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Banned Mormon Cartoon

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium

I don't mean any offense to any of the religious folk here. My cousin recently converted to Mormonism at the age of 18 and is going off to study at the University of Utah (pretty much the Mormon state in the USA if you did not know).

It just boggles my mind that there are people out there who would blindly follow something even after finding things like this video. Scientology was still alive and kicking last I checked, and that South Park episode was nothing short of eye-opening to most of the general public.

Can't imagine being so obsessed with something that you just ignore facts or evidence that might shake your faith. I can respect acknowledging and accepting that they exist, but choosing to remain faithful despite them. It's when you just right out ignore it because you know that it'll burst your belief system.

For the record: no I have not shown this to my cousin. I'm just letting sleeping dogs lie on that one, since there are plenty of people in the family who are closer to him and would have spoken up if they felt like it was a mistake.
 

Osaka

trollololol
Damn! If only I'd have seen this a few months ago or so. I know someone who'd love to see this lol.

Wow..... I never knew. Kinda lost for words with the Mormons ideas and faith. You seen The Book Of Mormon by any chance? Funny songs.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I think about it this way. Why do we get so bothered about what people believe? If they told you they don't want to go out with a coat on in the snow, or if they say they're going to drive home after a pint, or if they do something else you don't see as especially logical, would you still give them the same amount of disapproval? Probably not. We'd just write off their choice and behaviour as a bit dumb - in our opinion - but would we get so worked up?

Probably not.

If someone wants to do - or believe in - something completely ridiculous, that's their business, as long as they don't try to infect anyone else with their weirdness. Of course, if I knew anyone who still believes the world is flat or whatever, I'd have to take their opinions with a pinch of salt and be wary of their judgement because a logical perspective is a sensible one, and I like to be sensible. . But since their judgements are theirs, as long as they aren't responsible for me in body, I realize being bothered about what they think is pointless.

People do nonsensical things all the time, unconsciously or otherwise, but often because we just go on emotion, pleasure seeking or looking for 'the easy way' around something even if we're not smart enough to know whether the easy way is really that easy. I'm not sure why religion gets so much attention in the 'irrationality dept.' compared to some of the other bizarre things people think and do.
 

Eric

Great Demon King of Evil
I believe in The Book of Ganon because I wrote it.
But with all srsnuss, what the hell?
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
I think about it this way. Why do we get so bothered about what people believe? If they told you they don't want to go out with a coat on in the snow, or if they say they're going to drive home after a pint, or if they do something else you don't see as especially logical, would you still give them the same amount of disapproval? Probably not. We'd just write off their choice and behaviour as a bit dumb - in our opinion - but would we get so worked up?

Probably not.

If someone wants to do - or believe in - something completely ridiculous, that's their business, as long as they don't try to infect anyone else with their weirdness. Of course, if I knew anyone who still believes the world is flat or whatever, I'd have to take their opinions with a pinch of salt and be wary of their judgement because a logical perspective is a sensible one, and I like to be sensible. . But since their judgements are theirs, as long as they aren't responsible for me in body, I realize being bothered about what they think is pointless.

You're probably right, and it is absolutely healthier to have that outlook. I may have the self-control to react that way over the internet, where it is not a real-time conversation, but in real life it does bother me. I would say something in both of those scenarios because I wouldn't want anyone to wind up with hypothermia, a DUI, or a drunk driving accident because I was too laid-back to say anything. Same goes for someone who's heavily religious if I were to suddenly feel like they were doing things for the wrong reasons. Maybe it's a twisted sense of wanting to help my fellow-man or maybe I'm just as arrogant and recruiter-happy as someone with a WWJD bumper sticker: choice is up to you. Granted, I wouldn't meet a Mormon and say "Oh, you're Mormon are you? Boy do I have a youtube video you've gotta see!" It does bother me when I feel like I'm being judged based on such a broken belief system and that's usually where things can get ugly.

People do nonsensical things all the time, unconsciously or otherwise, but often because we just go on emotion, pleasure seeking or looking for 'the easy way' around something even if we're not smart enough to know whether the easy way is really that easy. I'm not sure why religion gets so much attention in the 'irrationality dept.' compared to some of the other bizarre things people think and do.
Stunting scientific discovery and waging holy war, I would assume. But everything has an ugly side. I'm all for faith in the sense that it helps your psychological health to leave certain things to being just the power of the almighty and not something that was within your control, but man... sometimes talking to the mega-<insert just about any religion here> I feel like I just stepped into the twilight zone.

You seen The Book Of Mormon by any chance? Funny songs.
Seen, no. My brother bought the CD so I've heard a good amount of it, funny stuff.
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
Over the years I've felt the same way as you but it never amounted to anything. It bothered me that some people would try to change what I believed (or rather, didn't believe), so I figured I shouldn't interfere with what they do. . . and when I did try to reason with people, well... at best it was stimulating discourse and at worst a headache and a total waste of time (often it can just strengthen a person's beliefs to have them opposed). I don't think I've ever changed anyone's life or beliefs, and not through lack of trying. I just failed every time. People's own inner voice is always stronger I suppose.

In the hypothetical, I'd advise a coat in the cold and not driving drunk... but I know people who do these silly things regardless and it's hard to force them to do what I want - it would be wrong and probably impossible to force them. I can guess how you must feel about your cousin - my mother for example often used to talk about suicide, but such is my personal code that I feel it's wrong to instantly impress any anti-suicide message onto a suicidal person when they have a total right to talk about taking their own life, or to take it if they want to. If you don't have a right to choose to live or die, what are you? A robot? A slave? And I agree that if you want to kill yourself, nobody should start ramming their rhetoric down your throat because they want to 'help' you, or bang you up in a cell. I've felt suicidal once before and I love my mother, but neither of these things mean that I have the right to make her do and believe what *I* think she should. Don't get me wrong, I would help if I could. But something always stops me from believing my own ideas so important and so righteous that I should impose them forcibly on someone else. And... in the same way, nobody is allowed to do the same to me. . . know what I mean? It's frustrating, totally, but in the end, every person is his/her own, and you can't change what is in their head.

I think that nobody can really say their belief is absolutely right and others are wrong - even if you could, it's ultimately irrelevant unless you intended on removing other people's free will, which is impossible. At the end of the day life still goes on even in ignorance. Religion's got a dirty past, but what hasn't that ever was concocted in the mind of 'rational' adults?
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
Wow. That's kind of like when my aunt was persuaded that she's an Israelite. She believed black people had no souls.

Which is hilarious if you consider dark skinned people have more 'soul' than the rest of us. >.<
 

aka958

Don't trust people
Wow...
Segregation and a wish to become a god?

Looks like some are stuck in dreamland. Kirby's dreamland that is.
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
All I can say is, anyone who has ever given birth will know that the idea of "spawning for eternity" is as close to Hell as you can probably get...
 

aka958

Don't trust people
All I can say is, anyone who has ever given birth will know that the idea of "spawning for eternity" is as close to Hell as you can probably get...

Obviously not according to mormorism. Or at least it isn't when you are celestial they say.
And mormorism isn't like whatever religion you had in mind, since it is it's own religion. :p
New religions spawn out of the same ideas and beliefs like god, adam and eve and all those at first because of a disagreement to the existing religion. Maybe this was one of them?
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
I suppose I have to say that I see a difference between this kind of religiousness (Mormon, for example) or David Icke's Reptilian Space Pope stuff, which sort of borders on it, or on the same kind of cosmos storytelling... and something like Scientology.

I mean, Scientology was apparently created for the sole reason of extorting money and labour out of people, admitted by its creator. I'd read quite a bit about Scientology before, a lot of which was disturbing (especially about the boats) but nothing I could really see for myself in real life to have any idea if it was true or not. Then last year I discovered that there's a large hotel run by Scientologists in my village, and the stories I have heard about them frankly bothered me a lot, since I live only 700 metres from these people and nobody has a good word to say for them. After a bit of research I discovered more about them and their hotel than I really wanted to know. >_>

A religion or offshoot of an existing religion that doesn't exist solely to (ab)use people is one thing. A religion or cult that does is disgusting. You'd think people would be able to see through abusing religions but their missionaries are devious people. Even the people at the hotel are apparently skilled in manipulation and psychology tricks that make people feel pressured into agreeing with them, and more importantly buying from them (they try to sell very bad art for five figure sums, and I mean bad). If only more people could spot the signs of being manipulated, but there seems to be a tendency within humans at large to put their own faculties aside and believe in others, even against better judgement.
 

Vergil'sBitch

I am Nero's Mom & Obsessed fan girl
Premium
I always thought religions were based on the thing of, Someone says 'your religion is wrong, so I'll make my own religion'. And then Someone says to that person, 'your religion is wrong, so I'll make my own religion'. So on a so forth.

We all have our own beliefs, no one should force their's on anyone else (believe me, I got it once on REN.)

Wow...
Segregation and a wish to become a god?

Looks like some are stuck in dreamland. Kirby's dreamland that is.

aka, your post suddenly reminded me of Arkham.
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
I mean, Scientology was apparently created for the sole reason of extorting money and labour out of people, admitted by its creator. I'd read quite a bit about Scientology before, a lot of which was disturbing (especially about the boats) but nothing I could really see for myself in real life to have any idea if it was true or not. Then last year I discovered that there's a large hotel run by Scientologists in my village, and the stories I have heard about them frankly bothered me a lot, since I live only 700 metres from these people and nobody has a good word to say for them. After a bit of research I discovered more about them and their hotel than I really wanted to know. >_>
Would you be able to go into a little more detail? My understanding of Scientology is pretty generalized. I know that they operate on a pyramid scheme, I know what was disclosed courtesy of South Park, and I know that they do their best to isolate members. The isolation thing, I think, is used when one of your family or friends try to tell you to get the hell out and you're put in a situation of choosing between your financial/religious investment and those who love you.

But a scientology... hotel? Like some twisted Hubbard-rehab dormitory?
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
The general stuff/'horror stories' about Scientology you can find online easy enough, the pressuring of members to either bring their friends & families into the Scientology fold or else cut them out of their lives forever and to only socialize with other Scientologists; the expensive audits and paying money to have enough audits to be 'cleansed' enough to have different tiers of 'truth' revealed to them (apparently deliberately bankrupting members); the long work hours for meagre pay and the way normal medicine and medical help is forbidden to followers if they get sick; the groups of them that supposedly live on ocean boats out of the reach of the law where they can make members work like slaves, the pressure and deliberate manipulation they are supposed to practice on new recruits... all that stuff is related out there. I don't know how true all that is. All I can say is that some of what I know of these local Scientologists agrees with some of it and strengthens that picture.

It's not a "Scientology hotel" in name or anything - to all appearances, it's a normal-looking English hotel that looks like a 60s-style pebbledashed thing, calling itself "luxury" and charging luxury rates to stay there. In actuality it looks very shabby on the outside and inside it is supposedly even shabbier. The rooms aren't luxury and rather than having luxury furniture in the expensive ones, the furniture is apparently old, and they have no sinks or working toilets. A lot of people have mentioned in their reviews that instead, a plastic portable toilet like an airline toilet sits in the corner of each room's bathroom, and the rooms are cold and drab. It is called the "Camelot Castle" hotel (you can Google it... for lulz try this: Google "Camelot Castle Hotel reviews" and compare the reviews on their official site with the overwhelmingly negative ones in other places... or maybe just Google "worst hotel in Tintagel" and see what comes up XD). It was bought by a couple of Scientologists a few years back for roughly £1 million. Where they got a million to throw around like that, you tell me - the rest of their fold maybe, and their extortion rackets?

You'd think they'd run the place like a normal hotel if they were interested in running a business that could - given its foundations and location - generate a lot of money; for one thing, smarten it up, but they show no interest in doing that. Instead, the hotel seems to be more of an occasional meeting place for people, and otherwise doesn't get any more guests than they can fool with nice pictures on their website (apparently at one point, their website inserted a picture of a beach in the Algarve instead of the tiny, cold, pebbly beach that sits under Camelot Castle in reality). They're not above lying that blatantly! Any bad reviews they remove for their site right away. But you can find plenty about the dishevelled appearance and poor value for money of the hotel from guest accounts, and I can well believe it. I've been near enough to it to get a look at the interiors through windows on the ground floor, although I refuse to go inside it. They don't go to much effort in the village itself to advertise the hotel, yet they always have plenty of money to waste on poorly-imagined side projects. So... few guests, not much income probably... yet they are always mucking around with something in the village. Last year's project was they built a small 'art gallery' in the village and furnished it with hundreds of almost identical paintings that looked like what kids make in kindergarten with glitter and plastic butterflies stuck on them, and tried to sell them as high-end art. They didn't sell. Now, these paintings are painted by one of the Scientologists who is friends with the Hotel's owners, and his name is Ted Stourton. He is not a particularly accomplished artist, believe me. Yet he refers to himself publicly as "one of the World's Greatest Living Artists" and he proclaims it to just about everyone. His art adorns most of the walls of the hotel and seems to cause a lot of guests plenty of laughs and/or horror because of how childlike and garish it is... the guy is not famous at all yet he's got famous price tags on these paintings. So what they seem to be doing, is using the hotel as a little lair for some hard-selling on the guests. I'm not kidding. They start 'indoctrinating' the guests right away if they're there, either into cultivating an interest in Scientology, or else in trying to pressure them into buying these horrific pieces of art. Google "Camelot Castle Hotel Light Box" if you don't believe me... the guy has a cellar that he coaxes guests into where he sings them songs and tries to convince them to buy some illuminated art for £9000 or something like. This cellar is his infamous "light box", which I guess is designed to pressure people into feeling committed or obligated to buy the art because of how intensely he is pushing them. The evidence suggests he sometimes succeeds... I've seen a few of his paintings immediately reauctioned on eBay by guests who fell prey (and they're lucky to sell for £5).

So far this just sounds like a bit of gossip. But he uses hard-sell evidently to a greater effect in his hotel dungeon than he did in the Tintagel gallery: he lies about how famous he is, and definitely tries to engage people with Scientology. I've heard it from people. The locals laugh at him, and none of the hotel people mix with us outside. They stick to themselves. When the gallery failed they tried something else in the same building - an 'official' supplier of Doc Martin merchandise, which I guess is anything but official.

As for the hotel itself - now for the less hilarious stuff of Ted and his 'art', the grimmer stuff we know about them. The BBC were planning to make a documentary on this hotel I heard, a couple of years back (about a year before I moved here, so I missed it), but I am not sure if it aired, and it was to do with the Scientology work ethic. Ex-workers have come forward to say how they were bullied, refused pay, underpaid, overworked, frightened etc., some said that the hotel deliberately recruits Polish cooks who speak very broken English who will keep to themselves and who are not properly paid... my boyfriend has said that he's seen them around in the local shop and they do not mix with the locals... preferring to get drunk in the hotel, buy themselves very cheap beer and hurry back... in accordance with the Scientology habit of paying staff pathetic wages and trying to ensure that they mix as little as possible with outsiders. Other workers have claimed that part of their work involved studying Scientology which was never a part of the contract, and is a condition of being paid, along with 12 hour days. Some have left the hotel without ever having received pay after several months' promised. The staff get bare minimum of everything, and are expected to room in the hotel. It all fits with the descriptions I've seen before of first isolating, then extorting people through psychological pressure.

One of the owners has a criminal record for fraud - not something you can really ignore in this scenario as a factor. The place is located in a lonely isolated area, the staff room under the Scientologists who can basically dictate to them, and the hotel gets used as a selling den for the other guy's art, and also a recruitment den if they can for their Scientology prattle. I know all this because there's a handful of locals who have researched and/or know these people and would really like them to leave Tintagel for good. People are aware of the ex-workers and seem to be compiling legal cases against the hotel's activities wherever possible. There was much amusement when Ted built his gallery, I can tell you... they all see to be very familiar and tired of him and his trying to fool innocent guests into buying his crap.

I've never met them personally and I rarely see them (it seems they know better than to hang out with the locals), but I can piece together from all of this that they appear to be a little triumvirate of con-artists holed up in their castle, happy to lie to, overcharge, cheat, and extort from people. I feel sorry for the people who fall for the website and actually stay at the hotel, although a few of them apparently leave before their holiday is supposed to be over, without refund. It's that bad.

It's not common knowledge that they are Scientologists up there. It's hush-hush almost, like they want it kept low-key and the villagers are just so annoyed and ****ed by them they don't speak about it much. I knew nothing about it until my boyfriend was told by his local coworkers about it once. Then I looked into it and found all kinds of hilarious and unpleasant things out about the owners with a bit of internet searching. Nothing is especially well-hidden about them, but nobody has come forward yet to really take them on for some of the things they've done. People take their website at face value, rather than delving in to who they are and what they do, so they get ripped off by booking at a grotty hotel that looks nice on the site, and then probably wooed with Scientology talk and given Ted's creepy-ass basement treatment before they go.

They must have bought the hotel for a practical reason, but it just seems they treat it like a plaything, half-seriously, and it's a dump. I can't help wondering if any meetings go on in there like that one in "The Witches". XD
 

Dante's Stalker

"Outrun this!"
Premium
Supporter 2014
^LOL!
Scientology is evil. I watched a documentary on it on youtube a while ago. A journalist went undercover to exploit them. I think she had some mental damage by the time she was finished. I think it was day two or so that she admitted that they've knocked her self-esteem to non-existant. And I think she went through a 6 hour trial of questions with them for a few days. The same questions over and over again, but put in a negative way as to discriminate and demoralise her. According to them, if she didn't face her flaws, she wouldn't be able to work on them, so they really did dig into her faults and made her feel bad and guilty about it. They verbally beat her down to nothingness, demanded a fee from her for their time, and left her broken. It was awful to watch.

Actually, scratch that. Scientology isn't evil. People are. They're just hiding behind a superficial name.
 

DreadnoughtDT

God of Hyperdeath
Premium
Supporter 2014
^LOL!
Scientology is evil. I watched a documentary on it on youtube a while ago. A journalist went undercover to exploit them. I think she had some mental damage by the time she was finished. I think it was day two or so that she admitted that they've knocked her self-esteem to non-existant. And I think she went through a 6 hour trial of questions with them for a few days. The same questions over and over again, but put in a negative way as to discriminate and demoralise her. According to them, if she didn't face her flaws, she wouldn't be able to work on them, so they really did dig into her faults and made her feel bad and guilty about it. They verbally beat her down to nothingness, demanded a fee from her for their time, and left her broken. It was awful to watch.

Actually, scratch that. Scientology isn't evil. People are. They're just hiding behind a superficial name.

Ugh, Scientology... I think I know what documentary you're talking about, too. That was horrid. I have no idea how I managed to watch it all.
 

cheezMcNASTY

Entertain me.
Premium
After a quick google search any doubt (if any) I might had is completely and utterly gone. Despite their efforts to flood travel websites with 5 star reviews, the number of 1 star reviews is incredible. The pictures on the travel site I came across through google were so outrageous that I had to post them. There are more there, but these are the most extreme ones. Most are glamour shots of the exterior or professionally shot photos of the downstairs lobby area.

I particularly enjoyed this shot of the claustrophobic bathrooms
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/18/cb/93/bathroom.jpg

The hair dryer that had been left with electric tape
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/ed/e8/4b/duct-tape-on-the-hairdryer.jpg

That quacks so-called "art" which you weren't kidding, really is just glitter and glue
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/2c/ec/ef/one-of-the-scores-of.jpg

1970's Tube TV's
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/04/fc/91/70s-tv-an-remote-control.jpg

Horrendous moisture damage
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/12/7d/71/the-ceiling-of-room-203.jpg

The bad boys behind it all
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/9c/ff/da/meeting-the-hotel-owners.jpg

and last but not least, some awesome before and after on the carpeted stairs. When you zoom in they really don't look so grand...part missing, in fact.
Before:
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/19/8b/4c/uk-cornwall-tintagel.jpg
After:
http://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/photo-s/01/04/fc/93/outside-the-room-it-won.jpg

All images taken courtesy of their page on tripadvisor.com

These guys do sound like your regular grade-A scumbags. I'd be surprised if project chanology reached you guys out there (it's not like they rallied every location, sure didn't in my city) but they would have really had a field day with that place. I'm honestly in shock over it, really. Scientology spots are usually so secretive and made to look nice. I doubt this place has any official affiliation, more likely it's a 3rd party gathering spot... but even so, it's a strange and rare view into it all.
 

Angel

Is not rat, is hamster
Admin
Moderator
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I KNOW THAT HOTEL!!!!!

I have photos of Jessica standing outside it, jumping on the four poster beds, eating at the round table etc - her grandparents took her there when she was about 4 for a holiday. Oh please God let it not have been owned by crazies back then...if her grandmother had known, she would have booked somewhere else immediately. They didn't mention mad artists or bad rooms though - or even scientology paraphernalia.

On a side note, you want to check out the previous website and scroll down. That drivel written towards the bottom sets off all kinds of alarm bells for me...
 

Osaka

trollololol
Reading all this again brings me back to that Panorama program lol


Saluting and medals of valour? You've just got to laugh really. lol
 

V

Oldschool DMC fan
@ Cheez... exactly! I thought at first some of it might have just been animosity from the locals and the hotel was just run-down, but the volume of bad stuff that's been said or written out there has to count for something. The artist is a hack - I can't look at him any other way - and the others are dubious folks indeed. We can't be wrong either when I know for a fact what the hotel's state is in, what the guy paints and what the locals say and the staff are like... and yet their own website makes it look like the sun shines from their nether regions.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH! I KNOW THAT HOTEL!!!!!

I have photos of Jessica standing outside it, jumping on the four poster beds, eating at the round table etc - her grandparents took her there when she was about 4 for a holiday. Oh please God let it not have been owned by crazies back then...if her grandmother had known, she would have booked somewhere else immediately. They didn't mention mad artists or bad rooms though - or even scientology paraphernalia.

On a side note, you want to check out the previous website and scroll down. That drivel written towards the bottom sets off all kinds of alarm bells for me...

I think they've not been there more than a few years, Angel. I'm not sure of the exact date they came, but I'm figuring between 5-10 years. I've lived in Tintagel just over two and a half years and I think they were there possibly three or maybe four years before then.

It's likely they hadn't had their claws in it for that long. I really wish they'd just set up their little funhouse somewhere else... that hotel could be gorgeous if someone really put some effort and money into rebuilding it, and bring some more people to Tintagel instead of scaring them off.

What amazes me most of all is their tenacity in the face of some pretty overwhelming bad press to continue claiming their hotel is magnificent and Ted's art is that of some National Treasure. I'm an artist by trade and I would never say such things about myself, or try to con people into believing I'm the next Picasso and therefore I'm going to charge Picasso prices for it. And what makes me angriest of all is that if they really have been abusing staff, and basically stealing from them by not paying them, legal action should be taken against them. For that though, someone needs to come forward and prove what they are doing, perhaps go undercover. I'm not certain, but I think there might be something like that underway or being discussed. I hope so, because the idea of them living it up over there by conning people is just gross. But I would not want to be the one going undercover. I'm sure whoever it is would have to be ready to take a mental beating and live in a cold damp room and study Scientology in their free time with the Mappins breathing down their necks.

http://googlejohnmappin.wordpress.com/2010/08/20/ted-stourton-butterfly-art-who-are-we-to-judge/

^ Lol

For those who wanna see what the local know, there's a 114-odd page thread discussion about the doings of the owners here (mostly pointing out how slimy they are and making fun of Ted):

http://forums.whyweprotest.net/thre...n-irina-mappin-and-ted-stourton.61785/page-46

^ I had a whale of a time reading most of that over a few days too. I learned a few interesting things about them in the process.

John if you're so loved by the locals why is it that you are never seen out in the Village, and why is it you tell your female staff that the Village is full of rapists and murderers?

Just saying!

Is that thing still up on their site where they say "artists can stay for free" at their hotel? *shudder*
 
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