And I'm sorry I dared to express my thoughts and opinion on a subject in the form of an essay. I'm sorry I love writing and write essays for fun because I enjoy it. I'll just keep my thoughts to myself in the future. (And I'm not even talking about how screwed gamers are.)

And I put this in the reboot section because the reboot and discussions surrounding it inspired the essay.

 

[berto]

But if gamers don't get bored with the same thing then developers won't come up with something different. (If i understand you correctly.)

Game makers are also gamers, they will make games for the passion of it and make them reflecting the games they are passionate about.

 

[Angel]

They will make games for the passion of it but like I mentioned in my wall of gibberish, passion doesn't pay the bills. At some point, makers have to toe the line of finance.

 

[berto]

True, you can have one or the other.

When Shinji Mikami was interviewed on his work for Shadowns of the Damned he mentioned how difficult it was to work on titles that you wanted to make but if your making them yourself the finnanced aren't always there; however, to work for a large company you get to do it with a much larger budget but now you have someone who tells you how they want it. Look at a developer like Platinum Games as well, though, the team earned a reputation, some money and they branched off to work on games they wanted to make. They might still answer to Sega but they are making games under a philosophy they belive in and they are not the only ones.

 

[V's patron]

@meg- i was being sarcastic about the occupy wall street comment but i did have that feeling of confusement.

I dont think tying the dilemma youre writing to those bigger issues is a great idea as those issues are too big to tie into the gaming crises. Try tieing it into issues that fit the entertainment indusrtry.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

What perplexed you about it?
You made some lovely points though!

Somehow after reading a while I thought the purpose of the thread would change completely to something more serious and more general but in the closing paragraph you returned to the beginning of the essay, it was a bit suddenXD

Thanks a lot^^

They will make games for the passion of it but like I mentioned in my wall of gibberish, passion doesn't pay the bills. At some point, makers have to toe the line of finance.

Well, it's not only the "lack of passion" in my opinion. It's the extreme focus on super special awesome graphics. These take too much time and too much money, probably the most crucial things of developing a game (Among others).

 

[boo]

The reboot and all the discussion about it got me thinking about all of this. That's why I posted in in this section. And the whole point of bringing up examples of women gaining rights and so on is because the whole point of the essay is to tie games to a larger issue. I was using the second wave as an example to to show this larger issue.

I know, but I still think that's it's a bad example, try using the other examples of companies abusing their powers and the outcomes as an example rather than people fighting to gain basic human freedoms.

And dear lord, please don't refer to one of the most important and influential books of the 20th century as "the book that Andrew Ryan was based off of." Have some respect for Ms. Rand's work please. -_- (Coming from a big Bioshock fan.)

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I used Andrew as an example because his shared philosophy led to the creation of Rapture and we all know how that went. I didn't say that that's the only thing the book is known for. Also, I know that it's influential but I don't have respect for the book or it's fanaticism, sorry :/.

 

[CoolDemon]

Graphics is another problem.
Making great graphic is very easy compared to making a innovative game.

If you can make a average graphic game with great gameplay - u can in next sequel improve the graphic by alot.

But first you need the gameplay.

 

[Meg]

@meg- i was being sarcastic about the occupy wall street comment but i did have that feeling of confusement.

I dont think tying the dilemma youre writing to those bigger issues is a great idea as those issues are too big to tie into the gaming crises. Try tieing it into issues that fit the entertainment indusrtry.

I know, but I still think that's it's a bad example, try using the other examples of companies abusing their powers and the outcomes as an example rather than people fighting to gain basic human freedoms.

But the whole point of the essay was to explain that the issues with the games industry are tied to a much larger issue in society as a whole and I explained it as such. I wasn't saying that the entertainment industry has problems. I was making the point that society has problems and that the games industry is just one part of it. That's why I brought in examples that have to do with bigger issues and society as a whole: because they support my thesis.

You misinterpreted what I wrote. I used Andrew as an example because his shared philosophy led to the creation of Rapture and we all know how that went. I didn't say that that's the only thing the book is known for. Also, I know that it's influential but I don't have respect for the book or it's fanaticism, sorry :/.

I didn't get that from what you wrote, sorry. And please don't take this the wrong way, but did you ever read the book?

 

[boo]

Well, it's not only the "lack of passion" in my opinion. It's the extreme focus on super special awesome graphics. These take too much time and too much money, probably the most crucial things of developing a game (Among others).

That's more of the consumers fault than anything. Skyward Sword comes to mind as the lack of current generation graphics was one of the biggest talked about things among gamers.

 

[boo]

I didn't get that from what you wrote, sorry. And please don't take this the wrong way, but did you ever read the book?

No, I didn't read the book but I've read about Rann and her philosophies along with a plot synopsis and quotes and I just don't agree with it. Especially her feelings on government entitlement programs, that just doesn't sit well with me.

 

[Meg]

No, I didn't read the book but I've read about Rann and her philosophies along with a plot synopsis and quotes and I just don't agree with it. Especially her feelings on government entitlement programs, that just doesn't sit well with me.

Ah! I don't agree with Rand's philosophies either, but her writing style is so beautiful that even though I don't agree with 100% of what she is saying I still think her books are great reads. Not only that, but Rand gets me thinking. I always get tons of ideas for essays and my own stories when reading her books.

To each there own. ^^

 

[boo]

...Dammit, that's it!? We're just going to respectfully disagree? This is a a video game forum, we should treat it like one! HEY EVERYONE, MEG IS A RAND LOVER...AND PROBABLY A FATTY FAT FAT FAT!!!...FAT

 

[Meg]

...Dammit, that's it!? We're just going to respectfully disagree? This is a a video game forum, we should treat it like one! HEY EVERYONE, MEG IS A RAND LOVER...AND PROBABLY A FATTY FAT FAT FAT!!!...FAT

Oh well in that case...

WHOOPS! How did that get in here? >.>
*ahem*

TAKE THAT!

------

In all seriousness, if you want to read a beautifully written book without the philosophy then give We the Living a try. It's Rand's first book and it's about living in the Soviet Union. It's very powerful with only a tiny bit of philosophy mumbo jumbo. I love it.

 

[Tony_Redgrave]

Um, I know you guys are kidding and stuff, but to avert misunderstandings and remain on topic, please refrain from comments like that

 

[Meg]

Um, I know you guys are kidding and stuff, but to avert misunderstandings and remain on topic, please refrain from comments like that

Sorry about that! I like comedy relief and I thought this thread needed some, but if you'd rather I stopped then stop I shall.

 

[Virago]

Whaaaaaat? Really? Companies releasing DLC for purchase or taking artistic license with their own materials is the equivalent to the oppression of women or taxation without representation?? I could not possibly disagree more with you on this!

You don't need to buy DLC. You know that, right? Hell, you don't need to buy video games in the first place, especially not from developers you don't like or who you believe overcharge for a basic product. Further, I seriously doubt video game companies are offering DLC because men have lost their integrity and there's a recession, or whatever. They're doing it because Xbox, PS3 and PCs have the capacity to download and store information. Meaning a game can hit the shelves and six months later the company can offer new levels or a different ending without re-releasing the game. You can always watch for free on Youtube if it's that important.

Larger society is going through a lot of BS. The worldwide economy is in the crapper, young people are feeling increasingly screwed over by older generations and government forces, there are no jobs for anyone without a master's and even then they pay hardly covers the student loan bill, drugs are still illegal, etc... None of that has anything to do with game companies releasing DLC or rebooting their popular game series.

I find it rather ironic you chose Atlas Shrugged as your call to arms. John Galt would likely side with the game companies in this debate - after all, they produced something with their resources, and you're upset because it wasn't to your liking or because they realized they could profit off some extras rather than offering said extras for free. That's pretty entitled of you.