DmC vs MGR: A neutral person's perspective

[mrrandomlulz]

For those of you who wish to know the origin of this thread, it's simple.

I was just being my herpity-derpity self when I saw *le gasp* ANOTHER DmC review that addresses a controversy that already died down.

Needless to say I made a little joke

Man, I find it funny how DmC's controversy has people STILL BOTH ATTACKING AND DEFENDING IT!

The game's out, it is a good game,Metal Gear Rising:Revengeance kicks its ass.


Both sides quit yer bitchin'

The little joke caused people to tell me "SHUT UP, YOU'RE NOT NEUTRAL AT ALL UNLESS YOU WORSHIP THIS GAME." (Note: This was not even close to what they said. They just said it didn't seem neutral of me to say that, they actually said it in a rather respectful manner..)

My sdophisticated, professional, reply was "WTF, you talking bout you! I'm reporting you and you gonna get banned lolololol!"
(Note: I did not actually report anybody, nor did I threaten to, I don't waste mod's time over something as trivial as differing opinions.)
And thus this thread was born.

First let me say, yes, while I believe MGR is the better game, DmC did get some things better.


Let me break it down into category's

The scoring works like this

The winner of each category gets one point, however, if the competitor didn't do too shabby, it gets 0.5
Characters
MGR wins this one, not that it had great characters, just that I hated virtually every character in DmC except for Mundus.


MGR:1
DmC:0
Costumes

Yet again, MGR wins because Cyborn Ninja Mexican, nuff said. (Plus it's an unlockable and not DLC)
Though the DLC classic Dante is a nice touch when killing demons.
MGR:2
DmC:0.5
Weapons
DmC wins, because of the more fitting ranged weapons and more weapon variety

However if I were asked "Would you like to buy the actual Rebellion or the actual HFK for a reasonable price?" and I knew it wasn't a scam and only had enough for one of the two.
The real question would be

"How much is a cyborg body to go with the katana?"
MGR:2.5
DmC:1.5

Combat

I thoroughly enjoyed both games combat systems, so this was a tough choice, but what it came down to is "Which one is the better combat in general."
And honestly, it was still a tough choice to make.
So I looked at the amount of adrenaline I got and fun I had using each combat system.
and MGR won by a landslide. This isn't to say DmC's isn't fun.
But DmC's combat feels slow at times and relies purely on the grapple gimmick to give any adrenaline. Add the fact that there are so many exploits such as easy to do jump cancel (which is actually pretty fun to spam, extra 0.5 for that) and the demon evade, it makes the combat a fun but easy time killer.
With MGR, while blade mode is definitely a gimmick, it's not the only thing the combat relies on, the speed , the fact that enemies can attack you from off screen, the parry feels a bit harder to use, and the combat itself is tight and responsive.
MGR:3.5
DmC:2



So in the end MGR wins by one point, that is all. I guess "kicks it's ass" wasn't really a good statement to use.

 

[Dusk Stalker]

And here come the swarms of Pro's to say your wrong....

 

[SpawnShooter]

I agree, from a neutral gamers perspective I think MGR just kills it.

DmC has a far superior combo system (combo system, not gameplay) but the average gamer doesn't want to take the time to learn specific techniques and often fall back onto what works rather than what's stylish and when played that way DmC becomes boring very fast.

Whereas MGR doesn't really have many combos and the light attack features dynamic moves that make the player feel like they are chaining effectively and mixing up, similar to the combat in Batman:AA/C

I think when all's said and done the combat in DmC tries to makes you feel like a combo video uploader whereas the combat in MGR tries to make you feel like a badass and to people less involved in the franchises (many not even knowing what a combo video is) the latter is certainly more attractive.

 

[Chancey289]

They're about the same to me but I'll go with DmC being better just because MGR is not what I wanted out of that game. I'm a bigger Metal Gear Solid fan so I wished the cyborg ninja game I always wanted was better and starring Gray Fox.

Raiden is still lame. The final fantasy reject with spunk blood. Although, I personally don't like how they continued Raiden's story in the first place. I know you probably don't care about this at all because you're probably not an avid MGS fan. I don't care as much because it's Raiden and he still sucks but it does irk me to an extent.

In MGS 4, Raiden's story had resolution. He was drained and done with all the fighting. You can see it. At the end of MGS 4 he made a promise to stay with Rose and his new kid. Retiring from fighting. Him suiting up again in MGR just kinda tosses out that resolution and it irks me. It's the popcorn MG game. Metal Gear Fruit Ninja because P* is just all about style over substance. Yes, I'm saying the weak story bugs me. It's because it's Metal Gear and I actually enjoy seeing that story being told and care enough about the characters and all to see the sh!t work out like it's suppose to.

Still a fun game even though it was super f#ck short but, it should have been the game that bridged the gap for Raiden between MGS 2 and 4. I want a sequel but starring Gray Fox with Kojima actually writing the thing. Gray Fox is a tragic character deserving of the Kojima storytelling treatment. I don't want to see that popcorn story telling for him.

 

[JessenReinhart]

SNIPZ.

i totally agreed with you. the story should have stayed like it was (post MGS2-pre MGS4). that is the reason why i didnt like MGR too much. it is still a great game though, but the storyline isnt what i was expected.

 

[EvilX-81]

i totally agreed with you. the story should have stayed like it was (post MGS2-pre MGS4). that is the reason why i didnt like MGR too much. it is still a great game though, but the storyline isnt what i was expected.

That's what I don't understand; from what I heard, P* needed the storyline to be after MGS4 for some reason. Was it so they could legitimize Raiden seeming to have a more powerful body and chucking Metal Gears?

I can't compare the two though as I haven't played the full game of MGR yet past the demo, though I suspect MGR is probably the more polished of the two. Something always felt just a tad off about DmC's gameplay, like it could've bumped up an effect or stylized it just a notch more and it might've been perfect.

But from what little I've seen about the plot and for reasons given earlier... f*ck that storyline.

Still a fun game even though it was super f#ck short but, it should have been the game that bridged the gap for Raiden between MGS 2 and 4. I want a sequel but starring Gray Fox with Kojima actually writing the thing. Gray Fox is a tragic character deserving of the Kojima storytelling treatment. I don't want to see that popcorn story telling for him.

Wait, I thought MGR was written by Kojima?

 

[Jak]

i like both but its hard to compare them because they are two different games. its not like comparing MGR to NG. if you wish to compare DmC, compare it to something like bayonetta or never dead.

 

[Bazilican]

Hmm, a homeless, douche bag, demon killing, cussing, angsty half breed loser or a spandex wearing, flaming cyborg ninja trying to be the retard baby of Hayabusa and Dante loser?

Hmmm, decision...

 

[EvilX-81]

i like both but its hard to compare them because they are two different games. its not like comparing MGR to NG. if you wish to compare DmC, compare it to something like bayonetta or never dead.

Hmm,it's kinda even for me more or less between DmC and Bayonetta. DmC succeeds in many areas, while Bayonetta excells at one (and sucks balls in the rest.) DmC gets a flat rate across the board for a passing grade, while Bayonetta passes only for knocking one or two aspects out the park.

DmC for me had meh/fun and tight gameplay, a story I more or less enjoyed playing through, okay characters, and rather surprisingly fun platforming sections. It was more or less average or above it.

But if DmC was a flat line on a graph, Bayonetta was an immediate high spike to followed by a drop off the grid itself.

Bayonetta had awesome and tight gameplay and is the sole reason why I still come back to it. But it's all dragged down by the crap storyline, irritating cast, admirable but overall annoying platforming sections with "press X not to die" bullshit, and a camera that is blatantly trying to sabotage me. Also, personal gripe, but a game packed with tons of 15 minute-long cutscenes, that consist of bombastic action scenes for atleast 70% percent of them with bare scraps of plot progression filling the rest? I love my over-the-top cutscenes, but even I thought this was going overboard.

 

[Jak]

Hmm,it's kinda even for me more or less between DmC and Bayonetta. DmC succeeds in many areas, while Bayonetta excells at one (and sucks balls in the rest.) DmC gets a flat rate across the board for a passing grade, while Bayonetta passes only for knocking one or two aspects out the park.

DmC for me had meh/fun and tight gameplay, a story I more or less enjoyed playing through, okay characters, and rather surprisingly fun platforming sections. It was more or less average or above it.

But if DmC was a flat line on a graph, Bayonetta was an immediate high spike to followed by a drop off the grid itself.

Bayonetta had awesome and tight gameplay and is the sole reason why I still come back to it. But it's all dragged down by the crap storyline, irritating cast, admirable by overall annoying platforming sections with "press X not to die" bullshit, and a camera that is blatantly trying to sabotage me. Also, personal gripe, but a game packed with tons of 15 minute-long cutscenes, that consist of bombastic action scenes for atleast 70% percent of them with bare scraps of plot progression filling the rest? I love my over-the-top cutscenes, but even I thought this was going overboard.

...i haven't played it yet...

 

[IncarnatedDemon]

obviously dmc reboot has more polished gameplay and at certain areas it is better than metal gear rising.

but considering metal gear rising is the first entry of the hack and slash spin off serie - rising, then it really is beating dmc.
dmc reboot is fifth iteration of devil may cry gameplay.
mgr 1 is the foundation for future iterations and it can only get better.

dmc on other hand is fifth iteration yet it has regressed to a certain degree.
it hasnt introduced anything major to the gameplay.

if metal gear rising 2 is made and dmc reboot 2 is also made and is to be released around same time.
then im betting my money metal gear rising 2 will outsell dmc reboot.

 

[Dante47]

And here come the swarms of Pro's to say your wrong....

No, not really. An opinion cannot be false, or wrong. People will come to this thread to discuss their differences of opinions, otherwise, this thread would just be meaningless if everyone nodded their heads in agreement.
Besides, mrrandomlulz (surprisingly) stated his opinion in a reserved and dignified manner, as would someone who shows great neutrality to both titles. So, as long as other people state their differing opinions in a similarly respectful manner, what does it matter?

 

[Dusk Stalker]

No, not really. An opinion cannot be false, or wrong. People will come to this thread to discuss their differences of opinions, otherwise, this thread would just be meaningless if everyone nodded their heads in agreement.
Besides, mrrandomlulz (surprisingly) stated his opinion in a reserved and dignified manner, as would someone who shows great neutrality to both titles. So, as long as other people state their differing opinions in a similarly respectful manner, what does it matter?

With what happens sometimes, even the most innocent of threads or opinions can become a full out war in a matter of minutes or pages.

 

[VineBigBoss]

About the combat itself, i have some complaints about these two games:

DmC: Enemy design is horrible, seriously, most of the monsters have gimmicks that prove themselves utterly meaningless or just poor-designed: like the parrys from the Dreamrunners/Drekavacs that gives the player no clues that they're coming out but are easily bypassed simple by overusing the darts from Kablooey, rendering the enemy useless or having to deal with a poorly-designed gimmick to make the enemy harder; sum it up with the majority of the enemies being uncapable of stopping you while you're beating the hell out of some monsters in the air. I will not even mention the bosses designs because even people who don't played other good games in this genre will see that the majority of the bosses are just terrible, easy and these cutscenes attached to their fights mostly kills the action instead of at least giving you something cool to see or at least make you press some buttons and pay attetion to the screen with QTEs.

MGR:R: Revengeance mode disappointed me with the boss fights, but i'm not finished with my Revengeance playthrough until now and i think it's worth mentioning it (i'm playing Deus Ex: Human Revolution, i get it for free on Plus and discovered a pretty good game). I think the bosses designs in MGR are fairly good, but in Revengeance mode they've put a drastic empashis on perfect parrys or triggering the special events with QTE, i mean: imagine if for each just release on DMC3 you take out 40% ou 50 % from the bosses health; it's just lame in that aspect and i really disliked it because it's way overpowered even talking about a just-frame mechanic; but the other aspects of the combat are fairly balanced, fun and have a good complexity althought the combo system is fairly shallow compared to any recent games of the DMC franchise (DmC, DMC4 and DMC3).

I liked more MGR:R because that game ended giving me challenge even in my first playthrough on hard, and it's one of the things that i like a lot in hack'n'slash games. Still, i'm not sure if i will play MGR:R the same ammount of time i played DMC3 and are willing to play DMC4; but i think it was worth the 25 U$ and i still have to experiment a lot of things in this game (i barely used some secondary weapons like Sundowner's one)

 

[ToCool74]

With what happens sometimes, even the most innocent of threads or opinions can become a full out war in a matter of minutes or pages.

It all boils down to the members really, by that i mean those who can't accept that someone has a different opinion than their own and feel the need to belittle and downplay others in favor of their own.

This happens on both sides of the fence actually, people who like and dislike DmC.

 

[OppressedWriter]

About the combat itself, i have some complaints about these two games:

DmC: Enemy design is horrible, seriously, most of the monsters have gimmicks that prove themselves utterly meaningless or just poor-designed: like the parrys from the Dreamrunners/Drekavacs that gives the player no clues that they're coming out but are easily bypassed simple by overusing the darts from Kablooey...

I still don't understand what you mean about dreamrunners? There is a variety of ways you can dominate them, and if you don't know how or when they will parry you won't be able to do that. I was the one that posted that vid showing you how you can take out a dreamrunner in several ways; kabloeey was just one of them.

Also, the enemies are more challenging in the overall groups that they spawn with. For example, Dreamrunners mixed in with a witch requires more skill than just taking out a Dreamrunner by itself. Throw in different types of enemies and it becomes a different battle altogether.

Here is an example of a dreamrunner dominated without Kablooey in totally different way.


Skip to :42, and then explain to me what your complaint exactly is?

P.S. Deus Ex is an excellent game, glad to see you enjoying it.

 

[Stylish Nero]

Hmm,it's kinda even for me more or less between DmC and Bayonetta. DmC succeeds in many areas, while Bayonetta excells at one (and sucks balls in the rest.) DmC gets a flat rate across the board for a passing grade, while Bayonetta passes only for knocking one or two aspects out the park.

DmC for me had meh/fun and tight gameplay, a story I more or less enjoyed playing through, okay characters, and rather surprisingly fun platforming sections. It was more or less average or above it.

But if DmC was a flat line on a graph, Bayonetta was an immediate high spike to followed by a drop off the grid itself.

What I got out of that is that your insinuating is that at the end of the day DmC is a better game than Bayonetta?

Whether if that is the intent of the comment and this is not directed towards to you but....noooo.

I played both and DmC is a straight line that drops down 10 points on the y axis an is now in the fourth quadrant after consecutive playthroughs or replays you discover more of DmC problems outside the basic stuff you can see in the fist or two playthroughs but after you discover all its problems it stops dropping for it can't get any worst.

Bayonetta EXCELS in more than just one or two areas it has DmC beat when it comes to content (costumes, abilities, items, hidden secrets, weapons, and etc) and has more content on disc than DmC ever did.

Bayonetta beats DmC when it comes to boss fights. Granted they're not amazing...well Jeanne and Balder were amazing or the best but still are better than the scripted bore that is DmC. DmC's boss fights are cool to look at but lacks any depth or much fun fighting them while Bayonetta's boss fights are a cool to watch and fight. Granted Bayonetta boss fights are filled with QTEs but DmC boss fights are scripted as hell and I don't see the difference between the 2. When Poison, Mundus, Spawn, and Bob is down and a color flashes on them telling you what to do they might as well flash press "L2 + X" or "RT + X" for it wouldn't have changed anything. Bosses in Bayonetta put up much more of a challenge and if I can one hit KO a boss by using not a glitch but a mechanic programmed to work like that (demon dodge) you need to go back to game design school 101 and retake "How to make balance game mechanics" and "Decent Boss Fights" class again.

As for DmC's platforming....it was nothing special it was barely good (okay at best). Its basically demon grapple this, angel whip over here, angel glide over there, and angel glide on this rinse and repeat with the next gimmick or death trap (pits, firewalls, or extremely slow moving walls and environments) that TRIES to kill you. Although the giant laser beam and color shifting panels on Lilith's stage was cool....the first 2 times after you realized the laser beam will only kill....no hit you if you don't move or barely try to escape it and that the color panels are almost as annoying as color coded enemies and the best way to avoid them is to use aerial combat which is easy as SH*T in this game taking away the challenge of the gimmick anyway. I find the gravity field area in the Ithavol building stage with the disappearing panels and the collapsing ruins and the battle on the highway (Route 666) as more interesting platforming sections that DmC rinse and repeat gimmicks. Plus platforming in a non-platforming game in my book is classified as extras/set pieces and I classify Bayonetta's motorcycle, Joy chase, and rocket missile sections as such and DmC doesn't compare cause man those set pieces are epic as hell and interesting breath of fresh air (although I did hated gun turret section that was pure balls), DmC's were just rinse and repeat of pulling this, whipping over there, and angel gliding when the game literally tells you to.

Plus the Bayonetta does a better job of the environments trying to kill you than DmC did with speeding cars (died a lot there but its mostly due to the Joys giving me trouble), falling debris, magma rocks falling from the sky, collapsing bridges, flowing lava, the rising electrified water in the plane stage, JEANNE using her own Wicked Weave trying to stop you while your on the plane,

DmC's platforming is basically playing Sonic Generations (or any new Sonic platforming game nowadays) with the Omochao hints and the button prompts on....but not as fun. This even applies to some of the boss fights.

I can go on about balance/challenge but no point.

Bayonetta does suck in a few categories (story...but it depends to me it was okay, characters....mostly Bayonetta, pacing...some parts got a bit boring, terrible and too much QTEs...press X to not die, BOSS RE-ENCOUNTERS that makes DMC1/DMC4/Okami boss rematches forgivable,
F****CKKKKIIIIIIING ESSCCCCOOOOOORRRTTTT MIISSSSIIIIIOOOOOONNNNSSSSSS!!!!!!
and some cheap ideas such as insta-kill moves, enemies attacking during cutscenes, and the extreme dependency on Witch Time) but either EXCEL in or beats DmC's round bottom that it burst in redness in a lot of categories (combat system, cooler weapons/items, unlockables/content, boss fights, balance/challenge, and far better, exciting, and thrilling set pieces/extra sh*t).

In later playthroughs, you'll discover that Bayonetta has much more to offer for more consecutive playthroughs Bayonetta's line rises up back on the grid and passes DmC and stops at a decent point because all the cutscenes you have to skip does get annoying....and the QTEs do get in the way but DmC suffers from the same problems (maybe not the QTEs).



Oh wait I forgot the magic phrase "Its only my opinion".

 

[VineBigBoss]

I still don't understand what you mean about dreamrunners? There is a variety of ways you can dominate them, and if you don't know how or when they will parry you won't be able to do that. I was the one that posted that vid showing you how you can take out a dreamrunner in several ways; kabloeey was just one of them.

Also, the enemies are more challenging in the overall groups that they spawn with. For example, Dreamrunners mixed in with a witch requires more skill than just taking out a Dreamrunner by itself. Throw in different types of enemies and it becomes a different battle altogether.

Here is an example of a dreamrunner dominated without Kablooey in totally different way.


Skip to :42, and then explain to me what your complaint exactly is?

P.S. Deus Ex is an excellent game, glad to see you enjoying it.

I could go more in-depth with this later because i'm kinda busy these days with my studies and searching for a job that fits with my life as it is right now. As always, i'll use DMC3 to compare these parrying gimmicks: mainly Vergil and Arachne gimmicks comes to my mind to be good comparisons, i wish i could make some videos to show you what i'll talk about, but i think there's sufficient footage on YouTube and some other forums to bring here.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I could go more in-depth with this later because i'm kinda busy these days with my studies and searching for a job that fits with my life as it is right now. As always, i'll use DMC3 to compare these parrying gimmicks: mainly Vergil and Arachne gimmicks comes to my mind to be good comparisons, i wish i could make some videos to show you what i'll talk about, but i think there's sufficient footage on YouTube and some other forums to bring here.

Okay, you already showed me those vids, I"m still confused as to what you're expecting? What's the problem, you can take care of dreamrunners in multiple ways? Using various styles, techniques, moves in the game depending on how skilled you are at using all the techniques. What exactly makes them uninteresting enemies when this happens to be the case?

I mean I've shown you how to kill a dreamrunner with no kabloeey, with kabloeey, no parries, with parries, with just guns, with no guns, with movement, with no movement, in the air, on the ground, standing in one area? How are you limited in anyway when you fight them?

 

[EvilX-81]

What I got out of that is that your insinuating is that at the end of the day DmC is a better game than Bayonetta?

Whether if that is the intent of the comment and this is not directed towards to you but....noooo.

What I mean is if you scored all of DmC's aspects, altogether they would net a passing grade. Bayonetta on the otherhand would net a passing grade too, but only because they scored a perfect in two areas and failed the rest. pretty much everything you mentioned, bosses, challenge, the variety of gameplay and such that I don't mention otherwise I probably file under "gameplay", which is basically mostly anything that is not story or cinematics related.

I think I disagree with your opinion on platforming though; I enjoyed whipping around and **** on DmC. It wasn't confusing like DMC3 on my first playthrough (f*ck those annoying bullshit misleading camera hints and occasionally confusing backtracking RRRGGGHHH), and it wasn't trying to be too clever for it's own good and winding up tedious to get through like Bayonetta in a few places.

As an aside, I enjoy the core gameplay of both games about equally, maybe with Bayonetta taking the lead. They have fun, easy, intuitive and loose gameplay, and it feels good to jump, combo, dodge, strategize, etc, more than any game before them, even the DMCs (I'm trying to action roll, not backflip-- ARRRGGHH!). They knocked that out of the park.

I would even say, excel... but....

With being able to dodge cancel out of 90% of your moves, basically whenever you get hit, it's your fault... or it would be, if the camera wasn't constantly trying to ignore the enemy I'M LOCKED ON TO RIGHT INFRONT OF ME IN THE DISTANCE. Maybe that's why, while the boss fights were awesome, I'm not so enamored, especially with the Jeanne boss fights which seemed to have something f*cking up what could've been an otherwise thrilling challenge, usually the camera that I have to constantly readjust, which is the last thing I need to deal with in an NSIC run. For me, that was a major issue, and hampered my enjoyment, which never got in my way in DmC, at least not to such an extreme extent.

I agree though, bosses were unbelievably boring and one note in DmC.

I find the gravity field area in the Ithavol building stage with the disappearing panels and the collapsing ruins and the battle on the highway (Route 666) as more interesting platforming sections that DmC rinse and repeat gimmicks.

Yea... f*ck those levels. Platforming in a brawler for me, is just something to entertain you while you get the next fighting section. it can be as clever as it want, so long as it doesn't get in the way.

I played both and DmC is a straight line that drops down 10 points on the y axis an is now in the fourth quadrant after consecutive playthroughs or replays you discover more of DmC problems outside the basic stuff you can see in the fist or two playthroughs but after you discover all its problems it stops dropping for it can't get any worst.

Heh. This is basically me on my consecutive runs of Bayonetta on the harder difficulties.