Thoughts on Vergil after seeing VD.
- Thread starter Romy
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FuN Batman
Member
When did I post a meme in the comment you quoted? Go ahead, show me that meme you're talking about.
... Oh whats that? THERE ISN'T ONE? Yeah. I kind of knew that. Now that that's over.. where was I? ... ehheheheheh...
Up to the same old bullshit again Macabre? Instead of straw manning my arguments, how about you refute one for a change? Was I arguing about whether the game was good or was I arguing about Dante's character? I'm sure you know that was a bullshit quote. Macabre, I love you despite your calling me out. Don't ruin a good thing.
Let me make this clear. It WAS NOT my opinion, so get over the notion that I would even agree with you on that.
Original Dante, was NOT a dic... Oops!!!
I better correct my language here before Macabre has another conniption fit like last time! Allow me to rephrase that previous slip up of an almost naughty word that might have traumatized the likes of Alchy and Macabre for life. Common Macabre, you know I'm only teasing you. Alchy on the other hand... ohhh hooo Alchy. What I would love to say to that guy.
(PS- I'm going to start putting up more memes just for you Macabre because I know you love them so much!)
DON'T YOU MACABRE?! YOU DO DON'T YOU!!!?!!
Dante was not a penis (as if that's any better, don't kid yourself kiddies, there's no such thing as "bad words") or a douche bag for no reason like Donte in DmC was. If you played the games, or even simply watched the video evidence I showed, ANYONE can see this as a fact. He goes out of his way and sometimes even disregards his own well being, allowing himself to be shot by lady MULTIPLE times for example. Winter and a few others (lost track of who exactly has been agreeing with this shiznit) made claims that old Dante was the same as the new Dante so I responded in kind to call this nonsense out for what it was.
You can argue about ANYTHING else. Go ahead and start a new debate with me about whether the game itself is a sh1t reboot or not. I have statistics and facts on my side regardless. However, THAT previously mentioned VERY SIMPLE point is the core of my argument and all I was trying to prove. Sure, go ahead and say I'm full of opinions and memes.
Ignore my flipping argument. I don't care.
THE ARGUMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTmentment u suck ....I'm only joking calm down. . :
It's commonly thought that any character usually has the potential to be interesting as this is mostly dependent on the writer. (That's not necessarily what I was disputing.) The only time a writer is really restricted is when a character has been popular for a long time (LIKE DANTE) and has a devoted fan base. It's much harder to spin a character when they fit inside the confines of their own mythos. With that being said, we all know this is a reboot so a completely fresh variation of Dante is understandable. However, in comparison of the two, you can obviously see the faults and differences of said characters as plain as day.
A character who blatantly insults others, is rude for no reason, essentially a delinquent, is like the old Dante? You're telling me that a character who has shallow dialog like "f@ck you" instead of any real capability for any witty retorts or conversation, excluding the occasional "hey fat ass who invited you?" is similar or as well written as Dante, and a GOOD character?! You're telling me that a character who, all around acts like a childish hipster, is the same as the old Dante? I won't even mention how Vergil has become a even more prominent polar opposite character, completely devoid of ANY honor or pride with comments like "I've got the bigger dick" or doing sh1t like shooting that baby. (I said I wouldn't mention it but I kind of just did huh?)
Did you notice how I added in the "good character and "as well written" part btw? Ignore that. You and I both know it's impossible to define whether a character is good or not. ..... UNLESS HE BOMBS THE SALES OF HIS DEBUTE GAME! HAHHAHAHAAHHAAHHA! He is INDEED a bad, poorly written character and don't even get me started on the dialog Macabre. Please just don't even go there for both our sakes. I've only dipped into that shiznat topic.
You may want to say, "Well, prove he's a bad character because someone might actually find that personality to be what makes a good character." Well Macabre, I'm a man of statistics as I've said in the past, so I'll address you to a very simple notion. THE GAME FAILED! HAHAHAHAHAHAH! It's selling 8k units on the xbox on WEEK 4! WEEK HOLY COW 4! BAHAHAHAHAHAH! It's not even projected to hit 800k by week 10 with combined sales!
I've provided numerous examples in regards to their characters faults and differences so I'm borderline ready to concede just out of spite if anyone continues to argue without addressing a single one of them. If you think it's a great idea to make one of the Jersey Shore kids the new Dante, I don't know what else to say. In which case, I concede in complete and utter shame to be apart of the same species as such a person.
(Btw in case you didn't realize I put those memes there are purpose after I said I didn't post memes. GET OFF MY DlCK!)
Winterfrost
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
3/10, considered cancer and a terrible troll.
Please try harder.
Please try harder.
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
The lowest kind: the reddit troll. At least /v/ rusemen make an effort.
I'll just take a reply copy of that post FB, just in case some vagabond decides to edit out anything for any reason.
When did I post a meme in the comment you quoted? Go ahead, show me that meme you're talking about.
... Oh whats that? THERE ISN'T ONE? Yeah. I kind of knew that. Now that that's over.. where was I? ... ehheheheheh...
Up to the same old bullshit again Macabre? Instead of straw manning my arguments, how about you refute one for a change? Was I arguing about whether the game was good or was I arguing about Dante's character? I'm sure you know that was a bullshit quote. Macabre, I love you despite your calling me out. Don't ruin a good thing.
Let me make this clear. It WAS NOT my opinion, so get over the notion that I would even agree with you on that.
Original Dante, was NOT a dic... Oops!!!
I better correct my language here before Macabre has another conniption fit like last time! Allow me to rephrase that previous slip up of an almost naughty word that might have traumatized the likes of Alchy and Macabre for life. Common Macabre, you know I'm only teasing you. Alchy on the other hand... ohhh hooo Alchy. What I would love to say to that guy.
(PS- I'm going to start putting up more memes just for you Macabre because I know you love them so much!)
DON'T YOU MACABRE?! YOU DO DON'T YOU!!!?!!
Dante was not a penis (as if that's any better, don't kid yourself kiddies, there's no such thing as "bad words") or a douche bag for no reason like Donte in DmC was. If you played the games, or even simply watched the video evidence I showed, ANYONE can see this as a fact. He goes out of his way and sometimes even disregards his own well being, allowing himself to be shot by lady MULTIPLE times for example. Winter and a few others (lost track of who exactly has been agreeing with this shiznit) made claims that old Dante was the same as the new Dante so I responded in kind to call this nonsense out for what it was.
You can argue about ANYTHING else. Go ahead and start a new debate with me about whether the game itself is a sh1t reboot or not. I have statistics and facts on my side regardless. However, THAT previously mentioned VERY SIMPLE point is the core of my argument and all I was trying to prove. Sure, go ahead and say I'm full of opinions and memes.
Ignore my flipping argument. I don't care.
THE ARGUMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTMENTmentment u suck ....I'm only joking calm down. . :
It's commonly thought that any character usually has the potential to be interesting as this is mostly dependent on the writer. (That's not necessarily what I was disputing.) The only time a writer is really restricted is when a character has been popular for a long time (LIKE DANTE) and has a devoted fan base. It's much harder to spin a character when they fit inside the confines of their own mythos. With that being said, we all know this is a reboot so a completely fresh variation of Dante is understandable. However, in comparison of the two, you can obviously see the faults and differences of said characters as plain as day.
A character who blatantly insults others, is rude for no reason, essentially a delinquent, is like the old Dante? You're telling me that a character who has shallow dialog like "f@ck you" instead of any real capability for any witty retorts or conversation, excluding the occasional "hey fat ass who invited you?" is similar or as well written as Dante, and a GOOD character?! You're telling me that a character who, all around acts like a childish hipster, is the same as the old Dante? I won't even mention how Vergil has become a even more prominent polar opposite character, completely devoid of ANY honor or pride with comments like "I've got the bigger ****" or doing sh1t like shooting that baby. (I said I wouldn't mention it but I kind of just did huh?)
Did you notice how I added in the "good character and "as well written" part btw? Ignore that. You and I both know it's impossible to define whether a character is good or not. ..... UNLESS HE BOMBS THE SALES OF HIS DEBUTE GAME! HAHHAHAHAAHHAAHHA! He is INDEED a bad, poorly written character and don't even get me started on the dialog Macabre. Please just don't even go there for both our sakes. I've only dipped into that shiznat topic.
You may want to say, "Well, prove he's a bad character because someone might actually find that personality to be what makes a good character." Well Macabre, I'm a man of statistics as I've said in the past, so I'll address you to a very simple notion. THE GAME FAILED! HAHAHAHAHAHAH! It's selling 8k units on the xbox on WEEK 4! WEEK HOLY COW 4! BAHAHAHAHAHAH! It's not even projected to hit 800k by week 10 with combined sales!
I've provided numerous examples in regards to their characters faults and differences so I'm borderline ready to concede just out of spite if anyone continues to argue without addressing a single one of them. If you think it's a great idea to make one of the Jersey Shore kids the new Dante, I don't know what else to say. In which case, I concede in complete and utter shame to be apart of the same species as such a person.
(Btw in case you didn't realize I put those memes there are purpose after I said I didn't post memes. GET OFF MY DlCK!)
Ah, lovely. Keep it coming, it nourishes me.
Actually that's kind of debatable. As Alex Garland pointed out on the subject of Enslaved, Sun Wukong might have been a manic troublemaker who caused mayhem for his own amusement, but he did have redeeming qualities. For example, after securing immortality for himself he then wiped the names of every monkey he knew out of the Book Of Life and Death, purely because he wanted to share his gift with those he loved. He fights the Gods, but it's mostly because they're an ineffectual tyrannical bureaucracy who refused to give him the respect he rightly deserves. He's less of an overt "jerk", and more of a parable of how skill and ambition are meaningless in the face of Enlightenment.
The misunderstanding of what Sun Wukong, and Journey to the West as a whole is about was one of my biggest problems with Enslaved. Then there's the problems with characterisation that Tameem had while writing it, and Mr Garland has subsequently shed light on:
Caution, a little harsh language.
http://www.edge-online.com/features/interview-alex-garland-part-two/
Check the part that involves "face kicking". I think it rather nicely illustrates Mr Antonaides's approach to characterisation.
FuN Batman
Member
So that's it eh Macabre? No rebuttal? Yeah, I thought so. Btw, I wasn't even trolling and I don't even use reddit. You on the other hand seem to have a grudge with that site as you were probably laughed out of more threads than even I can imagine. How would I be trolling with a post that in depth?
I'm disappointed in you honestly. Take a picture of my post because it'll last longer as you lament your own failure to offer anything intelligible in return.
What made you think that?
I'm not going to argue about what he became at the end of the series. There's no way to prove that he's still not a douche bag as he has yet to demonstrate such a thin. Also, since the game failed, I strongly doubt they'll be making a sequel with him anyways. I'm simply talking about the Donte that WAS and IS as of DmC: Devil May Cry. He's a douche bag, has terrible dialog and horrible one liners usually involving some type of shallow obscenity as his core.
Oh god please don't start comparing other characters from completely different backgrounds and mind sets to DmC Donte.
omfg.. I just want to die after hearing this. First off... where do I begin? OMFG! Beer doesn't make you a bad person! Don't bring beer into this! Beer didn't do anything bad to you!
You keep saying the same old thing over and over again. DMC3 Dante was NOT a douche bag and he CERTAINLY wasn't hedonistic otherwise he wouldn't have wanted to fight in the first place. In fact, I would go as far as to the he's the opposite and quite the masochist in terms of the punishment he's willing to take. He literally lets himself be impaled only to make it seem fun like the cocky bastard he is. DMC3 was not about the heroes journey. It was about settling family matters. The whole story centers on the dysfunctional relationship between Dante and Vergil.
Oh god what are you say?!?! GUTS WAS CRUEL AND COLD?! WHAT ARE YOU SAYING?! STAHP! STAHP IT!
You couldn't be more wrong. Guts was a quiet little boy who only wanted a father figure and fought for Gambino to be acknowledged. He was a fierce fighter and the most complex personality in the story but he was never cruel. He fought to hone his abilities and nothing more. Guts became extremely disciplined later on in the series. I sure as hell hope you're not talking about the noncanon anime. I've read, literally, all 309 chapters FIVE TIMES! LITERALLY. He is nothing like Dante. Oh .. I think I'm going to throw up.. Someone get me a bucket!
Guy Gardner? Everyone hates that guy. He got knocked the **** out by Batman.
Inuyasha & Yuskue... you just named the gayest shiznit I've ever heard in my life.
Spike Spiegal? Now you're just being a troll.
Ban Midou?! "starts off as a selfish, sneaky, women groping, ..." STAHP! Just... stahp.. Don't even .. just stahp..
Han Solo?!! ARE YOU FREAKING SERIOUS RIGHT NOW? You're going to tell me DmC Donte is like HAN SOLO?!
Dean from Supernatural?!?! Wtf are you talking about? Cloud Strife!!?!?!? ARE YOU FING KIDDING ME?
THE LAST AIR BENDER?!
ARE YOU OUT OF YOUR MIND!!!!??
Winterfrost
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
This is hilarious. Keep going Batmun.
FuN Batman
Member
Did you even read what I wrote? Honestly. Be honest. SURIUS!
Winterfrost
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
Because it's ironic! That's why it's funny <3
I mean look at that sig, didn't read, LOL. You expect me to read it all when you have that? honestly when I scroll down and see that it reminds me how much of an I.Q. drop I get when I read those posts.
unless you are trolling about that, then to make you happy I'll raise your score...3.5/10
TerrorA
Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
[quote="FuN Batman, post: 452676, member: 25041!
You couldn't be more wrong. Guts was a quiet little boy who only wanted a father figure and fought for Gambino to be acknowledged. He was a fierce fighter and the most complex personality in the story but he was never cruel. He fought to hone his abilities and nothing more. Guts became extremely disciplined later on in the series and I sure as **** hope you're not talking about the noncanon anime.
[/quote]
Couple questions. If guts wasn't violent, Cold and cruel. what was the Black Swordsman and Retribution arcs about? And what does Hellhound represent?
2. The 26 episode anime is based on the golden age arc, and everything that happened in the anime, happened in the Manga. Kentaro Muira was on staff, and they used some of the manga's pages as storyboards. How is it not canon
3.Um, hate to inform you, but there have been 332 chapters of Berserk for a while. Chapter 332 came out two months ago, and chapter 328-331 came out last year. When'd you stop reading
4. If DMC3 wasn't about Dante's journey to becoming the hero he was in 1, why was it called "Dante's awakening?" And why did it show Dante slowly transforming from a cocky party animal into the fun-loving, and stil serious, demon slayer from 1?
5. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks DMC3 Dante was a asshole. From the DevilMayCry Tvtropes page under Flanderization: The later games just make him a Jerkass.
6: Dante in three seems to live in the moment, not caring about tomorrow. A hedonist is described as " a desire to be happy and experience various kinds of pleasure." DMC3 Dante did that with (off-screen) drinking and (on-screen) fighting. DmC Dante does the same with (on-screen) drinking, fighting and (off-screen) sex. Until they both matured and became what they were meant to be. They even have similar identity crisis, although the original Dante downplayed it with taunting and snark. Compare these two lines.
DMC3:
"(when being asked if he was human) Who knows? I'm not even sure myself."
DmC:
"I don't know what I am anymore"
You couldn't be more wrong. Guts was a quiet little boy who only wanted a father figure and fought for Gambino to be acknowledged. He was a fierce fighter and the most complex personality in the story but he was never cruel. He fought to hone his abilities and nothing more. Guts became extremely disciplined later on in the series and I sure as **** hope you're not talking about the noncanon anime.
[/quote]
Couple questions. If guts wasn't violent, Cold and cruel. what was the Black Swordsman and Retribution arcs about? And what does Hellhound represent?
2. The 26 episode anime is based on the golden age arc, and everything that happened in the anime, happened in the Manga. Kentaro Muira was on staff, and they used some of the manga's pages as storyboards. How is it not canon
3.Um, hate to inform you, but there have been 332 chapters of Berserk for a while. Chapter 332 came out two months ago, and chapter 328-331 came out last year. When'd you stop reading
4. If DMC3 wasn't about Dante's journey to becoming the hero he was in 1, why was it called "Dante's awakening?" And why did it show Dante slowly transforming from a cocky party animal into the fun-loving, and stil serious, demon slayer from 1?
5. I'm not the only person in the world who thinks DMC3 Dante was a asshole. From the DevilMayCry Tvtropes page under Flanderization: The later games just make him a Jerkass.
6: Dante in three seems to live in the moment, not caring about tomorrow. A hedonist is described as " a desire to be happy and experience various kinds of pleasure." DMC3 Dante did that with (off-screen) drinking and (on-screen) fighting. DmC Dante does the same with (on-screen) drinking, fighting and (off-screen) sex. Until they both matured and became what they were meant to be. They even have similar identity crisis, although the original Dante downplayed it with taunting and snark. Compare these two lines.
DMC3:
"(when being asked if he was human) Who knows? I'm not even sure myself."
DmC:
"I don't know what I am anymore"
FuN Batman
Member
Oh lol. ... Touché good sir. I'll accept that.
Still considered a concession in my opinion but at least you were honest! o_- (Hidden underneath all my jokes/sarcasm I did have a few decent points I'd like to think. Please feel free to pick them out and hammer them without scrutiny.)
Winterfrost
Shadow-of-Sundered-Star
That's not my job. I'm the sidelines kind of guy.
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
The difference lies in execution. Consider the beginning of each game: DmC starts out with us seeing New Dante in a drunken haze, surrounded by sleaze and debauchery. He lashes out violently at the bar tender (Without getting accosted by the bouncers), drinks heavily and takes away two strippers to have meaningless sex with. In retrospect it shows that New Dante likes living the hedonistic lifestyle to take his mind off his personal torment, but as this is the first we see of him it makes him seem shallow. We see him in the midst of a chaotic event where innocent bystanders are being harmed by the Ferris wheel spinning out of control, and he doesn't seem even slightly concerned about anyone but himself. He keeps a gun trained on a defenceless woman's head for longer than you would think necessary, showing that he's mistrustful, but as a first impression it makes him seem...well, evil.
Classic Dante in 3 on the other hand is introduced to us by having him relax after taking a shower, demonstrating that he takes care of himself physically, then kicks his chair into place for his own amusement as he takes a call with a flourish, showing us that he likes doing things stylishly because it amuses him. Even though there are bottles on the floor and his shop is in a mess, we're seeing him in a good light that demonstrates his character quirks without making him seem disgusting. He's flippant and rude to his visitor, showing us that he's obnoxious, but then again it's Arkham that he's treating this way, who is not only the villain of the piece but is currently acting like a creepy prick.
Even though the characters are similar, Classic Dante is being represented to us in such a way makes him more sympathetic, only alluding to his less redeeming features rather than putting them in centre focus. It makes us identify more with him and want to find out his secrets. DmC Dante seems like...well, a twat, and that's never a good thing for the player's avatar because it seems like a veiled insult to the player on the subconscious level.
First impressions are very important.
Roxas
Well-known Member
I felt deeply disappointed by how it was handled. Vergil doesn't turn evil on his own, he simply lets his evilself free. Kinda like how I felt in X-Men The Last Stand regarding Jean Grey/Phoenix. Stupid reason for the character to turn evil, just for the sake of having a villain(granted that X-Men already had Magneto).
Really, if you're going to have this dark side coming out, do it well. See Spider-Man Web of Shadows' evil endings. There are only two, minor changes(one has Symbiote Blackcat, the other doesn't) and it's a good example of protagonist-goes-evil done right. But that's just my opinion anyway.
Really, if you're going to have this dark side coming out, do it well. See Spider-Man Web of Shadows' evil endings. There are only two, minor changes(one has Symbiote Blackcat, the other doesn't) and it's a good example of protagonist-goes-evil done right. But that's just my opinion anyway.
TerrorA
Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
That is a very good point. I just always considered the opening to DmC like the first chapter of Berserk, where our introduction to Guts (not counting the apostle he banged and then blew away) was him entering a bar, finding four men who worked for the Snake Baron, and murdering all but one of them, who he tortures by grinding his boot into a throwing knife he had hit the man with. It made you think "This is our hero!? What made him this way?" and continue reading to figure out his past, and his problems.
Macabre
Your Friend and Mine
That's a good comparison, but there are a few factors which separate them.
For one thing, Guts pays the bartender before starting trouble and even apologises in advance(Kind of an amusing inversion of how Han Solo paid off the bartender after murdering Greedo). He then kills three of the goons outright, but the framing of the scene makes it appear that he is protecting the Elf they are torturing, making it seem that he's doing this out of altruism. He tortures one goon and only horizontally bisects the last because he tried to stab Guts in the back, making him seem merciful. The whole set up of the scene fills us with questions about the character, but most compelling is the morality he's operating under. How terrible is this man willing to be to achieve his mission?
By comparison, New Dante's actions seem to be entirely selfishly motivated...and they ultimately turn out to be exactly that. There's no nuance to his character beyond "He has a troubled past. You won't be able to witness it in gameplay, but it happened. Please see his reprehensible behaviour as really cool."
Then there's the fact that we aren't Guts. He isn't our avatar in the world and even perhaps not our perspective character either, seeing as our point of view often passes through the minds of other cast members. We are vicariously observing the terrible things he does, acting as a fly on the wall when he launches into irredeemable acts of cruelty and evil in pursuit of a higher cause.
View attachment 481
New Dante is, unfortunately, us. We are him while we exist in the game world, controlling his every motion through the world. When he acts selfishly or needlessly maliciously when we wouldn't, it disconnects us from him and makes it harder to care about him. This isn't to say it's impossible to pull off a anti-hero in games which prevent you from controlling the protagonists actions in cutscenes, but it takes much more careful story telling than what DmC presents us with. There's a reason why silent protagonists were such a popular trope in gaming: apart from saving memory space, it also makes it easier for the player to impose their personality on the character, and imagine that they are their avatar purely because he has no personality to conflict with our own point of view.
The other reason why the two are different is that, of course, New Dante has a precedent behind him. Like it or not, as long as the game is called Devil May Cry and the character is called Dante, people will find it impossible to reconcile just how irredeemably unpleasant he is in those first few scenes, and it will bother them for the rest of the game. If he wasn't called Dante, people could have accepted him that much more easily.
FuN Batman
Member
Okay so here are my edits. These aren't in order but I should answer all your questions.
I actually read the recent chapters a few days ago. (The one where they kill the sea monster and whatnot.) I forgot how many chapters there were but I remember reading the story multiple times because it's so ridiculous.
I also read a lot of Vagabond and Vinland Saga but that's neither here nor there.
DMC3's name was simply made to suggest it was the first of the series. Dante in DMC4 was even more of a party animal, and that's simply a lack of consistency that was warranted/needed as the game developed it's characters. Dante started off a party animal, although slightly serious. DMC3 was the supposed to be the youngest, but they simply wanted to exploit that fun attitude since it was so popular. Likewise with DMC4 and DMC4 was the oldest incarnation. Overall, if you want to talk about who was more serious you're better off sticking to DMC1 & 2.
Think of it this way. In DMC1 and 2, they were somewhat serious. In DMC3 & 4 he was fun and cocky. He still always had that essence of cockyness and fun about him even in DMC1 and DMC2, but it was expanded upon when they made DMC3 & 4. Of course it doesn't make any sense canonwise in it's consistency. You can't link them all honestly.
The anime for Berserk is not canon because the ending does not coincide with the manga. A LOT of things happened that are very important in the manga, that did not happen in the anime. The opening of the anime with the scene of the Bar and Guts, having already lost his arm, is also not canon if I remember correctly. That was a presketch that was included in a special addition of the manga, but the original Manga Chapters did not include that area.
It's confusing but I could reread that part to reiterate and provide scans if I'm given some time.
Guts was out for revenge against a very specific individual. How can Guts be cruel at his core if Fairies followed him? The entire point of the series is that Guts is a force of good in a world gone bad. You can be a very angry, raging good guy. Was Asura from Asura's Wrath cruel just because he got so ****ed off and beat the **** out of people? In the end he only wanted to protect those that were close to him, just like Guts.
Guts has the Brand on him. No matter where he goes, he won't find peace until he kills Griffith and Gods Hand. Killing Demons and thugs who were borderline raping a girl in a bar doesn't make him cold and cruel. If you read into the recent chapters he emphasizes these traits of kindness even more. He simply has his own demons to battle, namely the Berserker Armor, and his hatred for what Griffith did.
Dante was hunting demons and had his own business for it. His hobbies outside of that don't really have a hold in regards to his personal character. I'll reply to your other questions in a minute. I need a bite to eat.
TerrorA
Don't mess with a Mage, bitch.
Um...I was talking about the whole "only the strong deserve to live" line, letting half a village die in the first chapter to get a shot at the Count, torturing the Count to death in front of his daughter, refusing to save the old man the Count killed, kicking him, countless acts.
The Beast itself was born from the darkness in Guts, the manga even stating that "during his days as the black swordsman, the two were one" There's a reason the title of the chapter where he gets his **** together is "Conviction"
Guts is a hero, a dark hero, but a hero. The manga itself goes out of it's way, including making his inner darkness manifest itself, to show that he's just a step away from becoming the monsters he fights. Ignoring the darker parts of his past completely negates what he's doing now. It's because of his darker moments that he's such an interesting character.
The Beast itself was born from the darkness in Guts, the manga even stating that "during his days as the black swordsman, the two were one" There's a reason the title of the chapter where he gets his **** together is "Conviction"
Guts is a hero, a dark hero, but a hero. The manga itself goes out of it's way, including making his inner darkness manifest itself, to show that he's just a step away from becoming the monsters he fights. Ignoring the darker parts of his past completely negates what he's doing now. It's because of his darker moments that he's such an interesting character.
FuN Batman
Member
That didn't happen that way in the manga.
The Berserk armor is the only reason this is even being brought out. Guts at his core was never cruel or vindictive. Fairies only follow and protect people with a good heart.
Yes, he's the anti hero. Probably the best (edit: not most famous) ever made imo.
But you need to remember that he's fighting against an even darker enemy, and he's only defending himself and his loved ones. What would you do? He has no options left. Obviously he'll have inner demons inside after the **** he's seen.
Trust me, read the manga, it's disgusting but brilliant.
FuN Batman
Member
Well just as long as you appreciate my humor, it's all good.
Sarcasm and irony are two things Macabre hate, so I've grown very fond of them.