Final boss similarties and comparisons, DmC vs DMC3

[GF9000000Returns]

Thanks to this user on youtube (who I don't like for various reasons) with this video, got me thinking about this.

So yeah, talk about the similarities in both Vergil battles, then vote on the poll for which boss battle is better along with its music, but on one condition...DO NOT talk about the difficulty, and if you do, at least talk about it in a respectful manner(knowing how some of you here are)

Now as for me, I love all of them! Both of the songs fitted their situations. The DMC3 is a "I can't let you do this brother. Why can't we go back the way things were", while the DmC one is like "If you really wanna kill me Vergil, then F*CKING TRY IT!!" As for the battles, both of them had their similarities but were different too. The DmC Vergil is more of a "come and get me" type, fast, cancels some of his moves, and kills you slowly but painfully, while the DMC3 Vergil just won't give you a chance to attack!

 

[CheeseKao]

Similarities...The way they deflect projectiles is pretty cool I suppose.

 

[CheeseKao]

Similarities...The way they deflect projectiles is pretty cool I suppose.

 

[Cabbage Detective]

Yeah I like both boss fights too tho I was kinda dissapointed by DmC one

 

[788Masri]

now i like DmC a lot but the final battle is not even in the same league as DMC3s original battle. while the music is okay its nowhere near as grand and epic as the orchestra in the original. but it isnt meant to be;

you see the final boss battle is nothing more than a taster, a tease as to what is to come. here we see the twins big break from one another. in DMC3 this moment is only told to us (very vaguely) and we play from where Vergil and Dante are enemies. Dante has no illusions or hopes when he meets Vergil and is fully aware that with him its kill or be killed. NT decided to tell us what it was that set the two brothers against us rather than ignore it and asume well make something up to fill in the details.

so i dont think its fair to compare the two. when we finally get to the final, cataclysmic godly and truly epic battle then we will be able to fully compare.

 

[LysseC]

I have always found DmC final battle as something that was just thrown in to make Vergil the bad guy, not something that you anticipated from the beginning, something that you couldn't really wait to see happening, like that from DMC3. There is little to no climax leading to it imo.
And DmC Vergil is never shown fighting before in the game, as he had always demanded that aspect to his twin (even in Mission 12, Dante steps in before Vergil could fight the Butcher that was attacking him). It's only in Vergil's Downfall that we see him at work. So, to be honest, I didn't get the impression (story-wise, that is) Dante was going to fight a strong enemy, one who could pose a real threat to him (well, maybe I could anticipate it by analogy, because I knew Vergil was strong in the old series, but that's not the point).
The opposite is true for DMC3 final battle.

As for the music, I totally agree with 788Masri: as good as Empty is, the orchestra of the DMC3 battle is really something else in the league of epicness.

So, well, as much as I love the reboot, I think that DMC3 wins this particular confrontation.

 

[majeh116]

While I like DmC more then DMC 3 the final bights arent even comparable the DMC 3 one wins hands down. I will say the DmC one is more in league with the first Vergil fight rather then the last since the last is the culmination of all your trials to see if you can finally get vergil after all that training where as DmC Dante is mostly skewering Vergil for standing up for himself.

 

[Demi-fiend]

Hollow Vergil.

 

[DragonMaster2010]

I gotta go with DMC3.

DmC's Vergil was way to easy and too predictable. However that doesn't mean I liked DMC3 Vergil's fights better because the first battle for Vergil was disappointing as well because I could easily predict his movements after dying once. Same with DmC Vergil. The second fight was easier for me after dying 2 times and I bet him there. But the third battle was the toughest of them all.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

DmC's Vergil was way to easy and too predictable.

Too predictable?

I agree about him being predictable, but in DMD mode, he really isn't...well to me cuz of those fast Judgement Cuts. Vergil can move behind you in a blink of an eye, so fast that it won't give you a chance to dodge. And let's not forget them move cancels (if you notice them that is).

 

[majeh116]

While I like DmC more then DMC 3 the final bights arent even comparable the DMC 3 one wins hands down. I will say the DmC one is more in league with the first Vergil fight rather then the last since the last is the culmination of all your trials to see if you can finally get vergil after all that training where as DmC Dante is mostly skewering Vergil for standing up for himself.

I will say though that the final DmC fight had a funny irony with the first Vergil fight its just the brother that got skewered with rebellion got switched and we saw how Vergil reacts tog getting skewed as opposed to Dante.

 

[OppressedWriter]

Dmc battle can pretty epic if you have the skills to take Vergil into the air like this player zeromancer.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=plcp&v=DAejNeNV_Bk

 

[VineBigBoss]

The final battle of DMC3 carried much more meaning and tension, Dante got a spanking from Vergil in their first battle (and in the past he already have been beaten up, as they show in the manga) on DMC3, on DmC Vorgil isn't even a rival to Donte, he show hes megalomaniac intentions just on that critical moment after the "storm". They don't constructed this rivalry too much as they did with the original characters, the only clue they give to that is Donte beating Vorgil while they were aparently training with that bamboo swords.

As for the battle itself, in gameplay, Vergil just get real nasty in DMC3 in DMD mode when you have to deal with his Spiral Swords and his extremely offensive behaviour. In any level (including Very Hard) it's kinda "easy" to beat him (compared to other bosses like Geryon, A&R and Beowulf) after you get his patterns and learn to bait his whiffed combos to punish him. In DmC Vorgil is kinda frustrating, he's weak (he not even looks like a warrior, to be honest), parrying his sword throws thing when he teleports to the air are rather easy (i did it the first time unintentionally) and does very good damage, after you dodge his Starfall or even his rapid slashs you can take like 1/5 of his health (DMD) if you manage to do a demon evade and activate DT, the fight have at least 3 cutscenes too, with breaks all the action and tension in the battle. And overall i prefer the music of DMC3, but it's just my personal take because i'm no musician and can't do a honest analysis on that, but i can say that it fits more Vergil's personality and style than it does with Vorgil in DmC, and fits well the moment too, it's a long waited battle between the twins. In general, you have to take a much more agressive acting when fighting Vergil, if you let him DT too much he will heal his health over time, in DMD it's even recommended that you make your way through his barrage of attacks while DTed to take the demon form down ASAP, fighting Vorgil is much more like waiting him to do this unsafe moves, DE and punishing him with Trillion Stabs or Pull + Arbiter simple combos.

DmC fans don't get me wrong, but one of the points they've screwed up hard in this game is in the bosses designs. Go combo crazy on normals enemies is pretty fun, but the bosses are lame, really lame.

Just a point about this topic: it's not better to this to be in the DMC general discussion forum? After all this is a comparison between two games of the franchise.

 

[Stylish Nero]

DMC3 both battle, feeling, music, and the actual boss fight itself but I don't think NT was trying to capture the same feel as the DMC3 final boss fight and if they were.....man they've failed horribly.

Yet even compared to the first battle in DMC3 with Vergil (which I think that was what it was going for) it still sucks why?

Well for starters the music in the first DMC3 Vergil fight was better because DmC's final boss theme "Empty" though nice and actually the best boss track in the game (not saying much since the others with the exception of the Hunter's SUUUCCCCKKKKEDDD) after the beginning part of the theme is heard the rest of the entire theme throughout the entire battle become ssoooo repetitive as the song the repeats the same 3-5 beats with nothing else but the guitar, bass, drums, and screaming vocals doing the exact same thing for the duration of the them and it can barely come off as a theme as individual theme for characters for MvC or SF games have more effort than this. At least the DMC3 1st Vergil boss theme was capable of mixing it up and creating an interesting battle theme that mixed it up, was diverse and seemed effort was put into it,sounded neat, and complemented the battle really well.

The actual battle........it would be a tie since DmC Vergil and the first fight with DMC3 Vergil have about the same amount/type of moves but since DMC3 Vergil had better AI, the better fighter, faster, and more challenging....he wins for being in the better designed game by default.

The tension and hype....the first boss fight with Vergil in DMC3 had more hype than the fight with DmC Vergil...much more hype and development to the point I almost believed that was the end/finale of DMC3.....I mean the fight with Vergil in DmC came straight the hell out of nowhere almost. I mean there was very small hints that Vergil was a d!ck but not enough to warrant that he and Dante would end up fighting at the end as mortal enemies but the sad fact was that him fighting Vergil was inevitable or was highly expected from the moment Vergil was shown to be in the game and even spoiled more as more trailers was shown. The final battle with Vergil wasn't very developed to at all, their relationship was though but that didn't matter as Dante was ready to kill his own brother so damn easily just because they "disagreed".

Ninja Theory's writing at its finest am I right folks?

 

[LysseC]

Ninja Theory's writing at its finest am I right folks?

I got the impression that they HAD to make Vergil a d!ck in the end just because Vergil had to be... well, Vergil-like, as in "the bad guy".
It's like they tried to show him collaborating with his brother, a thing that many fans (or should I say fangirls, me included?) wanted to see, while at the same time they couldn't afford him being totally on the good side, because not having Vergil being Dante's antagonist would have caused too much of an uproar...
So, they ended up with an anti-climatic final boss fight.

 

[GF9000000Returns]

Well for starters the music in the first DMC3 Vergil fight was better because DmC's final boss theme "Empty" though nice and actually the best boss track in the game (not saying much since the others with the exception of the Hunter's SUUUCCCCKKKKEDDD) after the beginning part of the theme is heard the rest of the entire theme throughout the entire battle become ssoooo repetitive as the song the repeats the same 3-5 beats with nothing else but the guitar, bass, drums, and screaming vocals doing the exact same thing for the duration of the them and it can barely come off as a theme as individual theme for characters for MvC or SF games have more effort than this. At least the DMC3 1st Vergil boss theme was capable of mixing it up and creating an interesting battle theme that mixed it up, was diverse and seemed effort was put into it,sounded neat, and complemented the battle really well.

Yeah the second part of the battle of DmC sounded a bit repetitive but not the whole battle. The final part of it sounds "diverse" like you said but of course everyone has different tastes.

The tension and hype....the first boss fight with Vergil in DMC3 had more hype than the fight with DmC Vergil...much more hype and development to the point I almost believed that was the end/finale of DMC3.....I mean the fight with Vergil in DmC came straight the hell out of nowhere almost. I mean there was very small hints that Vergil was a d!ck but not enough to warrant that he and Dante would end up fighting at the end as mortal enemies but the sad fact was that him fighting Vergil was inevitable or was highly expected from the moment Vergil was shown to be in the game and even spoiled more as more trailers was shown. The final battle with Vergil wasn't very developed to at all, their relationship was though but that didn't matter as Dante was ready to kill his own brother so damn easily just because they "disagreed".

Ninja Theory's writing at its finest am I right folks?

Yeah they diagreed over taking over humanity instead of helping them. Vergil was a selfish bastard just like the original one. Though I'll agree that the battle did came out of nowhere.

 

[Dante47]

It all depends on the context of each battle.

In Devil May Cry 3, it was the end. An ultimatum. Dante's bitter feud with Vergil would be put to an end there, no matter who won or lost. The dialogue, though partially Shakespearean in it's execution, has always summed up how the two feel.
Their souls will always be at odds, as if it's fate that pits them together and eventually into swordplay. Dante's visceral emotion shown when arguing with Vergil is also a delight, seeing how he developed little before this scene. "My soul is telling me to stop you!" He screams. Vergil's retort is that it will always be this way, and that much is apparent now.
Also worth mentioning is the final shot, Vergil falling and Dante trying to save him whilst Vergil slashes at his hand, is some of the most incredible imagery I've ever seen in any video game, and leaves a great impression on me.

The music is grandiose, and feels epic for an epic final battle, but isn't exactly amazing. I felt it was a bit cliche.

In DmC, it's the beginning of a fatal and immature relationship, one that could endanger many of the humans both brothers fought for and sacrificed greatly for. Both brothers are at odds equally, and the music completely encompasses the hatred they feel for one another as they stare each other down, both knowing where this would lead, then drawing their weapons.
Dante proves his superiority in combat, and Vergil shyly departs with the words, "I loved you, brother..." and leaves, only to seek further revenge. It's tragic no compromise could be met, and also leaves us anticipating what happens next.
It's not the grand finale like Devil May Cry 3. It's the beginning of the end.

The music fits. When Dante stares down Vergil, and Vergil says "Stand... aside..." growing evermore impatient as the music builds louder and far more angrier, is some of the best examples musical timing I've both heard and had the pleasure of experiencing.

Overall, both are great, but not nearly the same, and certainly shouldn't be cross compared. They both bring some of the greatest moments in any Devil May Cry game thus far, and that's fine with me.

 

[VineBigBoss]

I agree with people saying that the two scenes are hard to compare, they are very different moments on the twins rivalry, as i said: the rivalry between Donte and Vorgil are not even constructed in all the way to the end of the game, they only makes jokes with one another with do not sounds like they are going to be serious rivals. Personaly i like much more the good ol' "Vergile" ways of doing things, as you said Dante47, that scene of he swinging Yamato at Dante's hand while falling that cliff got fixed on the minds of players, it's his way of telling: "I still care about you, brother, till next time; maybe", without saying a single word or expressing actual compassion or love. I think that Vergil is as freaking awesome character, even if he's not that "deep".

 

[crush]

It would have been perfect if DmC Vergil's summoned swords were more harder to break.
Also they should have make him more attack frequently and of course with a high damaging combo like in 3.

 

[OppressedWriter]

There is a scene in DmC when Mundus hits Dante and sends him in in free fall, and the camera cuts to Vergil, and he seems genuinely concerned, and goes to save him. I guess to me that showed that he did really care for his brother.

Nonetheless, I guess I kinda agree with the general sentiment, I personally wish the ending was more operatic, with more flashbacks of them in childhood; I really liked the insert of the childhood portrait of Dante giving his brother a hand, when he lifts vergil after nearly stabbing him to death, but it was nice none the less.

 

[Deleted member 25469]

DMC3 Vergil battle was the most epic in every department, for sure. Harder, with a more frequent and consistent exchange of attacks between the player and the boss, and a music that sets the mood for an event that is both tragic and decisive.

DmC Vergil was good, but it's certainly not the boss battle that sticks in the back of my mind as the most epic boss in all of Devil May Cry.

I have to say however, that moment in which Dante impales Vergil under Devil Trigger with the glowing eyes of fury and the long, permanent white hair? It was brilliant, and THAT is a part of the battle that I am definitely going to remember down the years. Sent chills down my spine.