Evangelion Creator: "Anime Industry Declining"

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WolfOD64

That Guy Who Hates Fox McCloud
Feb 17, 2014
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With all the predicting of financial crisis (again) incoming, yeah, I think many studios may be out of business for that reason, that's not mentioning the other reasons.
 
i have rather strong options on the subject matter but i think I will save the rant till i gather my thoughts in front of a key board. actually, this is a good spot to say so since we are talking about anno..
 
The sentiment was much the same back when Gainax made the Evangelion TV show. The original show has so much recycled footage and stills with VO because of the expense. And I assume so many Western shows employed Japanese animation studios up to this point because they were cheaper but more productive. I guess that ain't gonna fly forever
 
The anime industry has been in the decline for a long time, or at least that's what I've been told, I haven't seen signs of productions or developments slowing down in the last few decades, the same number of shows are produced ever year with little variation. The reason, though, isn't visual appeal, anime has that by the gallon, it's not a drop in quality of animation or even a drop in the quality of the narrative, stories are just as good now as before. I've always associated the decline of the anime industry to the characters.

The industry has latched to a set or character archetypes (It's archetypes, not tropes) that they keep recycling over and over. Even with a few variations, for the most part the shows and films of the last several years are all different stories and settings with pretty much the same list of characters they just happen to have different names (Hell, there are a bunch of them that even look like).

The biggest issue that I have, and I can't be the only one, with modern anime are the protagonists (MC's). It has been years since I've seen a likable lead character in an anime. They are all the same shy or aloof, oblivious towards women's feelings, modest and proper boys. Where have the confident boys gone? Where are the self assured protagonists? I just finished Unlimited Blade Works and as straight forward and brave as Shiro was he was still this polite and sometimes downright doormat-y adolescent who, like all the others, is so restricted that he practically lacks character. He is a good fighter, he's polite young man, a good cock and for the most part also good everything else he sets out for, and popular with women, but what else does he have? He isn't flawed on a day to day basis, he doesn't tell jokes (though he is the butt of a lot of them, specially coming from women), he doesn't laugh or have quirks. He, and they, are just wooden boards.

There are just so many of these wankers all over mainstream anime they've flooded the market and to top it off they aren't likable. They aren't unlikable either but that right there is the problem. A few weeks ago the girls who host the IGN anime potcast were discussing anime protagonists who have a whole lot of women aiming after them and one of the girls mention that she didn't like it when they had these bland characters who everyone wanted to kidnap and have their way with because there is nothing about that that justifies all these women having lady boners for them. And why, oh, why, does Japan think it's such a bad thing that men might like boobs, asses, and any other parts belonging to a woman. They treat male sexuality with such... Well, I'd like to call it something else but the way they make it seem I want to say disgust. Get over it, you bitches, it's called biology.

On the other hand I saw one anime where the protagonist was the exact opposite and it was deleteriously moronic, an overly stupid excuse for a male power fantasy with an imbecilic, muscle bound, sci-fi motorcycle riding, 'I know all the sexy pressure points and I never loose a fight,' BS set up that made me want to punch the screen. It was a puerile and laughable excuse for a male power fantasy that comes off like it was written for and by a 12 year olds. If you care it was called Aesthetica of a Rogue Hero and by god was it garbage.

I once saw a documentary about modern genders and there was this guy used to cosplay as Haruhi Suzumiya and he talked about what that was like for him. One day his girlfriend found some of his cosplay stuff, the panties and bra, I think, and assumed they belonged to another girl. Well, he was too embarrassed to admit they were his so they broke up. That was the point of the documentary, that there is no acceptance for men like him in modern Japan, that there are few places that he feels he is safe to take on his indulgences. More to my point, however, when they asked him why he dressed as a female character he said that there were no male characters who were appealing to him, none that were as fascinating or spoke to him as an individual. That pretty much sums it up, the lead male characters, or just men in general, are not interesting. The women are interesting but the men who are as interesting, or even interesting at all, on anime are rare and can provably be counted in one hand. For one reason or another they just don't care to make the men as lively, interesting, or appealing as the women.

I don't know. Are Japanese boys really that un-fascinating? Or is it just the ones that watch anime? Am I wrong to assume that they make these shows with a target audience that so ridiculously average that they lack any real traits but still want them to think that all the ladies want them? I could make a mile log list of these bland wankers that pass off as 'lead characters' and that's the problem. Why aren't there more characters that don't follow this mold?

And so, that leads me to a hypothesis that directly related to Hideaki Anno. I think a lot of these overused archetypes were born from the popularity of Evangelion. The painfully bland protagonists are a response to Shinji Ikari, the stoic girl to Rei Ayanami, and they tsundare (God all mighty, I hate using those stupid anime phrases) to Asuka Langley. After Evangelion there were plenty of imitators with large variations as to the degrees of success. Ultimately, though, none ever managed to parallel the popularity of the show. Sufficient to say it's become a world phenomena and a cultural one in Japan and interestingly enough, though, even though the direct imitators never quite matched the original's impact what did seemed to survive was the main characters' attributes which resonate to this day with modern creations. I don't think that they were the first of their kind but those archetypes certainly bloom and reproduced with vigor after Eva; Even the a--hole father architype seems to have found a resurgence after G. Ikari was around. Yes, a--hole fathers have been around for a long time but fathers who are a--holes to their teenage sons are far more common now.

At the same time I feel that simply copying the more shallow attributes of the characters was an injustice to them. While characters who are like Shinji are like Shinji because they are or maybe shy, a tad oblivious, reluctant at almost all intersections, somewhat scared of women, but exceptional at what they do, they lack the depth that he does that is as far as the similarities go. Same think with Asuka and Rei. Yeah, she yells a lot even though she likes the boy and the other is almost devoid of emotion at most every situation that is not with out reason. Shinji is quiet and shy because he is genuinely, clinically, depressed and the walking embodiment of what psychology calls 'conditional love' while Asuka was always trying to prove her worth against the boy who keeps besting her, even if she likes him, and Rei was not all human so her physiology and psychology were somewhat different, so her responses to stimuli were never going to be all normal. Few of the characters that came after them, that are meant to be their embodiments, have had the benefit of reasons for been as such. Yeah, the archetypes themselves have taken a role of their own and have formed and even managed to accommodate large degrees of variations of those character types but I still believe their popularization originated in Evangelion (I could also go on about Misato, Gendo, Kanji, Ritsuko and the rest but I think this is plenty enough to make a point).

To summarize, I believe the decline in the anime industry isn't do to it's quality, simply the lack of diversity in it's characters and the lack of interesting or even just appealing male as opposed to their female counterparts which outnumber by the hundreds, and I think many of the overused archetypes that plague the industry originated, or at least became so popular because of or in response to Evangelion.

I can honestly say I never thought that I'd be writing an essay on anime. Life has so many twists and turns, don't it? Still, I don't think Anime is going to vanish, ever. That fear has been discuses so many times in the last 20 years I don't pay attention anymore. Rather than sink they will shift to what works. We usually root out the bad so I don't believe Japan will ever stop producing animation and from what has a lasting appeal we will see the future creators mimic that.
 
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yeah, i could see that coming by me not being able to enjoy some titles like attack on titan, naruto, psycho pass, tokyo ghoul, and those are the most talked titles.. didn't understand myself why can't i enjoy animes anymore when i watched them, guess it's true, japan's creativity is falling apart for financial reasons. we're doooooooomed
 
You make good points, except for that. I don't know where you're getting that from. 90% of fan service in anime is aimed at males. And you see male characters in anime drooling over huge ***ted and/or scantily clad females all the time.
Language. If you can't say it on TV you can't say it here.

Anyway.

I think you're misunderstanding me. I didn't say that in anime they treat their audiences like they were neutered, I said a lot of these protagonists act like they either aren't allowed to look and like or they act like they have no interest. I've seen one, maybe two where are drooling all fumbling all over themselves just to get a peek but most other shows I've seen, the mainstream, the men are either too shy too look and if anyone even gets suspected of it they can get treated with violence, an overreaction even for comedic purposes, I always thought, and if not then they don't seem interested, like their libido has been surgically removed. If you think about it in a different light why is it that the men never make the move, they always both leave it to the women to act and lead, like they were afraid of women. There is nothing wrong with a guy chatting up a pretty girl or asking his crush out on a date but when is that last time you saw anything along those lines?

The exception to that is, of course, shoujo and josei but josie doesn't often get animated and there aren't a lot of action shoujo that I find that appealing or that I've even become that much of a mainstream hit.
 
It's an endemic problem in a lot of Asian cultures to find what is popular and follow the trend to stay relevant and make a profit. We saw it in the anime industry when those archetypes became so popular that every show had literally the same cast, we saw it in their gaming industry where they tried to outsource to occidental developers because our market was booming. It's so odd to see, because there's so many Japanese content developers that have ambitions and want to make genuinely great products, and who work their asses off to make that a reality; and yet there's all those others who are content to find the "blueprint for success" and just use that until it gets so faded you can't read it anymore.

But honestly, is it really that surprising? Look at how the world is changing. Here in the West, people are making games and film based on the things they grew up with, continuing all the cool trends we love to see, but what has happened in Japan? Sure there's been some great new IPs and incredible stories told in anime, but look at some of those top grossing products - Dragon Ball has been around forever, Final Fantasy has been around forever, Super Mario, Legend of Zelda forever. Japan has a death grip on the past because that's what made them relevant, but now, everyone who was inspired by them growing up is stepping into the ring and surpassing them here in the West, while in Japan, as Miyazaki was saying, they're out-of-touch with exactly what can make a good product because all they care about is the product, and not the heart and soul that goes into making it worth a damn.
 
You know what the real reason for the industry's decline is?

80's/90's anime - Action, Romantic Comedies, Film Noir, Psychological Thrillers, Horror, Crime Fiction, Historical Drama, Cyberpunk, Space Western, Mech series, Sci-Fi, High Fantasy, Dark Fantasy, Post-Apocalypse, Gothic Horror, Pulp Action, Slice-of-Life

Now - Moe, Harem, Schoolgirl Slice-of-Life Dramas, maybe Action, the occasional Mech series, and the odd revival of a long-dead series for the sake of an easy cash-in.

THAT'S what's wrong with the industry nowadays. They ride the same mundane, stupid, derivitave genres with no innovation or narrative quality, because they know that a legion of otakus with horrible taste will eat it up. Gone are the days where there was diversity and originality, gone are the days where animating legends like Yoshiaki Kawajiri or Katsuhiro Otomo pushing animation to its limits to create breathtaking experiences...

...no. The anime industry is stuck in this "Super-Kawaii-Moe" Limbo where they ONLY produce the same kind of sh!t, and when by-the-numbers shonen escapades that just scream "same show you've seen a million times before but with higher production value and better animation" like Attack On Titan and Kill La Kill are heralded as the "rebirth of the industry".

If that doesn't show how dick-punchingly low our standards have fallen, I have no idea what does.
 
One day his girlfriend found some of his cosplay stuff, the panties and bra, I think, and assumed they belonged to another girl. Well, he was too embarrassed to admit they were his so they broke up.
HA HA HA LMAO hilarious.. am i wrong to laugh at this?
they're out-of-touch with exactly what can make a good product because all they care about is the product, and not the heart and soul that goes into making it worth a damn.
and let's not forget many great mangas never get animated because they can't make the same amount of money as Dragon ball or Naruto.
 
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HA HA HA LMAO hilarious.. am i wrong to laugh at this?
and let's not forget many great mangas never get animated because they can't make the same amount of money as Dragon ball or Naruto.
Oh, Vagabond...
Thy bodacious, bewitching frames of artistic perfection shall forever remain entrenched in the restrictive realm of manga.
I mean, who has the time to animate one of the founding monoliths of the seinen medium when you have to animate these many underage titties?
 
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Same reason why amazing things like Berserk and Vagabond are being ignored- they don't move units nor do they sell.

Everything nowadays is designed to pander to the modern otaku. From the boob pillows to the characters, it's all designed to appeal to that group that's always gonna shell out cash. Things are getting stale, fast. The rest of the world is slapping Japan around in terms of animated productions. Look at the Legend of Korra and Steven Universe. Yes, I know that they're not anime, but they're certainly a form of animation. They're great works of animation that are enjoyed by a huge demographic, yet the Japanese industry can only pander to a tiny niche of people. The market is supersaturated and destined to collapse, and I hope that when it does I have a chair and some popcorn ready.
 
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Same reason why amazing things like Berserk and Vagabond are being ignored- they don't move units nor do they sell.
Hellsing, Berserk and Vagabond found a larger following in the West than they did in Japan. Probably because two of them have predominantly Western influences, and the latter attempts a more serious art style and narrative than practically everything on the market right now.
 
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Saw this on 4chan. It's about the reason why animation is of lousy quality often, but it can be pretty much applied with the rest of the stuff to the idea why the industry as a whole is collapsing.

 
Saw this on 4chan. It's about the reason why animation is of lousy quality often, but it can be pretty much applied with the rest of the stuff to the idea why the industry as a whole is collapsing.


So basically the management is on par with a bunch of middle schoolers running a car wash, no one gets paid enough for washing the cars, and what cars they do wash are given **** quality washes.

I don't know how to feel about this. That's really ****ing bad. Christ, that industry is just DESTINED to collapse any day now. I also how to wonder how the employes don't just rebel at any given moment.
 
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http://kotaku.com/dragon-ball-super-looks-super-crappy-1723059211

http://gfycat.com/ChiefShrillHogget

http://gfycat.com/FlawedAmusedIndusriverdolphin

http://gfycat.com/DismalVainIberianmidwifetoad

And this crap is coming from Toei Animation, the first true anime production studio to be created, so they're practically legends.

One of the main problems of anime is the fact it's too ambitious (or was too ambitious) for a country as small as Japan. Quality has been declining in the 80s or after Akira ever since animators realized they can't make much money off of it and has taken the cheap and easy way to produce anime (granted some got good at it).
 
I think he meant "creatively" because it feels like there are a million animes announced each season or so. The creative issue is something that I wouldn't say is unique to anime because other mediums suffer from as well.

there is a quote by this writer from Marvel where he said the only thing meaningful we learned from Alan Moore's Watchmen was that it was cool for Rorscach to beat someone over the head with a toilet seat and that explained most of the problems comics had in the early 90s.

So the creativity of any medium seems to ebb and flow so maybe we might see a change soon.