Describe to a curious mind, in civil fashion, why Devil May Cry eclipses Bayonetta.

[Hitorio]

So that you have an idea of who's asking and can gear your answer accordingly:

Skill Level and Experiences:
I'm a casual player of both Devil May Cry and Bayonetta, though I enjoy watching and learning the structures of high level play of both franchises.
I played both franchises in this order:
(2013) Bayonetta --> HD Collection [Devil May Cry --> Devil May Cry 2 --> Devil May Cry 3] --> (2014) Bayonetta 2 --> (2015) Devil May Cry 4: Special Edition

I tried out Bayonetta and it blew me away. I was amazed. I got into Devil May Cry because I wanted to experience the very first incarnation of its combat system. I ended up being invested in DMC's lore (****). I found Bayonetta 2 controller-droppingly incredible and developed the opinion of Bayonetta's gameplay being much more fun while DMC's lore and characters were more interesting.

I've experienced the superficialities of both combat systems, and that pool of experience is where I draw my opinion from. Browsing these forums, though, I observe an implication that Bayonetta is overrated and that Devil May Cry's combat system is amazingly deep - namely 4.
From conversational context clues on these forums, in comments sections of YouTube, and in combo videos themselves, I get the impression that Devil May Cry's combo system is much more about creatively chaining basic moves together to create a nigh-infinitude of combo possibilities whereas Bayo is more about dialing a restricted list of combos that already exist for you.

I don't know, though, and my contextual impressions don't grant me a comfortable level of competence. Do fill me in, please. This doesn't even begin to cover opinions on story differences, character and level design differences, musical preferences - etc.

 

[Erian1Mortal]

My opinions only work around the DMC franchise and Bayonetta 1 as I haven't played the second game of that series.

This is indeed a really heavy topic to discuss, mainly because many people might have different opinions on what is overated in Bayonetta or what exactly makes DMC4 deep in terms of Combat.

To me the DMC series, as you said it already @Hitorio , is more about building my own combos with a vast pool of different moves. The thing is it's a system that very few games have replicated (I can't think of any on top of my head, maybe Darksiders a little).

DMC is closer to Fighting games like Street Fighter then it is to most modern Hack&Slays like God of War while Bayonetta has a bit of both. It has Stinger like inputs that work with and without lock on. But it also has these pre defined combos that became mainstream for many games since God of War. And that last part is what makes Bayonetta less fun to me. There are quite a few cool moves but I can't incorporate them in my combos where I want them to be, which was also a problem I had with Trish's combat in DMC4SE.

While said system is good for beginners in the genre, it limits more seasoned players by a whole lot and I feel that his is the deciding factor.

On topic of Bayo being overrated, I've read that sometimes and I kinda agree with it (to a point at least). The game gets praised to heaven and back in certain places, which is where that bias might come from.
Overall I wouldn't even try to actually compare the two franchises. They might share some things but to me it's like saying apples are better then oranges. It just doesn't work like that since there is a place for both of them and one might be more suited for you while the other is more suited to someone else.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

Bayonetta and Devil May Cry are hack and slashers at their core, but with radically different experiences.

With Bayonetta, there's not THAT deep of learning combos and pulling off super difficult moves. It's a series to just pick up and play. The basic push back on the directional button to do this move or the button mashing during quicktime events to add tension to the gameplay. Your over the top wicked weave abilities makes for fighting larger then life enemies more satisfying. Bayonetta 2 was a step down when it came to difficulty since the wicked weave abilities were doubled to be used in tandem with all your regular attacks. This along with the easier button mashing for QTE's and the easier methods to using weapons, AND the downgrade of difficulty makes Bayonetta 2 not as rewarding to some.

And then there's Devil May Cry. With it's combos, there's a science to timing your attacks just right and having fast fingers in order to do it. It's a game series that involves you to study its style and practice more then once to do stylish combos. To do one move, you would need to press three buttons, or (In DMC4's case) switch styles on the fly to do specific combos, mixed with DT only attacks that have to also be used at the right time. While Devil May Cry's enemies aren't as grand scale as Bayonetta's, they do require a bit more critical thinking in order to pull off the best combos to kill them. DMC1 was a more basic type of gameplay at its core, but its the enemies that made it difficult and to this day hailed as the hardest Devil May Cry to date (if you don't count the HD collection, which brought the difficulty down) DMC2 was a complete down grade even on its hardest difficulty with the only reason it was hard was because the enemies wouldn't die quick enough. DMC3's gameplay revolutionized Devil May Cry with it's flashier attacks, and unique chains of button pressing and analyzing combos. And then DMC4 came into the mix with Dante's gameplay and turned the Devil May Cry series on its axis with its difficulty in learning moves that not even the creators had knowledge one could do. And then, of course, DmC arrives and does what Bayonetta 2 did in turning the difficulty down and making it easier to do attacks.

TL;DR Devil May Cry has a deeper combat system, while Bayonetta's fun in terms of grand scale.

But like @Erian1Mortal said; it's all opinions as to which is hailed the best.

 

[TWOxACROSS]

On a personal level, Bayonetta uses a dial-a-combo system, which I don't like as much as DMC/DmC's freeform combo system, and from what I remember, half the weapons (all the firearms) in Bayonetta (at least the first game) used the exact same attack animations. You're right about the creativity thing especially, because that's the freeform system's appeal.

So for me it was a lack of variety and a lack of freedom.

 

[berto]

I'm right there with you.

I am never going to try to become one of those players who get in deep in to the combat and learns how to jump cancel for half an hour or find ways to exploit the game's physics and animation to do with it my own thing, I like the games as is. Been that said I've played both franchises and I never understood why people thought that DMC4 had more dept than Bayonetta and therefore it was the better game.

I've gone on record to say that DMC4 and DmC are my least favorite two in the franchise so when people say that Bayonetta is worse than DMC4 it rattles my head like I just saw an episode of the Twilight Zone where the hot chick actually the ugly one. Huh?

I think a lot of people that say these things approach Bayonetta the exact same way they do DMC and they want to use the same tricks and exploited the same way so when it doesn't perform the same way they defecate on it. I'm not one those, I play the games very straight forward and Bayonetta plays like silk, smooth and fluid, hard as hell but I can do things in that game that I can't in DMC. Bottom line I'm not in agreement with those players, I don't think DMC4 is better than Bayonetta, I think it's one of the worst of the DMC games and all these expert moves they can pull off with it doesn't fix all the issues it has.

In respond to the other underlining question, why is Bayonetta eclipsed by DMC, well, of the two franchises DMC is still my favorite so I'm provably somewhat bias but here's the thing, DMC started out in 2001 to a hugely positive reception, it made an impact on the gaming world and launched a thousand and two imitators, like God of War, and while Bayonetta has a higher success rate DMC has a much longer history and the two games that are good were so good that they had an impact similar to a meteor impact. The lores of both are interesting but DMC has had more time to build theirs, too. You said it yourself, the lore of DMC is more interesting than the Bayonetta lore.

Most people like to bitch and moan about the story in Bayonetta games, that it's super silly, even compared to DMC3 and 4, and, yeah, that's saying something, but honestly, it's not the stories that I tent to gravitate to with these particular games, it's the main characters. Bayonetta is sassy and fierce and I love that about her, the ludicrously silly sex appeal never made me laugh, to be quite honest, but all in all the woman is blast to play with and fun to be around but compare to Dante she's not that interesting. Dante isn't just a fun loving criminal, he has more sides that Bayonetta does, and in a sea full of characters who if they had his back story would be drunk or drug fulled mopey crybabies, vindictive brutilizers, overpowered bullies, or debilitated because their life is hard, he isn't defined by it but rather by this forward momentum full confidence and fueled by canned whoop ass. Bayonetta is just as much a bad ass but she's not that interesting by contrast. They both smile at adversity and don't just welcome it, they run to it like children to an ice cream truck, but since the beginning Dante has always had more to him than Bayonetta has.

So, yeah, it's not really the gameplay that puts DMC ahead of Bayonetta, it's history, personality, lore, and protagonist. Bayonetta also had the misfortune that the WiiU wasn't as successful as the PS4 and XB1 so people didn't play it. I didn't get to play until recently and I only did so for 4 days because I wasn't going to invest on a WiiU just for her. Bayonetta can be as big as DMC but with only 2 games, one which is limited to a council that isn't popular and the other is infamous for having the worst PS3 build in history compared to it's 360 counterpart, 1 not good anime, and 2 cameos/playable in 2 other games (that I know of) versus DMC's five games, one comic series, 3 novels, 2 mangas, 5 cameos/playable in 5 other games, 1 stage play, several dishes, deserts, main dishes, and drinks, and referenced or used as DLC in numerous other games as costumes, color schemes, names, and designs in a hand full of games, including Bayonetta, then, well, when you see that then she clearly has some catching up to do.

 

[V's patron]

I would say the story of DMC especially the first is more focused and generally the humor in DMC lands better than Bayonetta 1 did.

Bayonetta has a more developed lore with in depth entries. I prefer DMC's cast but in recent entries they started to be grating so YMMV.

I did feel more rewarded beating Bayonetta than DMC4. People have said Bayonetta 2 and the anime movie are improvements with the stories.

 

[Foxtrot94]

Devil May Cry's combo system is much more about creatively chaining basic moves together to create a nigh-infinitude of combo possibilities whereas Bayo is more about dialing a restricted list of combos that already exist for you.

Got your answer right there. In regards to why DMC's combat (4's especially) is deeper than Bayo's, Erian and Dragon already said what you needed to know. Which doesn't mean that DMC4 is the better game, we all know how flawed it is, yet its combat system remains unparalleled to this day. No other Hack and Slash does it like DMC, playing so much like a fighting game, as Erian said. It's unique.

As for the more general question, why DMC eclipses Bayonetta, aside from the deeper gameplay, it's simply cause DMC's been around for longer. That gives it a considerable advantage when it comes to its recognition and popularity, I thought that much was obvious.