What was Vergil's real story?

[moseslmpg]

that doesn't make a lick of sense. she invested quite a bit of time organizing her thoughts and typing them into that mountainous first post post hoping for feedback, i think the least you could do is give her a serious reply. i mean honestly, that wasn't even funny. if you're going to make a nonsensical reply without adding anything useful at least entertain those of us who are using our brains to form comprehensive sentences.

You should watch Star Wars. It will make sense after that. This might help too.

I was replying to Zany Blac though, but I'm sorry that my interaction with another user offended you. Please don't hesitate to add me to your ignore list.

Let me note, for posterity, that I was going to reply to Chloe, but then I saw that Lexy did so in a far more concise and clear manner than I would have, making reference to all the points that I would have made reference to, and so refrained from posting to save this thread some redundancy. So, you can file that for your report at whatever precinct of the topic police department you find yourself serving under currently.

Now, are you not entertained? Are you not amused? I believe I am

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

You should watch Star Wars. It will make sense after that. This might help too.

i suppose i have to watch star wars again to understand how that link is related as well?

I was replying to Zany Blac though, but I'm sorry that my interaction with another user offended you. Please don't hesitate to add me to your ignore list.

my mistake, it looked like a useless and nonsensical reply to a lengthy plot theory. usually people quote the person they are replying to so that people know who they are directing their speech at. i don't recall being or claiming to be offended. and i don't believe in the ignore list, it's much akin to sweeping your problems under the rug and pretending they don't exist.

Let me note, for posterity, that I was going to reply to Chloe, but then I saw that Lexy did so in a far more concise and clear manner than I would have, making reference to all the points that I would have made reference to, and so refrained from posting to save this thread some redundancy. So, you can file that for your report at whatever precinct of the topic police department you find yourself serving under currently.

i'm no stranger to sarcasm, sir. just because someone beats you to the punch doesn't render all possible on topic replies useless either. you can pick up a copy of the "how to agree or disagree when someone hits 'submit reply' before you" file at your nearest police station. i'll phone ahead so they know you're coming.

Now, are you not entertained? Are you not amused? I believe I am

i am somewhat amused. you managed to disprove a less than flattering image of yourself, and then simultaneously provide further evidence for it. you only used one SAT word in the process, too. there's definitely talent at work in that.

i can't understand why you would be amused by all this, though.

 

[Acedia]

Here is how I think Vergil's story came to be...

SO... Vergil ---.... "MORE POWER..."

That about does it.

 

[Vampi]

What's Vergil's real story? Well isn't it obvious?

Dante stole his half of the chocolate cake (remember that voice over flashback in DMC 1 after Dante defeated Nelo Angelo). Well, Vergil went insane after that and couldn't take that Dante stole his half of the chocolate cake. So he vowed that he'll have power over all chocolate cakes...IN THE WORLD!!! So that Dante may never again take his chocolate cake....Fin, or is it?

No but really Vergil's real story is that Eva died, he couldn't handle it especially since he felt so useless that he couldn't protect her so he wants power to validate himself and to protect Eva in sum way...even though she's long dead. As you can tell Vergil took Eva's death more heavily then Dante.

 

[moseslmpg]

I'm amused because you're getting so worked up about something that has nothing to do with you, and trying too hard to seem nonchalant about it. You're basically telling me that if I have a reply, even if it is redundant, I am obligated to post it. And, you just swoop in out of nowhere and insult me for having a totally innocent conversation with someone, and then continue to do so even after admitting your mistake. I don't know if you are being a topic nazi as some kind of bid to become a mod, but I don't think that is how it works. (BTW, the SAT thing thing cut really deep What is everyone's problem with my vocabulary?)

And there's no shame in using the ignore list, especially for someone like you. I've done it before myself, on another forum. It is quite nice.

Chloe: Let me apologize for cheez polluting your thread like this. I'll refrain from replying to him anymore.

 

[Meg]

^ I don't have a problem with your vocab. My vocab sucks and I learned some words from you. :lol:

 

[DreadnoughtDT]

^ I don't have a problem with your vocab. My vocab sucks and I learned some words from you. :lol:

Yeah, same here. The only "problem" Is that I don't understand you sometimes.

 

[Meg]

That's what the dictionary is for! :lol:

 

[cheezMcNASTY]

i'm being a topic nazi for one reason and one reason alone. you and most others here may not think it could be imminent, but these forums are practically at their last straw. believe it or not, by getting in your face and being a douche about the rules is in the best interest of your beloved community. trust me when i say i know how things have gone here in the past and i know that nobody wants to be forced offline. if you get offended in the process, i'm sorry. really i am.

i have no interest in becoming staff if you take me to be some kind of brown noser. i've been a member of another forum on the network since 2007, and as such know full well just how dumb you can look by trying to become a staff member here. this forum has a very bad reputation (as do the tendencies of it's community). this is one of the only other active forums in the network, and i would hate to see it go. therefore, i'm doing what no one else here seems to have the balls to do: push the rules to the extreme even if you look like a dick.

those are my only intentions, i don't have nearly enough interest to go out of my way to staff a place like this.

if you knew me on the other site, this is not how i ever act. in most cases i am the opposite of a rule nazi, mostly because i know others who care more about them are there to remind everybody - something that is quite absent here.

I'm amused because you're getting so worked up about something that has nothing to do with you, and trying too hard to seem nonchalant about it. You're basically telling me that if I have a reply, even if it is redundant, I am obligated to post it. And, you just swoop in out of nowhere and insult me for having a totally innocent conversation with someone, and then continue to do so even after admitting your mistake. I don't know if you are being a topic nazi as some kind of bid to become a mod, but I don't think that is how it works. (BTW, the SAT thing thing cut really deep What is everyone's problem with my vocabulary?)

And there's no shame in using the ignore list, especially for someone like you. I've done it before myself, on another forum. It is quite nice.

Chloe: Let me apologize for cheez polluting your thread like this. I'll refrain from replying to him anymore.

as i said, i don't believe in the ignore list. and i find it rather funny you would come at me for seeming nonchalant, as that's how your posts also read 99% of the time.

 

[Acedia]

Back onto topic without continuing to retort at each other.

BTW: That Waaambulance was very unneeded.
IF you're trying to resolve something, don't push the argument farther.

To respond to Vampi's last post, I think that's the real jist of it.
But he isn't attaining more power for Eva, but just that he has the "power" to do it, at anytime. To protect himself, and maybe a future lover...
VERGIL? LOVE? Inorite?

 

[Vampi]

Romantic Love and Vergil don't mix...PERIOD! He only has love for his family. Vergil is Asexual.

 

[Dante's Stalker]

At the end of DMC3 you can start to get the filling Dante knew what Vergil was planning. He says to Vergil "No matter how hard you try, your never going to be like father." This angered Vergil and it angered him for a reason. Vergil knew that the demon world would stay open if both amulets combined. He also knew he would have the power of Sparda. Knowing Vergil from the information that was given, he was most likely planning on destroying the Devils World. Either that or just using Sparda's power to challenge the strongest demons for his own amusement.


I think Vergil's main goal was pretty simple. Power and more of it to make his life in his eyes seem meaningful. He was selfish knowing that alot of people would die by fusing both amulets and opening the underworld releasing hell upon earth. He knew why his father sealed the world and he didn't care. I think remember at the end of one of the DMC3 mangas that there was a demon speaking to Vergil and warning him. He warned him about entering the demon world and that he would never return.

In reply to the first instance - Dante and Vergil had been separated for a year prior to the events of DMC3, and they hadn't been in touch since. A lot can happen in a year, and Dante would know nothing of it.

In reply to the second, Vergil clearly had a broad knowledge of the demonic, and perhaps the reason why he sought out Sparda's power was, as everyone keeps saying, he hated his human side. I think the reason why he hated his human side was because he felt it wasn't strong enough to fight off any onslaught that Mundus and his allies would launch on him and his family, which is what drove him to gain more power and in a sense 'fuel' his demonic side. And Vergil's character is deemed to be cutthroat and stubborn, so I don't think it was selfishness as such but more negligence on his part.

Chloe: Let me apologize for cheez polluting your thread like this. I'll refrain from replying to him anymore

No harm done, it was clearly a misunderstanding. I know where Cheez is coming from, and I know where you're coming from, and really the only issue here was a simple misunderstanding that evolved into something else.

No but really Vergil's real story is that Eva died, he couldn't handle it especially since he felt so useless that he couldn't protect her so he wants power to validate himself and to protect Eva in sum way...even though she's long dead. As you can tell Vergil took Eva's death more heavily then Dante.

I know what you're saying, and I've touched on this topic before in my first post (eg. what is the point in gaining power to 'protect' a deceased loved one? Makes no sense)

Dante stole his half of the chocolate cake (remember that voice over flashback in DMC 1 after Dante defeated Nelo Angelo). Well, Vergil went insane after that and couldn't take that Dante stole his half of the chocolate cake. So he vowed that he'll have power over all chocolate cakes...IN THE WORLD!!! So that Dante may never again take his chocolate cake....Fin, or is it?

DARN! My true theory was that it was a squabble over the last chocolate chip cookie, and Dante being the 'youngest' got his way and being a spiteful twat, ate the cookie right in front of him. It ruined Vergil forever. But cake works too

He only has love for his family.

That's what I've been saying this whole time. Why else would he do something as risky and insane as unsealing a portal to obtain his father's power, what else could possibly be strong enough and lasting enough to drive him onward? Love for his family (which would be his woman and kid), and pride in his legacy. It wouldn't simply be a means of avenging his mother's death like Dante was set to do in DMC2, or was it DMC1? Because the idea of fighting Mundus didn't occur to Vergil up until the very last moment when he realised he'd failed to achieve Sparda's power, so it wasn't a premeditated act to actually try and attack Mundus (for vengeance or whatever).

Also, (and this isn't aimed at you specifically, Vampi, this is for everyone who might be interested in posting here) my theory isn't sweating the details about whether Vergil fell in love or not. You can be intimate with another person without becoming romantically involved. I'm just linking the clues from DMC4 to what we know of DMC3 to make sense of the fact that Nero is Vergil's son. The thread title might be a bit misleading, but I made it clear in my first post that this revolves around their connection. It's also why I put it in the DMC4 board.

 

[moseslmpg]

Chloe, I think the only real difference between your idea and the position that I take (expressed by Lexy) is that you assume agents in DMC to be totally rational, while I an assuming that Capcom has made the characters (in DMC3) realistic to the point where their motivations are sometimes irrational, just like with regular people. And the evidence is good for the latter assumption, from the commentary on the game by the developers.

People do things out of love for people who don't exist anymore, that is an established fact. People do things for people who never existed, and even for ideas, against all reason. That is the essential tragedy of Vergil's character, that his intentions are good, but they are taken to irrational extremes, and this frenzy carried him to his downfall. It was not pride, or any sin, but ultimately, love for his mother, the Feminine, that caused him to fall into the depths of Hell.

 

[Dante'sgirl]

@ dearest Master Vergil...
I've read your theories and this one sticked in my mind:

"2. Again, this rings true to me but it hasn't been deliberated on. Of course losing his mother would be enough motivation, but exactly what was his goal to obtain that power? He can't protect her, she's already dead. He can't bring her back to life, either. Yet this idea always goes in hand with the first theory. Vergil wanted more power. What motivated him? His mother's death. Why did he want it? To protect his loved ones."

I read that theory of yours and I wanted to see if Vergil really wanted power to protect his loved ones so I played DMC3 once again to search some truth about this theory in Vergil's conversations with Dante....Guess what?? Your theory is true...you convinced me. Vergil says with Dante "Without power you cannot protect anything" and this rings so many bells...your theory fits so well here.

Thx for the this clarification...now im beginning to like Vergil a little more

 

[Dante's Stalker]

@Dante'sgirl - I'm glad you (and a lot of others)see that I'm not grasping at thin air with my theory. It's all there, you just need to look at it from Capcom's angle. ^_^

Chloe, I think the only real difference between your idea and the position that I take (expressed by Lexy) is that you assume agents in DMC to be totally rational, while I an assuming that Capcom has made the characters (in DMC3) realistic to the point where their motivations are sometimes irrational, just like with regular people. And the evidence is good for the latter assumption, from the commentary on the game by the developers.

People do things out of love for people who don't exist anymore, that is an established fact. People do things for people who never existed, and even for ideas, against all reason. That is the essential tragedy of Vergil's character, that his intentions are good, but they are taken to irrational extremes, and this frenzy carried him to his downfall. It was not pride, or any sin, but ultimately, love for his mother, the Feminine, that caused him to fall into the depths of Hell.

Okayyy....after all that, I've got two questions for you, both that can be answered in your response to this first question (I won't even ask the second one because it'll be rhetorical, depending on your answer) so, let me ask you this: Are you for or against the idea of Nero being Vergil's son?

 

[Vergil&Dante]

I think that Nero is Vergil's son, since they both says "I NEED MORE POWER".
Nero needed it because so he can protect Kyrie, and maybe thats the same reason for Vergil that wanted more power to protect Nero's mother and didnt care about opening the hellsgate..

 

[Vergil&Dante]

And maybe Vergil's storyline will be in DmC reboot!??

 

[heatlancer]

the whole wanting to protect his family is aight an all, but he did willingly decide to stay locked up in the demon world

i always thought of his thirst for power as a way for him getting revenge on mundus

 

[Richtofen]

@Master Vergil-I read your theories and they are exactly how I feel about Vergil. Yours are more thought out...and in better words than I could ever use to explain in detail

Anyways...I see Vergil as the tragic figure. Tragic figures usually have a motivation to go by, in Vergil's case-power. It's easier to blame his weakness on his human counterpart for his lack of power than to actually place the blame on himself as a whole. He's the eldest, and to him it's the eldest child's job to protect the family-which he failed. His honour, his pride as Sparda's son was tarnished the night he failed to protect Eva. Which is why I also believe the drive for power is to 'redeem' himself for what he couldn't do as a child.

In DMC 3, Vergil didn't care about opening the gate to demonic realm, Arkham just pushed Vergil that little extra by mentioning the Temen-ni-gru was sealed by his father, and that his powers lay latent within. He wants to achieve great power no matter the cost, in the memory of his deceased mother. "Might controls everything. And without strength, you cannot protect anything. Let alone yourself." This quote says so much about Vergil in so little words. It shows the guilt that he failed to protect his mother, and it shows he also keeps her memory close to him. Vergil's intentions were good, but for all the wrong reasons.

 

[Vergil&Dante]

As for why Nero was orphaned - it could be a number of reasons. His mother might have been killed, the Order could have kidnapped him, or, the theory I'm running with as the most plausible, she gave him up for adoption when Vergil didn't come back. Vergil was young and she had to be quite young as well, and what girl that young can really be brave enough to raise a baby all by herself? If you add the option that she might have been aware of who and what Vergil was, it would have doubled her fear and given her even more reason to give Nero away. If you go on the assumption that the Order has existed for a good long time, it might have been Vergil's backup plan that she go to Fortuna because the citizens were well protected by the Knights and it wouldn't seem suspicious if a sudden demon attack was launched upon the city (to target her and Nero) because the Order was accustomed to and efficient at fending off demon attacks.

But where did the Order found Vergil's yamato, and how and why it was broken???