cops kill a man threatening to kill...himself...wait what?

[LordOfDarkness]

Since when have cops (on the whole) acted humane recently?

Even so, the point is they should do. Surely you would agree?

 

[Demi-fiend]

Even so, the point is they should do. Surely you would agree?

Everyone should be humane period. But we're certainly not going to be able browbeat them into being remorseful either, are we? Not to mention, the courts aren't holding them accountable. They're not even getting a slap on the wrist for any of this.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

-snip-

Kinda answered your own question there. :/

Wouldn't it make sense that a Doctor would know more about the correct dosage than the average police man?

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

If hospital doctors & nurses can find the correct dosage for mentally ill or those in psychiatric wards then why can't police when it comes to restraining criminals.

Yes they've have to get the dosage right but i'm not seeing how a bullet would be better.

If it was you @DreadnoughtDT would you rather be shot with a bullet or tranq dart ?

I never said bullets were the better choice. I was simply saying why tranquilizers are not as readily used. Do not deliberately misinterpret me to turn this into an argument. This is a discussion, not two grown men bickering at each other over the internet.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Be careful when you read this kind of news since I landed a volunteer job at my local Public Defenders office. I've learned a few things about all kinds of legal cases. One thing that stands out about police brutality cases. Look up the district court records first. No matter the studio, no matter the political stance, media reports tend to leave things out because the public has Been eating this kind of story up. Daily Beast is a pretty big offender.
I decided to check St. John's county records https://doris.clk.co.st-johns.fl.us/benchmarkweb/ notably, this case doesn't have a file to this specific case from any of the names mentioned in the file.. Hell, the most recent of the 3 names mentioned was Justin's with a traffic offense. I'd really consider waiting for a case file before we all jump to conclusions.
EDIT: Considering how I'm not really certified and get most of my legal knowledge from the office., I could ask the attorney I was assigned to about this, though considering the things I've heard about Florida state law compared to other states, he may not know much, Florida law is damn crazy when it comes to self defense.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

@Malik Robinson
You missed my point, if doctors are trained to determine the right dosage then why not train law enforcement on it as well.

Again, even as a rookie whose legal knowledge consists of what he learned from local attorneys and public records, I can tell you that Florida is... trigger happy when it comes to self defense.
There's even a common joke about how the Florida self defense laws pretty much boil down to "shoot first."
That's why no one in legal land was surprised when George Zimmerman got an acquittal
Again, I have a feeling the article really tried to push the narrative of this especially considering it quotes non-experts who would have personal bias about the SCENE of the crime, but keep in mind, in Florida, the fact that he HAD the knife out was grounds to blow his brains out.

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

First off where do you think this is an argument or even bickering, stop assuming about something that isn't happening.
I'll add more LOLs if you like to make things clear to you i'm not arguing with you.



@Malik Robinson
You missed my point, if doctors are trained to determine the right dosage then why not train law enforcement on it as well.

No need to be so abrasive. Jeez.

 

[Exejpgwmv]

@Malik Robinson
You missed my point, if doctors are trained to determine the right dosage then why not train law enforcement on it as well.

Nice thought, but it might take a while to actually happen.

As others have mentioned, there is no universal dosage and tranquilizers are largely unneeded in most cop's line of work.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

One more thing, I'm really confuse now, this supposedly all went down in the St Johns district, but if that's the case, When someone is institutionalized under the Florida Baker Act, from what I've read, that's supposed to be a public record. There is no such record in the St Johns District court record for a Justin Way.
Justin's institutionalization is a major point in the article.
EDIT: never mind, apparently it was the girlfriends brother who was institutionalized

 

[Chancey289]

Cops get all that training to AVOID using their gun as it is just a last resort. There are plenty of ways to subdue someone without killing them. But these guys were just too damn trigger happy. :banghead:

 

[Exejpgwmv]

With training law enforcement could regulate dosage needed determining size & weight of the person threatening them.

​

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That's kinda the crux of it for most people. When a cop is actually in a situation that warrants the use of firearms, they don't have time to figure out the proper dosage of anything.

Most of the time, it's do or die.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Again, Florida's lenient self defense laws are to blame. I should probably bring it up, Florida has a license so that you can legally carry a concealed firearm on you, owning a handgun is one thing, hell, plenty of people keep handguns in their cars for self defense
But this is one that allows you to keep it on your person in public areas, keep in mind, this isn't like Texas where there is plenty of country and wide open range, this is Florida, a state that is urban for the most part.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I'm not suprised by this. This type of crap is so normal now that it doesn't shock me anymore. :banghead:

Again, Florida's lenient self defense laws are to blame. I should probably bring it up, Florida has a license so that you can legally carry a concealed firearm on you, owning a handgun is one thing, hell, plenty of people keep handguns in their cars for self defense
But this is one that allows you to keep it on your person in public areas, keep in mind, this isn't like Texas where there is plenty of country and wide open range, this is Florida, a state that is urban for the most part.

As a resident of Florida, I can vouch for this. We have such lenient gun control that anyone can literally walk around with a gun in their pocket as long as they got a license. And then people wonder why there's so much shooting in Florida.

 

[Chancey289]

Why is there a strong debate for the specific use of tranquilizers? This isn't Metal Gear. Like I said, the police already have tons of alternatives to subdue people before they reach for a gun. The problem is the certain officers who never consider those before pulling a trigger.

 

[Nightmare Omni]

Well in the UK Cops are extremely Taser (Trigger)Happy.

They use them for the most flimsy reasons.

And even though UK cops are starting to be issued with vest mounted Cameras and Recorders they conveniently run out of Battery or knock the off switch "accidently" whenever questionable incidents occur.

 

[Nightmare Omni]

The Gorl in that Pic.... She's a Yandere right?

 

[Exejpgwmv]

​

There's a thing where there's an incoming call from dispatch gives law enforcement a heads up on what to expect before arriving at the situation.
Just as animal control is alerted & given information before arriving at the situation as well as being trained to handle many situations without resulting in death of the animal, law enforcement could be trained to handle the situation quickly if & the need appears.

There's also non-lethal weapons besides tranq darts law enforcement has & can use as standard weapons such as stun guns, tear gas, etc.

​

Most of what you described are things that law enforcement already does, including the use of non-lethal weaponry and means of taking people down.

 

[LordOfDarkness]

@VampireWicked: Yeah exactly. Wouldn't it make more sense if the 'suspect/s' involved aren't carrying guns at the time of confrontation the police don't either so everybody is in a less lethal position. Obviously get your gun out if there's guns involved, but don't bring one to a knife fight.

@Chancey289: The "argument" isn't just based on the use of tranquilizers, it's making a point to use more humane ways to neutralize threats altogether.

Then really it should be code of practice to subdue anybody with any alternative method other than 'man has knife = blow his brains out'.

 

[mrrandomlulz]

Then really it should be code of practice to subdue anybody with any alternative method other than 'man has knife = blow his brains out'.

Again, as I've said, this isn't even a gun control issue so much as it is Florida is so damn lenient with gun laws in general. As I've said, when it comes to criminal law, Florida is terrible, any self respecting attorney who doesn't live there will tell you that.
Thing is, in my state, I'll admit our gun laws are... lenient. Hell, I got my first shotgun in middle school. But when I read up on Florida law and found out that you're allowed to CARRY the gun around, I was legitimately cautious when I went down for vacation. This year I'm even thinking of skipping out on the family trip and trying to find someone who can drive me to work during that time,

 

[Jak]

Well in the UK Cops are extremely Taser (Trigger)Happy.

They use them for the most flimsy reasons.

And even though UK cops are starting to be issued with vest mounted Cameras and Recorders they conveniently run out of Battery or knock the off switch "accidently" whenever questionable incidents occur.

i'd much rather get shocked by a taser than shot with a bullet