DMC 1 Mundus vs DmC Mundus

[TWOxACROSS]

The only reason DmC Mundus drew power from the Hell Gate was because he was pulling that power from his soul, which was sitting safely beyond the Hell Gate (that's why he's immortal). Once the Hell Gate was shut, his soul was shoved into the human world and into Kyle Ryder, his vessel. Anything he does via the Hell Gate is really just something he does :x

 

[EllDawn]

I'd say it would be more like a tie. As someone said earlier the two of them are pretty equal. If the new Mundus wasn't in the human world, facing the original Mundus in hell like you do in the game, neither would win. At least it wouldn't be a true victory. One might get the other trapped, but they could never actually kill each other. DmC Mundus can only be killed by a nephilim and, last I knew, the original isn't one. He wouldn't have any chance in killing him. The original Mundus goes dormant for a while to recover from a fight. Chances are the new Mundus could make the original go dormant, giving him the chance to cause as much damage as he wants.

If they faced each other in the human world, who knows. It changes plenty. And since I'm not entirely sure of what weaknesses the original Mundus had, it's hard to tell. Then again he was stopped in the human world with the combined power of two demons. I'd be more likely to say it depends on who strikes first at the right time. More has to be done to kill the new Mundus. He might stop the original before he can cut him off from the hell gate.

 

[Tiran]

With all things considered, as awesome as DMC1 Mundus's flashiness and looks and presentation seemed, he never extended his reach past a small castle on a tiny island- and only After having had his rear-end previously handed to him years before. He only dreamed and planned on world domination while DmC Mundus had, in the beginning of the story, actually conquered the world and had NEVER before experienced a defeat. You can't judge true power by the smoke and mirrors of vast spectacle. The strongest are the ones who actually succeed.

 

[The crazy demon]

DMC1 Mundus, it took Dante the power of Sparda to defeat him (I still think that Mundus faked his dead at the lava fight dat arsehole D:< ) and Sparda is pretty much the most powerful being in the original DMC universe.

DmC Mundus was the emperor of demons with an army at his back and some weird immortality, but what he showed in his boss fight was nothing like what the original showed us at his.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

As Tiran pointed out - DMC Mundus has a lot of glitz and glamour; things that don't necessarily make one powerful. Mundus battle in DMC1 was very much a spectacle, just for the sake of it. And I don't think you can really fault DmC Mundus as "weak" because of bad combat programming.

This would come out to more of a narrative display than how we fight them in their respective games.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

DmC Mundus. Unlike DMC1 Mundus, DmC Mundus was immortal and couldn't die. DMC1 Mundus could. Not only that, but he could just pull Mundus apart using Limbo piece by piece. DMC1 Mundus can only create illusions and dimensions within the castle. Mundus can use the rest of the world as a weapon.

 

[berto]

DmC Mundus. Unlike DMC1 Mundus, DmC Mundus was immortal and couldn't die.

DMC1's Mundus isn't dead, DmC's is. I'll try not to sound snide but isn't that a mistake on the very definition of 'immortal?' Mundus in DMC can only be sealed into the demonic real, nether Dante nor Sparda ever managed to 'killed' him.

Not only that, but he could just pull Mundus apart using Limbo piece by piece. DMC1 Mundus can only create illusions and dimensions within the castle. Mundus can use the rest of the world as a weapon.

People keep saying this but the logic is flawed. The only reason his influence only extends as far as the castle is because that's where the bridge between the two worlds he created is. Mudus is sealed away in to the underworld, if he wasn't his power would spread just as easily in the human world as well as the demon allowing him to do what he does in his realm here. If the seal were broken he'd be no less powerful in the human world, he's been here before.

PS: I don't think it was Mundus who created the illusions and warped dimensions in Melet Island, I think it was a side effect of demonic presence, like an infection.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

DMC1's Mundus isn't dead, DmC's is. I'll try not to sound snide but isn't that a mistake on the very definition of 'immortal?' Mundus in DMC can only be sealed into the demonic real, nether Dante nor Sparda ever managed to 'killed' him.

DmC Mundus can only be killed by a Nephilim. And immortal in this case means you can't die. with DMC1, you could kill Mundus, but Dante wasn't strong enough to do it like Sparda could. So...seal 'em back up.

People keep saying this but the logic is flawed. The only reason his influence only extends as far as the castle is because that's where the bridge between the two worlds he created is. Mudus is sealed away in to the underworld, if he wasn't his power would spread just as easily in the human world as well as the demon allowing him to do what he does in his realm here. If the seal were broken he'd be no less powerful in the human world, he's been here before.

True, but since DMC Mundus is still sealed in the actual statue and can't get out anymore, that still gives DmC Mundus an upper hand because he can use the literal world of Limbo as a weapon.

 

[berto]

DmC Mundus can only be killed by a Nephilim. And immortal in this case means you can't die. with DMC1, you could kill Mundus, but Dante wasn't strong enough to do it like Sparda could. So...seal 'em back up.

But that's my point, how can you be immortal if you are dead?

I get that Mundus (big M) isn't immortal ether since it has never been stated that he is but mundus (little m) can't claim immortality at his own funeral.

True, but since DMC Mundus is still sealed in the actual statue and can't get out anymore, that still gives DmC Mundus an upper hand because he can use the literal world of Limbo as a weapon.

I don't think he's sealed into a statue, I think that was just a form he took. Also, isn't that a handicap scenario? the idea is for them to fight at their best, not one when he's at his lowest and the other at his best. Mundus at his best has meteors, shields, lava dragons, and lasers. mundus at his best is concealed in concrete, spews lava and shoots energy balls and when you brake his arms he sticks his weak point right at your face.

 

[Stylish Nero]

True, but since DMC Mundus is still sealed in the actual statue and can't get out anymore, that still gives DmC Mundus an upper hand because he can use the literal world of Limbo as a weapon.

You do know the conditions of the fight were that if DMC Mundus were freed and fought DmC Mundus head on like he did Dante and not still stuck in a statue.

Then there is the issue with that since DMC Mundus is sealed in the Underworld the only way DmC Mundus can fight him is if he head into the Underworld and fought him and he would lose the advantage of manipulating Limbo since he is in hell and hell is not Limbo.

Also, Mundus can unseal himself it just takes time and also head into the Human World.

Plus due to DMC Mundus ability to create a warped reality and trap people in it wouldn't he be able to do so in Limbo and trap DmC Mundus in it cutting off connection to the real world or Limbo and maybe even the Hell Gate.

So I still don't get the hell gate immortality thing. Due to the hell gate he is immortal due to the fact the hell gate consumes human souls and uses them as a power source so the power of the hell gate is really human souls and nothing connected to hell itself....well sort of. Plus wouldn't Mundus need to be near to the Hell Gate to draw power from it and if not and he is somehow connected to it via a spiritual link.

Plus even with Limbo as a liability what makes you think with Limbo he can defeat DMC Mundus if he couldn't kill DmC Dante with Limbo? What is he going to do open up a huge hole in the city to drop Mundus in it? I mean Lilith could've manipulated Limbo and she still got her a$$ kicked by Dante no sweat.

Plus fights must also incorporate tactics into it. All DMC Mundus would need to know is that DmC Mundus is immortal unless the hell gate is destroyed and all he needs to create a demon pawn like Trish and trap DmC Mundus in the warped reality and have the demon he created destroy the hell gate. DMC Mundus isn't as stupid or impulsive as DmC Mundus considering that DMC Mundus have used a fair share of dirty tricks (Trish, that trap Nightmare set, and making him fight his own brother) and tactics to deceive Dante and kill him while DmC Mundus main downfall was caused by his own incompetence such as allowing the woman or demon who is carrying his child or heir he cares so much about walk around despite the fact a Nephilim is going around f*cking with his plans and getting duped by Dante leaving his precious Hell Gate unguarded and worst of all letting them trade Kat a person who was in his building and saw a lot making giving her away a rather huge flaw that really ultimately ended him, I would've killed Kat and just bang another demon chick to get another child (Mundus never cared about Lilith but the child and not even the child he needed a heir he didn't need a specific child). So yeah DmC Mundus isn't the brightest guy out there. DMC Mundus main flaw was the fact he ****ed off Dante too much well with Trish and made Vergil or Nelo Angelo keep the amulet allowing Dante to awaken the Sword of Sparda but I guess Mundus didn't know much about the amulet. Personally Nelo Angelo would've been more effective if his identity wasn't hidden and Dante knew from the start he was fighting his brother although it could mean that Dante could talk sense into him if seeing the amulet is enough to give him a headache and leave the fight.

DMC Mundus powers come from the existence of hell or darkness (since he was made from it) so unless you can wipe away hell or evil he will never die.

DMC Mundus situation is easy. Trap DmC Mundus in the warped reality disconnecting him from Limbo and maybe the Hell Gate and if that isn't enough send a demon (since he can create demons out of thin air like nothing) to his building and destroy the Hell Gate.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

But that's my point, how can you be immortal if you are dead?

I get that Mundus (big M) isn't immortal ether since it has never been stated that he is but mundus (little m) can't claim immortality at his own funeral.

Then I guess yeah, he's not comepletely immortal. But in this case of Mundas vs Mundas, DMC1 Mundus can't kill new Mundus because he's immotal to everything except Nephlilim.


I don't think he's sealed into a statue, I think that was just a form he took. Also, isn't that a handicap scenario? the idea is for them to fight at their best, not one when he's at his lowest and the other at his best. Mundus at his best has meteors, shields, lava dragons, and lasers. mundus at his best is concealed in concrete, spews lava and shoots energy balls and when you brake his arms he sticks his weak point right at your face.

DMC Mundus situation is easy. Trap DmC Mundus in the warped reality disconnecting him from Limbo and maybe the Hell Gate and if that isn't enough send a demon (since he can create demons out of thin air like nothing) to his building and destroy the Hell Gate.

That plan could work. Except for one problem; how are you gonna destroy the hell gate? The hell gate seems virtually indestructible to any physical attack and the only way to really seal it is to use the yamato and that would do the trick. But I don't see Mundus using a fake yamato to try and seal it.

Not only that, but there's also the issue of even if DmC Mundus was away from his Hell gate, would that make any bit of a difference with the controlling of Limbo? How do we know that just because the hell gate far away he didn't just juice himself up to a (dare I say it) over 9000 amount that could exceed old Mundus? I don't think there's a literal limit to how much Mundus could suck up in the hell gate. Plus, how do we know if when DmC Mundus is in hell, he's got all the human souls he could wish for and thus the souls he got from the hell gate mixed with the souls in hell could boost himself up to an even higher amount.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

DMC Mundus situation is easy. Trap DmC Mundus in the warped reality disconnecting him from Limbo and maybe the Hell Gate and if that isn't enough send a demon (since he can create demons out of thin air like nothing) to his building and destroy the Hell Gate.

This operates under the assumption that dragging Mundus to the underworld would sever his connection to the Hell Gate, which...well...the Hell Gate already has extraplanar capabilities. I also don't think just anything can destroy the Hell Gate - looked like the Yamato, or at least a Nephilim's power, is necessary to make that happen.

 

[Railazel]

Then I guess yeah, he's not comepletely immortal. But in this case of Mundas vs Mundas, DMC1 Mundus can't kill new Mundus because he's immotal to everything except Nephlilim.

But, by the logic, DmC Mundus can't kill DMC 1 Mundus because DMC 1 Mundus could only be defeated by Dante and Sparda and both failed to kill him. So it becomes a tie.

 

[Tiran]

Also, we don't know if DMC Mundus can drag unwilling powerful opponents into other realms. Dante wanted to follow him into battle, he wasn't dragged against his will. If DMC mundus had this ability, he would have used it. However, he do know DmC Mundus does have this ability. In fact, he can manipulate an area at LEAST the size of an entire mega metropolitan area dragging all of it into chaos at once. Once in this realm of Mundus' creation, it is possible to fall of be pushed off a platform and be trapped in the void. This is an insane power that has real game-play repercussions, and are verfiable.
DMC Mundus is merely a very powerful opponent who the protagonists failed to kill twice. There is no evidence he truly is immortal and, even so, doesn't make him greater or Garlic Jr. from DBZ would rule the universe. No. the reson he was never truly killed was plot convenience. Kamiya wanted to make a sequel (he did'nt get to) and probably wanted Mundus to return to exact his revenge on his enemy and traitorous minion before being put down for good. Any guess of immortality on his part is pure speculation derived from favoritism as his battle, admittedly, was more visually spectacular. DmC Mundus, however, we can conform that- while connected to his power source, Hell itself, he is immortal. That means that while in hell (and Limbo too, maybe) He is god.

-Note, also, We still haven't seen what he's fully capable of. Cut off from his power source, his final form in DmC was crafted from debris and human bodies and used the remaining power in Kyle Ryder's vessel as a power source. I doubt his hellish demon form thousands of years ago was a giant mess of debris, cars, building parts and human corpses.

 

[Railazel]

Also, we don't know if DMC Mundus can drag unwilling powerful opponents into other realms. Dante wanted to follow him into battle, he wasn't dragged against his will. If DMC mundus had this ability, he would have used it.

It's not a matter of whether he would but rather would he want to. For example, he could've easily killed Dante prior to him getting his brother's half of the Perfect Amulet but, seemingly, he didn't want to.

DMC Mundus is merely a very powerful opponent who the protagonists failed to kill twice. There is no evidence he truly is immortal and, even so, doesn't make him greater. No. the reson he was never truly killed was plot convenience.

But so is Mundus only being able to be defeated by Nephilim since there's no evidence that no one else couldn't seal the Hell Gate or simply go to Hell themselves and kill the source of Mundus' power.

-Note, also, We still haven't seen what he's fully capable of.

We'll never know now, he's dead. Anything more powerful than what was shown is just speculation.

 

[Tiran]

It's not a matter of whether he would but rather would he want to. For example, he could've easily killed Dante prior to him getting his brother's half of the Perfect Amulet but, seemingly, he didn't want to.

The same can be said for DmC Mundus when Dante first entered his building. He could've gone right down and ripped his heart out.


But so is Mundus only being able to be defeated by Nephilim since there's no evidence that no one else couldn't seal the Hell Gate or simply go to Hell themselves and kill the source of Mundus' power.

Actually, it was said blatantly in the game that only Nephillim can slay the demon king.



We'll never know now, he's dead. Anything more powerful than what was shown is just speculation.

Actually, it does matter in a hypothetical battle between the two demon kings where they are both alive and well. All potential cards must be considered. The fact is Mundus from DmC is only vulnerable to his enemies when cut off from the hellgate. Before that, Dante is helpless to just Kyle Ryder. Not his sword or guns or anything he could possibly do in his presence even threatened Kyle. Once the gate was closed, however, suddenly Dante was okay again and Vergil's sword hurt him even incapacitated him for a minute. If it was possible to even injure Mundus before that they would have attacked first then cut off the gate while he was incapacitated, then finished the job.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

DMC1 Mundus...OVERTHREW ARGOSAX!! AS IN FORMER DEMON EMPEROR!! DmC Mundus...wrestled with Vergil & screamed like one of his little demon b******. Methinks le battle be one-sided.

 

[Demi-fiend]

DMC1 Mundus...OVERTHREW ARGOSAX!! AS IN FORMER DEMON EMPEROR!!

When did that happen? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Not questioning you, just wondering where you saw it.

Also, I had thought since Argosax came out in the second game, that he was some sort of sub-demon that took over when Mundus was sent back to hell was therefore too weak to continue ruling.

 

[Darkstar Darin]

When did that happen? I don't remember reading that anywhere. Not questioning you, just wondering where you saw it.

Also, I had thought since Argosax came out in the second game, that he was some sort of sub-demon that took over when Mundus was sent back to hell was therefore too weak to continue ruling.

Says so in the manual for the original game (sorry but i'm entirely too lazy to find it right now)
Also, I don't remember where I read that thing about Argosax being the Emperor before Mundus...think it was in DMC2's enemy files

 

[VineBigBoss]

In a battle itself, it would be about who can destroy someone physical form first, seem that neither of them are capable of sealing or completely destroy each other (Original Mundus is immortal and can just be sealed back in the demon world, DmC Mundus has his "immortality" tied to the Hell Gate and probably absorption of human souls, neither of them can do really anything about each others immortality). I think that original Mundus takes it, when talking about power and who can destroy anothers physical form first, he seems capable of alot more than DmC Mundus, i mean, DmC Mundus power is very mundane (in the DmC universe itself, demonic power seems much more limited than in the original universe), he has brute strength, can create seismic waves with his power (probably related to his superhuman strength more than manipulation of demonic energy itself), spills lava and shoots meteors from his hand; original Mundus' destructive power revolves all around manipulation, absorption and usage of demonic energy, he can even give life to inanimate entities such as lava, he can manipulate and use demonic energy in various ways (throwing spears, massive energy that explodes, barriers, telekinesis).

And another thing that handicaps DmC Mundus (and DmC demons in general) is that he's dependent on a living vessel, while only lesser demons in DMC needs a vessel (like the Sins and Scissors), and it can be inanimated vessels such as animal skulls, sand or even scissors. The ideal scenario for this battle would be Hell itself, where the two can explore their full capabilities, but we can just have one little idea about how Mundus would be in his fully demonic form; DmC Demons in general looks more like beasts than demons itself, they are not too "supernatural"; i mean, all demons in DmC doesn't seem to use nothing that isn't in the human world itself, their attacks revolves around mundane things like smashing with brute force or spilling acid/lava (i think that exceptions to this would be the Witch and Drekavacs who have some limited supernatural capabilities?); one of the exceptions to this is Mundus, so it's really difficult to tell what is DmC Mundus full capabilities.