DMC4: The Lock-On is broken in this game.

[OppressedWriter]

Updated. Example of what I'm talking about, this makes lock-on pretty much a frustrating obstactle rather than anything useful.

I'm pressing toggle the whole time while just moving. I mean seriously, ugh, no wonder during close combat that you often find yourself unable to toggle between targets, no movement allowed on the left stick, how does something like this get overseen?

Now, before people try to crucify me for my headline here me out.

The lock-on in DMC4 is fundamentally broken because it won't allow the player to switch/toggle targets while he is moving. Don't believe me, try it. I mean how the heck did this even go unnoticed.
This is not a design decision, this is a flaw in the game code or design. There is no reason why the player shouldn't be allowed to toggle targets while moving.

DMC3, a much older and more awesome game, and every other game with lock on lets you do this, and for good reason, because that's how it's supposed to work, there is literally no benefit from not being able to toggle targets on the move. This is seriously such a fatal flaw, I secretly am hoping it's just something on my end, and not standard for all DMC4 copies. So, I ask any DMC4 players who have it on PC to take a few minutes and please check to see if your copy also suffers from the same flawed lock-on design. Try to do the following: Lock on to a target, then walk in any direction (just keep moving), and try to toggle between the targets in front of you by pressing the left analog stick or whatever button you have that function mapped to. The first wave 1 of bloody palace is as a good a place as any to test this out.

Again thanks.

 

[aoshi]

I don't know how the analog stick is suppose to respond to click when you are already holding it down by moving. I have not tried this and don't think is critical in combat. Moving while lock-on is jus walking. I never change targets when locked on , I simply continue comboing and kill the enemy,release the lock-on and try locking on to the next enemy.

You can attack without holding the lock-on. I would suggest to release the lock-on , move analog in a direction you want, hit the lock-on and you will lock on to the target you desire to. Works 90 % of the time. Sometimes lock-on baffles me, I try targeting on an enemy and lock-on happens to an enemy behind me. IDK how that happens.:blink:

 

[OppressedWriter]

I don't know how the analog stick is suppose to respond to click when you are already holding it down by moving. I have not tried this and don't think is critical in combat. Moving while lock-on is jus walking. I never change targets when locked on , I simply continue comboing and kill the enemy,release the lock-on and try locking on to the next enemy.

You can attack without holding the lock-on. I would suggest to release the lock-on , move analog in a direction you want, hit the lock-on and you will lock on to the target you desire to. Works 90 % of the time. Sometimes lock-on baffles me, I try targeting on an enemy and lock-on happens to an enemy behind me. IDK how that happens.:blink:

"I don't know how the analog stick is suppose to respond to click when you are already holding it down by moving"

Just to answer this first, Maybe the same way it does in all the other 3d games, where you have a different function when the stick is pressed in, like running in an fps, etc.

I know you can attack without lock on. But the lock on is still broken. Try it on DMC3, or for that matter, any game with lock on. I should be able to move backwards while shooting and change targets. This has a real purpose with ranged weapon attacks since it allows precision to choose between targets while using ranged attacks. There is no way this was supposed to be as it is, it's some sort of bug, there is no practical reason for it to be this way even if you happened to get around it. What's the point of even having lock on if you can't switch targets efficiently or while moving? Might as well have not had it at all, if the only time it has any purpose is when you're on the last enemy.

Actually, if you have DMC3 aoshi, fire that up with vergil and dante, and you'll see exactly what I'm getting at, try to use vergil's summoned swords and move backwards, you can switch targets so the summoned swords attack the enemies around you. You can also seamlessly transition from a stinger to stinger to the enemy behind you. In DMC4, because of the glitch, it feels like for some reason the toggle isn't working, because even the slightest stick movement disables the toggle function.

Again, why do I have to go on and off lock-on mode, which is required to execute a lot of critical moves, in order to seamlessly transition between potential targets. This wasn't an issue in DMC3 and isn't an issue in any other modern hack and slash with Lock on and toggling.

Anyway, Aoshi thanks for trying, I just find this really aggravating, because I would like to be able to be attacking the locked on enemy and then seamlessly transition to a specific enemy behind me. If the toggle worked as it should like it does in 3 this would be no problem.

I guess I'll just stick to DMC3 and DmC.

 

[aoshi]

I know you can attack without lock on. But the lock on is still broken. Try it on DMC3, or for that matter, any game with lock on. I should be able to move backwards while shooting and change targets. This has a real purpose with ranged weapon attacks since it allows precision to choose between targets while using ranged attacks. There is no way this was supposed to be as it is, it's some sort of bug, there is no practical reason for it to be this way even if you happened to get around it. What's the point of even having lock on if you can't switch targets efficiently or while moving? Might as well have not had it at all, if the only time it has any purpose is when you're on the last enemy.

Like i have said, I have not tried it and have beaten DMC 3 on the highest difficulty. Even so, DMC 3 enemy pattern is way different compared to DMC 4. I see its significance with bosses like cerebrus where toggling on heads is critical. But in DMC 4, It has no real purpose. The only enemy that needs ranged weapon use is mephistos in order to decloak them.Even so, toggling targets on the move is not going to accomplish anything besides player's inability to flow with the game in any other way.

If you don't understand what I'm getting at, fire up DMC3 and lock on and use vergil's summoned swords and move backwards, you can switch targets so the summoned swords attack the enemies around you. You can also seamlessly transition from a stinger to stinger to the enemy behind you. In DMC4, because of the glitch, it feels like for some reason the toggle isn't working, because even the slightest stick movement disables the toggle function.

Like i said, Enemy pattern of DMC 3 is different from DMC 4. Using ranged weapons is not strictly necessary unlike cerebrus ,blood goyles and soul eaters in DMC 3. Even so in DMC 3, There are other effective ways to deal with blood goyles , like agni and rudra's crawler and tempest moves, beowulfs volcano. They are more effective in stunning enemies than ranged fire arms which is only real purpose of fire-arms. You are basically demanding an ability that is of very less significance in DMC 4.

Again, why do I have to go on and off lock-on mode, which is required to execute a lot of critical moves, in order to seamlessly transition between potential targets. This wasn't an issue in DMC3 and isn't an issue in any other modern hack and slash with Lock on and toggling.

You jus mentioned one use of it and that is to shoot while walking back and in the same time toggle. That's not even critical cuz there are much better ways to deal with enemy patterns than to walk back and shoot. Sorry, not significant in DMC 4.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Not an ability. Can you tell what purpose not having this functionality does? Why shouldn't the player be able to toggle enemies while in lock on mode? When I"m in lock on mode, I have the ability to dodge, without lock on I can't dodge, having to toggle in and out of lock-on in order to choose the right enemy destroys the flow of combat and is obviously flawed. Do you really believe that this is fine, because you got used to it. Why shouldn't you be able to toggle enemies while moving? When this is how lock on works in every other action game that has lock on. I mean it had to been some bug or oversight, because there's no other reason for this to be the case.

For example, what if you couldn't center the camera while in lock on, would you say well, you don't really need to center the camera while locked on, because the enemies can be dealt with from a non-centered perspective, because that's how your defense is sounding like at this point. This is a critical glitch that if other people had mentioned earlier probably would have been fixed by capcom, it obviously is some sort of coding error in the maximum number of inputs the game can recognize at one time.

 

[aoshi]

Not an ability. Can you tell what purpose not having this functionality does? Why shouldn't the player be able to toggle enemies while in lock on mode? When I"m in lock on mode, I have the ability to dodge, without lock on I can't dodge, having to toggle in and out of lock-on in order to choose the right enemy destroys the flow of combat and is obviously flawed.

We can toggle enemies while locked-on. But your issue is not being able to toggle when moving while locked-on.

There is no reason why the player shouldn't be allowed to toggle targets while moving.

there is literally no benefit from not being able to toggle targets on the move.

Try to do the following: Lock on to a target, then walk in any direction (just keep moving), and try to toggle between the targets in front of you by pressing the left analog stick or whatever button you have that function mapped to.

Moving while locked-on itself breaks the seamlessness or flow in combat unless you are firing E&I. So why do you think the absence of toggle while lock-on and move is supposedly breaking the seamlessness??

 

[OppressedWriter]

We can toggle enemies while locked-on. But your issue is not being able to toggle when moving while locked-on.



Moving while locked-on itself breaks the seamlessness or flow in combat unless you are firing E&I. So why do you think the absence of toggle while lock-on and move is supposedly breaking the seamlessness??

That's totally false and you know it. Why are you defending this flaw of DMC4? The lock on is broken. Being able to hold lock on and toggle enemies without having to stand still is not something you think would improve the game's combat when it comes to dealing with crowds of enemies. Right now, if you want to find the right target you have to press lock on and hope you get the right one, if you don't then you have stand still and toggle or repeatedly reposition the camera so the enemy you want is isolated and then yay you can use a lock on button that has no real purpose. The way it should be is the way it is in every game with lock, just like It was in DMC3, this is a flaw in the game's coding.

Let me explain, it's not even about shooting guns while moving, but more about having genuine control over which enemy you want to stinger or perform signature moves on first. With toggle, you can be attacking an enemy in front of you, and while your performing a combo on him, you can efficiently toggle through a group of enemies behind you to single out the one you want to go after next and then quickly perform a stinger or another signature attack to reach them.

So, like I said the biggest problem is that the toggle stops working at the slightest movement of the left joystick, and because more often than not most players are always slightly touching the movement stick out of habit. The toggle never works as it should during combat. I just think the game shouldn't disable toggle at the slightest detection of movement on the left joystick, a lock on where you can't toggle during defensive movement is hardly something to be defending.

Added video of what I'm talking about, this is really bad. It makes lock-on and the ability to toggle totally useless, more hassle than benefit.

 

[SpawnShooter]

I believe it's to do with the precision of directional input based moves. You may notice that in DMC4 a Stinger is always towards the enemy whereas in DMC3 it's forwards of Dante, this can sometimes end up making you Hightime when you meant to Stinger because of the time it takes Dante to "catch up" and face them.

I agree it is a nuisance but tbh if you want to pick a specific target in either DMC3/4 toggling through enemies until you get the right one is the last thing you should be doing.

 

[aoshi]

That's totally false and you know it. Why are you defending this flaw of DMC4? The lock on is broken. Being able to hold lock on and toggle enemies without having to stand still is not something you think would improve the game's combat when it comes to dealing with crowds of enemies. Right now, if you want to find the right target you have to press lock on and hope you get the right one, if you don't then you have stand still and toggle or repeatedly reposition the camera so the enemy you want is isolated and then yay you can use a lock on button that has no real purpose. The way it should be is the way it is in every game with lock, just like It was in DMC3, this is a flaw in the game's coding.

Let me explain, it's not even about shooting guns while moving, but more about having genuine control over which enemy you want to stinger or perform signature moves on first. With toggle, you can be attacking an enemy in front of you, and while your performing a combo on him, you can efficiently toggle through a group of enemies behind you to single out the one you want to go after next and then quickly perform a stinger or another signature attack to reach them.

So, like I said the biggest problem is that the toggle stops working at the slightest movement of the left joystick, and because more often than not most players are always slightly touching the movement stick out of habit. The toggle never works as it should during combat. I just think the game shouldn't disable toggle at the slightest detection of movement on the left joystick, a lock on where you can't toggle during defensive movement is hardly something to be defending.

Sorry, but DMC 4 does not have everything that DMC 3 did and i explained why toggle in DMC 3 is more required with enemies like cerebrus,blood goyles and soul eaters. DMC 3 had DT charge and release which can be used very efficiently in crowd control. That was removed in DMC 4, So does that mean there is no crowd control in DMC 4?Being able to toggle while on the move is very trivial in DMC 4. There are lots of other abilities for crowd control that over-shadows this ability. You're jus ranting on your inability to flow with the game with trivial reasons as toggling of lock-on.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Sorry, but DMC 4 does not have everything that DMC 3 did and i explained why toggle in DMC 3 is more required with enemies like cerebrus,blood goyles and soul eaters. DMC 3 had DT charge and release which can be used very efficiently in crowd control. That was removed in DMC 4, So does that mean there is no crowd control in DMC 4?Being able to toggle while on the move is very trivial in DMC 4. There are lots of other abilities for crowd control that over-shadows this ability. You're jus ranting on your inability to flow with the game with trivial reasons as toggling of lock-on.

Are you seriously going to imply that this was a deliberate game design choice? That they did this for balance reasons or something along those lines. That unlike every other game with lock on including all the older DMC's and DMC3, ZELDA, etc, they were like oh man, DMC4 we don't want Dante to have too much mobility in switching between enemies, we should really program that out. Really, if you believe that then go ahead and continue to defend a game's inability to toggle while moving, which has nothing to do with a deliberate game mechanic/game design choice, but an actual glitch with the game's controller inputs.

To further prove the absurdity of your defense. You can toggle just fine, you can spam it even, as long as the game doesn't detect pressure on the movement axis. There is no amount of words you can use to describe this as some sort of positive or an okay thing, because you find the ability to toggle while moving useless. It's not, I guess you don't care about being able to figure out which enemy you want to attack next with certain moves as important. This is not a DMC3 vs DMC4 design contest. It's about a broken lock on that was never meant to be this way. But if you want to continue defending something like this despite all the obvious evidence proving its a bug, I obviously have no chance to convince you otherwise, so let's just agree to this disagree.

How Toggle should have worked in DMC4​

So, for example, if there are four enemies in front of the player, one straight ahead, one straight ahead but flying, one to the left, and one to the right. Here's how a good lock on system would and should work: with the enemy on the ground in front of the player being the neutral starting point when lock on is activated, flicking the right joystick left should toggle to the left enemy, flicking the right joystick right to the right enemy, and flicking the right joystick up to the flying enemy. DMC4 not being able to do this is inexcusable regardless if some people managed to find a way around it or ultimately think the ability to toggle is useless.

Personally, I dislike lock-on, my point here is though that if you must have it, it better damn function and provide the benefits that lock on is supposed to provide, most notable of which is precise target selection. In none of the counter arguments, have I heard anyone tell me what exactly does lock on do in DMC4 if target selection is not that important when using it, why is it even in the game in the first place?

In conclusion, I honestly think the DMC4 lock-on system wasn't supposed to have this glitch, because it has nothing to do with what type of enemies are in DMC3 vs DMC4, or how trivial someone might think the ability to toggle while applying a little pressure on the left joystick is (it's not), sometimes things are broken, and this is one of those times.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Never noticed this in the PS3 version. I'll check it out later and come with some feedback.

UPDATE: Same thing in PS3, you have to stop the character to toggle with L3.

EDIT: Wanted to address something from the video comment.

So much for Lock-on precision, what exactly is lock on good for if you can only use it to choose enemies while standing still.

- Command moves
- To actually know where you will land (Trickster, Calibur) or aim

Generally speaking, this is it, all other usages to this come from this two core things.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Never noticed this in the PS3 version. I'll check it out later and come with some feedback.

Thank you. I really hope its a glitch related to the pc port and how they implemented the coding for the controls, because Vine going from DMC3's real lock on with a toggle that works to DMC4 is a huge flaw and massively disappointing.

Edit: a friend who has it on xbox, confirmed this to be an issue as well, so now hoping to here from you Vineboss from your PS3 test.

 

[VineBigBoss]

This is not a DMC3 vs DMC4 design contest. It's about a broken lock on that was never meant to be this way.

Here i disagree with you. SpawnShooter had given you a very good reason to this limitation, what he said about DMC3 was true, the game "confusing" some towards or away command inputs and giving you the wrong move. Obviously that was not that big of an issue, but it happened here and there, and now that he mentioned i've never noticed this happening in DMC4, and this mostly explain why it's possible to do reverse moves in DMC4 while in DMC3 it's nearly impossible (i've already seen someone making it possible with Tool-Assistance):

(Starts at 07:18)

Here is a tutorial from ChaserTech for Reverse Moves.

EDIT: But if you want to look at something that is nearly broken in DMC4, look at DRIs:

 

[OppressedWriter]

It's still missing the point. A toggle should work when the player is moving. Simple as that. Nothing I've been shown justifies why you can't toggle targets while in lock on mode and moving. This is an essential function of what lock on is supposed to do, which is allow you to pick and choose your targets from a safe defensive stance. Now it feels like some of you are defending a broken system. I repeat, Lock on is to focus on specific enemies and pick out specific targets, it fails to do this in DMC4 properly, therefore it is broken.

As for your other rebuttals, a broken lock-on is not fixed just because it is used for other things besides its primary function so being a necessity for command moves is actuality a negative instead of a positive, all modern games including Bayonetta allow complex command moves with or without lock on. Again, It's called lock on for a reason and not something like launch attacks command button.

Now when it comes to Calibur, explain to me why do you have to stand still in order to choose your target, and why is lock on even necessary to these things since target toggling on the fly while in the heat of battle is useless in DMC4? For example, see DmC calibur, works just as well, without lock on.

And lastly, when it comes to air trick and other trickster esque moves, both DmC and DMC3 do make them work without lock on as well with lock on. Actually, in the case of, DMC3 it actually illustrates my point even more. You can be targeting a specific enemy while locked on and toggle to an enemy behind you and use trickster to teleport or dash towards that enemy. Good luck doing this dynamically in DMC4 using the lock on system. The thing is the only time the lock on is limited is if it senses any pressure on the left joystick. The problem is, naturally as a player, you want to move the joystick towards the enemy you hope to attack next, so this natural inclination ends up disabling the game's ability to toggle, and since without toggling there is no way to change targets while locked on, it ends up frustrating the player.

Edit: DRI not really relevant. I don't think that's a broken mechanic, it was an obvious design choice, whether people like it or not is subjective, but that's not the same as my complaint here. My complaint against dmc4 lock on is on a purely mechanical and technical level, I think something is wrong with the mtframework version used for DMC4, and I hope it has been fixed. Does anyone have the new resident evil or any other new mt framework game where you can lock and toggle? I'd like to think they have fixed this issue in their other games.

 

[VineBigBoss]

It's still missing the point. A toggle should work when the player is moving. Simple as that. Nothing I've been shown justifies why you can't toggle targets while in lock on mode and moving. This is an essential function of what lock on is supposed to do, which is allow you to pick and choose your targets from a safe defensive stance. Now it feels like some of you are defending a broken system. Lock on is to focus on specific enemies to pick out targets, it fails to do this in DMC4 properly, therefore it is broken. Did you test it out on PS3 yet?

I've updated the first post, it apparently works the same way in the three plataforms.

"Simple as that" is not a very complete justification to something you're calling "broken". It's nearly the same discussion i had with Goldensickle, he argue that a lot of hack'n'slash and action games let you move freely while locking and classic DMCs make you lose movement speed, then i explained that it's a limitation due to the command moves in DMC and that he doesn't really explained why it hurted the game by itself; some other H'n'Ss like MGR managed to pull out command moves without that kind of restriction because it has a more "fixed" camera angle in relation to the character and uses one specific button to run (Ninja Run) while not in a combat situation.

Some things that are really broken and why:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQXl2eAwkyw

You simple can't hit the enemy you want to hit because the soft-lock is not calibrated well, this will never happen in any other DMC game because you actually control the lock-on in these games and you just leave it if you want to. Another example of why something can be broken: DRI is broken because it lacks the balance the game needed for it to work properly without nearly rending Berial useless after the first hit (even if it can be "difficult" to land a RI because of its startup frames, it's still too much of a reward for a simple task), for example; you get too much damage as a reward, can keep your DT unscratched depending on how you distorted the move or can get nearly 4.3 damage if you use the optimal setup for damage which has strict timing and do not regain DT runes, but well... it's in the game and it's just too powerful and "easy" to land properly.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Okay, Vine. I'm honestly baffled to see you defending this. I expected a bit more from you. Lock on should work like lock on should work. It worked that way in DMC3 and it works that way in every other hack and slash and action game that has lock on. Lock on is to focus the player towards an enemy, the toggle function is to help choose the enemy that one wants to target, in DMC4 you can't do the toggle function while moving, this is a flaw. I don't know how much clearer this has to be. I'm not talking about game balance and what not, that's why DRI is irrelevant. This is about having a system called lock on that doesn't do what the system of a lock on does in every other game and has done ever since its existence. Did you read my suggestion for how it should have worked, are you honestly telling me that wouldn't be a significant improvement and make DMC4 better?

As for that DmC video, it really is full of crap, I don't think you should be using it as evidence of a broken mechanic. All he did was let go of his joystick, and the soft lock took over and attacked the enemy that was about to attack him next.

That's how soft lock works if you don't input any direction, it's actually quite brilliant that way, that's how it knows which enemy to target if there are 3 of them directly in front of you, it will target the enemy that is attacking you or about to attack you next. The way DmC gives target priority goes somehting like this: Direction player is pushing left stick and then enemy most likely to attack player next. If you stop pushing a direction on the joystick, the soft lock will just adjust to the enemy that is about to attack, which in that video's case was the chainsaw drone on the ground. So, that video is pretty much dmc hate video. It'd be like if I used debug mode on DMC4 and just made up videos saying look at this infinite jump bug or this or that. It's a video manipulating a mechanic in order to make a claim that the mechanic is broken.

So, If he had pointed his stick towards the enemy he wanted to helmbreaker it would have helmbreakered that enemy.

 

[SpawnShooter]

This is about having a system called lock on that doesn't do what the system of a lock on does in every other game and has done ever since its existence.

It performs the function of a lock-on perfectly, it locks on to an enemy. It can't really get any more "locked on" than that.

Your gripe is with the toggle and like I said earlier there really are more efficient ways of doing it though I do agree it would benefit from the system you mentioned earlier, but that goes for DMC 3 + 4.
Oh and in DMC1 you can't swap targets at all!

 

[OppressedWriter]

It performs the function of a lock-on perfectly, it locks on to an enemy. It can't really get any more "locked on" than that.

Your gripe is with the toggle and like I said earlier there really are more efficient ways of doing it though I do agree it would benefit from the system you mentioned earlier, but that goes for DMC 3 + 4.
Oh and in DMC1 you can't swap targets at all!

To me lock on means three things:
Centered Camera
Toggling between enemies to center camera on.
It's a dedicated center camera on this enemy or the other enemies I toggle to.
It does not do this in DMC4, so hence my criticism.



Anyways,. this wasn't really me trying to berate DMC4 gameplay balance or discuss other combat mechanics, this is about the concept of a lock on design should work, even in DMC3 the lock is better, because it at least toggles while you're moving, which allows you to be in the middle of a combo with a locked on enemy and then toggle and air trick to an enemy behind you.

So, like I said before, the biggest flaw is the fact that the natural inclination of the player is to move his movement stick towards the enemy he wishes to strike next, and doing that in DMC4, while locked on negates the ability to switch targets, which is very frustrating and not intuitive. If there was even a slight window before it locked out the ability to toggle targets I'd be content, but its just no, left joystick moved no toggle allowed.

Also, if you read the lock on type description, it's almost as if it is meant to work like I keep describing it should have, but for some reason it is bugged and doesn't. Read the description for the type 1 lock on, and tell me it doesn't read like how I wished it worked.

Anyway, I guess like I said I'll stick to DmC and DMC3 for the time being. Guess 4 isn't my cup of tea even though I admire some other mechanics in its combat design. Thanks all.

 

[VineBigBoss]

Okay, Vine. I'm honestly baffled to see you defending this. I expected a bit more from you. Lock on should work like lock on should work. It worked that way in DMC3 and it works that way in every other hack and slash and action game that has lock on. Lock on is to focus the player towards an enemy, the toggle function is to help choose the enemy that one wants to target, in DMC4 you can't do the toggle function while moving, this is a flaw. I don't know how much clearer this has to be. I'm not talking about game balance and what not, that's why DRI is irrelevant. This is about having a system called lock on that doesn't do what the system of a lock on does in every other game and has done ever since its existence. Did you read my suggestion for how it should have worked, are you honestly telling me that wouldn't be a significant improvement and make DMC4 better?

As for that DmC video, I have no idea what exactly is the problem in that video, he didn't push any direction for the helmbreaker, so it automatically just adjusted to the enemy that was attacking him. That's how soft lock works if you don't input any direction, it's actually quite brilliant that way, that's how it knows which enemy to target if there are 3 of them directly in front of you, it will target the enemy that is attacking you or about to attack you next. If he had pointed his stick towards the enemy he wanted to helmbreaker it would have helmbreakered that enemy.

I feel the same way when people try to defend DmC's combat system, this really can be a flaw but saying that the lock-on is "broken" is like trying to say it's malfunctioning like DmC's one.

Just in general lines because i'm in a hurry here:

Bayonetta has gigantic hitboxes for its moves and gigantic enemies, that's why that "no lock-on based or gimmicky camera angle" moves worked there, DmC tried to mimic DMC moves but with a similar concept and look what happens with some attempts to hit an Overdrive or even Stingers, this can be a possible explanation why DmC has such large hitboxes for moves that don't even look that will hit that far. I read your suggestion and find it good to some extent, but still you would had to stop to use all the face buttons just to choose one enemy because you can't have your thumb on the face buttons and in the right analog at the same time, do you tried to think that it would cause nearly the same negative point than stopping the character from moving for practical purposes?

DmC has a different purpose behind it, which is not to encourage different playstyles and promote variety. It's not because they can input a DMC move in their control scheme and mechanics that the command move design becomes instatly irrelevant, again: look at the variety you had before and this is the main point of having these command moves, and considering one more thing that i don't ever see people saying: Dante has only 3 Devil Arms in DMC4 and has 5 in DmC, the number of firearms are equal and still DMC4 had more moves; this is one of the differences between the mindsets of the devs making their games, and this is reflected by their design choices.

Air trick does not work without holding the lock-on button.

Something that i don't really understanded: it's useless toggling in the heat of the battle where you are most of the time in DMC4, and still you take this as a flaw? That's somehow strange to hear.

This happened to me even inputing a direction, the game seems to focus on the enemies closer to the character.

 

[OppressedWriter]

I've given you plenty of reasons why it should be the way it is, the most tantamount being that toggle stops function if there is the slightest detection of movement on the left joystick, this is my biggest problem, forget being able to walk back slowly in a dodgeable stance and switch targets on the fly while shooting your ranged weapons.

As to address your concern about face buttons, well you could remap toggle to lb or rb and that would address that issue, in the end if the system worked, it would be up to the player to decide where he feels comfortable having his toggle buttons. Another thing would be adding a toggle option for lock on, this would also free up your hands while maintaining the pro's of having a lock on system.


So, in conclusion, I find DMC4's lock on unituitive and clunky, because it does not work like a good enemy targeting system should. If it was more flexible and allowed toggling while moving it would only enhance player control. I literally cannot see any benefit from it not being properly implemented into DMC4 besides bad design or a legitimate bug that was missed.


P.S. Regarding DmC and other DMC's moves, which isn't really relevant to this thread Vine so I think we should discuss it elsewhere. All I'll say is this, DmC and DMC4 have nearly the same amount of moves, the difference you're trying to imply might be the in 5-10 move range when all moves of Vergil and Dante are compared against Nero and Dante. That's not enough to say, oh new game has way less moves and promotes significantly less variety.